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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With California Congressman Adam Schiff; Terror Attack in France; Paris Official: 3 Suspects May Have Been Arrested

Aired January 07, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Today, I am Charlie. Je suis Charlie aujourd'hui.

And this is THE LEAD.

The world lead, urban warfare, terrorism in Paris, as mass gunmen go on a killing spree at the offices of a magazine, a satirical magazine that mocks Islam on occasion, and then they sped away, the killers, the terrorists heard yelling, "We have avenged the prophet" as they went on their rampage, the attack highly coordinated down to the getaway.

So who was behind those masks and what else do they have in store? And with these gunmen on the loose, what is the U.S. doing to help the French find them and stop something like this from happening here?

I will be joined by a member of the House Intelligence Committee. He will tell us and share just what he learned in a top secret briefing just now.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We begin today with breaking news in our world lead, a citywide manhunt for three terrorists still on the loose after slaughtering 12 people. French police are frantically scouring the city for these men, hooded terrorists who staged a carefully orchestrated slaughter in the heart of Paris right around noon local time.

The gunmen opened fire on a maintenance crew, killing one man. Then they stormed the offices of the satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo," and then there they murdered 10 more people, eight journalists and a police officer detailed to protect the publication staff, as well as a guest at the magazine.

And then they shot and killed another police officer while trying to escape, 12 total. This was the shiver-inducing scene earlier today, the gunmen interrupting the magazine's editorial meeting with bullets, the pops of gunshots punctuated with cries "Allahu akbar," God is great, according to witnesses.

The Paris prosecutor says 11 others were wounded in the attack and four of them remain in serious condition. The prosecutor also says that the terrorists, once they finished their bloody rampage, hijacked a car before disappearing into that maze of Parisian streets. They remain at large, armed and presumed dangerous. So far, no terrorist group has stepped forward to claim responsibility

for the attack. Earlier this afternoon, President Obama called the massacre cowardly and evil and he said that the United States of America stands with the French.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We stand with the people of France in this very, very difficult time. This was an attack on journalists, an attack on a free press. It also underscores the degree to which these terrorists fear freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's bring in CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto.

Jim, you have been piecing together just how this terrible tragedy transpired. Walk us through it.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Shocking in its brazenness, but also in its sophistication.

I am told by a senior U.S. counterterror official that there was no warning U.S. intelligence was aware of, of this particular attack, that the previous warnings to this publication were either old and not clearly and obviously tied to today's shooting. I am also told that U.S. counterterror now considering really just a rogues' gallery of possible groups as being behind this attack, including core al Qaeda, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, as well as ISIS.

And for all of them, this kind of attack, this particular M.O. in the middle of a French city, a European city would be unprecedented in the West.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): It is the deadliest terror attack in France in decades, unfolding in a horrific few minutes in broad daylight in the downtown streets of Paris. An attacker yells "Allahu akbar," "God is great." The four gunmen open fire inside the offices of a French satirical magazine which fueled anger from Islamic extremists in the past.

FRANCOIS MOLINS, PARIS PROSECUTOR (through translator): They were on the second floor and moved towards the editorial section, where the entire team of journalists were together.

SCIUTTO: Outside on the street, the attackers gunned down a police officer. He screams, "Stay away." But the gunmen shoot him dead and leave a clue about their motivation.

MOLINS (through translator): They shouted that, "We have taken revenge for the prophet." SCIUTTO: They then head to their getaway car, one gunman raising his hand in the air in what could be a signal to others that played a role in the attack, according to a Western intelligence source. Another stops to pick up a shoe before fleeing the scene, then a wild chase in the streets of Paris, and cars rammed and violent confrontations.

MOLINS (through translator): They were then faced with a police car. At that time, it was the first exchange of fire, but no injuries. Then, after that, they faced another police patrol, which led to a second exchange. Then there was a third shooting unleashed against a police team and one member was hit and shot to the ground.

SCIUTTO: The grim result, 12 people killed, another 11 wounded, among the dead, newspaper editor and cartoonist Stephane Charbonnier, known as Charb, who in past editions of the paper satirized the Prophet Mohammed.

With the attackers still on the loose tonight, France's president wants immediate action.

FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): We need to find the actors of this terrorist act. They must be arrested and brought before judges. France is shocked today.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Experts now poring over the video of these attacks and they see some telltale signs that they're learning from right now. One is that the attackers fired single shots when they were assassinating this policeman on the ground, that they were dressed in matching military-type uniforms, they had the same kind of equipment, they had extra magazines of ammunition.

And they also moved around, held their weapons and fired their weapons with comfort, which shows both a level of training, but also, Jake, the possibility of combat experience, that, of course, relevant because the chief concern in Europe has been the possibility of returning foreign fighters from Syria and Iraq coming back to Europe and carrying out attacks.

None of this definitive yet, but those warning signs are being seen in the video.

TAPPER: Also significant, potentially, the fact that this wasn't a suicide attack.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely.

TAPPER: They did not commit suicide at the end and that they tried to get away.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Which is so common, it almost seems to be the M.O., the normal M.O., with these kinds of attacks and that they covered their faces with masks. TAPPER: Jim Sciutto, excellent reporting. Thank you so much.

The race is on to locate these three suspects before they leave the country or perhaps kill again. The FBI is working with French intelligence and French law enforcement to try to help find them, coordinating forensics and ballistics and intelligence aspects.

CNN international correspondent Atika Shubert is now live for us in Paris, where police are continuing to work into the night to track down these terrorists.

Atika, are police any closer to finding these three individuals?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one source we spoke to who is familiar with this investigation has told us that police may have identified the gunmen, but authorities are saying they will not make any information they have public at this moment until they are absolutely sure and they're asking for the media to refrain from giving any details at this point.

So it does seem that they're making progress, but no public statements yet. What we do know, of course, is that, as we heard from Jim Sciutto's report, that the car, the getaway car was ditched in 19th arrondissement, and they actually hijacked another car. And that is where they sort of lost track of them and they're still on the trail of them.

Now they have been asking for eyewitnesses to come forward, anybody who was either at the scene of the attack or who saw the hijacking of the vehicle to give them more details about what happened, who these men are and where they may be headed to.

TAPPER: Atika Shubert in Paris, thank you so much.

Let's go now to CNN's Tom Foreman, who is posted up in the virtual room.

Tom, we have been looking at these videos and still photographs of the attack all day. Help us better understand where and how this all happened.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, let's bring in the map here and pull together the geography of this attack.

I am standing down here near the Eiffel Tower and you see the U.S. Embassy along the way. And then the address we're talking about is down at the other end there. And let's zoom in a little bit closer to take a look at these buildings.

The indication is that, at about 11:30, that's when this car came from the east, up the street to the front of this building. You see the red dot that we put on the building right there? That's where these workers were who were encountered by the gunmen, who asked them, where exactly is this office? They were told that it was on the second floor of this building. One of the workers was then shot and the gunmen went inside, where they had their first encounter with police actually, an officer in the room, who was killed. Then, when they came back out, they came out with their guns firing. See the yellow dot we have put on here? That yellow dot indicates where the camera was that shot this video, somebody on a rooftop, so you get a sense of where they were pointing down the street.

And you can see the gunmen coming out with their guns blazing, down on that corner down there. Now they turn and they start heading up this street, and as they head up this street, another camera picks them up. This is the other view that you have been seeing all day. They're pointed the exact opposite direction of the first camera.

And this one captures this view, the standoff with police officers where they simply stop in the middle of the street. The two gunmen get out on either side and start shooting at that police car that is blocking their way.

We talked a lot about the precision and the discipline of these gunmen. There are 15 to 16 shots put by these people down here into the middle of the windshield of that police officer. No one was hurt in this exchange, but this is the second time they have encountered police and once again they get past them.

Third time is a bicycle officer that they encounter very shortly after this. And then rotate around and take a look at that big green swathe through the middle there. You see that huge piece of a boulevard running right through there? That is where they finally have their last encounter with a police officer in all this, that yellow spot right there you see, not very far at all from where it all began.

And that is where this video was shot, the terrible video of the officer on foot who is attacked by the two men that get out of the car. They essentially stalk him and they kill him on the sidewalk here. Then, Jake, they finally get back in the car, they take off again. They're headed toward the north and slightly to the west after this shooting is done, and they actually go a fair distance.

If you look back at the map here, the distance that they're going to cover after that takes them about what would normally be a 12-minute drive away from that spot where it all began. You look at the red spot there. They ended up way up in here about 12 minutes away before they crashed their car, then tried to drive a little bit more, can't, hijack another car and then they disappear, so an awful lot of activity in a limited space.

In four separate encounters with police, each time, the gunmen shot their way through -- Jake.

TAPPER: Tom Foreman, thank you so much.

This was the deadliest terrorist attack in Europe since the 2005 London transit system bombings. The House and Senate Intelligence Committees were just briefed on what happened in France.

How concerned are U.S. officials about copycats or similar terrorist acts here in the U.S.?

Let's bring in Democratic Congressman from California Adam Schiff, who sits on the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for coming by. We appreciate it.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: You bet.

TAPPER: First of all, just watching Tom's report there, this was a very sophisticated attack by people who were very highly trained, it appears.

SCHIFF: It certainly looks like they were very well-trained and trained in combat, both in terms of the organization they had, but also in the ruthlessness with which they shot people, got back in their vehicles, the very methodical nature of it all.

It certainly looks like they had combat experience. As of the briefing this afternoon that we received, we still don't know who is responsible. The French may be now further along than we were a couple of hours ago in our own briefing. But if this is foreign fighters coming back, it will be some of our worst fears realized.

TAPPER: And the French government has expressed concern a number of times about the hundreds of French citizens who are fighting with rebel and terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq and then coming back.

I think they put the number at 185 have come back, and come back to France. That would seem to suggest, and I know we don't know exactly who is behind this, but that might seem to suggest that this is a group that has ties to al Qaeda or ISIS and not just lone gunmen, three guys together coming together.

SCHIFF: It certainly would seem that way, given the fact that this is more than one individual. It's not someone who was radicalized in their basement, but this is a group of people.

And you have to wonder, if they did -- if these reports out of France are correct that they went to the wrong place first or they didn't know where they were, that might suggest there were different people casing the location from those who carried out the attack, so still a lot of unanswered questions about how many people were involved.

We're obviously cooperating in every we can with the French. We're going to provide them -- if they have leads, we will chase them down on our end, see if we have any intel on the suspects or who they may be associated with. The full extent of our forensic capabilities through the FBI will be made available, any way we can to help.

TAPPER: Obviously, nothing conclusive yet, but are intelligence officials leaning towards either AQAP or ISIS? Those are both groups that I know have been suspected in being part of this.

SCHIFF: As of a couple of hours ago, they really weren't ready to say that there are more indications of this group than that. But any way you slice it, we're seeing a proliferation of attacks around the world, some very unsophisticated people in a car mowing people down, others a little more sophisticated. But these are all quite low-tech. And the reality is, no matter how good our intelligence may be or the Europeans' intelligence may be, it's hard to detect these low-tech kind of attacks and prevent them.

We are going to have to obviously step up our game. And for the French, this is not just an issue of keeping track of the hundreds of French who have joined the fight, but the many thousands of Europeans that have joined the fight that can come back to France with very easy travel in Europe.

TAPPER: Right. Very open borders there.

How concerned are U.S. officials about either a related attack in the United States or a possible copycat?

SCHIFF: I don't think there's any indication that we have intelligence that there's a broader plot that there are going to be simultaneous or consecutive attacks in Europe, then the United States.

But, obviously, we're concerned always with the prospect of copycat attacks. And it may very well be that this attack was motivated by attacks that we're seeing in Australia or elsewhere. So, we certainly are concerned about it. I think we have done probably a better job in following the foreign fighters, merely, though, because we have so few of them to follow by comparison with Europe.

So, we have a security advantage with our oceans and with the fact that we haven't seen quite as much homegrown radicalism as in places like France.

TAPPER: And then, lastly, it appears that these individuals at the magazine, "Charlie Hebdo", were specifically targeted, assassinated even, because of what the magazine had published. Is that what intelligence officials are saying? This was specifically aimed at these individuals?

SCHIFF: You know, it certainly looks like that. Obviously, this is a publication that has been subject of not only a firebombing, but repeated threats throughout the years. There were no threats, very specific threats recently. I think the most specific threats were some years ago. But, nonetheless, obviously, this is a publication that was always within the sights of radicalism because of the parody, the comedic nature of the content and the fact that they went after everybody.

And this is one of the things that I think we have to be very concerned about, and that is the chilling impact on free speech. We saw it just recently in the United States with the whole North Korean complicity and the attacks on Sony and now we're seeing it in a very bloody fashion in Europe, and we have concerns not only about this horrible loss of life, but what it will mean in terms of free expression.

TAPPER: That's right. Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you so much. Appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

Intelligence across Europe and the United States, even the FBI, now looking for the terrorists and looking for answers. Right now, they're combing through every bit of evidence. How long had was this attack being planned? Will these murderers strike again?

Brand new details of what the U.S. is learning coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Some breaking news in our world lead: the deputy mayor of Paris says authorities have now identified the three suspected terrorists who murdered 12 individuals earlier today in Paris. CNN is not naming the suspects because we have been unable to independently confirm their identities. The deputy mayor also says that the three of the terrorists escaped together.

Let's bring him in, Patrick Klugman, the deputy mayor of Paris joins me now on the phone.

Monsieur Klugman, thank you for joining us. What can you tell me about these three individuals?

PATRICK KLUGMAN, DEPUTY MAYOR OF PARIS (via telephone): Well, the latest information we have which has been released already is that these two brothers and another person. There were three. They come from the suburb (INAUDIBLE) and they may have been arrested a few minutes ago. So, we should mention that (INAUDIBLE) three individuals suspected age 34, 32 and 18, and then they may have been, first, identified and two arrested.

So, we should know in the coming hours if they are the persons that the gang who committed this awful act of terror this morning at (INAUDIBLE). This is the latest information.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: All right. So, I just want to make sure I got this information right. So, there are three individuals, two of them are brothers, their ages are 34, 32 and 18 and you're saying of these three, two of them have been arrested by French police, is that right?

KLUGMAN: All three of them have been --

TAPPER: All three of them --

KLUGMAN: May have been arrested.

TAPPER: May have been arrested.

And do you know anything about the circumstances of the arrest?

KLUGMAN: No, I don't -- I don't -- I don't have anything else at the moment. TAPPER: There are reports that the gunmen shouted the names of the

victims as they went around the room assassinating these people. Can you confirm this? Is this accurate?

KLUGMAN: Actually, can you repeat the question?

TAPPER: Sure. There are reports that when she's three terrorists went around the room at "Charlie Hebdo" shooting journalists, cartoonists and others, they were shouting their names as they did it.

KLUGMAN: Yes. I have that information that they were calling their names before shooting them. They were calling them. It was a kind of execution. Yes, I have -- we heard it this morning when we were on site.

TAPPER: There are -- I mean, as you know, this terrorist attack was carried out with -- I don't want to praise these individuals, but it was obvious that these three had been trained and it was highly efficient, brutal and horrific, but highly efficient and do they have any idea how they were trained so well? Were they from abroad?

KLUGMAN: We do not have that information. One of the latest information is that one of the individuals may have been already prosecuted in the back (INAUDIBLE) I don't have any more details. I think I should know more about them in the coming days. But at the moment, of course, we will all stand by the level of preparation of violence and of quietness and lack of humanity of the gang.

When we went there, the mayor, (INAUDIBLE), the emergency care services say that we're not used to deal with this kind of violence.

TAPPER: Right.

KLUGMAN: It's not only terror, say it's a war. These people have been killed like in a war. Shot dead, bullets in the head. So, it's a new kind of terror we're facing here.

TAPPER: And you said one of the three individuals had been prosecuted before. Was it for a crime related to terrorism?

KLUGMAN: I don't know, and I don't want to give you false information. I cannot confirm it.

TAPPER: Is there any indication as to whether there is a foreign terrorist group, whether ISIS or al Qaeda, that is -- that may have played a role in this horrific attack?

KLUGMAN: Well, first, we obviously know that Paris remained one of the capital cities aimed by terror groups. I would like to --

TAPPER: It sounds like we just lost the deputy mayor of Paris, Patrick Klugman. We thank him very much in providing that breaking information.

As you just heard, according to the Paris deputy mayor, the three heavily armed gunmen, terrorists, who shot up a Paris magazine office today, may have been arrested. He said they are 34, 32 and 18 years old. The two of them are brothers. The deputy mayor also just told me that one of these individuals is known to authorities and may have already been prosecuted in the past.

Let's bring in CNN's newest contributor Mike Rogers, the former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. He is a brand new CNN national security commentator, making his first appearance in that role right now on THE LEAD.

Mike, it's great to see you. Welcome aboard.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Jake, thanks for having me.

TAPPER: Thank you so much. You picked an auspicious day to begin, a horrific terror attack.

You just heard the deputy mayor, what else -- can you tell us what else do we know at this point about who these three terrorists are?

ROGERS: That's the speed of the investigation tells you that they've used every source that they have available, both electronic and otherwise, to try to establish their pattern of who they were, what their footprint was in the community and how they tracked them down. So, this is a good news for the after-action as far as the French police go.

TAPPER: How could they do this? I know that, for instance, London and the U.K. in general is a surveillance state, basically. There are cameras everywhere. Is it like that in Paris, too?

ROGERS: Some of it. Not to the same extent that London would have.

TAPPER: How do you think -- I mean, this -- I know it's speculation. But how could they have caught them so quickly?

ROGERS: Well, again, every criminal will leave a trail. They'll leave signs of who they are and what they accomplished. Simple things from what they may have posted on social media, how they can track that back. Sources pick up the phone and make a phone call. All of those things are likely to have happened in this particular case, which allows us to get to the first lead, which in this case it sounds like it compounded very quickly to the identification of one and once you get one, it's easier to identify the others.

TAPPER: How concerned are U.S. officials that there may be a copycat attack in the United States or that something like this might happen related to this attack here in this country?

ROGERS: Yes, let's back up for a minute. If you recall what happened in Australia, this was ISIS recruiters when they were self-radicalized Australians who wanted to join the fight in Syria called and said hey, we're ready to go, they were making preparations to show up in Syria. They called and said, no. We'd like you to stay home in Australia, conduct an attack in Australia. We want you to videotape it, send it to us and we'll use it as a propaganda tool. We know there was communications in Canada. We know there had been

arrests prior to this in France, in Great Britain, in Spain and Germany. So, this really is a pattern. We're well into a pattern.

This wasn't a wake-up call. This wasn't new and shocking. It was new and shocking in the sense that it happened and they were able to pull it off. But this is something that we had seen from not only ISIS, but other terrorist groups trying to pull off an attack in a place like -- anywhere in the West, anywhere in Europe, the United States or Canada. They'd been successful.

So, I have a feeling we start peeling this onion back, you will find some tie. They may have self-identified the target meaning they were already radicalized, they decided they were going to take action. But that's the new, pressing, if you will, encouragement coming out of groups like ISIS for these groups to do this -- these small groups, small radical lone-wolf groups to go ahead and conduct these kinds of attacks.

TAPPER: And, in fact, the editor of the satirical magazine was put on a hit-list on the magazine "Inspire", which is the al Qaeda Internet magazine. How seriously is that magazine taken by would-be jihadists and other jihadists? Do they see the publication and say oh, look, we can get him and that could be the extent of the link with al Qaeda that they just read this magazine and targeted somebody that al Qaeda wanted them to target?

ROGERS: We worry about "Inspire" for a whole host of reasons. It gives details on how to make homemade bombs and it does other encouraging acts for people to engage in acts of terror around the world. It's printed in English, as well which is very, very concerning for us in the United States. So, I have a feeling it was that plus a lot more. I don't think that this group read it in "Inspire" and then decided that in and of itself was going to do it.

What they're doing by this constant promotion in "Inspire" magazine is they're leading people to get further radicalized and to inquire about what that might look like and who they can find to help them do an attack like this.