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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Khorasan Threat; Nurse Defies Maine Quarantine; Bush vs. Clinton?; Pentagon Gives Update on ISIS War; A Few of Our Favorite Senate Races

Aired October 30, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: That nurse in Maine, she went on a bike ride as an exercise in civil disobedience.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The national lead. She's now defied quarantine orders in two states. The governor of Maine warning that nurse who is refusing to stay inside until there is zero chance she has Ebola, but far is the governor willing to go to stop her?

The politics lead. Bush takes a shot at Clinton on the campaign trail. No, you didn't just get out of the DeLorean. It's Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton -- how 2016 hopefuls are getting a head start this week on someone else's stage.

And the money lead. Is it some new world order conspiracy, why some people think cheaper prices at the pump have bigger consequences for ruthless terrorists?

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Jake Tapper. Welcome to THE LEAD.

We're going to begin with the national lead, fear of Ebola now fueling a fierce debate over competing American principles of liberty and security. A nurse back from the Ebola hot zone of West Africa is defying orders to remain inside her home in Maine and she is now on the receiving end from a stern warning from the governor.

Republican Paul LePage released a statement today saying that negotiations with that nurse, Kaci Hickox, have failed. And he is prepared, he says, to exercise the full extent of his authority to enforce a quarantine order, though what exactly that means is unclear.

Hickox proved that she's not yet willing to blink in this stare-down with the state. With law enforcement shadowing her every move, Hickox and her boyfriend set off on a bike ride this morning, ignoring orders for her to stay inside her home. But Governor LePage says the police were not following her to stop her. They were there for her own security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PAUL LEPAGE (R), MAINE: Right now, she can come out of the house if she wants and -- but we can't protect her when she does that. The reason there's a police car there is to protect her more than anybody, because the last thing I want is for her to get hurt.

But at the same token, her behavior is really riling up a lot of people up. She's not acting as smart as she probably should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: This showdown began after Hickox got back from volunteering to treat Ebola patients in Sierra Leone. She landed in Newark, New Jersey. She was quarantined there because a scan showed she had a fever.

She says the results of that scan were not accurate. After a showdown with New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, she then transferred to her home state of Maine. All the while, Hickox has insisted that she's not a threat to public safety because she has no Ebola symptoms and the virus is only contagious if one has symptoms.

Hickox is vowing to fight any court orders to keep her in isolation for 21 days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KACI HICKOX, NURSE: I am frustrated by this fact, and I have been told that the attorney general's intention is to file legal action against me. And if this does occur, then I will challenge those legal actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining me now live from Fort Kent, Maine, is CNN correspondent Jean Casarez.

Jean, the governor's office says that the governor tried to negotiate a compromise with this nurse. Do we know what those negotiations entailed?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We don't directly, no, but I think we can make some pretty educated guests. Governor LePage says that there were hours of negotiations yesterday with the governor's attorney, the attorney general and the attorney for the nurse.

And Kaci is in that right home behind me right there. She's been there all day since that bike ride early this morning. But the governor goes on then to generalities, saying that for health care workers that are at some risk, and that is Kaci, he says -- and I think we can show everybody this -- that there are things they can't do.

They cannot take commercial aviation. They cannot take public transportation. They cannot go to public places. They are banned from public places, the word is. They are banned from the workplace, but they can walk, they can jog, conceivably ride a bike, but they have to maintain a three-foot distance away from others.

I think what he's saying, Jake, is that the state was willing to concede to this subjective determination of what a 21-day quarantine in your house is, and that her side just wouldn't take it. So, what does that mean? Well, it may mean that she wants to go among the public, which she has not done today. And it also means the governor may be of his word that say that will exercise all the authority he has, which will be to go into a court here in the state of Maine.

TAPPER: All right, Jean Casarez, thank you so much.

While Kaci Hickox's battle with the state intensifies, she is getting support from at least one local official who agrees that she has a right to leave her home in Fort Kent, Maine. Fort Kent is home to about 4,000 people.

It's about as far north as you can go in the lower 48 states. It's just across the river from the Saint John River from Canada.

Joining us now on the phone is the town manager of Fort Kent, Donald Guimond.

Mr. Guimond, thanks for joining us.

So you disagree with the governor's order for an in-home quarantine for Kaci. Why?

DONALD GUIMOND, TOWN MANAGER, FORT KENT, MAINE: I would say that that is not totally accurate.

We agree, as a community, to abide by the federal CDC guidelines and we believe Kaci has been doing that. Unless instructed otherwise, that's the guidelines that we will follow.

TAPPER: OK. So, you agree that she should abide by the CDC guidelines.

But what the governor seems to be proposing and the Maine health officials go beyond that. And you just -- are you saying you agree or you disagree with what the governor is proposing?

GUIMOND: What I'm saying is that, as a community, we would enforce the CDC guidelines because those are the guidelines that are in place today.

If in the future the governor is successful in implementing different policies, then we would follow those different policies. But as of today, the federal policies are the policies that what we're following.

TAPPER: The governor has said that people in the community, your community, are afraid of Kaci and that he fears that if she is seen around town, someone might try to hurt her in retaliation for her defiance. Is that accurate? Are there people there who are afraid of her? Are there people there that might hurt her?

GUIMOND: I would agree that the folks in our community are concerned about this situation.

I would not totally agree that there are people from within our community that would necessarily harm her. But we're part of the world. And, you know, anyone could show up at our doorsteps and create havoc here and we're trying to avoid that as best we can.

TAPPER: Yesterday, when asked about why state officials are insisting upon this in-home quarantine, Maine's health commissioner cited -- quote -- "concerns about the lack of ability and the lack of trustworthiness in the information that has been received" -- unquote.

Do you know what the health commissioner is referring to, why the state of Maine would have doubts about the information it receives about Kaci Hickox's health?

GUIMOND: I do not have any idea what that is about.

TAPPER: Do you have any doubts about her health and the status of her health, as she has told the world that she does not have any symptoms?

GUIMOND: Well, we have no reason to believe that her statements as it pertains to her symptoms are inaccurate.

TAPPER: The governor, as you heard earlier in the show, said that her behavior, Kaci Hickox's behavior, is riling people up. Is that accurate?

GUIMOND: I think the attention that this has brought upon our community is having that effect, and Kaci is part of that as well.

TAPPER: How has this impacted the people of Fort Kent more largely?

GUIMOND: Well, I mean, in the greater context, it's put our community, in essence, in the center of the world, and it is all- consuming.

TAPPER: All right. Donald Guimond, the city manager for Fort Kent, thank you so much. We appreciate your time.

GUIMOND: You're welcome.

TAPPER: Moving now to our world lead and the one person who keeps intelligence officials up at night, now after airstrikes failed to take him out, this bomb maker is a serious threat to Americans here in the U.S., officials say. What is he planning now? What is being done to stop him?

That is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Now it's time for the world lead.

There were 47 U.S. Tomahawk Navy missiles with his name on them on the opening night of U.S. airstrikes in Syria, but now U.S. intel is saying one of the most dangerous terrorists in the world survived that barrage. He's not a member of ISIS. He's a French bomb maker for the terrorist

group known as Khorasan, which is basically like an al Qaeda super group with a focus on recruiting foreign fighters with Western passports to carry out terrorist attacks on airstrikes and elsewhere.

And despite the flashy videos and barbaric executions staged by ISIS, officials say the Khorasan terrorist group may be the biggest threat to the United States right now, specifically this one guy.

And our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown has more on this -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we have been hearing, Jake, that the group still poses an imminent threat, despite these strikes.

And now we're learning a little bit more about who may have survived, including David Drugeon. He's a terrorist who has U.S. intelligence officials on edge and he poses a double-barrel threat. He's extremely skilled at making easily concealed bombs and he is adept at recruiting Westerners to join jihad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): He's the French jihadist U.S. intelligence officials say could pose one of the biggest threats to the U.S.; 24- year-old David Drugeon is an explosives expert and a key member of the terrorist group Khorasan, a collection of former al Qaeda operatives who are still actively plotting against the U.S.

Drugeon was one of the main targets when the U.S. sent 47 Tomahawk missiles on several suspected Khorasan sites in Syria last month. But U.S. officials say there's evidence Drugeon escaped the strikes.

SETH JONES, SENIOR POLITICAL SCIENTIST, RAND CORPORATION: Does not appear to be the case is U.S. strikes against Khorasan have fundamentally destroyed the network. Senior officials continue to live in Syria, continue to become involved in plotting in both Europe and the United States.

BROWN: According to French media reports, Drugeon once worked on behalf of French intelligence and then defected while in Afghanistan.

He eventually made his way to Pakistan and is believed to have traveled onto Syria in the last two years.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: In Pakistan, he became skilled at making explosives. He had contact with a number of al Qaeda leaders there.

BROWN: U.S. intelligence sources say Drugeon is adept at making easily concealed bombs, the kind of bomb that could be hidden in packages and shipped on commercial flights, similar to the printer cartridge bomb found in a cargo plane in 2010 built by al Qaeda and Yemen's master bombmaker, Ibrahim al Asiri. Khorasan's efforts to blow up U.S.-bound flights led to increased

security measures at overseas airports this summer. Recently retired director of the National Counterterrorism Center, Matthew Olsen, said Khorasan still poses an imminent threat to the U.S.

MATTHEW OLSEN, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER: We saw that they were looking to test explosives. So, they were in, you know, the advanced stages of plotting. And again, they had both that intent and what we saw that capability that put them into this -- nearing an execution phase of an attack.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And as a Westerner, Drugeon is also believed to be heavily involved in facilitating the movement, the fighters back and forth from Europe and in planning attacks in Europe. And the big concern here is that he's helping to lure foreign fighters with Western passports to smuggle bombs onto U.S.-bound airplanes -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: So, Pamela, who else escaped besides Drugeon from that attack, that first night that the U.S. bombed Syria?

BROWN: I've been speaking to intelligence, counterterrorism officials about this, Jake, and it's believed that Muhsin al-Fadhli also escaped. He is known to be one of the leaders of Khorasan. He used to be in Osama bin Laden's inner circle and he was actually one of the people behind 9/11. He suspected to be. And it's believed that he also escaped among other leaders in that group.

The theory is that leading up to the strikes, there was reporting on Khorasan, their name gotten out there. And officials I've spoken with believe that they actually left the area once they knew that counterterrorism units here in the U.S. were on to them and that's why they escaped the strikes.

TAPPER: Pamela Brown, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

We are now almost three months into the war to, quote, "degrade and destroy ISIS". Today, the secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff came out to give an update on the bombing campaign and on efforts to take back ISIS gains on the ground. So, far that task has been left to forces in the region that are friendly to the United States. Some have endured a slaughter at the hands of these terrorists.

Our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto joins us now.

Jim, what did Defense Secretary Hagel have to say?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, he and Dempsey started by saying that there's been encouraging progress, both with Iraqi security forces, as well as Kurdish forces against ISIS in various places.

But there's one place very visibly right now, you're having very much the opposite effect. It's a Sunni tribe. It's in Anbar province. It's important because you need the Sunnis to challenge ISIS, a Sunni extremist group. You need them on your side and you have this tribe that's doing that.

They're called the Albu Nimr tribe, but they're getting massacred. Four hundred people killed in the last 48 hours.

So, I asked Secretary Hagel, what is the U.S. and Iraqi's doing to rescue them and here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Here you have a group that is literally risking their lives, right, in the way that the coalition is frankly desperate for, and yet, no one came to their aid except an airdrop of meals.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: This is just another but one of many daily dimensions of what is going on over there. The brutality of ISIL and what they are doing has to be stopped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: A reference to my question there, the U.S. did drop on Monday humanitarian supplies to this group, basically Halal meals, but no weapons because Iraqi forces only requested humanitarian aid. So, I said, did the Iraqi request military support, air support for any sort of operation to rescue these guys? And what General Dempsey and what Secretary Hagel said that the Iraqi forces are in purely defensive positions. They're not going out on offensive operations.

And that's really a measure of where things stand in Iraq and why you haven't seen Iraqi or really Kurdish forces pushback. They have been defending the ground, stopping the advance, but they're not taking any of that ground back. That's a real troublesome sign at this stage.

TAPPER: It's discouraging and as I don't need to tell you, "The New York Times" yesterday noted that Secretary Hagel apparently to Susan Rice, President Obama's national security advisor, a letter blasting part of the Syria policy. Explain.

SCIUTTO: What's going on right now is something unheard of in D.C. -- a blame game.

TAPPER: Right, right.

SCIUTTO: Who is responsible for trouble in Obama's foreign policy?

And you have a narrative being put out there, let's just guess, coming from some in the White House that people like Secretary Hagel, John Kerry don't have the president's ear. So perhaps in response to that, you have Secretary Hagel saying, well, listen, in fact, I sent this memo criticizing his policy, which is also interesting to acknowledge that there is disagreement within the administration on Iraq and Syria policy.

Here's what Secretary Hagel had to say acknowledging that disagreement. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAGEL: That's a responsibility of any leader and because we are a significant element of this issue, we owe the president and we owe the National Security Council our best thinking on this. And it has to be honest and it has to be direct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: And where he was directing specifically is that he wrote this memo saying, listen, we have to do something about Assad in Syria as well. The war can't be all about ISIS because, inadvertently, you're helping Assad by degrading ISIS, because ISIS, of course, is one of the Assad regime's key enemies there. So, he said, we have to have that as part of our strategy here.

TAPPER: Yes, very -- it's very odd and you had in that "Times" story by Mark Landler, you had the White House officials were describing John Kerry as if he were the Sandra Bullock character in --

SCIUTTO: Yes. Untethered.

TAPPER: Untethered to the administration, just drifting off.

SCIUTTO: And Kerry said today, listen, that's just Washington gossip. It was also interesting, everybody is trying to show their proximity because General Dempsey said he spent more time with the president than his wife, you know?

TAPPER: Interesting. All right. Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

Coming up: from the independent who could be the tie-breaking vote in the Senate if he wins, to the Republican who has barely lived a year in the state in which he is running and the Democrat with a new uncomfortable nickname, the most interesting, the tightest races we'll be watching on Tuesday. That's coming up next.

Plus, why taking a chance could have changed the outcome of the World Series.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

It's the jazzy politics music for the midterms. And now, it's time for the Politics Lead and those crucial midterm elections just five days away.

Raindrops on yard signs, and angry voters, boldy incumbents, and vain self-promoters, brown paper ballots all tied up with favorite strings, these are a few of our favored things. And in that spirit, we're bringing in three of our members of the Von Trapp family to discuss their favorite races around the country.

We're going to start with national -- we have CNN national political reporter Peter Hamby, senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar, and chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

But, Bri, I'm going to start with you, with your permission.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

TAPPER: In a state in which I went to college, your favorite race, your favorite Senate race is in New Hampshire where the latest polls show incumbent Jeanne Shaheen, the Democrat, is slightly -- just slightly ahead of Scott Brown, the Republican.

KEILAR: It's still a toss-up. It's within the margin of error, and sort of gist, sort of not, I will say my favorite race is one where you can show a racy photo of one of the candidates. You know, of course, I'm talking about --

TAPPER: Jeanne Shaheen?

KEILAR: No, Scott Brown.

TAPPER: Oh.

KEILAR: Of course, I'm talking about the 1982 centerfold picture.

TAPPER: What the -- all right.

KEILAR: There you go. There it is. So, of course, this is what he is sort of famous for, he was a -- we learned when he was elected in 2010 as senator of Massachusetts.

But I think this is so fascinating because Jeanne Shaheen was up double digits and Scott Brown who lost his Senate seat in Massachusetts in 2012 after gaining in spectacular fashion in 2010, he just packs up and moves to New Hampshire 10 months ago, and now, he's got a shot.

This really kind of shows you that New Hampshire may be reflecting the national mood and it often does. In 2006, we saw it go, the entire congressional delegation went from Republican to Democrat, went back in 2010, went back in 2012. Is it going to do the same this time? And it's really sort of making it speak to the issue that if Democrats can't hold on to it here --

TAPPER: Yes.

KEILAR: -- how can they hold onto it in Arkansas or something like that?

TAPPER: A state that Obama won twice. Fascinating race.

Peter, your favorite matchup, a little bit of west of there, in Iowa, where the latest poll show that Joni Ernst, the Republican, is edging ahead of the Democratic congressman -- it's an open seat -- Bruce Braley.

PETER HAMBY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. Joni Ernst has had about one, two, three-point lead steadily over the last few months, and the reason this is so interesting is this is a race that Democrats didn't think they'd have to worry about. I mean, Iowa is a state that's been trending steadily blue over the last decade. Obama won it by six points in 2012 and the Republic field was a bunch of kind of no names and then Joni Ernst broke out of the pack with the famous ad where she's talked about how she grew up castrating hogs on a farm and she would cut pork in Washington.

TAPPER: Get in line.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Get in line.

HAMBY: But and Bruce Braley, the congressman, has had a series of gaffes -- to use an old campaign --

TAPPER: The worse on in Texas.

HAMBY: That one, where he mocks Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee is just a farmer from Iowa, not a lawyer, in front of a bunch of trial lawyers with alcohol on the table. This video became a staple in Republican TV ads.

My favorite one, though, was s when he complained that he couldn't get towel service in the House gym during the government shut down.

But the race does remind tight. All this 2016 candidates are coming out there purely out of generosity on the --

TAPPER: Yes, only.

HAMBY: Hillary Clinton was there yesterday for Bruce Braley. But one thing I'm looking at is, yes, Joni Ernst has a little bit of a lead, but this race is going to be a real test of whether Democrats can use field and get out the vote --

TAPPER: Right.

HAMBY: -- to overcome the sort of national sentiment. They have been better at it than Republicans for the last few cycles. I think they're still better at it. Even Republicans admit that, Democrats are leading in the early vote. But --

TAPPER: Democrats keep going up there and calling him Bruce Bailey, and his name is Bruce Braley.

BORGER: That would be the first --

TAPPER: That's not good.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: What a mess.

BORGER: Right.

TAPPER: And none of these people have more than 50 percent in the polls. Gloria, yours is even more west than that to Colorado.

BORGER: I'm moving -- coming back to the west. But, you know --

TAPPER: Which by the way, a "Denver Post" poll out today shows it deadlocked.

BORGER: Deadlocked, that's why I picked it.

But like Iowa, it's a state that Democrats -- you know, Obama won it twice and they are like, this shouldn't be a purple state. This needs to become a blue state. So, now, you have Democratic incumbent Mark Udall against a two-term Republican congressman Cory Gardner, very conservative.

First thing, I'm all about appealing to women, it's great to go after women voters. This is key to the Democratic victories, such as they are. And Udall has decided to do that. Cory Gardner is very conservative on women's health issues. But there seems to be a backlash in the state. More than half of his ads, about half of Udall's ads have been about women's health, to the point where he's been mocked as "Senator Uterus".