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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Winter Storm; Delta Jet Skids Off Runway; Hillary Clinton Under Fire Over E-Mails; Delta Flight Skids Off LaGuardia Runway; Snow & Ice Impacting 22 States

Aired March 05, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: A Delta flight almost ends up in New York's East River, thanks to the winter that just won't stop.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The national lead: flight after flight canceled because of this wild winter weather. And now we have firsthand evidence of just why it's so dangerous to fly in these conditions, as a plane skids off the runway of a snowy New York tarmac. We will talk to two passengers who were on board.

Also in national today: Parents normally worry about their teens getting home from the prom in one piece, but now, in a new bulletin, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security are telling every single police officer from coast to coast they need to look out for high school and college kids trying to join ISIS.

And the politics lead. First came the subpoenas, then came the tweet. Hillary Clinton says she wants the public to see her e-mails, or at least the ones her team approves of releasing. But the drip, drip, drip of scandal and secrecy has some Democrats now demanding that someone else step up and run for president.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD.

I'm Jake Tapper. We are going to start with the national lead today. One of the busiest airports in this country shut down after a terrifying situation in the middle of a snowstorm. A Delta flight trying to land at New York's La Guardia Airport nearly skidded right off the runway into Flushing Bay on the East River. The plane broke through a fence.

The images just bringing to mind a reality of fear that many of us have as passengers, especially when the pilot is trying to land in turbulent or dangerous conditions like this. Check out this close call. The plane stopped just short of a crash landing into the freezing water on the other side of this runway. The 132 people on board that flight, many of them were forced to climb off the plane, walking on the runway to safety. Twenty-four people were reported hurt, the injuries of three people so severe, they ended up in the hospital.

Let's go to CNN's Will Ripley. He is live at La Guardia.

Will, tell us the latest.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's still snowing here at La Guardia, Jake.

And you talked about those passengers who were able to walk off the plane. Had this plane skidded just a bit further into the water, we might be talking about a very different situation. This is how slick the runway was, according to the passengers who were on that plane. When they landed, the pilot apparently saying there was almost no traction, the plane skidding about 4,000 feet on a 7,000-foot runway, resting just feet away from the water.

This is after other pilots had reported that they did have traction. It shows you how quickly and dangerously conditions are changing as this winter storm hits the area.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY (voice-over): It's a terrifying image for everyone who flies, a Delta passenger jet skidding off a slick and snowy runway at one of America's busiest airports. The flight from Atlanta was coming in for a landing at La Guardia, then lost control, ending up just feet from the water.

JARED FAELLACI, PASSENGER: As soon as we landed, we felt the wheels hit the runway, and we did not feel the wheels take traction, and we started to skid. And we skid to the left side of the runway and we continued to skid. We literally were a couple feet away from heading into that -- to the water.

RIPLEY: Airport officials say the two planes that landed on the runway before the Delta flight reported good braking action; 127 passengers aboard the MD-88 were evacuated from the plane using emergency exits on the wings. Port Authority officials say the emergency chutes did not deploy; 24 people were injured, three taken to the hospital, one of the passengers, New York Giants tight end Larry Donnell, who shot this video.

Port Authority officials dealt with a fuel leak from the plane. The airport remains partially closed with flight cancellations continuing for hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's leaking fuel on the left side of the aircraft heavily.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said leaking fuel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Affirm. His wing is ruptured.

RIPLEY: Moments after the plane lost control, tense communications from air traffic control.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an aircraft off the runway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The airport is closed. The airport is closed. We got a 34. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call 100, say again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tower, you have an aircraft off 31 on the north vehicle service road. Please advise crash rescue. La Guardia Airport is closed at this time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: Right now, only one runway is open and outbound flights are slowly departing. But if you look at the cancellation board, Jake, it is a sea of red. Delays are very common here in the New York area, and some of the nation's busiest airspace, and this is only making things much worse, reports of thousands of flights both delayed and canceled across the country -- Jake.

TAPPER: Will, it looks like it's still coming down there. Is it clearing up at all or is it getting worse, staying the same? What's the condition?

RIPLEY: Yes, the weather conditions, we see the snow. It's coming down. It's sticking to the roads. There are snow removal crews that have been trying to clear that parking lot behind me. They aren't making much progress, even with heavy equipment, which means that the slick -- it's really slippery even to stand out here right now as well.

You can imagine they are working extra hard to keep that one single runway safe for the planes that are trying to take off.

TAPPER: Will Ripley with a scary day for passengers at La Guardia. Will, thank you so much.

Joining us now live from New York are two of those passengers, Sam Stern and his wife, Roxanne Joffe, from Sarasota, Florida.

Thank you to both for being here. We are so glad you're OK. How are you feeling? Are you physically hurt in any way?

ROXANNE JOFFE, PASSENGER: No. Other than a little whiplash and post- shock, we're -- I'm feeling OK, physically fine.

TAPPER: So, Sam, Sam, you say that everything was fine until the plane came in for the landing at La Guardia. What happened then?

SAM STERN, PASSENGER: Yes, we felt the plane touch down. And as it touched down, you couldn't feel any traction on the wheels, and it was just like being in a car, and it started skidding, skidding to the left, and we quickly realized that the plane -- that they had no control of the plane.

TAPPER: And how did passengers react, Sam?

STERN: It was really -- the passengers, every -- it was like -- it was eerily silent on the plane. And everybody -- there was no noise. It was total silence.

TAPPER: And, Roxanne, what were the pilot and crew saying? Were they telling people to stay in their seats, to fasten up, to...

JOFFE: Yes, it took a few minutes, maybe a minute for the stewardesses to stand up.

And they were very calm, but they did indicate that we had to get off the plane as fast as possible. And there actually was only one exit. There wasn't more than one exit.

TAPPER: Sam, were there any crash warnings from the pilot telling people to brace for impact, anything like that?

STERN: No. The -- my wife recalled that they did say before we landed that they -- we were just cleared. They had opened up the runway again for us to clear. I don't think that was the exact words. I think Roxanne can tell you a little bit better about that.

TAPPER: Well, what did they say, Roxanne? What did he say?

JOFFE: Well, they announced that we were in a holding pattern, and then within three to five minutes announced that we were landing.

TAPPER: Sam, you were sitting in the emergency exit row. And after the plane came to a stop, you opened the emergency door. What happened?

STERN: Yes, they instructed us to open the emergency door. I pulled on the lever and moved it in and we -- another passenger helped me clear the way on the seat. I was the first one out the window, got to the wing and then slid off the wing and there were people on the ground to greet us -- or to help us, rather, as we got off the plane.

And then single file, one by one, people came off the plane.

TAPPER: Did they grab their stuff first, or did they just go?

STERN: They instructed us not to take anything with us.

TAPPER: And is that on the slide, so the slide did inflate?

JOFFE: No.

STERN: No, it was on the wing. So, the wing was -- we came out of the door -- out of the window, rather, and just sat down on the wing and slid off, slid down the wing.

TAPPER: Did it sound like a regular landing up until the moment that it started to slide? Did you hear the thrusters deploy?

STERN: Everything seemed normal to me. Everything sounded fine. And it was just at that moment of impact, or that moment of contact, I would say, that we started to lose control.

JOFFE: Yes.

STERN: So, I had no fear. And I thought everything was normal until that point. TAPPER: Roxanne, the Port Authority's defending the decision to allow

the plane to land at La Guardia. Obviously, a lot of other planes had landed with no apparent incident. What's your reaction? Do you fault the Port Authority? Do you fault Delta?

JOFFE: I do. I do. I do fault Delta and I do fault the Port Authority, because the plane should never have left in the first place.

And I don't know who made that decision, but whoever did made the wrong decision.

TAPPER: Sam Stern, what's your take?

STERN: Well, we fly an awful lot and we put our faith in Delta. And, you know, it obviously didn't work out today. So, you know, I understand things can change at a moment's notice, so I don't -- I'm not really placing any blame on anybody.

TAPPER: Looking right now at how close you were to going into the water, theoretically, did you have any idea that this was what was at the end of the runway, or was it you didn't even have time to think that far ahead, you were just dealing with the fright of sliding?

JOFFE: I was sitting at the ruptured wing, so I felt like we were actually in the water...

TAPPER: Oh, wow.

JOFFE: ... because I could see through the wing. So I did. I don't think Sam did, because he was further back.

STERN: Yes, I was on the other side of the plane. I had no idea. I know the people -- person that sat directly opposite of me in the exit row, the other exit row, told me he was -- he was immediately flashing on the plane that went into the river a few years ago, and he thought we were going in the water.

JOFFE: Yes. I did, too.

TAPPER: This is kind of an uncomfortable question to ask, but did you think that this was it?

JOFFE: Yes. I did. I did.

STERN: I'm still in shock. It's really starting to hit me as I watch the footage that you're showing on TV. And it really -- it was a frightening experience.

TAPPER: Well, we are so glad that you're both OK.

Sam Stern and Roxanne Joffe, thanks so much for being with us. Good luck calming down, recovering and everything you need to do.

(CROSSTALK)

STERN: Thank you.

JOFFE: Thank you.

TAPPER: Planes land in snow and ice all the time. There are supposed to be tools to prevent something like this from happening. So, was there something different about the way this flight landed? Could the pilot have done anything to prevent the plane from skidding off the runway? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Just imagine 127 passengers clutching those arm rests for dear life as they gritted out what must have been the scariest ride of their lives. Passengers on the Delta flight that careened off a runway at New York's LaGuardia airport today say they felt the wheels bounce, then slide on the snow-covered tarmac.

Tom Foreman's in the CNN virtual room to try to explain why and how this happened.

Tom, so what was going on with the plane's mechanics as the pilot tried to make this landing?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's no indication there was anything wrong with the mechanics. This is a very standard aircraft. Think about the MD-88 kind of standard size for a commercial aircraft, weighs between 150,000 and 80,000 pounds completely empty, so at the end of a flight like this, basically the passengers, cargo and fuel load, it would be somewhere in between there, more on the lower side. The cruising speed is about 500 miles an hour.

All of the physics here matter because of LaGuardia Airport. Look at the length of this runway. You talk about LaGuardia airport, you're talking about a runway about 7,000 feet long, the one they were aiming for, compared to other runways -- look at that Newark, more than 11,000 feet, JFK, more than 14,000 feet. Much more room to work with as they come in and try to execute a series of maneuvers with those mechanics you mentioned, Jake.

Their first one is they've got to get that speed down before they hit the asphalt here to about 155 miles per hour. One of the ways they do that is they flare the aircraft as they bring it in. You felt that when you are in a plane where it feels like it leans back as it touches down. That's flaring. There's a particular warning with this plane that you don't want to flare too much because it flies very well and it will want to take off on you again. That's the first step.

Second step, they've got to reverse the thrusters and apply the brakes and try to crank it down to about 70 miles an hour. So, you are more than halving your speed in a very short distance on this runway and the thrusters are out of the picture and just with the brakes, you try to get it down to 30 miles an hour which would be a taxiing speed for a plane like this. Obviously, it didn't work this time, Jake. Somewhere around the

middle of the runway here, they had lost control completely. And that's where they went off.

What happened with the mechanics? Well, maybe the mechanics all worked right but the flaring issue, maybe the plane never totally set down on the runway. Maybe they just lost traction on the ice the same way you do with your car, or maybe there was some kind of crosswind or something that helped lift a little bit and move it off.

Lot of questions for investigators, Jake.

TAPPER: Many questions. We'll see if we get any answers.

Tom Foreman in the virtual room, thank you so much.

Let's bring in CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien.

We also have with us Deborah Hersman joining us on the phone. She's former chair of the National Transportation Safety Board.

Miles, let me start with you. What happened, do you think? The plane's tail got caught in the wind?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it -- they were landing in a quartering tail wind as pilots call it. The wind was coming from behind the aircraft and a little bit with a crosswind component.

And so, number one, they would have been going a little bit faster relative to the ground than they would have been if they had been landing into the wind which is ideal. The reason they probably would have selected this runway is you can land in worse weather, so even though the wind was not advantageous, it does have better navigation capability to land the airplane. So, that would have probably been why they chose that particular runway.

As you're coming down, you are fighting a crosswind and that causes you to bank the aircraft to compensate for it. Is it possible they -- ideally, what you want to do is land on one side of the main landing gear. Was there a gust which caused them to move over to the side a little bit more, did that cause damage to either the wheel, the brake or the wing or some combination, and they ended up basically out of control on a very slick runway.

That's one possible scenario that investigators can look at here.

TAPPER: Deborah, can you understand why Port Authority allowed this plane to land? Others had landed safely at LaGuardia, no incidents. Is it just a crapshoot or should they have known that the weather was getting worse and stopped landings?

DEBORAH HERSMAN, FORMER NTSB CHAIR (via telephone): You know, airports are very reliant on not just the work that their crews do, the ground crews do on clearing, plowing, treating the runway and testing the braking co-efficient. But they are also relying on reports from pilots coming in about braking conditions. So, the previous crews are probably reporting to air traffic control whether or not they had good, fair or poor braking conditions and they are looking at the first third, the middle third and last third of the runway to understand those.

The problem is when you have a deteriorating weather condition, every aircraft is different. It depends on what speed they're traveling, what the touch-down point is, when they deploy those thrust reversers and brakes. And so, unfortunately, NTSB investigates a lot of accidents where things weren't bad until someone ran off the end of the runway.

TAPPER: Miles, the plane slides did not deploy. That's kind of disturbing, too.

O'BRIEN: Well, it appears you see that tail cone is missing. So, it appears the rear slide, there was a deployment there. If you look at the forward doors, there's -- it's not an advantageous place to get out of the plane because the fence and the berm and everything else. And so, the idea that passengers had to go through those doors over the wing and shimmy down the extended flaps would be the course of action.

However, I will point out, this is -- you know, this is kind of a pet peeve of mine. If the plane wasn't about to explode or burn or sink, really, why not have the passengers sit tight and wait for a truck to come out with some steps, because the injuries occur in the evacuation in these cases. If there's no immediate threat, why not have people sit tight. So, I think that's something that should be considered. I think the NTSB will be considering this as time goes on.

TAPPER: Deborah, I thought that airlines had reached a point where they now canceled hundreds if not thousands of flights in anticipation of bad weather, but then this incident happened today. Is there still too much pressure, commercial pressure to get places even in bad weather?

HERSMAN: Look, I think there's tremendous pressure all over, whether you're talking about the airlines or anything else. We can look at the news and we see backups, hundreds of travelers stranded on the highways because they couldn't keep up with the weather.

And so, I think the good news is we do see things canceled in advance. That means people are taking it very conservative when it comes to risk. But, unfortunately, events like this show us that we may not be 100 percent there yet and we've got to understand what happened. We are very fortunate, you know, this plane ended up where it was with just the nose over.

But we have seen events at LaGuardia that did not turn out like this, Flight 5050 in 1989, where they ended up in the water. We've got to really make sure we learn from this so we don't see something more catastrophic.

TAPPER: Miles, 24 people hurt, three are in the hospital. What kind of injuries other than the ones you were describing from walking on the tarmac or trying to get off the plane, what kind of injuries do we usually see after an incident like this?

O'BRIEN: Well, a lot of times it's broken or sprained ankles. In this case we have heard about some neck and back injuries, maybe something to do with some sort of whiplash effect potentially in their seats, or maybe the evacuation or some combination of both.

But, you know, that's the kind of injuries we're looking at here. Depending on the health and how nimble a person is, it can be a serious thing going down one of these slides. So, it's something to think about.

TAPPER: All right. Miles O'Brien and Deborah Hersman, thank you both for joining me. Appreciate it.

Coming up on THE LEAD: a major rescue operation under way to help drivers stranded on a highway in the snow. Some have been there for more than 18 hours. No food, no bathrooms, in some cases no heat. What is taking so long to get help to these people?

Plus, a warning from the FBI about an alarming trend. Why are so many American teens falling under the warped spell of ISIS?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back. I'm Jake Tapper. We are back now with the national lead.

We are getting some more incredible images showing just how risky and dangerous it can be to travel in this major winter storm. Take a look.

The snow is falling hard now in New York where that plane skidded off the runway at LaGuardia earlier today, of course. The same weather system is pushing through 22 states. The south is not used to this kind of weather. Almost two feet of snow fell in Kentucky, stranding some drivers for more than 12 hours on I-65. That interstate of course cuts through the heart of Louisville. Further south, it took five trucks to drag a big rig off of ice on a road near Dallas, Texas.

CNN's Joe Johns is out driving around in this mess in the D.C. region.

Joe, are people heeding the warnings and staying off the roads, or is it bumper to bumper out there? What are you seeing?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Very much so. People are staying off the roads.

And, Khalil, if you will just take the camera and look ahead here, we will give you some sense of what's going on.

This is 4:30 Eastern Time. Normally, in the District of Columbia, rush hour would just be beginning and you would see a lot of traffic on this 14th Street Bridge going back and forth. Of course, we're not seeing that today. The government's closed, the schools are closed, and, you know, unlike Kentucky, where you have seen a lot of people trapped in their cars, we haven't had that here in the Washington, D.C. area, but what we have had is a lot of cars trapped and in bad situations, rollovers, that kind of thing.

And the real problem is you get cars stuck on the road because of the road conditions. This all started something like 24 hours ago when rain began in the District of Columbia. It rained all night long, making it impossible for crews to put down salt, to put down sand and treat the roads before the snow came.

When daylight came, then came the snow and you had a whole layer of slush out here in the Washington Metropolitan area, and the plows came through to try to get rid of all of that slush, but it's been snowing so hard that as soon as they get rid of the old snow, more new snow comes in its place -- a difficult situation. That's why people in the east are begging, begging for winter to end.

Here you see some of the plows going the other direction into Virginia, as we enter the District of Columbia right now. They have been working long and hard in Virginia, 12-hour shifts on and off, and quite frankly, it doesn't seem like there's much of an end in sight, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Joe Johns, thank you. Drive safe, my friend.

Meteorologist Jennifer Gray is now with us. She is getting some impressive snowfall numbers from the storm.

Jennifer, Kentucky seemed oddly enough to be in the bull's eye for this one.

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, really the hardest hit. We set records in Kentucky. And you can see this band of purple that stretches all the way through the state.

This is where we had the highest numbers and you can see, I-65 right there, right where all of those people got stuck. We had 23 inches of snowfall in portions of Kentucky.