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The Lead with Jake Tapper

FBI Traces Sony Hacking To North Korea; Clooney Slams Hollywood For Folding; Steve Carell Film Set In North Korea Shelved; Obama Touts Immigration Reform, Economy, Cuba Deal

Aired December 19, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: And as they went, they were eliminating other potential suspects, including China, Iran, Russia, but ultimately leading right back to North Korea.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): The blame has been dealt. The U.S. now calling out North Korea, naming the rogue nation publicly as responsible for the Sony hack. In a statement today, the FBI said, quote, "The destructive nature of this attack, coupled with its coercive nature, sets it apart."

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot have a society in which some dictator some place can start imposing censorship here in the United States.

SCIUTTO: The hackers sent investigators on a worldwide chase, routing the attack through servers ranging from countries in Asia including China, then Europe and Latin America. Some servers in the U.S. were even used. Still, the NSA and FBI were able to track the attack back to North Korea and its government.

JIM LEWIS, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Think of this as dirty tricks on a global scale. This has exceeded their expectations. They always make threats. Most people shrug off the threats and so threatening a cyber 9/11, the film is dead, they must be incredibly happy in Pyongyang.

SCIUTTO: Now that the country behind those damaging keystrokes has been identified, the administration is looking at how to respond.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: They caused a lot of damage and we will respond. We will respond proportionally, and we'll respond in a place and time, and manner that we choose.

SCIUTTO: The U.S. could impose sanctions on North Korea's prized military complex. And further economic sanctions, including applying even tighter restrictions on Pyongyang's access to dollar-denominated trade, the state's lifeline to fuel food and crucially weapons, but still U.S. officials are not yet calling the hack an act of terror or war.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT PRESS SECRETARY: The cyber domain remains challenging, very fluid, part of the reason why it's such a challenging domain for us is because there aren't internationally accepted norms and protocols. That's something that we here in the Defense Department have been certainly arguing for.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: The president today unyielding in his response and encouraging America and American businesses to be unyielding as well, not to be cowed by attacks like this. But the real challenge is going to be defense.

You know, tens of billions of dollars lost every year from cyber-attacks emanating from just China, just China alone. That's over a number of years and the country have not figured out a way to defend very well, partly it's cost, partly, it's difficult to do.

And partly it's getting the cooperation right between the private sector and the government, that's one thing that Senator Dianne Feinstein mentioned to you. They are trying to correct with legislation. It's going to take some time.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You heard her frustration, six years. Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

Now we know how the U.S. traced the cyber-attack to North Korea. But how did the hackers pull it off? Bruce Klingner worked as the CIA's deputy division chief and monitored North and South Korea. He joins me now.

Bruce, just to be frank here, North Korea's not exactly known for being sophisticated when it comes to data mining and anything having to do with hardware or software. Do you think, as the president suggested, that they are capable of doing this without the help of China or another country?

BRUCE KLINGNER, FORMER CIA DEPUTY DIVISION CHIEF FOR KOREA: Very much so. There is the perception of North Korea as a technologically backward nation. If you've seen the nighttime photos of North Korea, seems to be no electricity emanating.

But they actually have a very extensive cyber warrior capability. We've had defectors from a unit called "Unit 121" or "Bureau 121." There may be 3,000 of these cyber warriors in a unit subordinate to a security service.

Additional cyber attackers can be in a military unit. So U.S. and South Korean officials have said North Korea's in the top five of the countries that can have cyber-attack.

TAPPER: And these cyber warriors or cyber terrorists, they're spread out throughout the globe, right? They're not just in North Korea.

KLINGNER: Exactly. They're trained in North Korea, but they can also be trained in China and elsewhere. And the defectors have said they don't usually operate from North Korea to reduce the signature. So they operate out of China, Singapore, Europe, perhaps the United States. But they'll use computers worldwide to hide their signatures. TAPPER: Insulting Kim Jong-Un or before him Kim Jong-Il, not exactly a new thing created by James Franco and Seth Rogen. Is there any evidence that North Korea has tried anything like this before?

KLINGNER: Yes. They have done cyber-attacks, U.S. and South Korea has linked them to cyber-attacks against U.S. government agencies, South Korean government agencies South Korean banks, businesses, media organizations, even dissident groups in the south.

And North Korea responds very strongly to anything they perceive as an insult to their leader. They've threatened South Korean media organizations, even publishing the geographic coordinates of the headquarters as a way of making clear their message.

TAPPER: Wow. Do you think North Korea is expecting a response from the U.S.?

KLINGNER: They may not. There have been many times when they've conducted military attacks, even leading to loss of life of U.S. and South Korean citizens and the U.S. and Seoul did not respond. So they may feel they have immunity really from a strong U.S. or South Korean response.

TAPPER: Do you think that the U.S. needs to respond?

KLINGNER: I think so. There are a number of things we can do. First of all, this attack may fulfill the legal requirements for putting North Korea back on the state sponsors of terrorism list. It includes definitions of criminal acts conducted in the U.S. intended to coerce the population.

Also more broadly, there are a number of things we can do still on sanctions. North Korea is not the most heavily sanctioned country in the world, despite the widespread perception. The U.S., E.U. and U.N. have put far more expansive, far stronger sanctions on Iran.

That's one reason they came back to the table. We've also done things on Iran, Burma, Syria even Zimbabwe that we haven't done to North Korea.

TAPPER: All right, Bruce Klingner, thank you so much. Appreciate your perspective.

We continue with Sony in our Pop Culture Lead. Today, two of the most famous people on the planet are slamming the company for yanking "The Interview." George Clooney and President Obama, who took time out of his year-end news conference to say the decision was a mistake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It says something interesting about North Korea that they decided to have the state mount an all-out assault on a movie studio because of a satirical movie starring Seth Rogen and James Franco. I love Seth and I love James. But the notion that that was a

threat to them, I think gives you some sense of the kind of regime we're talking about here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: As for George Clooney and maybe only a guy George Clooney big can rip into showbiz like this without fear of recrimination. Clooney submitted a petition to tout movie, television and record executives arguing, they should not give into the ransom demands of cyber terrorists.

Quote, "We know that to give into these criminals now will open the door for any group that would threaten freedom of expression, privacy and personal liberty. We hope these hackers are brought to justice but until they are, we will not stand in fear. We will stand together."

But Clooney says, no one would sign the petition because they were afraid they would be targeted next. Joining me to talk about the ongoing fallout is Matthew Belloni, executive editor of "The Hollywood Reporter."

Matthew, what's the response in Hollywood to what the president had to say and then the Sony response, that they had been working with the White House?

MATTHEW BELLONI, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER": I think you've got a clear back-and-forth here. The president was very clear, he called it a mistake. He called out a studio for the way they handled this. I think people in Hollywood were taken aback by that. He said it was a mistake to pull the film.

Then he says that, just call me, if you wanted to talk about this, just call me. Michael Lynton of Sony is now saying they did call and talk with the White House. You have a very big difference of opinion here.

TAPPER: Clooney, of course, is not as alone as some might think. Celebrities have been taking to Twitter blasting Sony's decision. I want to get your reaction to what comedian, Chris Rock, had to say. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS ROCK, COMEDIAN: This whole thing is just scary, man. Somebody e-mails, it's your private stuff -- the whole town is scared. Everybody's got to be scared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Away from Twitter, is that how people in Hollywood feel?

BELLONI: I think so. I think there are two things going on here. There is a fear of the personal stuff, of people's personal e-mails and exchanges being exposed and kind of the cyber-attack on the industry. And then I think there's a larger fear. There's the chilling effect that might go on here.

You have essentially a studio saying, we're not going to release a film that offends a country. And we know that it was the theater owners that sort of backed them into this decision. But that's the way the talent is perceiving this.

That a studio is now not releasing a film because a country doesn't like it and the effects on that, on future movies, on future subjects of media, I think are only beginning.

TAPPER: And we're already seeing that Paramount pulling a screening of "Team America World Police," a Steve Carell film set in North Korea, was supposed to start shooting in March. That's been scrapped. I would be afraid if I depended on creative expression and the freedom of speech to do my craft.

BELLONI: I think if you're a screenwriter and you have a script that is set in North Korea, you might as well throw it in the trash right now because it's not going to get made. Every studio is going to re- evaluate the political sensitivities of every movie they put in production. I think that ultimately is going to have a negative impact on the output of the industry.

TAPPER: And not only that but journalism. I mean, we have to say, we rely on journalism on the same, you and me, on the same freedom of the press, freedom of speech. This is chilling. Today it's just movies. Tomorrow, it could be much, much more.

BELLONI: And President Obama's comments on that subject were very on point. He said what if they don't like a documentary or a media report? Every one of us is in a creative media industry. And we're producing content that are ultimately going to offend certain people around the world. Now we have an example of that media being silenced because a particular person doesn't like it.

TAPPER: Thank you so much, Matt. Hope you have a good holiday season.

BELLONI: No problem.

TAPPER: President Obama now headed for Hawaii, the hard part of his day finally finished. Now we'll analyze his words after his news conference a few hours ago. The politics beyond the podium, plus the legacy he is trying to leave behind. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Now our politics lead. Like most of the American people, President Obama today seemed all set to put his office in the rearview mirror and get out of town for some vaca in the first family's case.

In a few hours, that will mean a stroll across the White House south lawn, onto Marine One, then to Air Force One and then off to Hawaii. But where we have to go through grumbling TSA agents and submit our bags and shoes to inspections, presidents have to subject themselves to full-on probes from the White House press corps.

Today the president began today by bullet-pointing his achievements.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: More jobs, more people insured, a growing economy, shrinking deficits, bustling industry, booming energy -- pick any metric that you want, America's resurgence is real. We are better off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But in between laying out the playbook for what he called his fourth quarter in office, the president was asked about North Korea and Cuba and race relations and more.

Here to discuss it all, CNN political commentators, Stephanie Cutter and Ana Navarro. We also have David Maraniss, associate editor of "The Washington Post." Thanks for being here.

David, I want to start with you. He seemed to be in a great mood, a better mood than I've seen him in years.

DAVID MARANISS, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "WASHINGTON POST": It was Barack Obama -- he was as loose as he would be on a basketball court playing pick-up basketball. Because he was in some senses liberated, liberated by defeat, first of all, with no other elections to lose and by the forward action of what he's done in the last couple of months.

TAPPER: Ana, how much do you think Cuba and his move on Cuba is actually going to have any negative consequences for him? The American people seem, at least according to polls, behind a shift. I know it's going to be a big issue in the Republican primaries. But do you think it's going to hurt Obama at all?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that's why he timed it for when he did. I think it is not a coincidence that both with immigration and Cuba, he timed it for after the 2014 elections. I think everybody who's dealt with -- President Obama has been watching him when he was candidate Obama, knows this is probably something he wanted to do from day one.

And politics, the restraint of politics have kept him from doing it. Remember, there was a close congressional race in South Florida. There's supposed to be a close governor's race in Florida. I think he didn't want the Cubans come November to remember.

Now those restraints are gone. He doesn't have a price to pay. Others may but it won't be him. By the time 2016 rolls around, I hope this will be a moot point. Those Castro brothers are looking old and frail.

TAPPER: Stephanie, what else is on this list of -- I feel like President Obama has Cuba, check, immigration executive action -- Guantanamo, closing Guantanamo. What else can he do or will he try to do?

STEPHANIE CUTTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have seen a lot of these press conferences. This was vintage Obama. He was energetic, he was incredibly optimistic about the future, but also what I really liked about it, more aggressively talking about what we've accomplished.

Over the course of the next year, I think you'll continue to see significant action. We've got climate standards, first-ever climate standards to protect this country. We've got international climate negotiations taking place for the first time. China is submitting to standards.

TAPPER: These are all executive actions, not congressional --

CUTTER: But he was very clear that he really does want to work with Congress. He wants to find common ground on some of the things we can agree to.

TAPPER: Yes, kind of. He said trade, trade measures, but --

CUTTER: Well, trade is important.

TAPPER: He made it very clear. He was issuing veto -- like, if you dry to come after the Wall Street reform bill, I will veto it and you cannot override my veto. He all but said he would veto Keystone.

DAVID: Not totally sure on that one.

TAPPER: What he said today about Keystone, about how this was not going to create very many jobs in the United States --

MARANISS: He said that a month ago, too. But I think the question still is can he build the alliances and does he even want to? He's done everything -- I think Obama went into office wanting to be a great president. I think he was thwarted in many respects by himself and by the opposition.

And now I think he's doing everything he can to try to reach some level of that and so some of it is by an odd form of leadership. I don't think we've ever seen a leader quite like Barack Obama before.

He's not that great at building alliances. He's not necessarily the strongest at making the world think they're afraid of him, and yet he's been able to get a lot done.

NAVARRO: He's made a calculation. He's not going to be able to do the big permanent solutions, not on things like immigration. He can't lift the embargo because it's codified in law. But the things he can do, he's decided, I'm liberated and if I'm going alone, that's what I'm going to do.

He told us this was what he was going to do back in the "State of Union" earlier this year. He said, I'm going to use the power of my pen. Now that the elections have passed and he is a caged bird that's been released. He has been in political quarantine for the entire political campaign season. He's out and he's the caged bird singing.

TAPPER: Thank you, Maya. Stephanie, what do you expect to happen in 2015? Is it going to be more gridlock or do you think they're going to be able to come to terms on something?

CUTTER: You know, I actually think they'll come to terms on things. I think this is not atypical of presidents entering in the final two years of their presidencies. With Bill Clinton, I worked in the Clinton White House for the tail end of that presidency. He was just coming off impeachment at this point. But he was still able to work across party lines --

TAPPER: It's 67 percent approval rating, Obama's at 42 percent.

MARANISS: But this is more like '95 in some sense, comparing Clinton and Obama. You remember Bill Clinton had to give the press conference where he said, I'm still relevant. Obama's already done that.

NAVARRO: You've got to have drunk some of that spiked punch, too, to be believing that --

CUTTER: My point is executive actions are a common tool for presidents at this stage of their presidency --

TAPPER: Saying he's relevant without actually saying, I'm still relevant. Stephanie Cutter, Ana Navarro, David Maraniss, thank you so much. Happy holidays to all of you.

Up next in our Pop Culture Lead --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT: I promised you a revolution. I have delivered. Technically, one revolution is 360 degrees right back to where we were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that's the thing about Stephen Colbert, sometimes the truth hurts, but he made some harsh truths hurt less. His thoughts, his last word, as he says his final good-byes to the nation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLBERT: Finally, a new television show premieres and changes the world. Open wide, baby bird, because momma's got a big, fat night crawler of truth. Here comes "The Colbert Report".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. That was Stephen Colbert on his first episode of "The Colbert Report," which ended its incredible nine-year run last night. In all the episodes, Colbert's has pretty much done it all and seen it all. He's interviewed presidents and celebrities alike, had a NASA

treadmill named after him, hosted a rally on the National Mall to restore sanity and/or fear.

Last night on the final "Report," he brought back a few friends, including your humble anchor, to send Colbert the character into immortality.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): In all truthiness it was undeniably the best television finale I've ever been on barely. After a celebrated nine- year run, Stephen Colbert, the character, not the comedian, bid fond farewell to the Colbert nation last night.

COLBERT: If this is your first time tuning in, I have some terrible news.

TAPPER: Colbert's been a satirical newsman since 1997, first as a correspondent on "The Daily Show." Two years before Jon Stewart even came on board.

And now after nine years behind the anchor desk, Stephen Colbert ended his run as Stephen Colbert, the satirical anchor. Stars from the silver screen, politics, pop culture, media, science, music, the military, muppetry, and the 4 p.m. hour of CNN joined in one voice, even Henry Kissinger as big bird carried the tune.

Colbert took the helm in 2005.

TAPPER: You're my date. This is before your show.

COLBERT: If you meet Tom Brady --

TAPPER: You get up at some point in the meal. You're very polite. You get up. About 45 minutes later you come back and you said, I just made a deal to have my own show.

COLBERT: Yes. I told you what it was.

TAPPER: You told me what it was.

COLBERT: You said, that's a terrible idea.

TAPPER: I said, I loved you as a correspondent.

COLBERT: You poured cold water on it.

TAPPER: I was worried about it.

COLBERT: You were. I remember thinking, what?

TAPPER: Because I didn't know if you could do the character for a half hour.

COLBERT: I didn't either. I knew I could do it for half an hour. I'm not sure if I could do it more than once. Maybe by the second guy, people would say, that guy's a complete a-hole, why am I doing it?

TAPPER: I have never been more delighted to have been so staggeringly breathtakingly wrong.

COLBERT: Your instincts are terrible. Not journalistic. Your showbizness instincts.

TAPPER: What a wild ride it's been for the Colbert nation, from Colbert hosting the White House correspondents dinner and roasting President Bush to hosting his show in a war zone and of course all of this --

COLBERT: Running for president, saving the Olympics, Colbert super PAC, treadmill in space, the rally to restore sanity and/or fear -- none of that was really me. You, the nation, did all of that. I just got paid for it.

TAPPER: Colbert now moves up the street in Manhattan to CBS and the famed Ed Sullivan Theater will he will succeed David Letterman as host of "The Late Show." He will retire the faux punditry of Stephen Colbert and just be Stephen Colbert. Stephen, we hardly knew ye. Here's to getting to know Stephen all over again.

COLBERT: OK, that's the show.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I now turn you over to Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Have a great weekend.