Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Nurse Threatens Lawsuit Over Quarantine; President Obama Meets With Ebola Health Care Workers; Western Countries on Edge; Did the Russians Hack the White House?

Aired October 29, 2014 - 16:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

You were just watching a self-described frustrated President Obama. He was speaking after wrapping up a meeting with various health care workers who have either traveled to the Ebola hot zone in West Africa or are headed there to fight the outbreak.

And while he continues to insist there is no need for a strict quarantine once these workers return to the United States, some wonder, then, why is there a different set of rules being put in place for members of the military who are returning from the region, even though they won't be dealing directly with patients?

Let's go now to CNN's senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta. He is live at the White House.

Jim, first of all, is it true that some of the health care workers that were standing behind President Obama are still -- the ones who are back from the hot zone, they're still within that 21-day window?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is in the room with the president, he is going to be talking to some of these doctors who have returned from West Africa in a few moments, he confirmed this. I also confirmed this from a White House official that some of the health care workers who were in that president just a few moments ago are within this 21- day monitoring period, but a White House official cautions, Jake, that they are monitoring their symptoms and, at this point, they are not symptomatic.

And, so in the words of this White House official, these brave heroes don't pose any sort of a danger to the president or anybody here at the White House, including the rest of us.

But what the president is trying to do, Jake, and he's been doing this for several weeks now, is meet with and get together with as many health care workers who have treated Ebola patients or have been Ebola patients themselves. And that's why you saw Dr. Kent Brantly introducing the president.

He's been on both sides of that equation. And what the White House is trying to do is remove the stigma that some of these health care workers are experiencing after returning from the Ebola hot zone. And they believe that by removing that stigma, they might be able to encourage some of these states to loosen some of their tougher quarantine rules, because really they feel like that is counterproductive, that that might discourage these health care workers from going over to West Africa.

And so that's why you heard the president say during his remarks, Jake -- and you just said it -- say that he's frustrated by a lot of this fear out there. He's saying, once again, that right now there is only one person in the United States dealing with Ebola right now. That's the doctor in New York. The others who have been treated are now on their own.

And so the president wants people to remember that and he's frustrated that people are not focusing on that at this point, Jake.

TAPPER: Not just frustrated. He seemed a little angry.

ACOSTA: He did.

TAPPER: I guess the point President Obama is trying to make is that the way to stop this outbreak is stop it in West Africa. The only way to stop it in West Africa is to have health care workers from this country and others go there, work on the problem, then be able to come back here.

He described the reaction that he's seen as hiding under the sheets. But, Jim, I have to ask you, there is this disconnect between what President Obama is saying and what the military is doing. They have said they're going to be quarantining members of the military after they return from West Africa. Has the White House commented on this disconnect?

ACOSTA: That's right.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced this earlier today, a 21-day quarantine period for soldiers returning from West Africa. And the White House was asked about this. This went around yesterday as well, because we knew that this was coming.

And what White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said in the briefing today that in some cases, they are going to have different ways of dealing with Ebola in this country. The CDC has put out guidelines for dealing with health care workers, but the military, according to White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest and various administration officials I have talked to, say a different standard applies for the military, because there are such a large number of soldiers returning from West Africa.

For efficiency reasons, they are going to have a different standard and they're going to have different guidelines for those soldiers coming back. They're underlining that they do appreciate their service, but they feel like they have to treat the soldiers differently, Jake.

TAPPER: And they also live in much closer quarters and diseases can spread much quicker in the military.

ACOSTA: That's true.

TAPPER: Jim Acosta at the White House, thank you so much.

Forget all the talk you have heard about personal protective gear, because at least for one nurse, the gloves are off in less than 24 hours. Kaci Hickox, that nurse who risked her life fighting the Ebola outbreak in West Africa, and then threatened to sue New Jersey Governor Chris Christie over her mandatory quarantine in that tent outside a Newark, New Jersey, hospital, she's about to go to battle against her home state of Maine.

With state police cruisers surrounding the home where Hickox says she is being held against her will, the Doctors Without Borders nurse defiantly said she's prepared to ignore orders for a 21-day home quarantine by Maine. She told NBC's "Today Show" if the restrictions against her not lifted by tomorrow morning, she is taking legal action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KACI HICKOX, NURSE: I don't plan on sticking to the guidelines. I remain appalled by these home quarantine policies that have been forced upon me, even though I am in perfectly good health and feeling strong and have been this entire time completely symptom-free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Her argument is that it is against science to push her and make her self-quarantine.

Hickox was put in isolation when she arrived in New Jersey's Newark Airport Friday after a forehead scanner showed that she had an elevated temperature. She said that the reading was inaccurate.

After a heated war of words with the governor of New Jersey, Mr. Chris Christie, over the state's newly imposed quarantine policy, the nurse was allowed to her home state with some conditions.

And her case has thrust into the spotlight, I think it's fair to call them inconsistencies and confusion over the various quarantine rules for health care workers returning from the Ebola hot zones state by state.

Here with me to talk about this are Gavin Macgregor-Skinner. He's assistant professor of public health preparedness for disasters and terrorist emergencies for Penn State, along with CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff, let start with you.

Is there any legal precedent that would determine whether Maine has the right to force this nurse to stay in her home for 21 days?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Maine has a law, like all states have laws, that say people with contagious diseases can be forced into quarantine.

The legal question, perhaps for a judge, maybe as soon as tomorrow, is whether her condition, in perfectly good health, without symptoms, counts as something that is covered by that law.

TAPPER: Right.

TOOBIN: And that's a hard legal question, because judges usually defer to public health authorities about their sense of risk.

But, here, every scientific expert says that people without symptoms are not contagious. So I think this is going to be a very hard legal problem, unless her lawyers and the state of Maine can work out some sort of compromise.

TAPPER: Gavin, is there any reason that she should be stuck in that home?

DR. GAVIN MACGREGOR-SKINNER, PENN STATE UNIVERSITY: No, Jake.

We should go back to actually those CDC guidelines that are published on the CDC Web site freely available for every American citizen. On those guidelines, it talks about controlled movement. I have worked with highly infectious diseases now for over 20 years. Every disease, every incident that we have had, every outbreak, all -- everyone on my team comes back to this country and we practice what's called controlled movement, no commercial transport, no public transport, stay away from large crowds, but we don't get locked in a room in the house.

TAPPER: Do you think, Gavin, that there's anything that the Obama administration could have done or still could do to help what we see as a patchwork of different rules and different states and a lot of confusion and a lot of fear?

MACGREGOR-SKINNER: Jake, it's a really good question.

Over the last two weeks, we have seen lack of coordination, lack of collaboration, lack of a communication plan, lack of a national training program to get hospitals to be ready.

And so what we have experienced from other countries that have had highly infectious diseases -- and bird flu is a really good one -- other countries have said, when you get this out-of-control situation, bring all of the governors in. Let's bring all of the governors of the U.S. states into Washington, D.C., one day. We talk about what do you need and then we come up with a national communication plan and a national training program, and we get everyone on the same page.

TOOBIN: But one thing that needs to be clear here is the reason the CDC issued guidelines, not mandatory orders, is that there is no federal quarantine law.

This is an area of law that states are in control of. So the federal government can't tell Maine to have one quarantine policy. They can only -- they can only say, we think these are appropriate. But, you know, this is, like everything else, a deeply political matter. You have governors like Governor LePage in a tight reelection campaign in Maine.

You have Chris Christie in New Jersey basically hostile to the president. They don't want to be told what to do by the federal government. So politics plays a role here too.

TAPPER: Right. Of course, most of the states doing this, I think, have Democratic governors at this point, although LePage and Christie have perhaps the most prominent roles because of this nurse.

TOOBIN: Right.

TAPPER: Jeffrey Toobin, Gavin Macgregor-Skinner, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Turning now to our world lead, shocking new video described as sickening and absolutely disgusting by one official, kids as young as 6 years old spewing hate, promising to die in the name of Islam -- that story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Our world lead now -- the Department of Homeland Security says the U.S. is ramping up its security at government buildings here following a burst of terrorist attacks in North America last week. There was the self-radicalized Muslim convert charging police officers with a hatchet in New York. And in Canada, two separate lone wolf attacks left two soldiers dead. Western nations are on edge.

And today in Australia, officials were outraged over the discovery of this video shot a few months ago showing children as young as 6 calling for violence and chanting against the West. Australia's immigration video calling the video sickening and disturbing.

Joining me now for analysis of this video and more, CNN terror analyst, Paul Cruickshank.

Paul, good to see you.

So, CNN cannot verify the source of the video, but officials in Australia are reacting and it is pretty horrifying. What's your reaction?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: It is horrifying and these are kids between 6 and 13 years of age in a Sydney suburb a year ago and that being indoctrinated into radical and viscerally anti-Western ideology and it's a concern that this could be a stepping-stone for kids towards violence or perhaps towards recruitment to a group like ISIS.

There are 70 Australians who are believed to be fighting with terror groups in Syria and Iraq at the moment. And just last week, a 17- year-old Australian appeared in an ISIS propaganda video, Jake. TAPPER: Yes. I want to talk about that video in a second, but we

should point out that the reaction from the Australian ministers and others comes at the same time that Australia is debating this law called the Foreign Fighters Bill which would make it easier for the government to take away passports from people in Australia aiming to stop them from fleeing the country and going to join terrorists in Syria like ISIS.

Is this something that terrorism experts think all Western countries should be considering?

CRUICKSHANK: I think they think all Western countries should be considering this because the warriors, if these people leave places like Australia or Canada or the United States and get terrorist training in a place like Syria and Iraq, they can come back and launch a much deadlier attack than if they stayed at home and launch an attack.

TAPPER: Right, because we saw the two individuals and the two lone wolves in Canada both had problems getting out of the country and they both launched terrorist attacks killing two Canadian soldiers. But in particular, Australia seems to have a real problem. Earlier this week, as you noted, a video appeared of an Australian runaway, a teenager, starring in an ISIS propaganda video.

What is the issue here?

CRUICKSHANK: There is a significant amount of radicalization in Australia. They've been grappling with this problem for more than a decade. There are about 70 Australians believed to be fighting in Syria and Iraq. In the last several months we've seen several terrorist plots in Australia and there was this beheading plot in September and there was an attempted attack on Australian police officers in Melbourne, as well.

So, a great degree of concern about radicalization in Australia, worried that some of these 70 who are with ISIS and Jabhat al-Nusra and other groups could come back to Australia and launch attacks. But also concern that people who are in Australia right now may decide to launch lone wolf attacks in ISIS' name.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about this move here in the United States, the Obama administration boosting security around federal buildings. They're trying to say, they're really going out of their way to insist this is no big deal and no one should worry. Should there be any concern?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, I think when we saw three terrorist attacks in North America last week, all apparently inspired by ISIS, and I think there is a significant concern that there could be more lone wolf attacks in North America in the United States. The spokesman of ISIS, Abu Muhammad al-Adnani a month ago launched this -- called for lone wolf attacks and we've seen three just last week. So, worry there could be more, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Paul Cruickshank, thank you so much. Coming up, computers used by President Obama's top advisers hacked and

apparently no one caught it until a tip came in from an allied country. And now, fingers are pointing at Russia as the prime suspect.

Plus, the White House not denying today that an administration official called Benjamin Netanyahu chicken something. It wasn't chicken something. It was more colorful than that, but I can't say it on TV.

Does this show just how strain the relationship is between Obama and Netanyahu?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: -- to "The Washington Post", you might want to look over yonder Russia.

CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown has more on this.

Pamela, what happened?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, U.S. officials I've been speaking with say that the investigation is still in its early stages, but investigators believe the breach emanated from Russia. We are told the threat was relatively well-contained, but what's so concerning is that it penetrated what is supposed to be one of the most secure systems in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Suspicious cyber activity detected on the White House computer network. But it appears the White House may not have been the ones to actually detect the breach. According to "The Washington Post", it was a tip from an ally that alerted the administration its computer systems had been compromised.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm not in a position to talk in any detail about how the nature of this threat was detected.

BROWN: To assess the threat, cyber security teams initiated temporary outages on its computer network to defend the system. As for who was behind the breach, the White House isn't saying.

EARNEST: Our efforts are ongoing and by publicly revealing what we know it might affect our ability to learn more.

BROWN: But U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge tell CNN while they're still investigating the origin of the attack, Russian hackers are considered to be the prime suspects as they usually are in cases of cyber attacks on the U.S. government and U.S. companies.

MARC ROTENBERG, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: We've seen just in the last few months, an increase in attacks that seem to be originating from Russia, and I think that is the particular concern today in Washington, about the attack on the White House. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And one of the sources I spoke with say given the complexity of the breach, it wouldn't be surprising if the Russian government was behind the breach, but it's still too early to know anything for sure, and a White House official tells CNN, for security reasons, we are not saying who was responsible, but that is not to say we are not aware. So, implying there that they may know who's behind this.

TAPPER: Pamela, I would imagine that they expect this sort of attack on a regular basis.

BROWN: Right. And as we just heard from the cyber security expert, there have been an increasing number of cyber attacks emanating from Russia, from China. Those are the two main actors in this.

But, of course, if you think about it, the White House is going to be a hot target. It's not surprising in that sense. What is surprising is that they were able to succeed and that supposedly, according to "The Washington Post" and what we have not been able to independently confirm, is that the ally is the one to sort of bring it to the White House's attention. Again, still working on confirming that part of it.

TAPPER: That's kind of disturbing if true.

Pamela Brown, thank you so much.

Our politics lead -- the race for the White House can't get started soon enough for some. Potential presidential candidates on the campaign trail in key states, technically for candidates on the ballot next week, but is their real agenda getting some face time in these important battlegrounds?

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)