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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ray Rice Reinstated; National Protests

Aired November 28, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A Saint Louis mall forced to turn away shoppers on one of the busiest shopping days of the year.

I'm Jim Sciutto. And this is THE LEAD.

The national lead. A national day of shopping turns into a national day of protest. Demonstrators hold up checkout lines across the country and successfully shut down a mall in Saint Louis, all in the name of Michael Brown.

And the sports lead. From poster boy to disgrace to a man in limbo, running back Ray Rice suspended for hitting his wife, is now eligible to play again. But will any team be willing to give him a shot?

Plus, it sounds like a throwaway scene in a movie. Two New York boys, their snow fort bulldozed with even more snow from a drive-by plow. But what sounds like pre-holiday hijinks took a terrifying, almost deadly turn, when those boys were trapped for hours.

Welcome to this Black Friday edition of THE LEAD. I'm Jim Sciutto, in today for Jake Tapper. So much good and so much bad has played out in Saint Louis County this week. Protests over Michael Brown's death and a grand jury's refusal to indict his shooter sparked outrage and a flurry of both violence and civil disobedience from coast to coast.

And now protesters are butting up against police again inside one of the Saint Louis area's most popular malls.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is outside the Saint Louis Galleria Mall.

Ed, we're hearing reports just now in these recent moments of stores closing altogether inside that mall because of new protests. What have you seen there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we got here a short while ago. It sounds like right now that the mall is closed. We have tried to get inside and various National Guard members and police officers tell us that it's closed.

But we have also been told that the mall is probably going to reopen. We're waiting for official confirmation. But right here, police guarding the entrances into the mall. And that's because several hundred protesters showed up here at the Galleria Mall in Saint Louis and started chanting and marching through various parts of the mall.

And about 1:00 Central time, there was a bulletin sent out to all of the stores inside the mall telling them to close down their shops. We spoke with several employees inside the mall who said that at times it started to get rather agitated.

And one employee told us, Jim, that at one point the protesters were going to start throwing chairs throughout the food court area. That's when the National Guard soldiers and police officers moved in and really clamped down on the situation. It's all come to a halt now inside the mall. It is quiet.

But I think officials here are still assessing the situation. And we're still awaiting word on whether or not the mall is going to reopen. We have been told here, as I mentioned, on the ground by people outside of the mall that it sounded like it was supposed to open in the next 10, 15 minutes or so. We still haven't seen that happen, as the guards in the parking lot here are turning away people. We have mostly seen just people leaving the mall.

But it's incredibly desolate inside, very quiet now, after this disruption here this afternoon -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: And looking at some of the pictures, and we have had people laying down on the ground there, I think that's been described as a die-in? Can you describe to our viewers exactly how they were demonstrating there?

LAVANDERA: Well, various people we have spoken to said that there were various groups that kind of came together. At some point, they were marching through various parts of the mall and then started lying down in various parts of the mall as they continued their -- the chanting and the protesting inside the area.

They said it started -- various people we spoke with said that it started off peacefully, but then it started to become more and more agitated as it grew, as the crowd grew larger and larger. And you saw at one point, as I mentioned, one of the employees said that there was talk that somebody people wanted to start throwing the chairs and cause disruption there in the food court area.

And that's when the National Guard soldiers moved in, clamped down and started dispersing the crowd.

SCIUTTO: Right, several hundred people inside there. It's a real change, as these last couple days, it's been a bit more quiet than people expected.

Thanks very much to Ed Lavandera. He's outside the Saint Louis Galleria Mall.

That die-in staged in that mall is only one demonstration, a series of actions holding up shoppers really around the Saint Louis area.

CNN's Jason Carroll. He is live in Ferguson outside a Wal-Mart store there.

Jason, you have also seen some demonstrations. There have been some word that things were quieting down. Now you have several hundred people at this Saint Louis mall. What's the situation where you are there? Have stores been forced to close there and how are police responding?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, things here have been relatively quiet, as they were last night and the night before.

And authorities are hoping things will remain quiet tonight. That remains to be seen. In the meantime, protesters are saying they want their economic voices to be heard.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): Protesters blocked by police at the West County Mall in a suburb of Saint Louis as the so-called Blackout Friday gets under way, the motto of demonstrators, no justice, no profits.

Dozens descended on a target in Saint Louis, calling on shoppers not to buy in support of Michael Brown, and it wasn't just Target. Several Wal-Marts throughout the city saw protests as well, the National Guard showing up at this one in Ferguson, blocking the entrance to the parking lot. Doors did not open until 8:00 a.m., but, when they did, shoppers did show, some saying the idea of a blackout may be misguided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a lose-win situation, kind of.

CARROLL (on camera): How so?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How so? Us shopping on Black Friday is not going to bring any justice to the whole situation anyway. I think we have to come up with some better ideas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To me, it's disgusting. And...

CARROLL: And what part is disgusting?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The looting, the protesting, if it's not peaceful, it's just not right what they're doing. And everything is boarded up. It just looks like a ghost town.

CARROLL (voice-over): Protesters here kept their distance from the Wal-Mart entrance. One of them who came from Wisconsin talked about the need to target retailers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Black lives matter more than Black Friday. We give thanks one day and then the next day, we will trample each other for a $50 TV. So all lives matter. Black lives matter.

CARROLL: Michael Brown supporters using social media to raise awareness and spread the word under the Twitter hashtag #BlackoutBlackFriday. Hundreds gathered in front of Macy's in New York this afternoon

holding signs that read, "Out the stores" and "Time to act," supporters calling it a racial and economic rally.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: So what's next for protesters? The NAACP is planning the Journey for Justice.

And, Jim, that's going to take place tomorrow at the Canfield Green apartments, where Michael Brown was shot. Protesters plan to march 120 miles over the next seven days to the governor's residence in Jefferson City. They say what they're calling for is new leadership here in Ferguson, including at the Ferguson Police Department -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: After a couple of quiet days, looks like it's getting hot again. Thanks very much to Jason Carroll. He's live in Ferguson.

Well, much of that stretch on West Florissant avenue between Chambers and Lucas Hunt burned Monday night. Many of those stores and buildings now sit behind ropes of yellow caution tape turned into active crime scenes.

Stephanie Elam is there on West Florissant and got a look, as some owners were finally allowed back into their stores for the first time.

Stephanie, when were business owners first allowed back in the area? And I know you have talked to them. What did they find when they went back?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's just today. If you think about this happening Monday night, Jim, this is just now. This strip where we are just now just now opening at 1:00 local time today.

But it's not open for good. It's only going to be open for four hours today and they're going to shut it down overnight. Residents who need to get through, they will allow them to do that. But really what you're looking at is the first time that people are really making their way through here.

And you can see some business owners are here down on the strip. There's also something else that you will see here. And that's a police presence. And they are out here. They want you to know that they can see you. They are visible throughout the strip behind the yellow caution tape here.

But, as you can see, you can take a look at these burned-out buildings. A lot of companies for the first time, the business owners are getting to see this for the first time in the light of day, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You just think of those images from that night just a few nights ago, the flames and so on, and now the aftermath still very visible. Stephanie Elam, thanks very much from Ferguson. As authorities, both local and federal, continue to sort through

that debris, just how does a town so beset by violence and strife go about the business of moving on? Is Ferguson even ready to move on?

I want to go to Democratic Committeewoman Patricia Bynes. She represents Ferguson.

Committeewoman Bynes, thanks very much for joining us today.

PATRICIA BYNES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI, DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEEWOMAN: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, before we look ahead, I do want to ask your view of how the police handled the violence and the demonstrations on Monday and Tuesday night. Do you think the police, the National Guard as well, did they do their job in protecting your city?

BYNES: Clearly absolutely not.

There were plans in place that called out a state of emergency prior to anything even happening. And then they weren't even in place. I watched some police officers just watch some looting and some started some fires take place. So, I'm extremely frustrated.

And we're going to have to have some accountability as far as asking the questions, who was in charge, and because the negligence that was shown in my community, we have to get down to the bottom of that. So, that's definitely at the top of the list.

SCIUTTO: How do you strike that balance? Because, of course, in August, the criticism was of an overreaction, right, that military response that we talked about so much. And some of the criticism earlier this week was really about an under-reaction, right, kind of letting the violence carry on. What would you have liked to have seen a couple of days ago?

BYNES: Well, I was not in charge of making the decision of calling a state of emergency.

But if you call the state of emergency and there's nothing taking place, you expect a reaction. You need to be prepared and have the National Guard in place to react. And it was very sad. And I'm extremely disappointed about what I saw. I actually just came down West Florissant for the first time. And I cried, because I could not believe what I have been seeing.

So we're going to have to move forward. And I hope that this is the end of this rioting.

SCIUTTO: And that's fair. And I know that people there want to go back to their lives, particularly in the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas coming up.

I wonder about this, though, because we have been looking at a lot of these protests. The last couple of days, the numbers at some of these protests were a bit disappointing. To be fair, just in the last hour or so, we have seen evidence of another demonstration at the Galleria Mall in Saint Louis, perhaps a couple of hundred people there.

But are you concerned at all that the peak of attention to this and public support for what happened in Ferguson, that it's fading a bit? Are you concerned about that? And do you see some of that in the numbers of people who are turning out to support these protests?

BYNES: Well, one, it is a holiday time. Two, we need to make a very clear distinction when we're talking about what's taking place.

There's a big difference in between protesting and looting and rioting. Huge difference. And what we need to do now in order to move forward -- and this just came about through a social media conversation -- it's time to come to the table as a region and have a very frank and candid conversation about the underlying issues, because the protesting is not going to stop until we start solving these issues.

And the underlying issues that need to be tackled are issues of racism, community policing. We have an education issue that we need to tackle. And until we start talking about this, jobs, employment, people being able to own businesses, this protesting is not going to stop. It's time for the frank conversations.

SCIUTTO: That's a great point, I have to say, Patricia Bynes, focus on things that are going to make a difference, not necessarily just the most visible thing.

We appreciate you coming on today, particularly just after the holiday, Committeewoman Patricia Bynes from Ferguson, Missouri.

BYNES: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: For the Brown family, this holiday was the first without their son. An empty chair was placed at their table in memory of Michael Brown. And his father wore a shirt emblazoned with the word "Justice."

So, how do they plan to get justice and where they do go from here? I'm going to ask a representative for the family right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

And continuing our national lead, in the case of Michael Brown, it is easy to be consumed by the images of protesters or caught up in the debate over police profiling or the alleged use of excessive force. But when you peel away all those layers, you are reminded that at the core is a family mourning over the loss of a son. Michael Brown's mother says she couldn't imagine celebrating Thanksgiving without her son, but she had to. And yesterday, the family released this picture of themselves sitting at their dinner table with an empty chair in Michael's honor. What's clear is that the Brown family believes the justice system

failed them when a grand jury decided not to indict Officer Darren Wilson in Michael's death. Still, they insist this is not where their story will end.

I'm joined now by Brown family attorney Anthony Gray who is in St. Louis.

Mr. Gray, thanks very much for joining us today.

ANTHONY GRAY, CO-COUNSEL, MICHAEL BROWN FAMILY: No problem, Jim.

SCIUTTO: We talk about next steps for the family. One of them being the possibility of a civil case against Officer Wilson. Has the family made a decision yet whether they're going to pursue a civil case?

GRAY: They have not authorized the filing of a lawsuit yet. They are open for discussions and that is certainly on the table in terms of the totality of options that they can consider. Right now, we're hopeful that the federal investigation will continue its probe, take a look at the evidence in kind of a different way, we're hopeful, and that we will wait to see what they decide before we begin to really make that heavy decision about what direction we go civilly.

SCIUTTO: So, you're saying that you haven't given up for steps being taken in the criminal path?

GRAY: We have not given up. We know that there's a federal probe out there. When you look at the witness statements, the family hasn't given up. At the end of the day, there is a strong belief that Mike Brown Jr. did not have to die the way he died on Canfield on August 9th. And that -- his death and the way it happened to them was criminal. And so they want a thorough and criminal investigation on the federal side just like they attempted to do on the state side.

SCIUTTO: Another initiative that the family has talked about a lot because they have said repeatedly they want to deny other parents what they have gone through, is the suggestion of a Michael Brown law that would require police to wear a camera so that events like this are recorded. What is the status on that? How aggressively are they pursuing that?

GRAY: Well, they're not spearheading that. That's a campaign that we're hoping that will be driven by legislators. We have just basically put the concept and the idea out there in the political domain. So, they won't be actively pursuing that individually. We're hopeful the political groups will begin to latch onto that concept and drive it to the legislation for them.

SCIUTTO: We know that Michael Brown's parents, they also took their case to the United Nations a few weeks, traveling all the way to Geneva and Switzerland, speaking out against police brutality. Now, today, the U.N. Committee Against Torture responded to that testimony saying that it has to respect the decisions of authorities not to prosecute. Is the family aware of the U.N.'s remarks? And I wonder if they were disappointed at all by what they have heard out of Geneva?

GRAY: They have not commented to me about that. And to be honest with you, Jim, I haven't heard that statement. I'm not surprised by it. Anything, like I told you before, short of holding this officer accountable for their child's death I'm sure would not be pleasant for them to hear.

SCIUTTO: Understood. And to be fair, I don't want to give the misimpression here because the U.N. also said that they believe this case should be investigated thoroughly so they did -- they referenced larger issues with how African-Americans are treated by law enforcement, I want to make that clear.

GRAY: OK.

SCIUTTO: If I can before I let you go, does the family have anything planned to keep the momentum going around this movement, particularly with the holiday season on us? In the last couple of days, we saw some of the numbers dwindling at some of the protests. How does the family plan to keep the attention focused on their son's case going forward?

GRAY: Well, they're going to do just the basic, you know, get out there in front of the various audiences and perpetuate the campaign for justice for their son. And they're also going to maintain their position that they want to do so peacefully and nonviolently. So, short of just getting out there and keeping the word strong from their standpoint through the various venues that they visit, beyond that, there is no overall strategic plan to keep a full- fledged campaign going at this point.

SCIUTTO: Mr. Gray, we want to convey to you but also to the Brown family, our thoughts are with them these holidays. No one wants to spend a holiday without their child. As a father, I know that. So thanks for joining us today.

GRAY: Sure. No problem, Jim. You have a great day.

SCIUTTO: You, too.

Coming up next, concern over police killings, extending beyond Ferguson, even beyond the country's borders. Now, the United Nations, as we mentioned, is weighing in on police shootings here in the U.S. That is next.

Plus, the fourth search in less than six years. President Obama once again looking for a defense secretary. Why are some potential nominees saying, thank you, but no thanks?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

The world lead -- these images of the fury in Ferguson aren't just being seen across our country. Friends and foes of the United States are forming their own opinions, perhaps scoring a few political points around the world. As we noted in our last segment, even the United Nations is now responding. And while a U.N. panel tasked with investigating torture said it respects the grand jury decision, there was still plenty of finger-wagging at America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): One hundred and eleven days since Michael Brown's death made Ferguson infamous around the globe, now the United Nations is raising its voice as well.

JENS MODVIG, U.N. COMMITTEE AGAINST TORTURE: We have certain concerns about whether punishment of law enforcement -- when they have crossed the line, are actually, effectively put in place.

SCIUTTO: Tensions between U.S. law enforcement and minority groups made their way from the St. Louis suburbs all the way to Geneva today, where the U.N.'s Committee on Torture made its own concerns clear.

ALESSIO BRUNI, U.N. COMMITTEE AGAINST TORTURE: Deep concern at the frequent police shootings of unarmed black individuals.

SCIUTTO: Earlier this month, Michael Brown's family had addressed the committee, urging it not to dismiss what they were seeing.

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: We need justice, we need answers and we need action, and we have to bring it to the U.N. so that they can expose it to the rest of the world what's going on in small town Ferguson.

POLICE: Leave the area, disperse!

SCIUTTO: The Brown family argued that in their son's death and in the protests that followed, Ferguson officials violated the U.N.'s convention against torture and other cruel or degrading treatment or punishment. Today, the U.N. responded with its recommendations.

BRUNI: We recommend that the instance of police brutality and excessive use of force by law enforcement officers are investigated promptly, effectively and impartially.

SCIUTTO: This is not the first time the committee has urged a democratic nation to review its police more carefully. In recent years, the Netherlands responded to U.N. concerns over police in Aruba by setting up an internal investigation bureau there. Other nations such as Portugal and the Czech Republic amended their penal codes after U.N. scrutiny.

And here in the U.S.?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We welcome the scrutiny of the world because what you see in America is a country that has steadily worked to address our problems, to make our union more perfect.

SCIUTTO: President Obama acknowledged international criticism when he addressed the U.N. in September.

OBAMA: Yes, we have our own racial and ethnic tensions.

SCIUTTO: Those racial tensions were underscored yet again when a Missouri grand jury voted not to indict Officer Darren Wilson for Michael Brown's death.

Worldwide reaction came very quickly, first from the U.N.'s High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein, who urged American authorities to, quote, "conduct in-depth examinations into how race-related issues are affecting law enforcement."

And apparently unaware of the irony, no less than Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, tweeted, "We don't seek to gain the confidence of the U.S. We don't need that. We don't trust you. Your people do not trust you either. #Ferguson."