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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Holiday Travel; Unrest in Ferguson; Darren Wilson Tells His Side of Story

Aired November 26, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: After two nights of fires, and looting, and gunshots, and tear gas, will there finally be peace on this third night in Ferguson on this holiday week?

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The national lead, cities across the country protesting, demonstrators showing solidarity with Michael Brown's family, as Ferguson burned again over the second night of demonstrations. It turned ugly. Are cries for justice being drowned out by screams of rage?

Ninety seconds and an eternity of doubt. We will never know exactly how the deadly confrontation between Michael Brown and Darren Wilson went down. Now that Darren Wilson is speaking out and Michael Brown's parents are speaking up, we will hear from both sides.

Plus, all your favorite Thanksgiving traditions now threatened by a barrage of wintry weather, and with nearly 50 million Americans going 50 miles or more this Thanksgiving, should you try to get to grandmother's house some other way? We will have answers for you from an expert.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin with our national lead and what Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson called a much better night in Ferguson, Missouri. Well, it's true no one charged at us with a brick. We saw a peaceful protests, however, corrupted again by criminals, vandals smashing in the few windows that escaped crowbars and destruction on Monday night, hurling bottles of urine and law enforcement and even toppling this police cruiser before turning it into a makeshift bonfire.

Police officers responded in the now familiar way, sending the crowd darting for cover, the smell of pepper spray or tear gas piercing the air. All told, Saint Louis County police say 44 people were arrested last night, four on felony charges.

And while tensions did not run as high and perhaps emotions weren't quite as raw, much of the damage to the city and to the people who make their lives there in Ferguson, well, it had already been done.

If you search for Prime Beauty Supply on Google Maps, this is what you see. This is what it looked like a few days ago and this is what it looked like yesterday when I anchored this show on the corner of West Florissant and Chambers, a burnt-out hulk of debris.

Sara Sidner is still in Ferguson. It's where she's been living for about three months now.

Sara, much of the city has been destroyed by violence. What are city and state officials anticipating this evening?

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you can probably see behind me that it's been snowing quite a bit here. It's quite cold and that usually means fewer people out on the streets.

I think they're expecting more of what we saw perhaps yesterday, where there were some crowds out, particularly in front of the police department, but that the numbers just weren't the same and that the crowds that were out last night much more calm than on Monday night.

And I think we should be really clear here. There's only really two areas that have been destroyed. West Florissant, much of that, the buildings have been destroyed, and South Florissant, but much of this town is still the same and much of this town was not affected by the looting and the rioting and the burning of buildings.

However, there are plenty of people and plenty of shops that are very upset about what happened. Some folks are blaming the National Guard, blaming the governor for not putting the National Guard in place to protect businesses. Other people are blaming those who actually did the vandalism, who actually looted, who actually burned, high frustration in the community, some folks blaming people from outside, saying there are a lot of outside agitators.

But I can tell you, there are plenty of people who were from right here in the Saint Louis, Ferguson, area, a lot of frustration today, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Sara Sidner live in Ferguson, thank you so much.

Darren Wilson, the police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown, broke his months-long silence yesterday in an interview with George Stephanopoulos, the chief anchor of ABC News. Wilson said he did not want to kill Michael Brown, but he had to kill Michael Brown.

Just hours ago, Brown's parents responded to Wilson's words in an interview with CNN's Sunny Hostin still clearly suffering from their son's death, from burying their child, from what they perceive as a lack of justice for their son. They made clear those words offered no relief and they do not believe officer Wilson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Do you believe that when officer Wilson first approached your son and told him to move out of the roadway, that your son's first response was "F. what you say?"

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MOTHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: No.

MICHAEL BROWN SR., FATHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: No. HOSTIN: Do you think that is even possible?

MCSPADDEN: No.

BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Do you think it's even possible officer Wilson is saying that your son reached into the car and tried to grab his gun?

BROWN: No.

HOSTIN: Do you think that it is possible that your son told him you are too much of a P-word to shoot me?

MCSPADDEN: I don't even believe those -- any of those words were exchanged at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Sunny Hostin joins me now.

Sunny, it's very clear these are two parents being forced to grieve again. We have seen this video of Michael Brown's stepfather comforting his mother before exploding with fury, screaming to burn down the town in not so many words.

You talked to them about that moment, when the stepfather got so angry. What did they have to say about that?

HOSTIN: Yes. They certainly still are grieving parents, Jake. The emotion is very raw. I got the opportunity to sit with them for almost an hour, perhaps even a little over an hour.

And I asked, what was going on? Why did you feel the need to go out there and stand onto the car and say those things that you said and what about those things your husband said?

And she made it clear, Jake, that she had just heard, she had just heard the grand jury's decision not to indict who she believed to be the killer of her son. And take a listen to what she said was the reason behind her going out there amongst the protesters that night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCSPADDEN: I felt the need to do that, because, one, like we just said, they never addressed us. And, two, you heard our pleas and our cries for everything to go the way it should be.

And then, third of all, we heard this, and it was just like a -- like I had been shot, like you shooting me now, just no respect, no sympathy, nothing. And so my emotions were raging, and I had to go up there and just to let them know, you just really don't care, do you? And why don't you care? This could be your child. This could be anybody's child.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HOSTIN: And so, Jake, as you see, she says that she was still grieving and that while she responded emotionally, her husband responded with anger.

And one thing I also want to mention is she says, to this day, she has not heard from any Ferguson official, not the mayor, not the chief of police, no one, and that that is still very hurtful to the family.

TAPPER: Sunny Hostin in New York, thanks.

The full interview with Michael Brown's patients airs tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on "ANDERSON COOPER," "A.C. 360."

The cover of next week's "New Yorker" perfectly capturing, as it so often does, how many Americans across the country are feeling right now, divided, divided along racial lines, divided over how police officers should respond to suspects, especially those who are unarmed and those exactly like Michael Brown, whose death and a grand jury's decision to not indict Darren Wilson sparked all of this.

We have no idea if Brown's family or if Wilson will stay in Ferguson, but for the mix of people left behind, black, white, protesters, police, Tuesday night only brought more chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): The streets of Ferguson burst at the seams with protesters once again. Most were peaceful, yet there was violence and unrest as well, as police cars were turned over and even torched in front of Ferguson City Hall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police car on fire.

TAPPER: Yet officials considered Tuesday night to be an improvement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did have a much better night tonight, and like we talked about last night and earlier today, we are committed to making sure that we continue to make our community safe.

TAPPER: After Monday night's protests, police discovered the body of 20-year-old Deandre Joshua, seen here in Facebook photos, shot in the head just blocks from the Canfield Green apartment complex, where Michael Brown lost his life in August. Joshua's family told "USA Today" they're positive Joshua was killed in connection with the protests, though that has yet to be confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will be subject to arrest.

TAPPER: So, 24 hours later, the bar for improvement was low.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one lost their lives, and that's a blessing. You know, for our community, that is a blessing and something that we can hold our hats on.

TAPPER: Missouri law enforcement officials noted that the second night of Ferguson protests resulted in less violence, less arson, less looting and only 44 arrests.

That's compared with nearly 80 Monday night, when vandals hijacked the demonstrations and set parts of the city ablaze.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Burning buildings, torching cars, destroying property, those are criminal acts. And people should be prosecuted if they engage in criminal acts.

TAPPER: The president called for accountability, as protesters in nearly 170 cities joined Ferguson to demand the same for officer Wilson.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: Darren Wilson.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace!

TAPPER: Who will likely not face any criminal charges in the death of Michael Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This grand jury announcement really represents salt poured into a brutal wound of injustice.

TAPPER: The Saint Louis suburb of Ferguson itself stretches fewer than seven square miles, but the outcries here echo loudly throughout the nation.

In the streets of Portland, Oregon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will get justice.

TAPPER: And Seattle. Protesters flooded through New York City streets, Los Angeles intersections, and even set streets on fire in Oakland, California.

Demonstrations turned dangerous in Minneapolis, where a vehicle pinned protesters to the ground. Back in Ferguson, there was less violence, due in part to a near doubling of National Guard troops, 2,200 last night, compared with just 700 Monday. This is what passes for good news in Ferguson, Missouri, these days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want me to outline like you did the other three?

TAPPER: As with the Christmas scene one store owner painted on the board protecting Honey and Sweetie's shop in downtown, this holiday season, some residents of Ferguson, Missouri, will look to find the good wherever they can.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: When officer Darren Wilson spoke for the first time publicly, he described Michael Brown as a demon. He says he has a clean conscience, but does officer Wilson think he could or should have done anything differently, anything that could have prevented the death of Michael Brown?

His answer -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Continuing our coverage of the national lead -- he has been painted as everything from villain to victim after a deadly 90-second confrontation with an unarmed black 18-year-old. And for the first time since that confrontation, Officer Darren Wilson is speaking publicly, an exclusive interview with ABC News about what he says happened and why he says he had no choice, but to kill Michael Brown.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is live to share some of the details from that interview -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jake. Well, this is a long, detailed explanation of what happened and what unfolded there on Canfield Street where Michael Brown was shot and killed. But as you might imagine, what Officer Wilson has to say isn't necessarily going over very well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Darren Wilson says he wants the world to know that he was just doing his job the way he was trained as a police officer the day he shot and killed Michael Brown.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Do you feel any remorse?

DARREN WILSON, FERGUSON POLICE OFFICER: Everyone feels remorse when a life's lost. Like I told you before, I never wanted to take anybody's life.

LAVANDERA: In his first interview with ABC News, Darren Wilson defended his actions saying he feared for his life.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You described it as a demon.

WILSON: Uh-huh. It was a very, very intense, intense image he was presenting.

I was so shocked by the whole interaction because this escalated so quickly from a simple request to now a fight for survival.

LAVANDERA: Michael Brown's father says he is crushed by the grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Wilson. Brown's parents say Wilson's version of events doesn't add up.

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MOTHER OF MICHAEL BROWN: I don't believe a word of it. I know my son far too well that he would never do anything like that. He would never provoke anyone to do anything to him, and he wouldn't do anything to anybody. I don't believe a word of it.

MICHAEL BROWN SR., MICHAEL BROWN'S FATHER: For one, my son wouldn't -- he respected law enforcement. Two, who in their right mind would rush or charge a police officer that has his gun, you know? It sounds crazy.

LAVANDERA: Darren Wilson detailed the series of 12 shots he fired at Michael Brown and says he has a clean conscience of how he handled it all.

WILSON: I had actually seen that bullet go into his head. I saw the face that he had go blank. Everything was just blank, and when he landed, he fell face first and actually slid on his face and upper body. As he did that, his feet had come up in the air from all the momentum he had from running at me and then when he came to rest his feet then collapsed, and I knew immediately that he had passed.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And when you look back, is there anything you could have done differently that would have prevented anything from taking place?

WILSON: No.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Nothing?

WILSON: No.

LAVANDERA: Since the shooting, protesters have argued that Ferguson cops like Darren Wilson unfairly target black residents across the city, but Wilson insists the shooting had nothing to do with race.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you're absolutely convinced when you look through your heart and your mind that if Michael Brown were white, this would have gone down in exactly the same way?

WILSON: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No question?

WILSON: No question.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: And, Jake, you know, many people here in Ferguson still wondering what will become of Officer Darren Wilson and what his future will be with at the police department here.

Technically, he is still on the force and still on paid administrative leave, but as we reported over the last few days, there are talks of him resigning. All of that is still very much up in the air. We spoke with one state senator here in the state of Missouri earlier today who basically said that Darren Wilson is not welcome back here in the city of Ferguson -- Jake.

TAPPER: Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.

Coming up, so does Darren Wilson still worry about other legal actions that might be taken against him? We'll ask his attorneys, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

More now on our national lead. In his first televised interview, Police Officer Darren Wilson said he had no choice, but to shoot and kill Michael Brown and when asked whether he is haunted at all by the incident, Wilson said his conscience is clean.

But those words are not sitting well with Brown's parents. Listen to what they said on "CBS This Morning".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCSPADDEN: His conscience is clear? How could your conscience be clear even after killing somebody, even if it was an accidental death?

BROWN: And to allow the body to lie there for two hours.

MCSPADDEN: Exactly. We couldn't have my son's organs donated, you understand that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I'm joined by Jim Towey and Danielle Thompson, attorneys for Officer Wilson.

Danielle, let me start with you. What is your response to the Browns objecting to Officer Wilson saying he has a clear conscience?

DANIELLE THOMPSON, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER DARREN WILSON: With Darren's situation, he did exactly what he was trained to do. He did exactly what he was supposed to do as a police officer in that situation. No loss of life is easy and in this situation, it's especially tragic for these parents given the magnitude of the situation afterward. So, any actions or anything that Darren can say to the parents right now, it just isn't, you know, the best situation at all, just because there's nothing that they can say to comfort them.

TAPPER: Jim, I'm sure you know it's unusual for a prosecutor to present evidence before a grand jury without the suggestion, without trying to get the grand jury to indict as opposed to the way it was done in this case, which was presenting all the evidence and just letting the grand jury make a decision for itself. Have you ever worked on a case like this before where the prosecutor didn't try to lead the grand jury in one direction or another?

JAMES TOWEY, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER DARREN WILSON: Jake, I don't know that that's that unusual. What Bob McCulloch's office tried to do in this specific case was, as he promised, anyone who believed they were a potential witness was going to be allowed to speak to that grand jury.

This particular grand jury that heard this case was a seasoned grand jury. They were coming near the end of their term so they had the ability to weigh and examine how this case was presented to them because they had been sitting for almost four full months. So, the grand jury was savvy enough to know whether this case was being treated differently and I'm assuming by their decision, they did not.

What's also important to understand is that the grand jurors in this case are able to ask any question that they want at any time of any witness. So, there is a full capability for them to examine anything that they deemed to be pertinent.

TAPPER: Danielle, does Officer Wilson plan to try to reach out personally in any way to the Brown family?

THOMPSON: At this point, it's too early to tell, but at this point, it would be inappropriate given the situation.

TAPPER: Jim, I want to ask you about some of the things that Officer Wilson testified to and also what he told ABC news. Some critics have accused him of using dehumanizing language when discussing Michael Brown. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILSON: I was like a 5-year-old dealing with Hulk Hogan.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hulk Hogan?

WILSON: He was very large, very powerful man.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That moment before the second shot, you guys were staring at each other and you said there was a look in his eye like something you've never seen before. You described it as a demon.

WILSON: Uh-huh. It was a very, very intense, intense image he was presenting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Jim, as I'm sure you know, critics have seized upon the word "demon" as evidence that he dehumanized Michael Brown and that might have played a role into what happened. What do you think?

TOWEY: I don't know that he was attempting to dehumanize him, but I think he's trying to describe the face that he saw and he's one that saw it, so I would say he's in the best position to describe what he saw, and that was the term that he used.

TAPPER: Danielle, what does Officer Wilson think about all the protests happening not just in Ferguson, but from coast to coast?

THOMPSON: Especially in Ferguson, he feels it's very tragic especially because as he said before, the community of Ferguson is a close-knit community and seeing people tear down your own community and have violence in your own community is difficult for anybody to watch. But especially federally and throughout the nation right now, the main issue is that a lot of the protests have started from the police relations and race relations in the country. And unfortunately, those have been based off of misconceptions and inaccurate facts from the beginning in this case.

And in this case -- I mean, Darren didn't do anything on the basis of race. So, he feels for the community of Ferguson and nationally.

TAPPER: Jim, does Officer Wilson worry about facing federal charges? Facing a civil suit from the Brown family?

TOWEY: Well, all of that is on the table, Jake. As long as there is an open, thorough investigation you have to be concerned about it. He did meet with the Justice Department actually before he spoke with the St. Louis County grand jury and there was a very thorough interrogation of him and we have yet to hear back from them.

As for the civil suit, that will I'm sure come at its own pace.