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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Maryland Congressman Chris Van Hollen; Interview With Florida Senator Marco Rubio; Movie Terror; U.S. and Cuba to Restore Diplomatic Ties; World Reacts to New U.S.-Cuban Relations

Aired December 17, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: There are literally generations of Americans, including me, who do not know what normal relations with Cuba are like. Beginning today, welcome to a whole new hemisphere.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The world lead: An American family is whole again after Cuba releases an American prisoner. President Obama announces a major shift in once-frigid Cold War era relations. Just who is Alan Gross and did the U.S. hand the Castros a murderer in exchange?

And should we be lighting a now perfectly legal cigar over a deal with a brutal dictator and a state sponsor of terror? Not everyone thinks so. Many Cuban-Americans, presidential hopefuls, others are not celebrating today.

The national lead. Thousands of movie theaters abandoning Sony after hackers threaten to attack moviegoers who just want to check out the new Seth Rogen flick. Now some in Hollywood are saying if you skip that matinee, you are letting the terrorists win.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin this afternoon, of course, with our world lead, an earthquake in American foreign policy. And after 50 years of diplomatic backbiting, human rights abuses, espionage and attempted invasion, even a crisis bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war, the United States and Cuba may now be moving toward something resembling normal.

President Obama said today that things in Havana will start to look a lot like things in every other capital around the globe, a functional U.S. Embassy, credit cards that work, a potential influx of American tourists. The announcement was tied to the celebratory announcement that this man, Alan Gross, is now home.

Gross, an American USAID contractor imprisoned by the Castro government since 2009, reunited with his wife this morning, flown back to the United States. After the pilot announced that they had left Cuban airspace, Gross stood. He took a deep breath and then he telephoned his two daughters. "I'm free," he told them.

And on this, the first day of Hanukkah, Gross celebrated by having potato pancakes, or latkes, and a also corned beef on rye with mustard.

Let's go to CNN global affairs correspondent Elise Labott.

Elise, bringing Alan Gross home obviously central to today's news, but what else pushed President Obama to act?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Jake, that President Obama took office looking to engage Cuba. He felt this was the moment now because of some modest changes that are happening on the island and also because it was hurting U.S. policy in the region.

Now the State Department saying Secretary of State John Kerry wants to be the first secretary to go to Cuba in more than 50 years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT (voice-over): U.S. contractor Alan Gross on American soil, with his release, a historic opening of U.S. relations with Cuba after five decades of confrontation.

Seeing the American flag for the first time in five years, a frail Gross was overcome. His toothless smile offered the untold story of the toll his captivity took on his body.

ALAN GROSS, FREED FROM CUBAN PRISON: What a blessing it is to be a citizen of this country. And thank you, President Obama, for everything that you have done today and leading up to today.

LABOTT: Before dawn, a team of U.S. officials and lawmakers boarded a U.S. government plane for Havana to pick up Gross.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the airplane back, as we finally crossed into U.S. airspace, you saw him give a big hoorah, put his arms up. He was clearly glad to be home.

LABOTT: Some tweeted photos of Gross on a joyful reunion, from Secretary of State John Kerry, a hug on arrival. Gross' humanitarian release was accompanied by a spy swap. On another plane, out of sight from cameras, a highly important U.S. intelligence source held by Cuba for 20 years was flown to the U.S. His identity is secret for the information he provided to the U.S. on a shadowy network that spied on Cuban-American exiles and U.S. military bases.

Three of those spies held for more than a decade were released by the U.S. and sent back to Cuba, part of the so-called Cuban Five. The nation's top spy agency called the deal -- quote -- "a fitting closure to the Cold War tensions between the two countries."

President Obama took office promising to engage Cuba. Today, he followed through.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These 50 years have shown that isolation has not worked. It's time for a new approach.

LABOTT: As part of the deal, the U.S. will restore diplomatic ties with Cuba with embassies in Washington and Havana, increased travel between the U.S. and Cuba, allow business between U.S. and Cuban banks, including the use of credit cards by American travelers, permit more exports to Cuba to support business, and allow Americans to import some Cuban goods, including Cuban alcohol and cigars.

In a rare address that aired at the same time President Obama spoke, Raul Castro welcomed the landmark deal.

RAUL CASTRO, CUBAN PRESIDENT (through translator): This expression by President Obama deserves the respect and recognition by our people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT: Officials say this is not a reward for the Castro regime, but they say a recognition the embargo is not working. If the U.S. wants to change Cuba, it needs to engage more with the Cuban government and the Cuban people.

Jake, officials tell me that as part of this deal, Cuba has agreed to release 53 Cuban political prisoners from a list provided by the U.S., allow more access to some of the prisoners in jail by the ICRC and the U.N. and also allow more Internet freedom.

So the U.S. say this is a start, they will not let up on human rights, but today, obviously, a big day.

TAPPER: We will see. I was in the room when Alan Gross spoke and the very first thing he did was he touched the American flag. It was a very nice moment. It was good to have him back.

Elise Labott, thank you so much.

The dramatic shift of course marks a long evolution for President Obama. In 2004, he said he wanted to end the embargo. In 2008, he said he would keep it in place, but since June 2013, according to senior administration officials the president has been working quietly to ease relations with the Castros.

We saw a potential signal at Nelson Mandela's funeral. President Obama and President Castro gripped and grinned. And now we have this, a White House photo of the president hammering out final details of this agreement, with Raul Castro on the other end of the line.

Joining me now to react to the announcement, Republican Senator from Florida Marco Rubio.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Thanks.

TAPPER: I know you're happy that Alan Gross is home and back with his family, but you say the president is making a mistake. What is the mistake?

RUBIO: The mistake has to do with the unilateral concessions to the Cuban government. Let's run through the list of it, full diplomatic relations. That

means a recognition of the Cuban government's legitimacy. Opening up the banking sector, more telecommunications, higher remittances, a whole series of things that truly undermine the sanctions regime that is place against the Cuban government for being a tyranny.

So, in exchange for that, what do we get? Here's what the Cuban people get; 53 political prisoners are going to be set free, people that shouldn't even be in jail to begin with, but, remember, if they join up the cause of democracy, they will be right back in jail.

And the United Nations has agreed to more closely monitor conditions on the ground in Cuba.

TAPPER: OK.

RUBIO: And that's a terrible -- that's a terrible arrangement for democracy and the Cuban people.

TAPPER: Well, as President Obama says -- and it's a factual matter -- the embargo has been in place for more than a half-century, longer than either one of us has been alive, and the Castro regime is still in power. Why not try something new?

RUBIO: I agree we should try something new.

That's something we should be to -- be even more serious about imposing a cost on the Cuban government for being a tyranny. For example, last year, the Cuban government -- this has not been well- covered. The Cuban government last year helped North Korea try to evade U.N. sanctions.

They had a ship that left Havana with a bunch of banned material that was seized during the Panama Canal. The Cubans were helping North Korea evade U.N. sanctions. The United States government did nothing about that. And back in 1996, the Cuban government murdered American citizens that were flying over the straits of Florida, international waters...

TAPPER: Right.

RUBIO: ... trying to help rescue people. We have not indicted the people that have done that.

And as far as this argument that nothing's worked, I think people fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of these sanctions today. The purpose of the sanctions today, as opposed to back during the Cold War, is, it serves as leverage, so that you go to a Cuban government and you say, as the law already does, it's been codified, if you open up democratically, if you start to make real democratic progress in Cuba, the sanctions will go away.

That's real leverage, especially with a successor government to the Castro one, when new leadership takes over, which won't be long from now. All of that is virtually gone now, for the most part.

TAPPER: Right.

So -- but let me ask you, Senator. The White House press secretary today said that if there was an opportunity for the president to visit Cuba, he wouldn't turn it down. And I'm wondering what your response is to that.

RUBIO: Well, just think about what message does that send if you are a dissident on the island of Cuba.

Imagine, for example, the Ladies in White. This is a group of women who fight -- every Sunday go to mass dressed in white and afterward march down the street in silent protest, sometimes not silent protest, for the tyrannical nature of this regime.

They are summarily, systematically and regularly beaten, jailed. They're harassed during the week by the Cuban government. Imagine how they feel now to know that Barack Obama has fully embraced the Cuban government and would visit there, and as to further legitimize that.

What does that say for people who are fighting for freedom and liberty in Cuba and resisting the tyranny right now?

TAPPER: But what does it say that we have diplomatic relations with China?

RUBIO: I agree.

TAPPER: What does it say that we have diplomatic relations with Vietnam or with Saudi Arabia? Is the Cuban government worse than these other regimes that we have ties to?

RUBIO: That's a great point. No, that's a great point. And let me tell you the differences.

Number one, I agree. I was aghast that the president went to China earlier this year, and in order not to jeopardize his climate deal that he had signed with them said nothing about democracy protests in Hong Kong.

I was aghast that Hillary Clinton visited there last year and said they weren't going to let human rights get in the way of our relationship with China. I agree. And to go further, I would say the reality is that, at a certain level, there is a big difference between China and Cuba, in the sense that the reality is China is now by some estimates the largest economy in the world. They have ICBMs and nuclear weapons.

They're trying to dominate the Pacific region. There's a big difference between that and an island in the Caribbean of 13 million people. So, there are geopolitical realities that we have to deal with.

But Cuba is a place that we can make a real difference, a big-time difference. And I think that the fact that the president has done this without anything in return when it comes to democracy is terrible. TAPPER: All right, Senator Marco Rubio, thanks and happy holidays to

you, sir.

RUBIO: Thank you. Happy holidays.

TAPPER: Let's bring in someone with a very different perspective, Democratic Congressman from Maryland Chris Van Hollen, who made the trip to Cuba to bring back Alan Gross. He was also part of a U.S. congressional delegation that met with Cuban President Raul Castro to discuss the Gross case last year.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: Good to be with you.

TAPPER: Before we get to the policy, you were on the plane to go and get him. At what point were you confident, oh, my God, we are actually going to pull this off, or were you just nervous the whole time that it was just going to be ruined?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I have been very nervous over the last couple days that something would go wrong, Jake, because so many different pieces had to come together to make this happen.

We have been working for five years to try and get Alan Gross' release. His wife, Judy, has spent every day in this effort. And so, you know, it ain't over until it's over. It really wasn't until after we walked out of the building onto the tarmac in Havana, climbed onto the president's airplane heading home that I was really able to breathe a sigh of relief. And I'm sure that's true for Alan and his wife.

TAPPER: He showed remarkable composure. I was at the press conference he had earlier today.

VAN HOLLEN: Yes.

TAPPER: But I have to ask you about the policy, sir, because Cuba is the most restrictive country in the Western Hemisphere. They jail dissident bloggers. They jail political protesters.

The Castros have persecuted gays and lesbians for decades. How do you respond to the charge that what the president announced today is basically appeasement for a bad, bad regime?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, what the president announced today is not for the Cuban government or regime.

It's actually to change our strategy to Cuba, which has been a total failure over 55 years. We heard Senator Rubio talk about the fact that the embargo and sanctions provided leverage for change in Cuba. Show me the change. The reality is that the Castro brothers have now survived more than eight U.S. presidents and the policy of isolation has actually helped sustain this regime.

So I believe and Alan Gross believes, after spending five years in Cuban prison, that the way actually to provide the Cuban people with more opportunity is to have more engagement, more communication, more travel, more trade. That's the way to open up a society, not to try and create a wall, which clearly has not accomplished our own stated goals.

TAPPER: Right. But what -- let's talk about the swap, though. Your fellow Democrat Senator Bob Menendez says -- quote -- "Trading Mr. Gross for three convicted criminals sets an extremely dangerous precedent. It invites dictatorial and rogue regimes to use Americans serving overseas as bargaining chips." He added that the policy shift is misguided.

Is he wrong?

VAN HOLLEN: Actually, the prisoner swap was the Cuban three...

TAPPER: Right.

VAN HOLLEN: ... for a Cuban national who was a U.S. intelligence asset who had provided the United States national security agencies with very important information about Cuban spies operating within the United States government.

What sends a really bad signal is when we leave the people who help us to rot in jail for their entire life. This guy was -- had already served 25 to 30 years in a Cuban jail. And he was going to die in a Cuban jail. What kind of signal does that send, Jake, to people who were hoping to help us and help our national security overseas? So that was the swap.

Alan Gross was a contractor. He wasn't part of the spy swap.

TAPPER: Right.

VAN HOLLEN: And we were able to bring him home. That is a good thing, and Alan Gross is not only thrilled to be free and home. He is also a believer that the president's new policy will be good for the Cuban people. Not for the Cuban regime, for the Cuban people.

TAPPER: Right. Well, we're all glad that Alan Gross is home and we are glad this intelligence asset is safe, as well.

Congressman Van Hollen, thank you so much.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

TAPPER: After this historic announcement, there were cheers in Cuba and also chants calling President Obama a traitor in Miami. The reaction on the streets from Havana to Little Havana live. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We continue now with our world lead. There has been praise and anger over the announcement of a dramatic change in the U.S.-Cuban relationship.

CNN's Patrick Oppmann is the only news network correspondent reporting live from Cuba right now. He's with us from Havana.

Patrick, what's been the reaction on the streets there?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mostly a reaction of joy. It was somewhat surreal, Jake. We knew early this morning once the announcement came out in Washington that this monumental change was going to take place, but here in Cuba where the government controls all media, basically, it was until noon Raul Castro took to the airwaves in a rather unusual announcement, talking respect that he feels towards President Obama, thanking President Obama and Pope Francis for working to ink this deal. It wasn't then until we really saw Cubans celebrating, some were crying.

We heard some people who are not pleased, dissidents who feel their concerns will now be overlooked. But by and large, most people here whether they support the government or don't just want to have a closer relationship with the U.S. and their family. You know, at noon when the announcement was being made, we heard church bells ring all over Havana. For many people, this was a historic day and if not the end of the U.S. embargo, certainly the beginning of the end, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. CNN's Patrick Oppmann, live in Havana, Cuba, thank you so much.

CNN correspondent Alina Machado is in little Havana, a neighborhood in Miami. She's live, as well.

Where are -- where people are outraged by today's announcement, Alina. What are folks there saying?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we've heard a little bit of everything here. We've been here all day and to give you a sense of where we are. We are in Little Havana, as you mentioned, in front of Versailles Cafe, which is a place where Cubans traditionally gather every time there's something that goes on with Cuba. And you see those police cars right there, they're here, they're helping direct traffic because people are slowing down looking at the crowd that has gathered here. And that has pretty much been here all day.

Walk with me over here. You can see there's an American flag. There's also people holding the Cuban flag, and there is a protester over there holding a sign saying, "Fire Obama". Those are the protesters who have been most vocal at this location, people who are upset about the policies. But I also have heard from people who are OK with it and say that maybe this is a good step in the right direction.

So, Jake, we've heard a little bit of everything here.

TAPPER: All right. Alina Machado, reporting live from Little Havana in Miami -- thanks. Joining me to discuss the impact of this monumental shift in U.S.- Cuban relations is Jeffrey Goldberg, national correspondent for "The Atlantic", who is the last American journalist who interviewed Raul Castro; Julia Sweig, director for Latin-American studies at the Council on Foreign Relations; and Mike Gonzalez, an expert on Cuba who lived there for 12 years.

President Obama vowed to engage rogue nations like Cuba each before his presidency began.

Take a listen to the president's response before he became president when he was asked about meeting with countries like Cuba in the 2007 presidential debate right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, THEN-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would and the reason is this that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration is ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, it's not as if this is u unexpected before he became president, Mike.

MIKE GONZALEZ, SENIOR FELLOW, INTL. STUDIES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Look, there's no question that has been on his bucket list for a long time. This is -- he sees this as part of his legacy. He's now -- he will not have another encounter with the American people at the ballot box, he's been liberated. So, he's going to do whatever he wants.

There is a question for Congress here. The Helms-Burton Act of 1996 says very clearly, that lifting the embargo is solely the responsibility of Congress. Obama cannot act on his own.

Now, we know that he likes to act on his own, but we will see what the reaction of Congress is, also appointing an ambassador and any senator can put a hold on that. They can delay spending on the embassy. Congress should take a leading role here now.

TAPPER: So, Julia, this isn't a done deal. I mean, President Obama can say what he wants and he's lifting this and he's allowing that, but at the end of the day, is it possible that in two years, we'll be here and nothing really would have changed?

JULIA SWEIG, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: No, I don't think we'll be looking back two years from now saying, oh, that was just a flash in the pan. He has the executive authority to do all of the things that he said he was going to do today, the diplomatic relations, the flexibilization of travel without lifting the travel ban, without going to Congress to undo legislation or pass new legislation, he's going to start a process of removing Cuba from the terrorist lists, of allowing Americans to invest in the small business community growing there, all of that with his executive authority. TAPPER: What about -- what about what Mike said about it's the

responsibility of Congress to lift the embargo?

SWEIG: Well, this is a perennial debate about who has the foreign policy authority in this country, isn't it? And it is true that, as Mike says, in order to lift the embargo, in order to nullify Helms- Burton, that will require an act of Congress. But when Helms-Burton passed, it left into law some flexibility for that presidential authority which we see him clearly prepared to exercise.

He also said he wants to consult with Congress, but I think we know with the Republican majority in the next two years, this is the legacy-grabbing moment for this president.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTIC: More than discuss it with Congress, I think he was inviting in his comments a debate. Look, he's a free man. He's not running for anything anymore, and I think he understands that the polling has shown that this issue doesn't resonate with Americans the way it used to. I think he thinks he has a winning issue. It's very, very easy for him to make the argument to the American people that we should have relations with Cuba, the same way we have relations with Vietnam, China and other oppressive regimes.

TAPPER: Let's talk about whether or not it's going to work. Jeffrey, you were there in March? Is that --

GOLDBERG: The last time I was there was in this March, yes.

TAPPER: So, do you think that this will actually help bring freedom and democracy and human rights to Cuba?

GOLDBERG: You know, there's a strong possibility that that is true. I wouldn't want to say yes, of course, because the government has a vested interest there in maintaining one-party rule. However, it is a small country, 11 million people that lives right underneath an incredibly large and powerful country with huge cultural influences and huge business influences. It's going to be very hard to stop the flood of information and the flood of goods once it starts.

TAPPER: Mike?

GONZALEZ: We do have $1 trillion worth of business with China every year. It is the second biggest trading partner. The Chinese are not free. Bao Tong, the Nobel Peace Prize, is in prison. China bullies Hong Kong and puts anybody who speaks their mind in prison.

What we have done now, what Obama has done, he's thrown a landline to a regime who was on the ropes because the sugar daddy, Venezuela, does not get money now because of the plunging oil prices and because socialism is inane, and Venezuela has run its economy into the ground.

TAPPER: Let me have Julia have the last word.

SWEIG: What I want to say is the question is, is this going to work?

TAPPER: Right.

SWEIG: What is -- what is the objective? I think that we can reasonably say that Cuba is becoming and because of the inflexion of American presidents, will become a more open society. Will there be a multiparty democracy there the day after tomorrow, or two years from now? I think we should be very circumspect about that.

It is a one-party ruled country. It is a very closed media environment. But all of that in the last five years has become more fluid, and I believe that it will become more so now.

GONZALEZ: It is a police state that will continue to use terror to get its way. We are -- Obama is trying to do business with a dictator who beats up middle-aged women walking down the street. This is shameful.

TAPPER: All right. Jeffrey Goldberg, Julia Sweig, and Mike Gonzalez, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Very different views, lots of passions on this issue.

President Obama dropped another bombshell today. He revealed that the Cubans also freed a top-secret agent working for America who has been imprisoned in Cuba for two decades. Who is this man the president called the most important spy we ever sent to Cuba. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)