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The Lead with Jake Tapper

More Airport Security Expected Soon; Source: Up To 20 Terror Cells Ready To Strike; Does Thwarted Plot Signal New Era Of Terror?

Aired January 16, 2015 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. In our National Lead, we are learning more about the deadly terror raids, attacks and plots over in Europe and that is prompting the U.S. government here to focus even more on security in the homeland.

Threats being discerned by the intelligence community led the TSA to ramp up security at airports, but those screenings take manpower and they take money. Today, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson demanded that Congress pony up and pay to keep Americans safe.

Rene Marsh is on top of the story. You talked directly to Jeh Johnson. What did he have to say?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the headline from my conversation with Secretary Johnson, expect even more ramped up security measures at our nation's airports. Johnson says it's in response to some of the threat streams they are seeing now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We've evolved to a new phase in the global terrorist threat.

MARSH (voice-over): The head of Homeland Security revealing today even more airport security measures are on the way.

JOHNSON: We're looking at doing more in the short term in reaction to some of the threat streams that we're seeing now.

MARSH: This after DHS announced earlier this week ramped up searches at U.S. airports over fears terrorists are creating non-metallic explosives capable of passing through some airport scanners undetected.

(on camera): So when you talk about more measures as far as aviation goes, what would that look like, what's the timeline for that and what is this new intelligence?

JOHNSON: We're looking at it right now and I told my folks I wanted an assessment in the very short term. So I expect to get that in the next couple days.

MARSH: So it's unclear what those extra measures would be?

JOHNSON: We're looking at it right now.

MARSH: Additional random passenger and luggage checks are now happening at the gate once travelers have cleared TSA checkpoints. After al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula published a step by step guide to building hard to detect bombs.

Following September 11th, transportation systems continue to be a target for terrorists. Four suicide bombs detonated within seconds of each other on a bus and three different trains traveling through London underground stations. In 2010, (inaudible) guilty plea for plotting to blow up New York subways.

JOHNSON: We need to focus more on homeland based threats, the potential lone wolf actor as well as those who may be living in our society who are lying in wait, perhaps.

MARSH: Just this week, an electrical malfunction caused smoke to fill a D.C. metro station, killing one and injuring dozens more. Passengers were left waiting for more than 40 minutes before emergency responders helped them evacuate, raising serious questions about how prepared the U.S. is to respond to emergencies on the nation's transportation system.

BLAIR RUBLE, VICE PRESIDENT FOR PROGRAMS, WILSON CENTER: One does have to wonder what would have happened had that fire been set by terrorists. And clearly, the response was inadequate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: Well, to that point, he says the emergency response to that incident here in Washington, D.C. involving mass transit highlights local agencies, in his words, have not learned the lessons from September 11th.

Now Johnson -- today, Secretary Johnson striking a reassuring tone saying, that the department is assessing new intelligence and threats every day, every hour. He says that's how he spends the majority of his morning.

TAPPER: Rene Marsh, thank you so much. I want to bring in Mike Rogers, CNN's new national security commentator and former chairman of the house intelligence committee until just a few weeks ago. Mr. Chairman, thanks so much for joining us.

First of all, I was talking to Jeh Johnson a few weeks ago, he was here, and there was a report from NPR that the Homeland Security Department was contemplating banning all carry-on luggage from airplanes.

I asked Johnson about it. He wouldn't shoot it down. He just said there was no plan as of now. Why? Why would Homeland Security be contemplating that?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, clearly they have a threat stream that would indicate that they need to be -- take that extra degree of caution in those bags. We know that al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has been working to develop bombs that would circumvent security systems in the United States and around the world, and that clearly is something they are concerned about.

TAPPER: Non-metallic bombs.

ROGERS: Something that couldn't be detected.

TAPPER: Why couldn't they put them in checked luggage?

ROGERS: Very difficult. It's a different system, if you want something to be detonated underneath the plane than it is on a person including electronically. It's just difficult for those to be reliable in the terrorist version of reliability. So that's what it is.

So they are clearly operating under a very specific threat stream, just like we saw in Belgium, when they sent soldiers to a Jewish neighborhood. Clearly that was a result of information they got during those previous raids that that was something they were going to have to be concerned about.

So when you see the ramped up activity in Europe, all of the threat stream leading up to these events in the last weeks and this is over months, I think that's what the secretary did and it's prudent.

They are taking a hard look at what those threat streams are, what the real capabilities might be and then they are going to try to provide some security solution to that. In the short term it might be that you can't bring on your -- you can't hand carry-on bags.

TAPPER: So more than 17 or 18 arrests so far in Europe just in the last day since that Belgian terror cell was attacked by counterterrorism forces. I imagine that U.S. intelligence is working overtime to see if any of these individuals, whether they have been caught or not, or even they're suspects, have had any communication with anyone in the U.S.

ROGERS: That's correct. So they will go back, they are called selectors' phone numbers, e-mails, anything that they can find on any of the people they arrested or were killed in any operation, and try to determine was there any connection to the United States.

Was there any phone call, was there any other social media communication, were they talking to someone, anyone in the United States, about either radicalization, financing, or God forbid, they want to launch or give an order, an indication that they would like to launch attacks here in the United States.

TAPPER: We have been talking about this for months, the fear that all of these hundreds of Jihadis flocking from the U.S. and Australia and Europe to Iraq and Syria to fight alongside of either ISIS or Al Nusra or any of these terrorists groups that they would come back and they would start to wage attacks within the west. We are seeing that now in Europe, of course. Is it just a

matter of time, especially given the visa that you don't need a visa to travel from Europe here, that you think one of these people will just get on a plane and try to do something here in the U.S.?

ROGERS: Absolutely. So one of the big fears is that we said for months that somebody is one plane ticket away from getting to the United States, you can be from anywhere in Europe that has these they are called visa waiver countries.

Meaning they don't have to apply for a visa to come into the country, nobody has to scrutinize their travel here, and someone can get into Syria as we have found from the French example --

TAPPER: Just cross the Turkey border.

ROGERS: Absolutely. We think there are other ways as well. There are great human trafficking pipelines. Unfortunately, into Syria as there was into Iraq during the conflict there. So for the intelligence service saying they know exactly how many they are, that simply is not true. So there is that gap and that gap is what scares people about what person did go, get trained, get radicalized, get the necessary equipment, come back, get on an airplane, come to the United States, Canada, either one problematic.

TAPPER: One of the things that Jeh Johnson, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, is upset about is because he wants full funding for his department so he can, in his view, protect the American people.

A lot of that money is being held up in Congress right now because many Republicans object to President Obama's executive actions when it comes to immigration and allowing people to stay in this country who are here illegally who have roots here, and Johnson seems to be saying that is just politics and it seems like a tough argument for Republicans to make, given this threat. No?

ROGERS: Well, first of all, there's no money that's not being able for the secretary to spend. So there's politics on both sides of that argument. So he's arguing it's politics, you shouldn't do this to us, give us more money, but he has all the money he needs to fully operate.

TAPPER: There is a continuing resolution.

ROGERS: Absolutely. So that money is coming. What they have to do, at one point they will have to face a time, it's not right now, there's no new pot of money that would allow him to do something different that he can't do today.

So there is politics on both sides of that equation. I find it distasteful that both sides are making that argument. They ought to sit down, they have separate differences on these other issues, they ought to sit down, the president should engage as well on this.

Not necessarily at a press conference but actually meet with people and have that discussion with them. I think he would move the ball down the field quite a bit if he decided to do that.

TAPPER: Chairman Mike Rogers, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

When we come back, tracking terror, our CNN correspondent is right now inside Yemen trying to retrace the steps of the Kouachi brothers as investigators say there has been a surge in al Qaeda recruitment there. That's next.

Plus protests turn violent in Pakistan. A photographer for a French news agency was shot as police fought back angry crowds with water cannons and tear gas. Why were protesters so enraged? Stay with us.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. More on our World Lead, the terrorist attacks on "Charlie Hebdo" magazine in Paris served as a haunting, terrifying reminder that the Yemen arm of al Qaeda is not only active but in some ways, it is even thriving.

Nashir Al Ansi (ph), is a top commander of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and he claimed responsibility for last week's attack although it remains unclear if the leader ever actually met with the two brothers, the Kouachis, who carried out the murderous rampage.

But what we have learned is that there has been a disturbing surge in recruitment for AQAP, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and Yemen, making life easier for jihadists looking to carry out attacks against the west and helping al Qaeda groom the next generation of terrorists and bomb makers.

Let's go live to CNN senior international correspondent, Nick Paton-Walsh who is in Yemen. What is fueling al Qaeda's recruitment success?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is the civil conflict here that has for years persisted in many different forms and made this country such a mess and such a haven for al Qaeda affiliated groups. The turn it's taken, though, in the last year or so, more

prominently, is that a group who are predominantly seen as Shia have moved in and taken over the capital, and their opponents in many areas are joined by al Qaeda as much of course of the Middle East, we are seeing a war really being fueled and taking formation here in Yemen.

Sunnis sign up with the groups potentially allied with al Qaeda. That boost in recruitment numbers, one western diplomat told me today, means that they are less under pressure on the local battlefield and those in charge of external operations, those who plot attacks against the west, those who claimed they were behind what they referred to as the blessed battle of Paris, they have all space to plan those operations.

As the same diplomat said to me, groom, prepare the next generation of bomb makers here. That's what AQAP specialize in, not necessarily having also to bring people to Yemen to learn those techniques. They have their quote, "secret recipes" for non-metallic bombs.

They can send them out using "Inspire" magazine on the Internet and some of course to come here and learn those techniques in Yemen, this failing state itself -- Jake.

TAPPER: Nick Paton Walsh in Yemen, thank you, my friend. Please stay safe.

The ongoing raids in Europe show that it's not just al Qaeda, but also now Isis ramping up their campaigns against the west signaling a new era of terrorism, according to officials with the group whose barbarism has shown no limits.

I'm joined now by Bob McFadden. He is the senior vice president for the Soufan Group. He is a former special agent in charge for NCIS, the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. Bob, thanks for being here.

The terror suspects arrested in the Belgian raid yesterday, they were believed to be acting under some sort of orders or coordination with ISIS to attack Belgian police officers.

Is this a declaration of war against the west more so even than the brutality we have seen from ISIS including the beheadings of westerners?

BOB MCFADDEN, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, NCIS: Yes, I don't know if it would be any more of a declaration because spokespersons and conduits through social media for the Islamic state have been saying for months now that look, if you're not even part of our group, carry out violence against our enemies which would be led by the United States European powers.

And the French were specifically cited, using quite strong language. But in the period we're in right now, there are a number of different scenarios as to this period, what exactly happened. One, it could have been recently dispatched individuals were in Syria and given tasking.

Another scenario, they may have been in Syria at one time, had an affiliation with the Islamic State and received some kind of loose like return to your homeland and await word from us, or it could be something in between those scenarios.

TAPPER: Given the sheer volume of alleged terror cells that have potentially cropped up in Europe according to authorities there, it might seem almost impossible for counterterrorism officials in Europe and here in the U.S. to stay one step ahead of them all.

MCFADDEN: Well, for a number of months and actually more closer to three and a half years, this may, and I emphasize may because we don't know exactly yet, speak to the crisis or the threat from returning foreign fighters. Just the sheer numbers from the country we're talking about,

the biggest in Europe. You have in France, Germany, United Kingdom, although not impacted yet, but tiny Belgium by percentage of population has the biggest ratio of foreign fighters that have been known to go to Syria.

TAPPER: What do you think this all says about the campaign against is in Syria from the U.S. and the coalition? Does strategy need to change? It doesn't seem as though the U.S. is as effective as it should be at this point.

MCFADDEN: Well, you know, boiling it down to what parts of the Islamic State you're talking about. The U.S. was pretty clear from the beginning that the priority was in Iraq because you had more U.S. interests, personnel, embassy and the consulate there.

But then there was a shift to targets in the Syrian side, but the U.S. leaders and the military have said from the beginning it's not going to be air strikes that are going to take care of this menace. Air strikes of course will help push back Islamic State.

It can't move with impunity, for example, in some of those areas in Syria and Iraq. However, it won't be air strikes that diminish or greatly disrupt that threat. That's going to have to come from local and regional forces.

But as far as small cells, group affiliation, what we're saying consistently as well, the group affiliation most often is not as important as it is the ideology that drives this terrorist behavior. Fuzzy sometimes as to whom you're aligning with, overlapping alliances but it's the ideology.

TAPPER: Bob McFadden, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, we are working every one of our sources about the latest in the terror operations in Europe. We will have some breaking news when we come back.

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TAPPER: We have some breaking news right now. Welcome back to THE LEAD. New information just in to CNN about the network of terror cells that police raided in Europe, specifically in Belgium.

Sources are now telling CNN that those cells are definitively linked to the terrorist group, ISIS, and security forces they say have only taken down part of this network of cells.

CNN terror analyst, Paul Cruickshank is in New York. He has been working on this for us. Paul, what can you tell us?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: Jake, hi, yes. I have just been speaking to a senior Belgian counterterrorism source, key new details about this investigation and about this terrorist cell. As you were just saying, they feel they have taken down part of this terrorist network in Belgium, but they don't feel that they have yet taken down every node of it.

So they are concerned obviously that there could still be some people linked with it in Belgium that could still pose a threat. This was a real deal cell. They had organized structures, a logistical support network. They had links to Syria and Iraq.

Several of their members fought with ISIS in Syria. The Belgians believe that ISIS directed this, that's their suspicion based on everything they found out so far. The Belgians established through a variety of different means that there was a key middleman involved in this plot.

And that middleman was running the show from Greece. The link between this terror network in Belgium and ISIS back in Syria, the middleman being a Belgian who fought in Syria and he was sort of running the show in terms of this terror plot.

The Belgians asked the CIA for help to try and locate this middleman in Greece, but the CIA was not able to do that. This guy is still at large and they are obviously very worried about that. There is also a concern that this group in Belgium was linked to other cells in Europe, who also have an ISIS connection so they are investigating that all at the moment as well.

They also said when they went in in this residence that they raided that the building they raided, they found explosive precursors. Those explosive precursors were for TATP, which is the same explosive which was going to be used in the plot here in New York in 2009, an al Qaeda plot, very powerful bombs.

They don't know for sure yet what the target was. The reason they are talking about police stations, police officers perhaps being targeted, is that they discussed this on their phones. There were wiretaps.

But given the fact they had this powerful explosive that they hadn't yet started making, but were intending to make, obvious concern this was going to be a terrorist spectacular in Belgium, in Europe, in the heart of the west.

TAPPER: All right, that's fascinating information. Breaking news from Paul Cruickshank, CNN terror analyst, thank you so much. It's very, very disturbing news and information. Paul will have more on that later on CNN.

That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I now turn you over to Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM," who will continue to cover this breaking and evolving story out of Europe -- Wolf.