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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With Ohio Congressman Michael Turner; Terror Dragnet; U.S. Concerned Over Violence in Yemen; Boko Haram Hostages Freed; Authorities Hunting Alleged Ring Leader of Belgian Terror Cell

Aired January 19, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: A wanted man who could explain the madness behind the Paris attacks, he is already in a French interrogation room. What is he saying?

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The world lead. They found his DNA in a terrorist's car, the one that dropped Amedy Coulibaly off at that kosher supermarket so he could kill Jews. Now, the public may not know his name, but French officials already have him in custody. Could he be the key to stopping the next wave of terrorist attacks?

Kim Jong-un called that recent stoner movie an act of war, but a new report says the NSA may have fired the first shot in a sort of digital war against North Korea back in 2010.

Plus, investigators finally listening to AirAsia 8501's final moments before it lost contact, what they're learning from the pilots' final words. Was it terrorism? Was it something else? What was it?

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin today with our world lead, the counterterrorist dragnet tightening across Europe, with at least one possibly key suspect in custody. As security forces round up more suspects in Belgium, for instance, authorities making five more arrests, Greek forces collaring four men, including an Algerian now on his way to law enforcement in Belgium.

European streets remain dotted with military personnel over heightened concerns that as many as 20 sleeper cells could possibly be putting their terrorist plans into motion at any moment. Now, this is all happening as French police get what could be a major break in this investigation.

One of two men whose DNA ties them to the terrorist who shot up that kosher supermarket is already in Paris police custody today. Today, a source familiar with the Paris investigation says a man whose DNA puts him in the same car, the one Coulibaly used to get to the supermarket scene, is one of the nine suspected terrorists snagged in earlier police raids.

Now, it remains unclear if this still unidentified man drove Coulibaly to that kosher supermarket, where he took hostages and killed four innocent men before French police ultimately took him down. French police also hunting for yet another suspect whose DNA was found on Coulibaly's gun magazine, all this as it's becoming increasingly clear that French intelligence failed to connect the dots, and that could have helped them prevent this attack.

Let's begin right now with CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown, who is live in Paris.

Pamela, these nine people held in custody, including the one whose DNA links him to Coulibaly, French police have until tomorrow to charge them one way or the other. Is there any indication from Paris officials what they might do?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, if the suspects are charged, Jake, then they will have to appear in front of a judge likely tomorrow, so at that point, we could find out who the suspects are.

Those that are not charged, though, of course, we will not find out who they are. They are still within that 96-hour window of questioning, all of this as we learn about a series of missteps among French intelligence agencies leading up to the Paris attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): French authorities are focused on two people whose DNA links them to Amedy Coulibaly, DNA found on an ammunition magazine of his and inside the car thought to have taken Coulibaly to the supermarket where he killed four people.

A source close to the investigation says one of them is already among the nine in custody in Paris. His DNA was found in that car. Tonight, authorities are continuing to search for Coulibaly's partner, Hayat Boumeddiene. But she is thought to be far away on the run in Syria.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is obviously a larger cell that we have initially anticipated. We have today mainly more than 4,000 European Union citizens or residents involved in the jihad in Syria and Iraq.

BROWN: A series of communication lapses and delays by French intelligence agencies are shedding new light on why the Kouachi brothers may have fallen off their radar.

Authorities began monitoring the brothers in 2011, but not their computers, which sources tell CNN contain several videos and sermons of the American al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. And then in February 2014, one French agency received an alert about one of the Kouachi brothers' phones, but didn't pass on the details to France's main domestic spy agency until four months later, when both brothers had already been taken off surveillance.

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: There's no question that I think the failure to be able to have prevented the attack that took place in Paris was an intelligence failure. BROWN: In an exclusive interview with CNN, former CIA head Leon

Panetta said Europe needs to be more aggressive with counterterrorism operations.

PANETTA: The problem is in dealing with those in the various European areas, where there is, frankly, less aggressiveness at going after these individuals when they return.

BROWN (on camera): As security is being beefed up across Europe, here in Paris, police are guarding potential targets like this news station behind me and Jewish sites. And in Belgium, soldiers are patrolling the streets there for the first time in 30 years.

(voice-over): Tonight, Belgian authorities are waiting for a 33-year- old Algerian man arrested Sunday in Greece to be extradited in connection to the foiled plot by ISIS foreign fighters who allegedly wanted to murder police officers in Belgium.

Several suspects believed to be linked to the terrorist cell are in custody, but a senior Belgian counterterrorism official tells CNN the group's ringleader, who is considered a key ISIS operative, is still on the run.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And today in Belgium, E.U. foreign ministers met today to discuss counterterrorism strategies, among them, better information and intelligence sharing among E.U. countries and strengthening ties with Muslim countries -- Jake.

TAPPER: Pamela Brown in Paris, thanks so much.

Let's go now to Phil Black. He's live in Brussels, Belgium.

Phil, as Pamela reported, Belgian police are waiting for this 33-year- old Algerian suspect to be extradited from Greece to get to Belgium. They also have a man named Marouane El Bali in custody. Police believe he was the third person in that dramatic raid last week, the only one who survived. CNN spoke to his lawyer today. What does he have to say about his client?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, just an unfortunate coincidence, that's how Marouane El Bali explains his presence at that property at the time it was raided by police.

And you're right. It was a dramatic raid. Two suspects were killed there. But El Bali says that he was not involved in international terrorism, he was there at that time because he was doing a favor for his mom. He says his mom had asked him to drop off a pair of Nike running shoes to one of the men who was subsequently killed during the police raid.

He says he was there when suddenly the police arrived. He said the police started shooting first and he was shocked to see these other two men pick up weapons and return fire. He says he had no idea they were involved in terrorism. He didn't really know them. He escaped by jumping out a window.

That was when he was arrested. He's 25 years old. He lives in Brussels of Moroccan descent, works as a security guard. His lawyer says he has never had any trouble with the law, has no interest in extremist Islam, and has no interest, has never been to Syria or anything like that.

But despite that, he remains in custody tonight, and along with four other Belgian nationals, he has been charged with plotting this very serious terror attack, the authorities say, targeting police officers on the streets of Belgium -- Jake.

TAPPER: Phil Black in Belgium, thank you so much.

I want to bring in Republican Congressman Mike Turner. He's a member of the House Intelligence Committee. He joins me on the phone right now.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

Why did French intelligence, do you think, fail to translate this intelligence into an operation to stop these terrorists? What was the breakdown?

REP. MICHAEL TURNER (R), OHIO: I think certainly we don't know at this point.

But there certainly is a reluctance at times to take action while you're trying to balance the critical information you're receiving of those who might be involved in terrorism with people's individual rights and also not taking action too soon.

But at the same time, you have to balance coordination of this. And that's what certainly the 9/11 Commission said after we did the investigation of what had occurred here in the United States. You also have to make certain that you have the cross-collaboration of your own intelligence and policing forces, so that you have the most critical information to be able to take action.

TAPPER: What it sounds like from various reports is that French intelligence following the Kouachi brothers determined that they had turned to basic crime, counterfeiting, and kind of just decided to stop following him, given that they didn't think that they were involved in Islamic extremism.

It turns out, at least according to some reports, that that counterfeiting was specifically to fund the terrorist attack. How can intelligence officials, how can law enforcement tell such a thing?

TURNER: That's one of those things that I think are cross- jurisdictional also, where when you have someone who is involved in any criminal activity and at the same time that you have enough information that indicates that they could be a terrorism threat, you certainly want to put that at the top of your list and take action on any criminal activity, because they certainly can hold them, hold them accountable, even prosecute them for crimes unrelated to terrorism, even if your underlying concern brought them first to your attention based upon the terrorist threat.

TAPPER: Congressman, one of the things we have heard is that they simply do not have in France enough members of the law enforcement and counterterrorism community to monitor all of the hundreds of people who went from France or other parts of Europe into Syria, fought alongside al Qaeda, the al-Nusra Front, or ISIS, and then came back.

Do we in the United States have enough people in law enforcement and counterterrorism to follow all of the people coming back from the battlefield in Iraq and Syria?

TURNER: Well, we are certainly, I think, ahead of the curve here. And we certainly have dedicated a significant amount of resources.

But, Jake, you bring up a very good point here, and that is the coordination of resources through all of Western nations. These terrorist organizations coordinate and communicate and coordinate their resources and their deployment without in reference to any international lines.

And our ability to work with the French, to work with our NATO partners and to work with our own intelligence agencies and security forces is really critical. I think this gives us an opportunity with what's happened in Europe to reevaluate how we do that coordination.

Many times, there's information, for example, that the E.U. has who are members of the E.U. that is not shared with NATO or is not shared with the United States because we're not members. And I think this is an opportunity for us to revisit, how do we all make certain we have the most actionable information to lessen the threat?

TAPPER: Congressman, we have seen people rally in solidarity with Paris, of course, but we have also seen in the last few days protests against "Charlie Hebdo" depicting Mohammed on its cover, inside its pages, including today in Chechnya, yesterday in Niger, where there was some loss of life, last week in Pakistan.

What do you take from these scenes?

TURNER: You know, Jake, I think this is in sharp contrast to today's celebration of the legacy of Martin Luther King, where we celebrate his legacy of tolerance and peace.

As to the issue of content and objections and protests, we also have to, though, look very closely at that what we are dealing with is Islamic terrorism and that that terrorism that -- which will kill someone over their opinion or their statements or their beliefs or their freedom of expression just cannot be tolerated and must be actioned.

TAPPER: Congressman Mike Turner, Republican from Ohio, member of the House Intelligence Committee, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

Police killed two terrorists and arrested one at this house in Belgium last week, but what about the man behind the operation? The hunt for the ringleader,that's heating up. Are police any closer to finding him?

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

In our other world lead, U.S. officials say they are ready to evacuate the American embassy in Sana'a, Yemen, at a moment's notice. Nine people were killed today and more than 60 wounded in violent clashes between Yemeni government forces and Iran-backed Shiite rebels accused of trying to stage a coups. A fragile ceasefire has taken hold but the growing instability could create an even larger safe haven for al Qaeda in Yemen which claimed responsibility for the "Charlie Hebdo" slaughter in France.

Let's go right to CNN senior international correspondent now, Nick Paton Walsh. He joins us live from the Yemeni capital, Sana'a.

Nick, how stable is the cease-fire and what caused this latest round of fighting?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For now, the cease-fire is holding but what's absolutely key are the talks going on behind closed doors, and the hope that tomorrow, somehow the sides who were on the streets slugging it out doing in an artillery duel, frankly, to control the presidential administration will now find some sort of negotiable compromise at the table which means they can remove themselves from positions they currently occupy, that's the Houthis, pretty much around both the presidential administration, the republican palace, to effectively, according to some presidential backers, blockading the P.M. into his home there and also effectively very close towards the presidential administration.

It all started really, Jake, because the chief of staff was abducted 48 hours ago by the Houthis. That made some officials concerned they could be next on the Houthis list for, quote, "detention". They put in security measures. The Houthis didn't like the closure of some of the roads the presidential guard closed. Clashes started, no one knows who began them but that led to the artillery duel I was talking about over the presidential administration.

A bid for a cease-fire but frankly, as the P.M. left those talks over a cease-fire, he was attacked. The Houthis were attacked when they attended those talks and tried to leave as well. It all seemed very precarious but now dark has fallen and we have an eerie quiet occasionally punctuated. It may hold potentially, but all rests on those talks happening right now.

TAPPER: The U.S. has helicopters standing by in case they need to evacuate the U.S. embassy there. Is it really that unstable that the U.S. might have to evacuate the embassy?

WALSH: I think post-Benghazi the U.S. obviously are very cautious and have everything in place in the event this does spiral out of control. I have to say, I was at the embassy about seven, eight hours ago. They were pretty calm. They said their numbers hadn't really been decreased because of the situation here and even their consular services were open to American citizen. So, it does comparatively stable for now.

The problem really, Jake, is the political process is extraordinarily tenuous. There are so many different groups want to get their way out of this particular compromise and if it begins to falter or fail, there are also a lot of not particularly well commanded and controlled military on the streets. Now, the question really is if the table talks do generate, does everybody go home. That's a big question. And every day, this country slips into chaos is a better day for al Qaeda and the guys behind the attacks on "Charlie Hebdo" -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, reporting from Yemen --thank you. Please stay safe.

Turning now to the terrorists wreaking havoc in Africa. Boko Haram, the militant Islamic group, kidnapped 80 hostages over the weekend in Northern Cameroon but word today that 24 of them have been rescued. That still, of course, means 56 remain in the hands of the vile terrorist group. Many of those captured were women and children.

Now, entering Cameroon as renewed concerns that the Islamic organization is expanding its reach.

CNN international correspondent Diana Magnay is live in Johannesburg, South Africa. She has all the latest.

Diane, what details do we have on the operation that freed some of the hostages?

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that this was the largest kidnapping that Boko Haram has conducted on Cameroonian territory. It's done plenty of cross-border raids before but since the beginning of January, it's really upped the tempo, targeting military installations and this time, targeting two villages and taking 80 people hostage.

Cameroon has 7,000 troops up in the far north precisely because of the threat Boko Haram poses. One of the battalions called the mobile intervention battalion clearly gave chase to the Nigerian Boko Haram militants as they fled back towards the border and managed at some point to secure the release of 24 of those hostages.

But as you say, 56 are presumably still in the hands of Boko Haram somewhere in that border region where Boko Haram has holed itself up, where Nigeria, Niger, Chad and Cameroon all meet, and also on the islands of Lake Chad -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Diana, what do we know about these 56, many of them women and children, still being held captive? Is Boko Haram making a demand for ransom? Do we know anything about their status?

MAGNAY: Well, Boko Haram certainly hasn't said anything yet, as is their want. Look back at the Chibok girls. We have heard little about their fate. There was discussion about some kind of cease-fire in negotiations

with the government about setting them free. That was clearly scoffed at by the head of Boko Haram, who then said most of them had been married off.

This spate of kidnappings continued. That was last April. It's gone on all the way through.

So, the most that we can expect is that the girls presumably some have been married off, possibly some of the boys have been forcibly recruited to help in Boko Haram's growing insurgency, an insurgency that really is gathering pace across borders now, not just in the northeast of Nigeria but beyond that.

That is why the Chadian government has now committed some 2,000 troops to help Cameroon in its efforts to fight Boko Haram and that is an effort that really, the international community is trying to broaden out so that it's not just Cameroon and Chad joining forces, but that all the regional powers actually manage to get together and bring a more coordinated multi-national joint task force to the problem of combating Boko Haram -- Jake.

TAPPER: Something needs to be done more than 1,300 killed by Boko Haram since 2009.

Diana Magnay in Johannesburg, thank you so much.

Coming up on THE LEAD, investigators across the globe working to untangle the jihadist web that struck in Paris and was hours away from attacking in Belgium. We are just now learning some new information about that terrorist network and we will bring you that breaking news, those developments, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

We have some breaking news to share with you in our world lead. The combined police forces of an entire continent are focused on finding one man, the alleged ringleader behind the foiled Belgian terrorist plot to kidnap and kill police in that country.

Let's go right to CNN terror analyst Paul Cruickshank.

Paul, there has been a lot of attention on this guy caught in Greece who is now being extradited to Belgium. What can you tell us about him? Is he the ringleader?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: Jake, I was just speaking to a senior Belgian counterterrorism official. The guy that's being extradited, an Algerian, towards Belgium, is not the guy that they suspect is a key ringleader in the plot. But they haven't completely discounted the possibility he also played a significant role in this plot. They want to find out a lot more about this guy, the role that he plays. He may have had a connection to the Belgian Moroccan operative they

suspect was the key ringleader in this plot. He remains at large, still a threat. He's believed to have connections back to the ISIS leadership in Syria. The Belgians are increasingly sure that the senior leadership of ISIS signed off on this plot, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. I also want to bring in CNN counterterrorism analyst Phil Mudd.

Phil, I want to ask you about French intelligence today. It seems as though some clear signals were missed. They got a tip but it took them four months for them to share it with other law enforcement officials in the French government and in that time, the Kouachis effectively disappeared.