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Interview With State Rep. Analise Ortiz (D-AZ); Kamala Harris Campaigns in Arizona Following Near-Total Abortion Ban; House Speaker Meets With Trump; House Voting on FISA Bill. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 12, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:06]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, we're following breaking news here at the top of the hour, the House voting right now on a modified FISA bill.

Let's go straight to Capitol Hill and Lauren Fox for the very latest -- Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna.

Yes, they are just in the midst of voting on this final version of the bill, but a couple of things have unfolded in the last half-an-hour. One of them is that a key amendment that was really important to some of those hard-line Republicans failed. It failed on a tie. The vote was extremely close, 212 to 212.

So what you were seeing play out on the floor right now is a vote on the underlying bill, the final version of this legislation that does not include an amendment that was very important to some of those conservatives that would have required a warrant if an American citizen was picked up in some of those dragnet searches that are part of the federal Intelligence Surveillance Act Section 702.

So, right now, what you're seeing is many more Democrats voting for this legislation than Republicans. Of course, there are some Democrats who are on the side of the privacy concerns that hard-line Republicans have, but this is a very interesting moment for Speaker Johnson.

This is something that a lot of hard-line conservatives are blaming him for saying that this Biggs amendment, this warrant amendment didn't get included. They're frustrated. I just talked to Bob Good, a conservative who said that this is -- the reason it didn't pass was because leadership was opposed to it.

So it's going to be really interesting to see, what does this mean for Johnson's future? I also just spoke to Marjorie Taylor Greene a few minutes ago. I asked her if this makes her more likely to push forward with that motion to vacate. She said that is not what she's saying, but she is very frustrated with Johnson's leadership on this issue -- Brianna. KEILAR: All right.

And so, right now, as we're looking at the vote here, can you see the tally there, Lauren? What are we expecting here, as this is going to play out, timing-wise?

FOX: Well, I think that we are waiting to see whether or not this passes right now.

Yes, I can see the tally. It looks like they are about to call this vote right now. I can't hear exactly what he's saying there at the desk, but this vote is obviously looking like it's going to pass. And we are waiting to see that final announcement.

But one thing I will just keep in mind for you here is that this was an issue that, if the warrant actually passed, it was going to make it very difficult to get this through the United States Senate. The fact that that amendment went down means that it may have an easier time getting through that chamber, getting signed by the president, and enacted before the April 19 deadline, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, and the...

FOX: So you're seeing here that this bill has actually passed.

KEILAR: Yes, it did just pass. We were watching that happen before our eyes there.

Lauren Fox, thank you so much for the very latest on Capitol Hill, this modified surveillance bill passing having to do with Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Thank you for that report -- Jessica.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Well, as that is all unfolding on the House floor, embattled House Speaker Mike Johnson is on his way to Mar-a- Lago. He's going to hold a joint news conference with former President Donald Trump, looking to emphasize their close ties, as Johnson faces a direct challenge to his speakership, as Lauren was alluding to there.

GOP Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is standing by her threat to force a vote to remove Johnson as speaker.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining us now live from West Palm Beach.

And, Kristen, let's start first with what this press conference is supposed to be about, election integrity. Worth noting here that Trump continues to make false claims of widespread fraud in the 2020 election and that Johnson played a key role in Trump's efforts to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 election.

What more can you tell us?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica, we're expecting two things out of today. One, we are told that they are likely to relitigate the 2020 election.

Not surprising, given the fact that Donald Trump still continues to do that at rallies, behind the scenes, all the time. And we know that Johnson was a key player behind the scenes in trying to get that election overturned.

But the other thing that they're going to -- quote, unquote -- "draw attention to" today is this idea of noncitizens voting. This is something that has become somewhat of a Republican rallying cry. Now, I want to be very clear, it does appear from any data that we have that this is a big issue.

And, also, there is a federal law banning noncitizens from voting in federal elections, the kind of elections that both Johnson and Trump would be dealing with. But, again, Republicans have really seized on this issue. Donald Trump has said that Democrats actually want undocumented immigrants coming over the border to help them in the 2024 election.

[13:05:02]

Part of this is linking this issue of elections to immigration, an issue that Republicans know is crucial to so many American voters. We expect them to be talking about this today.

I do want to add a little bit of nuance, just so that we are clear. There are some cities and states who allow noncitizens to vote in local elections, like school board elections, but this, again, is not something that is widespread.

DEAN: All right, Kristen Holmes for us in West Palm Beach, you will be there as that all plays out this afternoon. Thanks so much.

KEILAR: And joining us now to discuss, we have former Republican Congressman of Illinois Joe Walsh and also Sarah Matthews. She served as deputy press secretary during the Trump administration.

Joe, I mean, they're there to promote election integrity, and without irony, no less.

FMR. REP. JOE WALSH (R-IL): Yes, Brianna and Jessica, can we just for a moment pause and not brush by this and get into the politics?

Like, what does it mean that Speaker Johnson's down there by his side? Johnson's down there with Trump to talk about election integrity. Donald Trump tried to overthrow an American election. He's been indicted twice on his efforts to overthrow an American election.

And, Brianna, I'd add this. Donald Trump on the stump at every one of his rallies so far this year is telling his voters again that either he will win or the election will be stolen from him. So, already he's undermining our election.

We cannot become numb to what this is.

DEAN: And, Sarah, it's worth noting -- and Kristen touched on this -- there is no -- federal law prevents any noncitizen from voting. So, no state is allowing that to happen.

There is some nuance with these local school board elections, that sort of thing. We just had that map up. It's almost like we're in upside-down land, where you just -- you have the facts that we just laid out that Joe just talked about. We know that there is a federal law preventing this.

Why do they keep talking about this in this way?

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, it just furthers Trump's narrative that the 2020 election was stolen from him.

And so he wants to spread misinformation like this, as we all know that, federally, these illegal immigrants cannot vote in our election systems. But he wants to perpetuate that narrative that they could because he thinks that it will help him not only prove that -- his claims about the 2020 election, but it also plants the seeds of doubt in case he loses in 2024.

And so I think that that's what he's starting to do. We saw him do this in 2020 when he talked about mail-in voting and how fraudulent it was. It was him trying to plant these seeds, because he knew that there was a chance he could lose to Joe Biden, just as he knows that there is a chance that he could lose in 2024 again.

KEILAR: And, Sarah, just because Johnson is visiting Mar-a-Lago, it doesn't mean this is all going to work out for him with Trump's support.

We should remember that. How do you look at this moment for how this -- for what it could mean when it comes to Johnson's, I guess, trajectory, if you will?

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: I think something that's really important to keep in mind is that loyalty is a one-way street with Donald Trump.

And so, obviously, Speaker Mike Johnson was one of Trump's most vocal kind of spreaders of the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen. He's going down there today to hold this press conference to talk about -- quote -- "election integrity."

And he's doing that all because he knows that he needs to save his speakership, because he's worried that Trump's close ally Marjorie Taylor Greene will force this vote on a motion to vacate and will oust him from the speakership.

But it's kind of pathetic, in my opinion, just because it seems like, right now, Speaker Johnson is a little bit more concerned with keeping his job than actually doing his job. And his job is to put a vote on the floor for Ukraine aid. But he's afraid to do so because he knows that it will upset folks in the conference like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Donald Trump, because he knows that Donald Trump is not supportive of Ukraine aid. But Mike Johnson has a moment to really change the course of history,

honestly, with this Ukraine aid. Ukraine is running out of ammunition, and Putin looks more and more likely to win there if we are not helping them in their fight for freedom. And so, right now, Mike Johnson's down -- going to Mar-a-Lago, trying to kiss the ring to save his job.

But I wish that he would actually do his job.

DEAN: And, Joe, that is a big question, is, is -- will he bring up Ukraine at all while he's down there? Because that is a giant issue in front of him that is, as you just laid out, so very important in the span of history and what it means for Ukraine and its war with Russia.

[13:10:03]

But, beyond that, there are also all of these dynamics at play, which is, you have President Trump, who's running for reelection. You have Mike Johnson, who's trying to save his job. And you have Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's a close ally of Trump's, who's threatening to oust Johnson.

How do you think those dynamics are going to play out both today and in the weeks to come?

WALSH: They can't govern, Jessica. Let's just be honest. My former Republican colleagues cannot govern. And they have proven this over and over.

Look, I have no doubt that Johnson will get on his knees and beg Trump to help him on Ukraine, because I think Johnson wants that vote on the floor, but he just right now doesn't have enough courage to do it. '

Republicans have proven they're utterly dysfunctional, and I think they know -- I think most members of that caucus know they're going to lose support of the House.

But, Jessica, I need to say this one more time, referring to Trump and election integrity, and you said it's -- we're -- it like we're in upside down land. Yes, but this is what Trump wants. And this needs to be said, and this is dangerous.

Everything Trump says now about the 2024 election being stolen will incite violence, will incite a January 6, will incite his supporters to get violent. And Donald Trump wants that. That cannot be said enough. Trump wants there to be violence, just like he did after the 2020 election.

KEILAR: It's not academic. We all saw January 6. We know what can happen. He knows what can happen.

Joe, Sarah, thank you so much to both of you. We do appreciate your time today.

And here in the next hour, a federal judge is going to be considering whether to throw out these charges facing Trump's two co-defendants in this classified documents case. The Trump employees are trying to get their obstruction charges dismissed. They claim they didn't know that they were moving boxes of classified materials from Mar-a-Lago.

DEAN: And one of them, Walt Nauta, claimed the boxes contained random items like news clippings and hair spray. That's according to a newly released FBI transcript.

CNN's Evan Perez is outside that federal courthouse in Florida.

Evan, tell us more about this hearing today and this transcript.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, so, in the next hour, we're going to see lawyers for Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira.

These are employees of the former president. They're still employed by the former president. And they're accused of helping to move some of these boxes that contained -- that the prosecutors claim, say contained these classified documents that are at the base of this case and this trial.

They're asking for these obstruction charges to be thrown out because they say they didn't know what was in these -- in these boxes and they did not obstruct, they did not try to block this investigation,they didn't know that there was an investigation going on.

I will play you just a little bit of Brian Butler, who we anticipate is going to be an important witness for the prosecution. He was identified in the indictment against all of these men as Employee 5.

And he talked to Kaitlan Collins about his interactions with Walt Nauta with -- regarding these boxes. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN BUTLER, FORMER MAR-A-LAGO EMPLOYEE: But during the -- us getting luggage, Walt asked: "Hey, I need a minivan."

"Sure. Go ahead."

And then he left. And I was -- I didn't think anything of it. It was a little odd the way he asked me. I mean, it stood out now, after all this.

But him and Carlos were gone at that time. And I didn't know -- because, typically, he wouldn't go get a vehicle, drive himself and get luggage. So...

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: So, it was unusual for him to make that ask of you that day?

BUTLER: It seemed odd to me once I figured how everything went.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And what we expect, of course, is that Butler will be an important witness for the prosecution.

But, last night, we saw for the first time Walt Nauta's interview with the FBI, which is -- which happened back in May of 2022. And he described -- he minimized what he thought was in those boxes.

Listen. I will read you just a part of this exchange with the FBI, in which Nauta says this. He describes a lot of his personal items they carried. They're all in the same box.

The FBI agent says: "But now you have looked inside these boxes?"

Nauta doesn't respond to that. He says: "His personal items."

And the FBI agent says: "So, when you say personal items, what are personal items?"

And Nauta responds: "Hair spray, shampoo."

Of course, Brianna and Jessica, we now know from this indictment, the FBI says and the Justice Department says that there were highly classified documents. And part of the reason why Nauta was being interviewed was, they wanted to know what damage had been done to national security by them being stored at Mar-a-Lago.

[13:15:00]

KEILAR: Yes, weird to wash your hair with compartmented information, I will say.

DEAN: Sure.

KEILAR: Pretty strange.

Trump, to be clear, Evan, is not there today at court. I wonder if the judge's decision could affect his case.

PEREZ: Absolutely.

Look, I think that's the context that hangs over all of this. If these two co-defendants are able to remove these or get rid of these obstruction charges, then you can bet that Trump's attorneys will come back to this court and say that they should remove the charges against him as well. He is alleged to have conspired with these men to obstruct this investigation.

Of course, there's a lot more evidence that prosecutors say they have that indicates Trump trying to obstruct this investigation, beginning with, of course, the fact that he refused to comply with a subpoena asking for him to -- for him to return these documents -- Jessica, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Evan, thank you for that report live for us from Florida.

And ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL: Vice President Kamala Harris is in Arizona today, days after the state Supreme Court revived a 160- year-old abortion ban. A Republican lawmaker joining us next hour says the Civil War era law will be repealed next week. Does his Democratic colleague believe him? We will be asking her next.

DEAN: Plus, Israel bracing for Iran to retaliate after a deadly strike on Tehran's embassy in Syria. New reporting on where U.S. intel officials believe an attack could happen.

And U.S. drug shortages hitting an all-time high. What's causing this and the plan to fix it, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:05]

KEILAR: Right now, Vice President Kamala Harris is headed to Arizona just days after the state Supreme Court revived a near-total abortion ban from the 1800s.

Today, she is expected to take direct aim at former President Trump and blame him for the wave of restrictions on abortion following the reversal of Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is live from Tucson, where the vice president will be speaking here in just a few hours.

And, Priscilla, abortion, obviously, has become this key issue in the battleground state ahead of the presidential election. What more can you tell us about Harris' visit?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right. Brianna.

And it's one that the Biden campaign thinks can really mobilize voters come November. So the vice president coming here to Tucson, Arizona, where she is expected to hammer home the threat that the campaign says Donald Trump poses on personal freedoms and also health care, tying these unpopular abortion bans directly to Donald Trump.

Now, in prepared remarks that were shared with reporters ahead of time, the vice president is expected to call the overturning of Roe a seismic event and go on to say that this state court ruling is one of the biggest aftershocks yet. She's also expected to go on to say that here's what a second Trump term looks like, more bans, more suffering, less freedom.

Now, of course, the Biden campaign does see abortion as a salient political issue heading into November. And this week, following that ruling, the Biden campaign put out a seven -- a seven-figure ad on the issue, again squarely putting the blame on Donald Trump, on what has unfolded on abortion and what the vice president, as she has crisscrossed the country, has said is the chaos and confusion that has unfolded across the country.

Of course, she has been uniquely positioned on this issue starting in January, when she kicked off a Reproductive Freedoms Tour. Now, in talking to a Democratic strategist, what this Arizona court

ruling really boils down to is another data point, one that Democrats can point to as they build their argument ahead of November on the issue of abortion, a very critical issue to get voters out to the polls in a critical battleground state like Arizona that President Biden only narrowly won in 2020 against former President Donald Trump -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Talk to us, Priscilla, about the bigger strategy here when it comes to this issue of abortion that polls show voters trust Biden significantly more than Trump on.

ALVAREZ: Well, it started months ago.

And, again, the vice president was positioned by her team to tackle this head on over the course of the year with that Reproductive Freedoms Tour that she launched and that has included six stops nationwide, including one last month here in Phoenix, Arizona.

The idea here is for the campaign to make it very clear that the overturning of Roe was directly tied to Donald Trump. That is what the vice president is expected to really hammer home in her remarks today and also make that clear in ad buys across the country and by putting out these abortion-related ads, not only here in Arizona, but also in Texas and in other states.

And also, of course, this is an issue that, if it is on the ballot, like it could be here in Arizona, it could help bring voters to a -- to the polls. In an election where voters are sort of apathetic and may not be as enthusiastic about either candidate, it's these types of measures that can really get them to come out and vote.

And that could be the case here in Arizona. So, at the end of the day, this is just another issue that allows the Biden campaign to seize on and to try to use to make sure that voters are showing up in November.

KEILAR: All right, Priscilla Alvarez live for us from Tucson, thank you for that report -- Jessica.

DEAN: This week, chaos erupted on the Arizona House floor after lawmakers tried to vote on repealing that state's 1864 abortion ban.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:25:02]

DEAN: Republicans blocked that effort, then quickly adjourned for the week, prompting Democrats to chant and protest on the chamber's floor, including Arizona State Representative Analise Ortiz, who joins us now. Great to have you here with us.

First, I just want to know where things stand today with the efforts to repeal this ban. We know one Republican lawmaker says that this should be banned -- or overturned by next week. Do you think that's true?

STATE REP. ANALISE ORTIZ (D-AZ): Look, Republicans had two opportunities to do the right thing and overturn this 1864 abortion ban on Wednesday. They voted two times to block our attempts to do so.

I was deeply disappointed by that. We are adjourned until this upcoming Wednesday, and Democrats are going to continue to fight to repeal this ban. We want a clean repeal. Republicans say they need more time to talk through their strategy, but we have the language. We're ready to go. This shouldn't be about strategy.

It should be about repealing this archaic ban and saving patients' lives.

DEAN: And so what does that look like practically? How do you get them to go with you on this? What kind of outreach, if any, are the Democrats doing?

ORTIZ: Look, Republicans got us into this mess, and they now have seen exactly how outraged the public is.

They have made public statements that they are -- some of them are open to repealing this ban. So, Democrats did what was in our power as the minority party. We put the vote up on the board on Wednesday, and Republicans blocked it two times. So, if they are serious about repealing this horrible ban that will lead to deaths, then we need them to start whipping their votes and put this back up on the board on Wednesday.

It remains to be seen whether they are serious about doing that.

DEAN: But your -- I hear -- what I'm hearing from you is, at this point, you haven't had any outreach with any Republicans who say they're open to overturning this ban?

ORTIZ: Personally, I have not. But our Democratic leadership has been in continued conversations with Republican leadership. We are ready to go.

And what we are hearing from Republican leadership is that they are not ready to go. They have a lot of tension and infighting going on, because there are some Republicans who want this extreme abortion ban, with no exceptions for rape or incest, to stand. So the tension point remains among the Republican colleagues in the Arizona legislature.

DEAN: And we know that Republican Arizona Senate candidate Kari Lake has pushed back against this ban. What does that say to you?

Obviously, just to remind everyone, Arizona is kind of a toss-up, a very key Senate seat, a swing state in this presidential election. What does it say to you that Kari Lake has pushed back against this ban?

ORTIZ: There has been a seismic shift in the political landscape here in Arizona.

We are seeing not just Kari Lake, but lots of other Republicans starting to flip-flop and backpedal. They do not want voters to know that, just a couple of years ago, they were celebrating the fall of Roe. Some of the Republicans in the legislature even voted on this 2022 15-week abortion ban, which was at the heart of the Supreme Court case.

And the legislative intent in that ban actually said that they agreed that the 1864 ban should not be repealed should Roe fall. So, I think that voters are really seeing through the backpedaling that's happening, and they're not going to fall for it in November.

DEAN: And, in the meantime, Arizonans are planning to vote on a ballot measure in November that would restore access to abortion at the point of viability, which is approximately 24 weeks.

In the meantime, we're also hearing reports that the Arizona House speaker perhaps may put forward his own or his party's own ballot measure as well. What have you heard about that as a potential option?

ORTIZ: If the Republicans are planning some kind of game with people's lives, like putting a competing ballot initiative on the ballot, they need to be ready to answer for that.

The Arizona for abortion access ballot initiative has collected more than 500,000 signatures. The signatures are going to be due in July. I feel very confident that it will make it on the ballot and that it will pass overwhelmingly.

I have collected signatures for the petition myself. People across the political spectrum are excited about this initiative because they want politicians and judges to stay out of our private personal medical decision. And I guarantee whatever the Republicans put up will not make that a reality.

DEAN: And just quickly, before I let you go, Arizona has a lot of independent voters. It's something that they're known for there in that state.

Is this an issue? Are you hearing from independent voters? Is this an issue that you think is going to be persuasive to them?

ORTIZ: Oh, absolutely. And the polling shows it, right?

Look, abortion is a very personal, private and emotional.