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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Contractors Killed in Afghanistan; ISIS Hostage Swap?; Vaccine Recommended for Kids 12 Months & Up; Cuba's President Makes Demands of U.S.

Aired January 29, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news: three American contractors killed in Afghanistan. And the attack appears to be something of an inside job.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The world lead. The cutoff has passed and now the world waits to find out if ISIS has carried out its threat to kill two more hostages.

The national lead, outbreak, a serious children's disease that was once nearly eradicated now spreading dangerously after an outbreak that started at Disneyland. Are some parents to blame?

And in pop culture, if you turn on the TV, he will come. Kevin Costner taking on race in America head on in a project that he started long before Ferguson. We will talk to him about the film that made some in Hollywood very nervous.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

TAPPER: Good afternoon. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper live in New York.

Those stories ahead, but we are going to begin with some breaking news in the world lead concerning the so-called Taliban five. You may recall those are the five individuals that the Obama administration traded last year for captured American Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl.

We are now learning that at least one of these men has returned to a life of terrorism. The swap was controversial at the time for many reasons, including allegations that Bergdahl deserted his post, plus the fact the swap was done without notifying Congress, as required by law, and now this.

CNN's Barbara Starr is breaking this story right now on THE LEAD. She joins us live from the Pentagon.

Barbara, what happened?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Jake.

Several U.S. officials now confirm to me that they do indeed suspect that one of the five detainees has returned to militant activity. Here's what we know. The U.S. conducts a classified program to monitor all of their communications. All five of them are in the Middle East, Persian Gulf country of Qatar, their communications monitored by the U.S. intelligence community.

In the last several months, one of them now has popped up, those communications suspect, that this individual, they will not say which one of the five, has reached out to militants and through those communications, he's now suspected of being back involved in potentially militant activity.

This has sparked a debate inside the U.S. intelligence community, some officials saying there is no direct threat, their communications however being monitored even more closely now. Other officials saying that debate about whether or not there is a threat still open, that they might now classify this man as having been confirmed to return to militant activity.

Here's the bottom line, of course. Of all of the detainees released, about 12 percent, 17 percent of them do return to militant activity. That is known. That is reported to Congress. That is understood. There is always a risk.

But now in this case in particular, a potential political firestorm for the White House -- as you say, Jake, the release of these five men in exchange for Bergdahl was controversial enough, and the Pentagon clearly stepping up the release of more detainees each and every month now, trying to get as many of them out of Gitmo as possible because the White House wants to close that facility down -- Jake.

TAPPER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you so much.

We have more breaking terrorism news just coming in to THE LEAD about three U.S. contractors who were killed in Afghanistan today.

Our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, joins us live from Washington.

Jim, what do you have?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake, a U.S. official confirming that the three contractors killed were Americans, another person killed, an Afghan national.

And I'm told by a U.S. official that -- quote -- "Initially, this looks like an insider attack," though it is still being investigated. As you know, Jake, a consistent problem has been so-called green-on- blue attacks. These are attacks by Afghan forces on U.S. forces or other U.S. personnel there, again, no final word on that, but that scenario is being investigated now.

This took place at the Kabul airport base. There's a major U.S. coalition, I should say, military base just on the north side of that airport in Kabul.

TAPPER: And, Jim, bring us back up to speed on those two hostages being held by the terrorist group ISIS. Is there any word yet whether they are still alive, whether the swap is going to take place? What is the status?

SCIUTTO: There is dead silence, sadly. We are more than six hours past the sunset deadline that was set yesterday in a new recording from ISIS. No word on either of the hostages. Keep in mind, this is the third deadline that ISIS has set in the last week and some of those hostages have survived.

The most worrisome sign, however, is that there still has been no proof of life whatsoever from the beginning of this Jordanian pilot. Without that proof of life, Jordanian officials say there is no negotiation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): The sunset deadline set by ISIS has passed, but the fates of their captives, Jordanian pilot Muath al-Kaseasbeh and Japanese Kenji Goto, remain unknown.

And, crucially, the terror group has yet to meet Jordan's demand for proof that their pilot is still alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, we want to emphasize that we have asked for a proof of life from Da'esh and we have not received anything as of yet. We need a proof of life so we can proceed.

SCIUTTO: Today's deadline is the third that ISIS has set in a little more than a week. The wait began with this video showing two Japanese hostages, Kenji Goto and Haruna Yukawa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the prime minister of Japan.

SCIUTTO: And making the outrageous demand for a $200 million ransom from Japan within 72 hours or both captives would die.

The first deadline passed last Friday and grim proof soon followed that one hostage had been executed, this image showing Mr. Goto holding what appeared to be a photo of Yukawa's headless body. Goto, however, was spared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What it shows is, they are reacting tactically. They no longer have a strategic plan. I think they have been hurt in terms of their leadership and they are just trying to get the best thing going.

SCIUTTO: Days later, a change in demands, ISIS now seeking the release of this convicted female jihadist, Sajida al-Rishawi, imprisoned in Jordan for her role in a 2005 suicide bombing that killed dozens. And ISIS added a new threat. If the swap was not made, the Jordanian pilot, Lieutenant Kaseasbeh, would die along with Goto.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a huge difference between a prisoner swap between warring factions and a ransom request by a terrorist organization to a political party. And that's the key difference.

SCIUTTO: Finally last night, ISIS issued a new ultimatum. Deliver Ms. Rishawi to the Turkish border by sunset today or Lieutenant Kaseasbeh and Mr. Goto would not survive the day.

The relentless back-and-forth has raised hard questions about whether ISIS was truly negotiating at all and whether Jordan made a mistake to try.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are attempting to elevate themselves into the status of a political movement and a state. They are not. They are a terrorist organization.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Jordan does consider this the equivalent of a prisoner swap, something like a prisoner of war swap, despite opposition they have had from others, and they also say that because this convicted terrorist, this female failed suicide bomber did not kill anyone, if only because her suicide vest did not go off, that since she doesn't have blood on her hands, it's a more manageable negotiation.

But by any count, Jake, this is a messy negotiation and these constantly changing deadlines, the lack of the proof of life show just the real difficulty in having any sort of discussion like this with a group like ISIS.

TAPPER: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

The life of Japanese journalist Kenji Goto also hangs in the balance, of course. And, today, we found out that since December, his wife has been exchanging e-mails with the ISIS terrorists who are holding her husband captive.

CNN's Will Ripley joins us now live from Tokyo.

Will, what is the family saying about this?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rinko, Kenji Goto's wife is saying that the last and perhaps final e-mail from ISIS came about 24 hours ago where they said if she did not do everything in her power to get their message out, that her husband in their words would be next, implying that he could very likely be killed if their demand, that sunset deadline passed and they didn't get Sajida al-Rishawi back in the fold.

I want to just play for you a portion of an audio message that she recorded.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RINKO GOTO, WIFE OF ISIS HOSTAGE: My husband and I very young daughters. Our baby girl was only three weeks old when Kenji left. I hope our oldest daughter, who is just 2, will get to see her father again. I want them both to grow up knowing their father.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Jake, Goto's wife said that she has stayed silent until now because she is trying to protect their two daughters from all of this and also because she has been fighting behind the scenes for her husband's release, but she says that she is coming forward now because she fears her husband may have just hours left -- Jake.

TAPPER: Will Ripley live in Tokyo, thank you so much.

Joining me now to discuss all of this is the former commander in chief of U.S. Central Command, General Anthony Zinni. He's also author of the book "Before the First Shots Are Fired."

We have lots to discuss. General, thanks for joining us.

Let's start with Barbara Starr's report that one of the Taliban five who was swapped for Bowe Bergdahl has now, according to Pentagon sources, returned to terrorism. I guess it's about as predictable as the sun coming up. That's why most of these guys were in Gitmo. What's your reaction?

GEN. ANTHONY ZINNI (RET.), FORMER CENTCOM COMMANDER: Well, I think it's inevitable that a percentage of them are going to return to the battlefield. That's the risk you take on the release.

I'm even surprised, as Barbara said, it's as low as 12 percent to 17 percent. But it is a fact of life when they go back that some are going to return or be compelled to return or even re-radicalized in some form.

TAPPER: It's a difficult decision, I suppose, because whether it's one of the Taliban five or whether it's this Iraqi suicide bomber woman that ISIS wants to swap, it's being done to save the life of an innocent, whether Bowe Bergdahl or the ISIS hostages, but releasing these people could theoretically cause even more loss of innocent life.

ZINNI: Yes, I think that's true.

In their perverted sense of how they see the world, I think ISIS and other extremist groups see value in all this. They get plenty of media attention. They could get something like release of prisoners or money for the exchange.

They get in their eyes recognition by another state that is forced to do business with them. And I think, also, they see it as a way of maybe turning the people of the government they're dealing with against the war or their government's support for the war. Again, in their sense of the way they see the world, there are all upsides to what they're doing.

TAPPER: Practically speaking, is a ransom or a hostage swap preferable? Which one is least likely to cause the death of innocent people at the end of the day?

ZINNI: Well, I would worry more about the money.

When you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars, you can imagine what that might be spent on in terms of weapons systems, training of their people, and a whole host of things that that could bring. If you're giving up a handful of people or an individual, that probably is less potentially damaging or destructive down the road.

Of course, the Israelis gave up a thousand prisoners for their one soldier. That may be a little bit different situation. They may be better able to track those that they release. But I do think the money is more damaging in the end.

TAPPER: Speaking of tracking, these five individuals, the Taliban five, they were originally sent to Qatar, required to stay there for a year, and they, of course, were supposed to be monitored by the Qatar government. Do you think that's happening? Can such a situation even be relied upon by the U.S. government?

ZINNI: Well, I think we have to have our own means of tracking.

And, obviously, there is some responsibility that falls on the Qataris in terms of monitoring them and controlling their movements. It wasn't clear to me coming from what Barbara said that they had actually returned to Afghanistan and onto the battlefield, as you might say, or if they are in some ways communicating with the Taliban.

But if they have left and have gone back to Afghanistan, I think there's going to be some serious repercussions, especially with our relationships with the Qatari.

TAPPER: General Anthony Zinni, thank you, as always, for your insight. We appreciate it.

In our national lead, another state racing to contain a possible measles outbreak connected to the Disney outbreak, 1,000 people potentially exposed. Health officials are now trying to track down anyone who visited a grocery store, a hospital and a post office where the infected people are known to have been, this as the outrage builds from parents who want to know, why do pets have to be vaccinated, but not children?

That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

The national lead now -- a growing measles outbreak has sparked an emotional debate over vaccinations and whether children who do not get them should be banned from schools or if their parents should be held legally accountable for any spread of the disease that results. Fifty-two cases alone can be traced to a recent outbreak at Disneyland in California. California also happens to be something of a home base for the anti-vaccination movement with some parents still clinging to now debunked theories that childhood vaccinations leads to autism.

Now, while some of these parents think the decision to vaccinate a child is their personal one, it doesn't quite work that way. Those who do not vaccinate their children can potentially spread the disease to children too young to get vaccinated or to those children whose immune systems were too weak to get the vaccine. That's why the Centers for Disease Control insists that all children medically cleared to get a vaccine should get one.

I'm joined now by Gina Piazza, a mom who wrote a letter to "The Los Angeles Times" speaking out against the anti-vaccine movement.

Gina, thanks so much for being here.

First of all, where do your kids go to school, how old are they and what's your concern? Is there a big problem in your school?

GINA PIAZZA, PARENT UPSET BY VACCINE OPPONENTS: Hi, Jake. Yes, thank you for having me.

My son -- he goes to Walters School of Orange County in Orange County. He's 7 and he's in second grade. And this is an ongoing concern year after year. Last year, it was the whooping cough. This year, it's the measles. And it's a constant concern. I fully vaccinate, always have, on schedule, and it's an ongoing conversation in my circle of friends.

TAPPER: What's driving the anti-vaccine trend among parents at that school? What do they say? Do they think their kids are going to get autism? Do they just not want to put chemicals in their kids' bodies? What's the justification?

PIAZZA: It's a little bit of everything. I believe it's the chemical aspect, mistrust of the pharmaceutical companies' ingredients and I also have to say that a lot of them see Dr. Sears, and Dr. Sears is a big factor. He promotes this, in public he says that vaccinations, he backs them 100 percent yet in his office, that's not so.

TAPPER: What do you say to the parents who say, and obviously I do not agree with this, but what do you say to the parents who say, hey, it's my child, it's my choice, it's none of your business? What's your response?

PIAZZA: I say it is my business, because I have family and friends that are not yet old enough to be vaccinated and also, we live in this world together. We all travel, we all go to other places which is Disneyland is a perfect example. When something can spread very quickly out of our control, and as far as I'm concerned, I have to take control of my family and I vaccinate and I wish everybody else would do the same and protect the most vulnerable in our society.

TAPPER: This is a disease that was also wiped out basically about a decade ago, now cases of measles on the rise. Has this recent outbreak changed any attitudes at your son's school? Do they say, oh, maybe I should have gotten my child vaccinated?

PIAZZA: You know, right now we are working with the school. My husband has a meeting next week, actually, with the school board and the parent council to address this very thing. So, we are working with the school to get the word out, the education out that it would be best, but it doesn't seem like as of today, that that's the consensus. It's -- there's a no conversation basically.

TAPPER: I also feel bad for these poor children who aren't making these decisions, they are not informed, they are 1, 2, 3 years old.

Gina Piazza, thank you so much. We appreciate your time. Good luck with your fight.

PIAZZA: Thank you, Jack -- thank you, Jake, very much.

TAPPER: When we come back, just when it looked as though the U.S. and Cuba were turning something of a corner, Raul Castro starts making demands, including compensation for economic damages. Is this going to derail all efforts to reestablish relations?

Plus, authorities now say the copilot flying AirAsia 8501 was behind the wheel when it crashed into the ocean. Why wasn't the captain with so much more experience at the controls?

All that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

Some trouble in diplomacy world, in the world lead. Cuban President Raul Castro just threw a fairly big road block in front of President Obama's path to normalized relations between the two countries. In a speech at a Latin American summit yesterday, Castro called on the U.S. to give back control of its military base at Guantanamo Bay and that's not all. He wants the U.S. to fork over hundreds of millions of dollars to make up for decades of economic sanctions.

I'm joined now by senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta.

Jim, Cuba would seem to have everything to lose if this Obama effort fails. What is Castro's end game here?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to figure out, Jake. They may just be blowing some steam, who knows? But White House officials insist these latest demands from Cuba's leader Raul Castro won't stand in the way of the administration's efforts to reestablish relations with the island. But the comments are giving the White House a reality check Havana style.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): Little more than a month after the release of American aid worker Alan Gross from a Cuban prison ushered in a new era between Washington and Havana, there's a chill in the air between these Cold War adversaries.

Now, that the U.S. has offered to restore diplomatic ties with the island, Cuban President Raul Castro is making some big demands. For starters, the return of the Guantanamo naval base to Cuba, an end to the decades-long trade embargo, stopping all U.S.-run TV and radio broadcasts on the island and compensation, Castro says, for economic damages.

RAUL CATRO, CUBAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The principal problem has not been resolved. The economic, commercial and financial blockade that provokes enormous hum and economic damage is a violation of international law that ought to be overturned.

ACOSTA: In response, the White House is now cautioning its outreach to Cuba will take some time.

(on camera): Is the United States willing to do any of those things?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think, Jim, what his comments highlight is that there is a pretty clear difference between reestablishing diplomatic relations and carrying out the longer process of normalizing relations.

ACOSTA (voice-over): The reaction from Cuban-American lawmakers on Capitol Hill was swift: We told you so.

REP. ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN (R), FLORIDA: President Obama will soon find out what the Cuban exile community has known for over 50 years. The best that you can say about Raul Castro is that he's a murderous thug, a thief and a liar. And I'm being kind.

ACOSTA: But major changes are already in motion. The travel site Kayak is now posting flight information for Americans who want to book tickets to Cuba. Those consumers still have to meet U.S. travel restrictions but supporters of the new U.S. policy on Cuba say even the Castros won't be able to stop what's coming.

TOMAS BILBAO, CUBA STUDY GROUP: I think we shouldn't be derailed by the fact that we are dealing with a difficult totalitarian government, and if we allow the Cuban government to determine what steps we do or do not take, we are in essence putting our foreign policy in the hands of an authoritarian state.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, as for that eye-popping demand from Castro that the U.S. give up Guantanamo, the White House was crystal clear on that point today, Jake, saying that is a nonstarter. But make no mistake, they were not breaking out the mojitos today over here at the White House. They are pretty concerned about what Castro had to say -- Jake.

TAPPER: I'm sure not. Jim Acosta, thank you so much.