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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Judge: "I Will Not Have Any Jurors Intimidated"; Six Jurors Seated In Trump Trial; Speaker Johnson: "I Am Not Resigning"; USC Cancels Muslim Valedictorian Speech Citing Safety Concerns; Middle East On Edge As Israel Weighs Response To Iran Attack. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 16, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Talking about all the different sports that are in the Summer Olympics.

[16:00:03]

And there are some that I was shocked to learn still exists.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Trampolining, jumping on a trampoline, I guess for points. Is that what it's for? Is it time?

DEAN: Yes. We'll find out.

SANCHEZ: Break dancing this year is a big one.

DEAN: Used to be called breaking.

SANCHEZ: Breaking, yeah.

DEAN: Yeah. Canoe sprinting.

SANCHEZ: Canoe sprinting, apparently. What else? There's some really odd stuff that I didn't realize were sports. It gives me inspiration. Maybe I could --

DEAN: Maybe, maybe you'll be in the Olympic, yeah.

SANCHEZ: You know what should be an Olympic sport tossing to the next show on time. It's very difficult.

DEAN: That's right. It's hard.

SANCHEZ: You'll see.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Donald Trump's legal team you've been warned.

THE LEAD starts right now.

The OMG moment of the day, judge's stern rebuke in the New York hush money cover up case against Donald Trump. What Mr. Trump did this time that got Judge Merchan so riled up, smack dab in the middle of the jury selection process. Plus, a deep divide on the U.S. Supreme Court on display today as justices challenge whether prosecutors had been overzealous using an abstraction charge against January 6 rioters. It's yet another case that could impact Donald Trump.

And a valedictorian speech canceled. The criticism about the Muslim student that led to objections on the campus of the University of Southern California.

(MUSIC)

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to start today with our law and justice lead, quote: I will not have any jurors intimidated in the courtroom, unquote.

That stern warning this afternoon coming from Judge Juan Merchan, talking about Donald Trump's behavior during day two of his hush money cover up trial in New York City. The judge's admonishment came during the meticulous jury selection process today as lawyers from both the prosecution and the defense consider one by one each and every potential juror deciding who they want to kick off.

That during part of that questioning, the judge says Trump was gesturing and speaking in the direction of one potential juror, a clear violation of court rules. As all of this plays out in the courtroom in New York, we've also just learned the first six jurors in the case have been seated.

Let's get straight to CNN's Kara Scannell, who's live outside the courthouse in Manhattan.

Kara, this is the third trial you've covered with Donald Trump as the defendant. This behavior by Trump is something we have seen before.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jake, we have seen Trump react to things in the courtroom, both in this trial so far and jury selection and also in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case. Trump was admonished by the judge in that case for speaking audibly during testimony by E. Jean Carroll herself. I mean, today, we heard Trump react audibly and started gesturing in the direction of the juror.

This was a juror who was brought in for individual questioning to be asked about a post on social media, of videos showing a type of celebration. The jury was questioned. Trump's lawyers believed that this was an anti-Trump event. It was around the 2020 election which Trump lost to Joe Biden and the jurors said that she was just filming a New York celebration in the streets.

The judge saying that he believed this juror could be fair. He said it looked her in the eye and thought she could be fair and impartial despite posting this video. So he refused to excuse her for cause, but this is just the day two of this trial, and we've already seeing the former president reacting, the judge warning him that he will not allow any juror to be intimidated in his courtroom. TAPPER: And, Kara, these potential jurors were directly asked how they

felt about the defendant while he was sitting right there in the room. Tell us about how some of them answered.

SCANNELL: Yeah. So, we heard a lot of different answers from some of the jurors here. One of them had said that what she had observed about Trump, she said President Trump speaks his mind and id rather have that than someone who's in office, who you don't know what they're thinking.

You know, another juror had said, there is very little we probably agree on policy-wise. Sometimes I get frustrated with it, like anybody does. I have family members that support him. We managed to have a decent conversation about that.

I mean, that's one thing that we did here. Different juror saying that they have friends, they have family members that were pro-Trump, that they were positive on Trumps. So it was not as much as Trump believed that this jury pool would be filled with New Yorkers who are against him.

I mean, one juror just kind of reacted to the essence of Trumps saying he walks into a room and he sets people off one way or the other. And I find that really interesting. This one guy I can do this.

So, Jake, you know, we're hearing jurors have their impressions of Trump. Trump's lawyers trying to dig beneath that to find out if anyone has a bias against Trump.

TAPPER: What more can you tell us about what the potential jurors are saying once they're in the room with Donald Trump?

SCANNELL: So, they're continuing to try to ask questions about their views on Trump and what they think about, you know, this prospect, this trial.

[16:05:07]

We did hear from one juror who was excused because she said she wouldn't be able to miss work for six weeks. Here's what she told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARA MCGEE, DISMISSED POTENTIAL JUROR: On the one hand and its this like massive sense of gravitas and important because you, you know that this is history in the making and whatever the outcome of this is everything going forward, we'll be affected by it.

And at the same time, you walk into the courtroom and you see Trump sitting there. I had never seen him in person before. You see hidden sitting there and its like, oh, it's just a guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: Now, Jake, as you said, six jurors have been seated. We're about a third way there. They need 12 jurors and six alternates. The judge is bringing in a new panel of jurors this afternoon. Jury selection will continue today for a bit more, and then it will begin again on Thursday -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Kara Scannell, thanks so much.

Let's bring in Bill Brennan. He served as an attorney on our 2022 Trump Organization case in front of the same judge as this trial. Also with us, Caroline Polisi, a federal and white-collar criminal defense attorney.

Bill, when we spoke yesterday, you warned about what you called the most dangerous kind of juror, the person who tries to look in present perfectly on paper, but actually has a secret agenda. Now were saying seeing some jurors struck for cause, including one who said that they thought they could be impartial. But in the past had tweeted, lock him up.

How much work goes into digging into the past of these potential jurors by the prosecution and by the defense?

WILLIAM J. BRENNAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jake, I think we do the best we can within the bounds of ethics, and, you know, our abilities. The court gives us a lot of information, social media, which is an all of the cases I'm handling at least, say, 15 years gives us a lot of information and its amazing what people will post on say, Facebook or Instagram and the like.

But I liked the fact that I'm hearing these jurors are interactive. They're speaking their mind. And, you know, in a sense, what I hear this juror said this or President Trump stood up and said that. Really the takeaways in this case is the glass half empty or is it half full? You've got six jurors seated on day one. That's a huge, huge win for everybody.

TAPPER: It is.

BRENNAN: I'm shocked that six jurors are seated this fast.

TAPPER: Yeah, to be a third done with jury selection already.

Caroline, potential jurors are being questioned about media -- social media posts made six years ago, seven years ago, eight years ago. Is there any statute of limitation for social media posts, given the amount of time this past? I mean, you know, there were people who hated Trump in 2015 who are now going to vote for him and vice versa.

CAROLINE POLISI, FEDERAL AND WHITE-COLLAR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, absolutely no, there is no statute of limitations. And just to your point, I can guarantee you that Trump has a team of lawyers, paralegals, jury consultants just scouring through these potential jurors, social media. You see the alacrity with which Todd Blanche noted this. This one particularly killer juror, were talking about, about a social media post from years ago, but, you know, that's not the issue, Jake, really.

There are bound to be obviously the majority of these people will have strong views about Trump that you're just never going to get around that. The issue is whether or not you can put those feelings aside and be fair and impartial.

I agree with Bill, if I'm -- if I'm that offense here, Todd Blanche, and Susan Necheles, they're worried about that one stealth der that is not being candid on these self-reporting questionnaires, that is not answering those questions truthfully in order to get on the jury and have their mind made up already when one way or the other, it's more were in Manhattan, more likely than not, you'll -- you'll get you may get a never Trump or that is never going to vote to acquit but those are the real issues when you get a high-profile case of this nature.

TAPPER: And, Bill, the judge scolded Trump's actions. Apparently, he was motioning and pointing and speaking in towards one specific potential juror. The judge telling Trump's attorneys that he will not have the kind of behavior in the courtroom, he called it a witness intimidation of some sort.

You've been in front of this judge, Judge Merchan.

What do you make of him? What do you make of how he's handled this so far?

BRENNAN: Well, I'll say this, Jake. I wasn't in the room, so, you know, I just have to guess a little bit. I spent eight weeks with Judge Merchan. The guy is a gentleman, he's smart, he runs a tight room.

I'd like to know what time of the day that occurred because, you know, we're all human beings, Jake, we get tired.

[16:10:04]

But President Trump is a gesticulator? He speaks with his hands. I mean, that's what he does and I doubt very much that there was any attempted witness intimidation. It was probably just President Trump being president Trump. And, you know, I'd be -- I'd be surprised if it happened at 9:30 in the morning. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened at 3:00 in the afternoon.

TAPPER: It was 2:30. Yeah, it was 2:30 in the afternoon.

BRENNAN: That's it.

TAPPER: There you go. Pretty good guess.

BRENNAN: Well, if this was a -- then, Jake, of this was a pundit, it'll be a gimme, I hate the nail in the head.

TAPPER: No, absolutely, ten bucks.

BRENNAN: At the end of the day, you're tried. Everybody is.

TAPPER: Yeah.

Caroline, Kara Scannell noted that Trump has a history of not always following the rules inside a court. What happens if he continues those types of actions during trial and isn't there a risk of Judge Merchan being seen as overreacting. I mean, this is a former president.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: This is for Caroline. I'll come back to you and get your thoughts, too.

Caroline?

POLISI: Yeah. I don't envy Judge Merchan's position. He is -- he's really in an untenable position with just a very unique defendant here absolutely. There are sort of escalating measures you can take.

You know, we've seen with the gag order, obviously, how he's going to go down that path, the most severe consequence of which for violation would be throwing him in jail. That's never going to happen. No judge wants to be the judge that throws a former president in jail and logistically, it would be a nightmare.

But in terms of during the trial, he does lets have the option of putting throwing him out of the courtroom, which I think president former President Trump might not mind actually.

TAPPER: Bill, your thoughts?

BRENNAN: I -- Caroline's on the money. My take is, you know, we're -- it's like switching hats. President Trump was the most powerful man in the world for four years. He's now former President Trump. Judge Merchan runs that room and he'll run it. He'll run it. It was very serious demeanor. If he feels that anybody is violated the rules, he'll take action, but I don't think ill overreact.

I -- my prediction is the takeaway of today is six jurors in the box. That's huge, maybe six tomorrow. This case moves on. Everything's going to be fine.

TAPPER: Bill Brennan, Caroline Polisi, thanks to -- thanks so much to both of you.

Coming up, the fireworks on Capitol Hill as yet another House Republican says he wants Mike Johnson out as speaker. Hear the comment made today to CNN's Manu Raju, that next signaled Johnson's days might be numbered.

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[16:16:46]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I am not resigning and it is -- it is in my view an absurd notion that someone would bring a vacate motion when we are simply here trying to do our jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: In our politics lead, that was House Speaker Mike Johnson, Republican of Louisiana, this morning, saying he will not resign after Kentucky Congressman Tom Massie said he will support Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene in bringing motion to vacate to try to oust him.

Here is what Congressman Massie told CNN's Manu Raju.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You want him to resign? You want him to resign?

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Yes, yeah. I asked him to resign.

RAJU: What did he say?

MASSIE: He said he would not. And then I said, well, you're the one who's going to put us into this because the motion is going to get called, okay? Does anybody doubt that? The motion will get called and then he's going to lose more votes than Kevin McCarthy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Maybe. Let's talk with Manu Raju right now.

Manu, first of all, let's start with the alleged offense. Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, they're upset because Speaker Johnson is going to allow a vote on foreign aid packages that have already passed the Senate, right? And he's -- he's actually doing it the way a lot of conservatives want him to. Ukraine as one vote. Israel as one vote. Taiwan as one vote.

So, what's the offense here?

RAJU: Well, they're upset a whole series of decisions that Johnson has made, including his deal to cut -- keep the government open, as well as to allow the passage of a key surveillance law in on this issue is still unclear the process by which the speaker will move this forward. In fact, there's an expectation that each of those bills that you just mentioned could actually be lumped together as one big package and ultimately be sent to the Senate as one big package.

And they don't want to spend a dime more on Ukraine aid. And when I put the question to Marjorie Taylor Greene, herself about what she thinks about mike Johnson saying that he will not resign. She hopes a pressure of this resolution to oust him will push them from the job

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: What was your reaction to the speaker saying he's not going to resign?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Well, certainly, of course, that's what you'd expect him to say right now. But I think maybe as little time goes by , he'll realized that it's really the best choice. REP. MARC MOLINARO (R-NY): Either concept of another motion to vacate

is an utter waste of time and frankly, distraction from really important business.

RAJU: What do you think about the speaker's strategy on Ukraine? Does it make sense to display all these up and cobble it altogether?

REP. GARRET GRAVES (R-LA): In a word? No. Look, the reality is, you have to keep in mind, President Biden asked for Ukraine. President Biden asked for Israel. President Biden asked for Taiwan. And President Biden supports the changes to TikTok.

What are Republicans getting out of this?

REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): I think it's unlikely I would support vacating. We'll see. I mean, the big thing is I want to vote on Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: That last comment is important. That's coming from a Democratic congressman, Adam Smith. We do expect some Democrats would vote to save Mike Johnson here, which is different than the situation that befell Kevin McCarthy, but the timing is still uncertain. In fact, Green and Massie, Jake, are indicating that they have now not made a decision about when to pull the trigger, move ahead with this vote, saying they want to try to line up a successor first, but that's easier said than done -- Jake.

[16:20:05]

TAPPER: All right. Manu Raju, thanks so much.

My panel's with me.

So, Eva McKend, Speaker Johnson, not in a great spot here. And you heard Congressman Massie say that he thinks if there were a vote to vacate, that more Republicans would vote against him, then voted against McCarthy. That's only eight though, we should point it was eight Republicans and all the Democrats.

I don't know that the Democrats are going to join in though.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: I think that this is different this time. We have seen Democrats illustrate a willingness to bail him out.

But listen, I think that this is telling. Congressman Massie, he did not support the effort to oust McCarthy, but Republicans, they feel deeply upset. They thought that in congressman Johnson they got reliable conservative ally. The FISA, their surveillance authority, something that they have railed against for years, something that he could have put up a fight against and actually even joined together with some progressives in Congress to quash that, he didn't even fight on that. And so, that is why you see this I think groundswell of Republicans

willing to take him down at this stage. It could be another big mess in the House.

TAPPER: And, Mike, you heard Republican Congressman Marc Molinaro there saying he's not going to support this effort to get rid of Johnson.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Right.

TAPPER: He thinks it's a waste of time.

Do you think that's where most House Republicans are?

DUBKE: I don't think there's a groundswell. I think that for the most part, you've got a speaker who is listening to the will of his conference and as moving forward with that will. Two members, unfortunately, we've got a one seat majority here. I would like to see some more Democrats step up and actually voice that we have the business of the American people to do and were going to move forward. We've got an election coming up. Let's get to that point.

I don't see more Republican kens throwing in and the number eight that you got thrown out with McCarthy? I don't see where we get to that number.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENATOR: But, Mike, one thing you just said that I wanted to point out, which is you said if Democrats step up and talk about getting back to the business of the country, that says to me, Republicans note that is not a message that they're interested in. Instead, they are interested in distorting, distracting, dividing, clicks, raising money, they're not actually interested --

TAPPER: All of them or just the Marjorie Taylor Greene types?

FINNEY: Well, but that -- but where's the pressure from the ones who truly care about that? Where are they exerting pressure on their colleagues to then say, guys, remember, we're all up for reelection. We're going to have to show we did some work for the American people, not just this performative set that actually Americans know is not about them. It's about the members.

DUBKE: When you're interested in clicks and social media, and how much money you can raise, you don't care what your colleagues are saying.

FINNEY: Of course.

DUBKE: Those colleagues are stepping up in private, let's cut this out. But those few individuals in a very small majority have a very strong voice. If I will say this if the Democrats take control in a majority that's similar, I think that they're going to find that they have individuals in their caucus that act the same way.

We have not had a majority party with this small of a majority and think since the 1940s. (CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Would they -- would they-- would they tank -- would they get rid of their speaker though I guess is a question.

FINNEY: No.

TAPPER: Let's assume that it's Speaker Hakeem Jeffries. You're talking about. Let's say the Squad or whatever. Do you think that they would be willing to get rid of Hakeem Jeffries? Because I doubt it.

DUBKE: Well, I think you're probably right, but I do I think that they would gum up the works and really stop legislation going forward they don't agree with?

TAPPER: Oh, sure.

DUBKE: Absolutely.

TAPPER: Speaking of gumming up the works, I want -- I want to just bring them some -- we have so much to cover today.

And I'm going to come to you, Eva, because there have been all these big pro-Palestine, anti-Israel protests around the country. There was the Golden Gate Bridge was blocked yesterday, I believe.

Republican Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas tweeted this: I encourage people who get stuck behind the pro-Hamas mobs blocking traffic, take matters into your own hands. Its time to put an end to this nonsense that a few minutes later he edited the post. He added to get them out of the way, clarifying, take matters into your own hands to get them out of the way.

Then he followed up with another tweet that read quote, how it should be done, and there's video of a person, an individual dragging protesters. There's a video dragging process, so I guess he's trying to make it clear. Don't run over them with your car.

But, mean, I -- kind of shocking.

MCKEND: It doesn't shock me because Senator Cotton has a long history of making comments that many would deem to be problematic. I remember when he said that slavery was a necessary evil. He's especially made comments that many view to be problematic when it comes to race.

But listen, he has political aspirations that are beyond the Senate. I'm talking about the presidency. I'm talking about the Supreme Court. I've seen him out on the campaign trail and battleground states.

[16:25:01]

And so he is speaking to a very particular constituency when he makes these kinds of comments.

TAPPER: Well, people stuck in traffic can think all sorts of things, but -- DUBKE: No, I'm mostly surprised that Senator Cotton used a video from

France in illustrating --

(CROSSTALK)

DUBKE: That was a video from the French protests in Paris. But beyond that, look, he is -- I am a free speech believer and I don't believe that his tweets were helpful to this. However, individual -- folks that get caught in these traffic jams, especially when you have protests that haven't gone through all of the proper permitting and all of that, and are basically there to disrupt as much as possible -- to your point, that level of frustration boils over. I can see why he put that out.

But he's a smarter politician than that. He needs to think through before he posts.

FINNEY: He's also an elected leader, That is shameful rhetoric from an elected leader. Let's remember, that's also around January 6, he talked about Anglo-American jurisprudence. I mean, going back to some of the themes that you were talking about.

And again, what does America? We're a democracy. What do we do? We're for free speech, so it can't just be free speech for MAGA people, but not for people who protest other things.

TAPPER: I mean, blocking traffic on the Golden Gate Bridge is a pretty extreme thing to do.

FINNEY: It is, but there's law enforcement. There's a way to hand --

TAPPER: I'm not saying you should run over.

FINNEY: Law enforcement knew what they were doing. They know how to handle it. You don't need a senator saying, you know, again, using rhetoric that some will view as permission to be violent, period, full stop.

TAPPER: Thanks one and all. We'll see you in the next block.

Coming up, the disturbing comment that invoked Jesus' metal detectors. Jesus -- I'm sorry, Jesus, metal detectors and murder at a city council meeting that has an activist facing charges.

Plus, why, the University of Southern California is shutting down the commencement speech planned by the valedictorian that the school picked.

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[16:30:48]

TAPPER: In our national lead, the University of Southern California won't allow its valedictorian to speak at its commencement ceremony next month, citing safety concerns due to her views on the Middle East and the passion it all brings out. Shortly after USC named Asna Tabassum valedictorian, a group called Trojans for Israel, it's a pro-Israel student group at USC, criticized USC's decision, saying she, quote, openly traffics antisemitic and anti-Zionist rhetoric. Tabassum's Instagram page is currently listed as private, but in her profile, she links to a site that does call for, quote, the complete abolishment of the state of Israel.

CNN's Nick Watt is live in Los Angeles.

And, Nick, you just spoke with the valedictorian. What did she have to say?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the main thing she had to say is she does not believe one bit that this is about safety and she says that she is going to continue a fight to be reinstated as the speaker. She also said that she wouldn't tell me exactly what the speech was about. She said she's still working on it, but she said that the basic theme was hope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASNA TABASSUM, USC VALEDICTORIAN: But whether or not I planned to speak about Palestine, speak about any sort of conflict in general I think is besides the point. The point here is that the university preemptively made a decision not on the basis of safety, but on the basis of potentially other factors that I think impedes on my freedom of expression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Now, Jake, there were individuals and groups who called for USC to withdraw the invitation and are now thanking USC for doing so. They are pointing to that site. You just mentioned which she links to from her Instagram page that site does call for the complete abolishment of the state of Israel and also called Zionism a racist settler colonial ideology.

I asked her about that and she said that she posted that link three years ago and she stands by it and she said she posted it in the spirit of trying to inform people and to generate academic discourse.

But groups like End Jew Hatred, which fight to keep Jewish students safe on campus, they call it antisemitic vitriol and say that language like that just feeds into what they call a cycle of violence that sees Jewish students on American campuses targeted and harassed -- Jake.

TAPPER: Has USC gone into any more detail about why they consider this the safety concern? What are they saying about their decision to cancel her commencement speech?

WATT: They -- they wouldn't give her a specifics about the threats. They wouldn't give us specifics, but they say that tradition must give way to safety.

And they say this: To be clear: this decision has nothing to do with freedom of speech. There is no free speech entitlement to speak at a commencement. The issue here is how best to maintain campus security and safety, period.

Listen, we've seen American campuses just embroiled in all of this over the past few months, and it looks like this issue at USC is not over yet. She's fighting to be reinstated. The groups that fought for her to be taken off the commencement speech podium, they were also not going to give up.

So watch this space.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Watt, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

About 120 miles north in Bakersfield, California, a pro-Palestinian protesters facing charges over this moment before the city council of Bakersfield last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIDDHI PATEL, ACTIVIST CHARGED WITH MAKING THREATS: Hi there. My name is Riddhi Patel. I'm here to speak in support of the city council introducing a ceasefire resolution, specifically the one United Liberation Front has drafted.

I don't have faith that you'll do this. You guys are all horrible human beings and Jesus probably would have killed you himself. You guys want to criminalize us with metal detectors, we'll see you at your house. We'll murder you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You guys want to criminalize us with metal detectors, we'll see you at your house. We'll murder you.

On Friday, Ms. Patel was charged with 18 felony counts, including making terroristic threats and threatening a public official. She's pleading not guilty and is due back next week.

[16:35:06]

Andrae Gonzales is on that city council. He's also the vice mayor of Bakersfield. He aws there for the exchange.

So, Mr. Gonzales, what was your reaction when she said what she said?

VICE MAYOR ANDRAE GONZALES, BAKERSFIELD, CALIFORNIA: Oh, shocking, was chilling and honestly, it was horrifying to a lot of us on the city council. I just couldn't believe it and it wasn't until the city attorney actually shouted, you know, that is a direct threat that we kind of came to terms with the reality that what had actually been said and it was stunning.

We've heard many comments in the past that are very colorful and in nature but never a direct threat like that.

TAPPER: Today, Patel's public defender responded to CNN's requests for comment and said, quote, many people saw this threat for what it was and did not think it was credible specific, immediate, unconditional, or the other features which would have made it other than anything other than constitutionally protected speech. Ms. Patel is passionate about many political causes, and she is well-known in these circles for being an outspoken advocate, but never for being a violent one, unquote.

That's from Jacob Evans, the deputy public defender. What's your response?

GONZALES: Well, I've known of Ms. Patel for quite some time. She's come to the city council on various different issues and has again, use some pretty outlandish language in the past. Unfortunately, I've also been out in public with friends and for example, one time out to dinner with a friend and Ms. Patel came to my table and cussed me out basically, in part of the whole crowd.

I mean, this is someone who has demonstrated that type of behavior that we've all grown accustomed to but never had she saying that she was going to go to our homes and murder us. I mean, that is --that's taking it to the next level and something that really is concerning.

TAPPER: (AUDIO GAP) how does one way the issues of people getting passionate, heated saying things that they maybe they don't mean with the fact that you have every right to not have your life threatened. Just because you're a deputy mayor doesn't mean that anyone is allowed to do that. No one's allowed to do that to the president. No one's allowed to do that to Donald Trump. Certainly no one's allowed to do it to you.

How do you -- how do you weigh that?

GONZALES: Well, you know, first and foremost, want to hear from the community. We want to hear from our constituents throughout Bakersfield. We're a growing city. We have lots of new opportunities, certainly lots of challenges.

We will want to hear from all four corners of our city and old community groups. And we've tried to afford it so much opportunity as possible. And the public comment period and of our council meetings is the probably the most appropriate way to address concerns.

And so, we listen but when a public speaker, what any individual comes up and says, we will go to your house and murder you, for me, that crosses the line. That's a very specific statement and it is -- it is jarring.

Bakersfield city council's a volunteer job. All of us are working in either nonprofits or retired. We're doing this because we care about our city and we care about its people. We want to help better (AUDIO GAP)

And so to receive a threat like that for many of us, it's -- like I said, it's jarring.

TAPPER: Vice Mayor Andrae Gonzales, thanks for joining us today. Really appreciate it. From Russia and Ukraine, to Israel and Iran, my next guest has unique perspective on why there are so many tense global conflicts right now and the role of the United States in those situations. We'll be right back.

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[16:43:12]

TAPPER: Back in our world lead, the world is holding its breath as Israel's war cabinet is grappling with how to respond to Iran's unprecedented attack over the weekend. After a fifth meeting of Israel's war cabinet today, a U.S. State Department spokesperson says the U.S. still has not formerly heard of Israel's plans for a counter attack.

David Sanger is a White House and national security correspondent for the New York Times. His brand new book, "New Cold Wars: China's Rise, Russia's invasion, and America struggled to defend the West is out today in highly, highly recommended.

David, I have so many questions for you. You've traveled the world with five U.S. presidents and you're -- the fact that you know all these players is an interesting part of this book because you talk about sitting down with this person and five weeks later, your prediction, you know, takes place, et cetera.

How do you think Joe Biden is handling this tinderbox in the Middle East?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah, this one's really hard one to manage. And obviously, he started off with a really rough start in Afghanistan, I think in the book, I dredged that he did a quite good job bringing the allies together for Ukraine and revealing the intelligence publicly in advance.

For this one, it's been one frustration after another, but most of the frustration has been dealing with Bibi Netanyahu. And, you know, there's no way to contain him. There's been bad blood between these two for a long, long time. And this is, of course, Netanyahu's last act. He's got nothing in his future. So, there's very little leverage the U.S.

I think one of the big changes, which is clear from this, nine years ago, when we were negotiating with the Iranians on limiting the nuclear program, guess who was sitting on the us side of the table?

[16:45:02]

The Chinese and the Russians.

TAPPER: Right.

SANGER: In this era of new Cold Wars, they are on the other side. The Russians need Iran to provide them with drones, maybe with missiles in the future. Together with China, they're part of the axis of resistance to the U.S. That's the big change that's taken place here.

TAPPER: Yeah. You could have put Iran on the cover of the book, along with China and Russia. There kind of hinted at it I feel like.

SANGER: Yeah.

TAPPER: The Kremlin today confirmed that Putin spoke with his Iranian counterpart, President Ebrahim Raisi. The Kremlin described this weekend's attack as a, quote, aggravated situation.

Now your book explores the idea of a world unified, a Western world unified by Western liberalism, which, which turns out to be something of a pipe dream and aspirational role, but maybe not an actual fact. How else is Putin leveraging that misplaced post-cold war American optimism that everything was going to be good now?

SANGER: You know, this is a book basically about failed assumptions and the assumption coming out of the Cold War was Russia and China, each for their different reasons, would follow their economic interests, that Putin at the end of the day, cared more about getting as oil and gas flowing into Europe than he cared about territory. That was fundamentally wrong.

And we missed many of the signals along the way. In 2007, he went to Munich security conference. He said there are parts of mother Russia, Peter the Great's Russia, that should be part of Russia today. And we're going to solve this. And no one really listened to him.

Seven years later, he took Crimea. No one really sanctioned him for a year until an airplane was shot down by the -- by the Russians.

TAPPER: Yeah.

SANGER: And the net next year, the German signed, Chancellor Merkel signed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline deal right around Ukraine and said Putin's a reliable supplier.

So what does Vladimir Putin supposed to think, Jake, other than if he takes all of Ukraine, we're going to complain about it and go away.

TAPPER: Yeah.

SANGER: And we're about to go find out whether he's right on that point.

TAPPER: And, in fact, he gave a speech in which he said the fall of the USSR, the Soviet Union, was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century.

SANGER: That's right. But people also think that he wants to restore the USSR.

TAPPER: Right.

SANGER: As I put in the book, he thinks the people who were running the Soviet Union were idiots because they gave way too much authority to the rest of the socialist republics, Ukraine included. And his position is , Ukraine is part of Russia, which by the way, was also the position that Donald Trump's taken with his staff and many others.

TAPPER: Yeah.

You write in the book, there is never a clear line between old world and the new, between traditional conflicts and modern ones. And you note the President Biden entered off with office with a relatively stable world order four years later, of course, not looking very different two wars, the U.S. is involved in Israel and the between Israel and Hamas and Russia and Ukraine. There are fears a wider war in the Middle East with Iran.

How much of the blame can be put on Joe Biden?

SANGER: So, some of it can. I mean, I think that the way that we got out of Afghanistan, I say in the book, getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do. We did it in the worst possible way. I think that may have somewhat encouraged Putin and also made Xi Jinping think the United States is not ready to get involved in wars and conflicts elsewhere. I think Biden, as I said before, did a good job and rallying the world to go do this.

But the fact of the matter is we have to think of ourselves as a superpower that is fully engaged. If were really going to fill these vacuums. And the hard part right now is you have parts of the Republican Party that have clearly gone isolationists, parts of the Democratic Party that aren't so enthused about these conflicts other than the one with Russia, because they believe Russia tried to fix the election for President Trump. That turned the Democrats all into hawks.

So he's having a hard time corralling that, and then meanwhile, you've got a group of European allies who on the one hand, say all the right things. But I just spent three months living in Berlin, the German people, by and large think, well, we'll get past this Ukraine period. And things will be okay with Russia, we'll embrace them again.

The elites all have the view we are in this for 20 or 30 or 40 years, defenses that will match that. What worries me is the elites are probably right here. I think we are back in a world that will be defined by superpower conflict.

TAPPER: The book is "New Cold Wars: China's Rise, Russia's invasion, and America's Struggle to Defend the West". The author is David Sanger of "The New York Times".

Thanks so much, and congratulations on the book.

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SANGER: Thank you.

TAPPER: Great read.

Up next, the desert country, they got a years-worth of rain in half a day. But first, we're on Trump watch this hour, waiting for court to end for the day, possibly get Donald Trumps reaction as some jurors have been picked for the hush money cover up trial.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our leads around the world:

A live look at the New York courthouse where jury selection is underway in Donald Trump's unprecedented hush money cover-up trial. Six jurors have been seated so far. That's one-third of what's needed before the trial can start. Court is expected to run a little later today since its not in session on Wednesdays.

Elsewhere -- Copenhagen, Denmark's historic old stock exchange was on fire today, but not in a good way. Parts of the 17th century building collapsed, including its iconic dragon tail spire. Two bits of good news, officials say nobody was injured and many objects of great historical value were saved from the flames.

From fire to water, on our "Earth Matters" series, Dubai just got clobbered with a years-worth of rain in just 12 hours. The rain caused widespread flooding and forced the airport to suspend operations. A years-worth of rain in Dubai is only about four inches.

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Remember, Dubai is in the Arabian Desert. The rain was caused by an unusually wet weather system over the Gulf of Oman.

And our sports lead, its that time, again, the Olympic torch was kindled today, starting the countdown to the 2024 Summer Games in Paris, 600 torch bearers will take turns carrying the Olympic flame throughout Greece then to France, the journey will last three weeks. The Summer Olympics begin in France in July.

Happening right now, courts still in session, and Donald Trump trial because the judge allows jury selection to go long today. We're live outside the courthouse with new details about what's happening behind closed doors.

Be right back.

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TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, the challenge at the U.S. Supreme Court that could upend cases some 350 Capitol riot defendants' cases. The issue: a single obstruction charge. The debate and arguments today that could even impact Donald Trump's January 6 criminal case.

Plus, the rather dramatic delivery on Capitol Hill today.