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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ferguson Grand Jury Reaches Decision; Ferguson Grand Jury Announcement To Come Soon

Aired November 24, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: A decision by 12 people could throw this entire community headfirst into chaos.

I'm Jake Tapper in Saint Louis County, and this is THE LEAD.

The national lead. It is official. A decision is in. They could charge him with murder or manslaughter or they could let officer Darren Wilson walk. As the grand jury gets sent home, new CNN polls breaking right now show that America wants the police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown to go to trial.

And they found out the grand jury had made a decision right here on CNN. Now that Michael Brown's family has been notified the fate of their son's killer will be announced today, just what are they saying? How's the family reacting? We will talk with one of the Brown family's lawyers.

Plus, police stockpiling rubber bullets and tear gas grenades, as protesters anticipating justice not to be served get ready to descend upon the streets of Ferguson and the surrounding Saint Louis area.

Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

You are looking live at the courthouse in Clayton, Missouri, the Saint Louis County seat where a grand jury could be moments away from revealing to the world if the police officer who shot unarmed teenager Michael Brown after what was by all accounts a rough confrontation will be put on trial.

We now know that the grand jury here has reached a decision. U.S. and local law enforcement officials told CNN earlier today that the panel has made up its mind about whether to indict Darren Wilson and that the Saint Louis County prosecutor will announce its finding. That revelation could come really at any moment.

The new polls breaking right here on THE LEAD show a majority of Americans, 57 percent, believe Wilson should be charged with a crime, be it murder or manslaughter. Officials have been warning for weeks, for months really to expect protests if the grand jury does not indict Wilson; 63 percent of the public says if the grand jury decides to let him walk, peaceful protests would be justified. That number polls across racial lines.

Virtually the same number of whites and nonwhites agree that, yes, peaceful protests would be warranted should Wilson not be sent to trial, but peaceful, of course, the key word there. After Brown's killing touched off weeks of violent confrontations between police and protesters and arrests have ticked up as the grand jury has flirted with decision day, the announcement of a pending announcement has given law enforcement a few hours' lead time to prepare themselves for the next potential wave of violence.

CNN is situated across Saint Louis County to cover the case.

Evan Perez, Sara Sidner and Jason Carroll are all standing by.

Evan Perez, I want to go to you first. You're right next to me. Here you go. You have been camped out here for weeks now awaiting the decision that we could learn any moment now. What can you tell us about the decision?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we know that there's a plan in place now. We know that at 4:00, we're going to get an especially announcement from the prosecutor's office.

And then we will hear from them when they're going to have a press conference. We're also expecting to hear from state and local officials who are going to put the word out that they want to make sure -- these are all Central time -- they want to make sure that we -- they want to make sure that everyone is aware that they want calm on the streets. They want to make sure that people know that law enforcement is prepared, that the state has made all the preparations necessary to protect people's property, protect people's safety.

That's the message they want to send out. They were ready, Jake, for this to come out this weekend. So this is just really a short delay.

TAPPER: Evan, the grand jury has heard more than 700 hours of testimony, but still the grand jury asked for a few more hours on Friday to deliberate. Have you heard anything more on what their decision might be, what charges Darren Wilson could be possibly indicted on?

PEREZ: Well, Jake, at this point, we're basically reading the tea leaves, really, because, by this time, if there was an indictment, we would expect that Darren Wilson would have been told that he is to surrender, because he would be arrested and he would be processed to face those charges.

So, by now, we're certainly checking to make sure we hear what they're saying. But we expect that the official announcement will come much later this evening from the prosecutor's office themselves.

TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez, thank you so much.

With the Saint Louis County prosecutor set to make an announcement any moment, police here in Ferguson and the surrounding area of Saint Louis County continue to prepare to confront what they saw on the streets a few months ago, streams of protesters marching, shutting down the main arteries of the city, turning this town into a battleground because of some looters and some violent protesters. They are a minority, but they still were there. CNN's Sara Sidner is live outside the Ferguson police station.

Sara, have you seen any movement there in terms of protesters, in terms of law enforcement?

(CROSSTALK)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we have.

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: Some of the protesters are starting to show up now. I just want to give you a little bit of the scene.

These gentlemen were not out here a few months ago. These gentlemen were not out here a few months ago. They now are out here. This young lady, we have seen throughout the two months I have been here. She's painted her truck and constantly reminding people by honking that they are with the family of Michael Brown.

But what you have really been seeing, Jake -- and I think we need to be very clear about this -- in the two months that I have been in town and coming back and forth here, really, the majority of the protests have been peaceful. The early protests in August where you did see unrest, where you did see violence, where you did see destruction and looting, that has really changed.

The relationship between the protesters and the police seems to have changed. Where the protesters are now policing themselves, they have been doing so for many weeks now, yes, there are some issues, yes, there have been more arrests, those arrests mostly because people will stand in the middle of this street, usually in this very street, because we are right in front of the police department where people have been every single night for more than 100 days.

There have been protesters here every night, rain, shine or snow. We can tell you though the blocking of traffic is what usually ends up -- the police come out and then they take people in. So you're seeing a bit of that. But really nobody's really been injured or no police officers have faced any injuries themselves over these last few weeks.

The protesters who have been here every day and are from Ferguson are saying if you're going to be violent, you're not with us. We want to speak our minds and we want to be able to be out here. And we want to tell the nation how we feel about what's happening. What we do not want is to see our community destroyed.

And you have seen this as well, Jake. There are dozens of businesses who have decided to board up. And I want to show you one of the notes that was left on one of the businesses that's just up here, saying, "We need your prayers."

I spoke to the two people inside. They are both from Pakistan. They have been here for a very long time. They said, we all bleed the same blood. We hope that this community can heal -- Jake.

TAPPER: Sara Sidner outside the police station in Ferguson, Missouri, thanks.

Jason Carroll now is live at the command center. This is a staging area for police and other law enforcement personnel preparing to fend off what could be some very angry and passionate protesters, as well as some other individuals from the Saint Louis County area writ large or even from out of town who are looking to create real trouble.

Jason, you have been talking to people there. You're starting to get word from those in the community. What happens now after the indictment is announced or the lack of indictment is announced, the decision?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first off, just within the past few hours or so, I ran into one of Michael Brown's relatives, a woman who identified herself as one of his cousins.

And when we talked about the grand jury, I think she expressed the way some people really feel here. She said -- frankly, she said, I'm not optimistic. I just really just don't even want to talk about.

And a lack of optimism is what some people, at least in this area of West Florissant, are feeling, where we saw so much unrest in August, where you see the boarded-up stores that you heard Sara Sidner talk about. You have a great overwhelming sense of people who just want this to be over.

As you know, Ferguson, overwhelmingly black, where you are, Clayton, overwhelmingly white. And I have been in both communities speaking to people on all sides of the issues. And the one common denominator that you get from people on both sides of this, whether you support officer Darren Wilson or you support Michael Brown is many people out here on the ground, Jake, they just want this to be over.

And so there is some relief in that the grand jury has finally reached a decision. Now people just are waiting to see what the community reaction will be.

TAPPER: All right, Jason Carroll, Sara Sidner, Evan Perez, thank you all so much. Really appreciate it.

Missouri Governor Jay Nixon declared a state of emergency a week ago. And since the August protests, Saint Louis County police have purchased nearly $175,000 worth of riot gear, including $25,000 alone on tear gas and smoke grenades, according to "The Guardian" newspaper.

But for normal residents, the ones not out on the streets protesting, careful fear undercuts their every move.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): A city on edge. It's cliche, but it seems almost too quiet here. Boarded-up shop windows line the streets of Ferguson, Missouri, and in nearby Clayton, Missouri, much the same, as if a hurricane is headed here. Here, a grand jury decision is about to be announced determining the fate of officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Mike Brown. Sporadic protests have continued here since August. Even last night,

protesters bloodied an out-of-town reporter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not feeling woozy or anything. I think I will make it.

TAPPER: There are those worried about whether justice will be served and those worried that their livelihoods will be destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want to have to go through what we went through last time.

TAPPER: Jim Lalonee (ph) and his dad own this convenience store not far from the protest site in August. Their store was looted twice this summer. Over the summer, they showed us this surveillance footage of looters kicking and shooting out windows, breaking in, stealing things, then trying to set the store on fire.

(on camera): You were thinking about, we're going to shut it down?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we had a lot of conversations back and forth, my dad and I. We wanted to stay open, see, because we have been here for so long. And my dad didn't want to just throw everything on the floor.

TAPPER (voice-over): The plywood is now back up on the windows, even though that means business drops off up to 40 percent. Like everyone here, they're waiting to see what will happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as we know what's going to happen, I'm just going to close down the store and hope for the authorities to take care of whatever is going to happen outside.

TAPPER: At the Canfield apartments where Mike Brown was shot and killed, a memorial to him has grown. The dolls are by now wet and disheveled and sad. Here, his former neighbors are waiting and hopeful there will not be a repeat of what they saw this summer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kind of difficult of getting in here when all that took place. But I'm prepared for it as if I can't get into where I live.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're keeping a positive thought on everything.

TAPPER: Just blocks away, the businesses that the residents of the Canfield Apartments frequent, they're on edge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are small business people that really live on the edge. Many of them are on the breaking point from the last go- round and the last thing they need is more violence.

TAPPER: Jake Kansler (ph) is a lawyer representing many of the businesses here that were targeted last time. Owners are reluctant to talk to the media today, for fear they will become targets for looters and vandals. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people here, the true residents know that when

this is all over with, when it's said and done, they have to come back here and live here. They don't want it destroyed.

I think it's some of the outside folks that have come and said, they don't care. They're going to go home to wherever it is they live and leave this behind once they have had their 15 minutes of fame.

TAPPER: Back at the Canfield Apartments, one resident tidied up Michael Brown's three-month-old makeshift memorial, concealing his face with a mask, for fear, he says, of being targeted by law enforcement or supporters of officer Wilson.

He predicts that if Wilson is not indicted, Canfield Street would be fine, but the local commercial drag, he said, might be in danger.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: We do know that Michael Brown's family was notified that the grand jury has made a decision. What have they been told? How are they reacting? What is their request to the community? We will talk to their attorney next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

You were looking at the courthouse in the county seat of St. Louis County, Missouri, Clayton, Missouri, where the grand jury met and deliberated and now we're told it has made a decision. We are waiting to hear that decision whether Police Officer Darren Wilson will be indicted for shooting unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown or whether he will not.

We've just learned that Michael Brown's father is now asking for a 4 1/2-minute moment of silence before any protests begin this evening, 4 1/2 minutes of silence to symbolize the 4 1/2 hours that Michael Brown Jr.'s body was lying in the streets following the shooting. I'm joined now by brown family attorney, Daryl Parks.

Mr. Parks, thanks for joining us, as always.

What's the state of mind for the Brown family right now? How are they doing?

DARYL PARKS, CO-COUNSEL FOR MICHAEL BROWN FAMILY: Well, Jake, it's always been anticipating this moment when they would finally hear the decision of this grand jury. So, it's with hope still that they can get justice, because as of now, we don't know what the decision is. But they remain very prayerful that the killer of their son will still be held to justice in this case.

TAPPER: And where will they be when the decision is announced and made public?

PARKS: Well, right now, they're at home. However, think about it, all they got was a phone call through our

counsel's office in St. Louis, telling them an announcement would be made later on that day. Obviously, they deserve a little bit more than just a heads-up phone call that we're going to make an announcement concerning the killer of your son. But for right now, that's all they have.

However --

TAPPER: Yes.

PARKS: -- certainly, as the victims in this case, they deserve a lot more than just a heads-up phone call. They've always said they deserve to be treated better than they've been treated in this case by the prosecutor's office. But they remaining hopeful that at the end of the day, this guy will be held responsible killing Michael Brown Jr. in this case.

TAPPER: You noted that the family had heard from the D.A. But the family, as I understand it, learned that the grand jury had reached a decision from CNN. Have you gotten any explanation about why the family wasn't contacted more quickly?

PARKS: No explanation whatsoever. In fact, around the same time that Ben had the conversation with Sunny there in St. Louis, I had gotten an indication from some other people that we know in St. Louis about the time of the press conference, that the governor had already set his press conference and the prosecutor also had set a time for his press conference as well.

So, obviously, they had shared information with others but not with this family as they made their planning on their decisions. So, that type of treatment by the prosecutor's office certainly leaves a lot more to be desired by this family. It gives them strong concerns about how they'll be handled going forward in this case as well.

TAPPER: Mr. Parks, do you think the family will learn of the decision before the public does?

PARKS: Well, that's the proper way to do things. I don't think that they should be treated like the general public in this case, Jake. They should be treated like a victim in this case. As customary in America, there are always victims' advocates who let the victim know what's about to transpire even if it's not the ultimate final outcome. But they should at least be briefed and prepped to know what's about to take place, before the general public or other outsiders would know. They deserve that.

And so, and I can tell you, this family has very strong sentiments about how they've been treated early on, ever since when Michael Brown was laying on the ground in Canfield, how they were not allowed to tend to him as this case has been prosecuted. They have not been treated as the victims in this case. The officer has been treated as the victim.

So, they continue to cry out that they should be treated like victims and should be treated not like the general public in this case and not like the media.

TAPPER: Daryl Parks, attorney for the Brown family, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it as always.

PARKS: Thank you.

TAPPER: Coming up, how exactly did the grand jury reach its decision from witnesses to evidence? Was this grand jury process different from most? Our legal experts will explain, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We're live in St. Louis County, Missouri.

Any minute now, we are expecting to hear the grand jury's decision into the shooting death of Michael Brown. The big question, of course, will Officer Darren Wilson be charged in that shooting?

We want to get some insight now into how the grand jury may have reached its decision.

I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst Mark O'Mara and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Mark, thanks for joining us. I'll start with you.

What if Wilson is indicted? What is the process? Must he turn himself in right away?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: If he's indicted, then, probably, the state attorney's office would already be in contact with the defense to say, bring him in. Mainly for his own safety, to get him in before anyone else knows about the indictment and he's going to have to sit there until he goes before a judge and a bond is set. If he gets indicted, that's going to be the process.

TAPPER: If there were an indictment, is it likely that we would already be seeing some sort of arrest. Would that have already played or is that just too much to speculate?

O'MARA: I think that's speculation. Probably, there would be a conversation between the prosecution and the defense. They've probably already had an agreement in place saying they will call them up and let them know it's time to come in, if it is time to come in. They'll get him in to keep him safe.

TAPPER: Jeffrey, obviously we do not know everything that the grand jury heard. And that is an important thing for all of us to remember, especially as we talk about the polling that suggests what the public wants. This grand jury knows the evidence far more than we do. But I do want to play some accounts from witnesses. These are people who say they saw the shooting back in August.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kid body-jerked as if he was hit from behind. He turned around and he puts his hands up like this. And the cop continued to fire until he just dropped down to the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they were running, they weren't even reaching for anything. It was like he was running for his life and just got shot and turned around. Still didn't try to reach for anything. He put his hands into the air, being compliant, he still got shot down like a dog.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He pulled down his weapon, his weapon was drawn, and he said, I'll shoot you or I'm going to shoot, and in the same moment, the first shot went off. We looked at him, he was shot and there was blood coming from him. And we took off running.

So, as he was running, the officer was trying to get out of the car and once he got out of the car, he pursued my friend but his weapon was drawn. Now, he didn't see any weapon drawn at him or anything like that, us going for no weapon, his weapon was drawn when he got of the car. He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and he put his hands in the air, and he started to get down but the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and he fired several more shots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)