Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

Interview With Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings; Interview With Norman Lear; America Battles Ebola; Roots: Our Journeys Home

Aired October 14, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Tonight: America battles Ebola. Here's what we know right now. Nina Pham, the Dallas nurse who helped take care for Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan, is in good condition. She put out a statement today thanking the doctors and nurses caring for her. But some nurses in Dallas are making claims about how the hospital handled Ebola. We're going to have the very latest on that for you.

Meanwhile, the city of Dallas is taking care of Nina Pham's dog, Bentley. And as the CDC rethinks its Ebola response, it's finally forming an Ebola response team that can travel anywhere in the country within hours. They say it might have prevented Pham from contracting Ebola.

But is the virus poised to become even more dangerous? Could Ebola become airborne? I'm going to ask the experts.

Plus, the man who changed American television forever. He is a genius behind "All in the Family," "The Jeffersons," and "Maude." So what does Norman Lear think about TV today? We're going ask him if we have gotten too safe.

And the story of my life. Like a lot of African-Americans, I knew very little, if anything, about my ancestors until now. So, "Roots: Our Journeys Home" was a life-changing experience for me. And, tonight, you can see it all, from Louisiana to West Africa.

We have a lot of business to get to tonight. We're going to begin with breaking news.

The president of the National Nurses United speaking out about lapses in Ebola protocols in the Dallas hospital where Thomas Eric Duncan died and nurse Nina Pham is being treated.

Joining me now is CNN's Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, these new developments just in, some explosive new claims on a conference call tonight from the president of the National Nurses United, who says when Thomas Eric Duncan was at the Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital -- quote -- "The guidelines were constantly changing and there were no protocols."

I understand that you have some more information on these claims. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, coming from

the same organization quoting anonymous nurses, Don.

I'm going to read you the hospital response to this in a second. But they say some pretty remarkable things. They say that Mr. Duncan was not in isolation. He was not in isolation for several hours, despite the fact that a nursing supervisors asked that he go into isolation and he may have come into contact with up to seven patients at that time.

They also point out that blood, the laboratory blood that was taken from Mr. Duncan was sent through the hospital tube system. It's a tube system that is -- where all the blood samples are sent. And the concern is that tube system could potentially become contaminated as a result of the fact that this blood with Ebola was circulating through it.

One of the most remarkable ones, Don, we talked about this last night a little bit, the fact that the nurse's garb, this protective garb, did not fully cover all the skin. Apparently, some of the nurses pointed that out, complained about it. They were told, at least according again to this union, to wrap medical tape around their neck four to five times. They said wrap medical tape around their neck to try and prevent any of that bodily fluid from touching their exposed skin.

That is just remarkable. But they also commented on the fact that waste, they didn't know what to do with the waste. It would pile up nearly to the ceiling in some of these patients' rooms because they didn't know quite what to do with it.

I want to read you, Don, the comment from...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Can I ask you something though before you read that? What does all this mean? How can -- do these nurses have proof? Because these -- as I said in the beginning, these are explosive allegations.

If you're saying they're saying put medical tape and that the waste was piling up, what does that mean?

GUPTA: Well, it doesn't sound like there was specific protocols on how to deal with this. It sounds like when concerns were raised by these nurses, they didn't have a specific plan.

One of the basic things just to outline it for you, this idea that bodily fluid on any exposed skin could potentially be a route of infection, so people raising the concern. I'm taking care of the patient, I have exposed skin. What am I do about it? It doesn't sound like there was a good plan.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: What I'm getting at, it seems like things may be much worse than we're being led to believe if this is indeed true. That's what I'm asking, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Yes. I don't think that there was a plan in place.

I wouldn't suggest, and I think it would be very irresponsible to suggest that this was a hospital sort of protocol to tell nurses to wrap tape around their neck, to try and do this. I think probably this was somebody who said, you know what? I don't know what to do. I'm not sure what the right answer is here. But we need to take care of this patient.

So here is a solution. As outrageous a solution as it may be, that is one that at least some of these nurses say was offered up. And I think what it speaks to, Don, is as much as we have been pounding the drum on this for some time and saying this is going to happen, we're going to have a patient with Ebola at some point in this country, that despite all that and despite all the preparations, these are the types of lapses that we're hearing about.

Let me just read you quickly what the hospital said. It wasn't particularly -- there was no particularly big headline here. They say that: "Patient and employee safety continues to be our greatest priority. We take compliance very seriously. We do have numerous measures in place to provide a safe working environment, including mandatory training and a 24/7 hot line and other mechanisms that allow for anonymous reporting. We will continue to review and respond to any concerns raised by our nurses and all employees."

One thing I will just point out, anonymous reporting they put in that statement, these were anonymous nurses talking to this nurses union. There is some fear about all this as well, retribution. They say that they wanted to remain anonymous because they were fearful of what might happen to them if they spoke out openly. That is fueling this as well to some extent, Don.

LEMON: OK. So, Sanjay, stand by, because I will need your help throughout this broadcast.

I want to get someone else in here, because at least 76 health care workers who may have come into contact with Thomas Eric Duncan after he was hospitalized are now being monitored for symptoms of Ebola.

Joining me now to discuss that and more is Mayor of Dallas Michael Rawlings.

Thank you, Mayor, for joining us.

What is the attitude there? First of all, what do you make of these allegations from the nurses if this is indeed true? What do you think about that?

MIKE RAWLINGS, MAYOR OF DALLAS, TEXAS: I personally don't know and I personally don't comment on anonymous comments. When people stand up and bring facts forward, then that's something we need to deal with.

I know that Nina has been upgraded to good. Her spirits are high. And she's very complimentary of the hospital right now. LEMON: With 76 people being monitored, how concerned are you about

this spreading beyond just nurse Nina Pham?

RAWLINGS: I'm concerned.

Look, this is a series of ups and downs. Today was a good day. She got upgraded. She's in good spirits. You know, the progress we're making, we have got the 76. But out of that 76, the odds are that possibly we may have somebody else. And that concerns me. We have got our contingency plans in place. And we are ready to jump into action if that's the case. God willing, it's not. But if it is, we will deal with it.

LEMON: Yes, I think everyone is hoping it is not.

You know, Mayor, the CDC director, Thomas Frieden, today said that he regrets not sending a team of CDC experts to Dallas sooner and that it could have prevented Nina Pham from being infected. Do you believe Dallas was properly prepared for this?

RAWLINGS: Well, we are working very good as a team. The individuals that he sent in the last couple of days have really helped us out a lot. We got ahold of all 76 of those people.

And I think we have got the data that we need to do -- to deal with this issue. And I'm looking forward. There will be plenty of time to look back.

LEMON: Some are suggesting that perhaps all Ebola patients in the U.S. should be moved to one of a few hospitals that are specifically equipped to handle these cases. If more cases show up in Dallas, would you like to see those patients moved?

RAWLINGS: Well, I'm sure the CDC is discussing that.

And I believe we have got to look at our health care system not only in Dallas, but throughout the nation to know what's the right thing to do. If we have two, three, four patients, how do you allocate those individuals? And the great news is, we have got that. We have got a good health care system here in Dallas and we have got other places that these folks can be sent to.

And I know that discussion is taking place. And I await a decision.

LEMON: Dallas Animal Services taken Nina Pham's dog, Bentley, from her home and are caring for her. You say you promised that to the family. What can you tell us about the dog, Bentley, and whether the dog poses any danger of transmitting the virus?

RAWLINGS: Well, first of all, I think the most -- the feeling I get more than anything is this is the cutest dog in the world.

It kind of -- your kind of heart goes out to the thing just because it looks so cute. But from a safety standpoint, the dog is safe. It's at Hensley Field, which is an abandoned area that the city of Dallas owns. Animal services are bringing in vets. And we're looking at this thing very closely to make sure that we feed and water and really care for the dog in a safe manner. Hopefully, the dog is not ill either. But we did this because Nina wanted it. She is such a hero. These nurses are heroes. I mean, I just can't believe these folks suit up every day and are helping people. And it's just an inspiring story for me.

And her positive attitude, you know, I will go buy her another dog if necessary and keep this one, so she can have two, because you want to help someone like this.

LEMON: Well put, Mayor. And we agree. They're on the front lines and they are heroes.

Thank you, Mayor Mike Rawlings of Dallas. Appreciate it.

When we come right back, much more on America's battle against Ebola. Going to ask our experts, could the virus mutate and go airborne?

Plus, the man who proved that you can say that on television, Norman Lear on his greatest hits and what he thinks of TV today.

Also, the assignment that changed my life, my emotional journey from Louisiana to West Africa to discover my roots, you will see it all tonight, along with a special surprise guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Health officials say that Ebola is transmitted when someone comes in contacts with body fluids of a person who has symptoms. But it is possible that Ebola will mutate and eventually spread through the air?

Joining me now is David Sanders. He's a virologist and associate professor at Purdue University, Dr. Devi Nampiaparampil, an assistant professor the New York University School of Medicine, and our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back us with.

So, here's the question. Could it become airborne? That's the question.

David, you have been studying Ebola since 2003. You say Ebola is prime to go airborne. Why do you believe that?

DAVID SANDERS, EBOLA VIROLOGIST: So, we know from our own studies and those of our collaborators that Ebola is capable of entering human airway epithelial tissue from the airway side, so lung tissue can be entered from the airway side.

This is exactly the mode of entry that influenza takes to get into the lungs. So, I'm not saying -- and I reiterate we have no evidence that in the current epidemic there has been airborne transmission. However, when this issue is discussed, people have frequently said there are no receptors on the lung, this can't happen, and that viruses don't change their mode of transmission. None those statements are in fact true. And so that's why I have been

trying to speak out on this. There are a few others that are also trying to make this point as well.

LEMON: Dr. Devi first, your response?

DR. DEVI NAMPIAPARAMPIL, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, in theory, it's possible. This happens with bacteria and with other infectious diseases.

We come up with antibiotics and other treatments to fight bacteria and then we face drug resistance, where they basically figure out what our immune systems, what our drugs are doing and try to figure out ways to fight. But at the same time, you know, I don't think that that's happened so far. I mean, we have isolated cases in the U.S. We have isolated cases in places outside of West Africa.

But if this virus had figured out how to go airborne, we would see that spread much, much faster.

LEMON: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, I want to hear what you have to say about this, because it is very scary if that indeed -- if it's a possibility. But there's no evidence that it has happened.

GUPTA: No evidence that it's happened. And some people have said there's zero percent chance that it will happen. I know Dr. Sanders takes issue with that. So, saying it's not zero percent, it is slightly higher than zero percent.

But I think we're dabbling around the edges here quite a bit. Look, HIV is an example of a virus that was transmitted through bodily fluids for decades. And millions of people have been infected, so plenty of chances for mutations. And it has mutated. It mutated so it is less susceptible to some of the medications out there, things like that, but never changed its mode of transmission.

And if I can just say, Dr. Sanders, you say that there is evidence of viruses that cause human disease changing their mode of transmission as a result of mutations. What viruses are you talking about?

SANDERS: I'm talking about Influenza A. Influenza A in its natural host, the aquatic birds, is a gastrointestinal virus. And when it hops over to mammals, very few mutations necessary for the adaptation, it is now a respiratory virus.

(CROSSTALK)

GUPTA: Within humans, though -- and right now in a situation like this, where it's already transmitting via bodily fluids in humans and then mutating to go airborne, has there been a case like that, where it's within humans, within a particular species already?

SANDERS: Within a particular species, yes, there are changes within a particular species, not for humans.

But the example of HIV is really not a very fair one. We know where the receptors are for HIV. They're only present on cells of the immune system. There are no receptors in the lungs. There is zero possibility for HIV to go into the lung. We even know if we introduce HIV artificially into the lung, it doesn't even go out into the airway. It goes towards the bloodstream, as it should, because that's where its targets are.

HIV is not a good comparison. Its receptors are not there. We know that Ebola's receptors are on the airway tissue. And, therefore, that's one of the requirements necessary for Ebola to be transmitted by respiratory route. There are other requirements. And so those other requirements may have to do with how well it survives desiccation.

Can it be transmitted on particles of certain size? But we know that those things can be affected by mutation as well. I don't know how many mutations. I don't know how likely it is. And I'm not trying to scare anybody. And I certainly am insisting we have no evidence for its transmission that way.

But as the number of cases accumulate, a small probability becomes a larger probability.

GUPTA: And my problem with this a little bit is -- OK, everything you said is likely true, but the idea that it has happened before within humans already and mode of transmission has changed as a result of mutations, again, I'm not sure if that's true.

And I think -- I feel like we're dabbling around the edges here. You say you don't want to scare anybody. That's exactly what it does, is scare people. The chance of this happening is so remote. We can bring up millions of things that have a very, very remote chance of happening. I'm just not sure the value of that, other than to create fear.

LEMON: OK, guys, hang on,because I want Dr. Devi -- Dr. Devi is sitting in the middle and being very patient.

Go ahead, Dr. Devi.

(LAUGHTER)

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Well, I think one thing we should also look at is Nina Pham's dog.

There is some evidence that dogs can actually carry the Ebola virus. There is no evidence that it spreads to humans or that it infects dogs. But, you know, if we're looking at ways to actually fight the virus, one thing to consider is, how is the dog actually able to carry Ebola virus and not get infected?

That might be an area for research, to really look at how it's able to do that and whether there is something about a dog's immune system that would protect it. Dogs are man's best friend, so let's see if they can help us here.

LEMON: Thank you. Sanjay, did you say everything you wanted and David Sanders as well? You guys get it all in?

Again, we don't want to scare people. I just want to make sure that we...

(CROSSTALK)

GUPTA: We're both Big Ten guys. He's a Purdue guy. I'm a Michigan guy.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I'm up against a break. Sorry about that.

SANDERS: The important thing is, what if it does go airborne and everybody has been told there is no possibility of that for the wrong reasons, right? If we're insisting on reasons that are in fact incorrect, that would be a disaster. So the other thing is we might have to actually be prepared for that possibility.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: All right, David. Thank you, David Sanders.

And, as Dr. Gupta said, the chances of that are very, very remote here. And we will keep digging into it.

GUPTA: We have other bigger problems we should be focusing our attention on right now, I think.

LEMON: Thank you, David. Thank you, Dr. Devi. Thank you, Sanjay Gupta. We appreciate it.

Norman Lear changed American television groundbreaking sitcoms like "All in the Family," "The Jeffersons," "Maude," challenging Americans to face up to prejudice. He's out with a new memoir of his amazing career. And Norman Lear joins me next.

Also ahead, the story of my family in America. My mother and I traveled to West Africa to the site where many of our ancestors were taken away as slaves. It's parts of CNN's series "Roots: Our Journeys Home."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

LEMON: Just the theme song to those shows.

Norman Lear is one of the most influential producers in the history of American television. He created groundbreaking '70s sitcoms like "All in the Family," "Maude," and "The Jeffersons," and "Maude," and "Good Times."

So, Lear's comedy were not afraid to tackle serious social issues like race. Here is a clip from "All in the Family" that features not only Archie and Edith Bunker, but their neighbors, George and Louise Jefferson.

And a warning. It contains a word that you don't hear much on TV anymore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "ALL IN THE FAMILY")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Can't you tell when you have been insulted?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Just don't get excited.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I'm not getting excited. I'm getting mad.

SHERMAN HEMSLEY, ACTOR: Listen to them, Louise. That's what happens when you mix black and white. Ten more seconds, he's going to call her nigger.

(LAUGHTER)

CARROLL O'CONNOR, ACTOR: Listen to that. I ain't used that word in three years.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Norman Lear is also known for his politics and fierce defense of civil liberties. And he has got a new memoir, "Even This I Get to Experience," and he joins me now in his first prime-time interview for his book.

I'm so honored. Thank you very much.

NORMAN LEAR, AUTHOR, "EVEN THIS I GET TO EXPERIENCE": I am as honored.

LEMON: Thank you so much.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So I was -- before you came out, I was singing, "Boy, the way Glenn Miller played, songs that made the Hit Parade."

Just the theme songs to those shows, and I have to tell you, you shaped who I am today. The television was my baby-sitter a lot because I had a -- I grew up with a single mother.

LEAR: Yes.

LEMON: And so thank you for that.

LEAR: You're welcome for that. Would you believe that I was shaped by it, too, I grew up with it, too? LEMON: Yes?

LEAR: You know, it's -- you never stop growing. I have grown up in the last -- I'm growing up meeting you.

LEMON: Yes.

You know, people, we don't hear that -- those kinds of conversations, in my estimation, on television anymore. You were way ahead of your time. Why doesn't that happen anymore? Why are we so, shall we say, politically correct, if that is the right phrase, or...

LEAR: I don't know.

The fear existed then, too, and we fought against the fear, because it was -- I thought it largely silly. We couldn't win an argument without, you know, it going up a hierarchy of people on the other side of the country.

LEMON: Yes.

LEAR: And I guess the same thing is happening today.

I know a lot of show runners who tell me "All in the Family" could not succeed. Well, it couldn't get on, to start with.

LEMON: You don't think it could get on today?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Even with the "Modern Family"s and the shows like that?

LEAR: That's what I'm told. I love "Modern Family." That's what I'm told. That's what I'm told by the guys who are trying to do it.

LEMON: Yes.

LEAR: I am trying to get a show on the air for the last three, four years dealing with, well, not quite your generation, but your dad's generation up through my generation.

LEMON: It's harder to sell a show now than it was in the '70s, you think?

LEAR: Well, it's harder to sell a show about aging demographic, although it's the largest growing demographic in the -- among the demographics.

LEMON: Yes. And they spend a lot of money.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: ... with the money.

LEAR: And they have the most expendable income. But it's still 18 to 39. LEMON: Yes.

You stood your ground then. Was it tough? Did you have to say no? Like, we actually talked about the N-word before the show. And I was telling you we have censors, sort of, not censors, but it's standards and practice.

And I said, don't sanitize this. That's the whole point of it, is to hear the word, because you could hear it in the '70s. Did you have to go through those battles? I'm sure.

LEAR: Well, the crazy thing is, I didn't go through any battle for the N-word.

LEMON: Right.

LEAR: But I went through battles for silly things, a lot sillier than that.

You know, on the very first episode of "All in the Family," Archie says 11:00 on a Sunday morning, because he thinks the kids are going up, Mike and Gloria, to make love. And they have to have that line out, because it was an allusion that something that was taking place upstairs.

LEMON: Yes. And before that, I remember that Lucy and Ricky would have to sleep in separate beds and then finally got to the point where they could -- but let's listen -- let's watch one more clip of "All in the Family." Here's another one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "ALL IN THE FAMILY")

O'CONNOR: His pal Roger is as queer as a $4 bill, and he knows it.

(LAUGHTER)

SALLY STRUTHERS, ACTRESS: That is not only cruel, daddy. That's an outright lie.

ROB REINER, ACTOR: You know something, Archie? Just because a guy is sensitive and he's an intellectual and he wears glasses, you make him out a queer.

O'CONNOR: I never said a guy who wears glasses is queer. A guy who wears glasses is a four-eyes. A guy who is a fag is a queer.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: That is amazing! That's how I would -- and I do conduct myself like that in interviews, I'm told. Because I think you should be able to say those things. That's the only way you get anything resolved. So obviously, it was difficult to do that. Did you have a problem

with "queer"? You didn't have problems with the "N" word. You have a problem with "queer"?

LEAR: We didn't have a problem with "queer," no.

LEMON: We're dealing with the same issue now. It's a little bit better, with same-sex marriage. You're a big proponent of civil liberties. What do you make of what happened since you did that show?

LEAR: I think the rest of the culture and every other culture (ph) needs to take a lesson. Look at what -- how much has been achieved in the last few years.

LEMON: Do you feel in part responsible for the way we're going?

LEAR: I'm not responsible for it. I'm happy that I was part of, you know, every group that enlisted me or I could think of to be a part of it. And I helped where I could. But, you know, I think as a culture, we should take a big deep bow.

LEMON: All right. We see those guys like Sherman Hemsley and Carroll O'Connor, and I just kind of bow because they're so great. It's been said that Carroll O'Connor was pretty difficult. Was he?

LEAR: Well, Carroll kind of was carrying a lot of responsibility. I mean, he was a white man playing a bigot, and it was a time when it had not happened before.

LEMON: And he wasn't really a bigot?

LEAR: And he wasn't. He was an intellectual, and he worried about a lot of what was written for him. And he was right some of the time, and he was wrong a lot of the time. And those were the battles. But they were honest battles. And he was a glorious actor.

LEMON: I loved "All in the Family." I loved every single show. But you know what? I really loved "Maude." I don't know, you know. Maybe it's because I'm a gay man, but I just loved "Maude." She was just, you know, a sister who really could...

LEAR: I love Maude. I say in the book, I don't know if you finished it, but Maude represented a lot of me. That progressive, that liberal who wasn't altogether on up on everything she should. She should know a good deal more than be an emotional person she was.

LEMON: But she had a good heart.

LEAR; She did.

LEMON: She didn't mean any harm. She may not have known. She said her piece and didn't mean any harm.

LEAR: No. She meant no harm.

LEMON: So what's your -- what's your favorite part of this book? I love of book, but I also love that you're such a family man. And I see lots of pictures of you in here of you and your family.

LEAR: I have six glorious kids.

LEMON: Yes.

LEAR: And they run from daughters, five daughters from 18 to 68 -- from 19 to 68.

LEMON: How young are now? Do you mind telling me?

LEAR: I'm 92 years young.

LEMON: My gosh. That's still young. You've accomplished so much. Is there anything else that you would like to do? It seems like you've done everything. You even bought a copy of the Declaration of Independence.

LEAR: Declaration of Independence.

LEMON: What's that all about?

LEAR: Well, it was all about traveling it. It was all about standing in different cities across the country and watching people who run around the block coming closer and closer and closer to that document and crying, so many of them, when they got there. The document that guaranteed everything that meant America to them.

LEMON: Yes.

Buy that show. Buy his show. Put it on television. I would love to see it.

LEAR: And the book. Buy the book, too.

LEMON: Absolutely buy the book. But I do have to tell you, that you made me who I -- you helped to shape me and a lot of my generation.

LEAR: There's nothing I could hear that touches me more. Nothing.

LEMON: I mean, really. Just the boldness of the subjects that you tackled. It was very important to -- for civil rights and for gay rights and for women's rights, and so I thank you. And I thank you for coming on tonight. Good luck with the book now.

LEAR: Thank you very much. Very much.

LEMON: Norman Lear, thank you.

All right. Well, up next here on CNN, our series "Roots: Our Journeys Home." Tonight, my mother and I explore our family history, and we travel to West Africa where our forebears were taken to America in bondage as slaves. and my mother Katherine joins me on the set. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I've never been this nervous about anything that I have ever said or shown on television, so here we go.

All this week, in a series called "Roots: Our Journeys Home," CNN anchors are telling the stories of our lives, how we came to be. My personal and emotional journey took me from Louisiana all the way to West Africa. And I could not have done it without the person who is closest to me, and that is my mother. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Growing up in Port Allen. Here it is. I grew up on Court Street and on one side of Court Street the black people lived. On the other side of Court Street, the white people lived.

This is how I looked growing up as a kid. This little brown, curly- haired kid with big teeth and big ears.

(voice-over): I lived through desegregation in the 1960s and experienced racism growing up in the south. But I know it was nothing compared to what my ancestors endured. I just never got to learn their histories.

(on camera): I don't know where this journey is going to take me. What am I doing? Aer you rolling?

I couldn't do this without my mother. And I can't tell you how excited I am that she is going to be with me.

Hi, mother.

KATHERINE CLARK, DON'S MOTHER: Hi.

I had no idea at all where my ancestors were from. I did have an idea that I did have ancestors in Africa. But I never, ever thought about pursuing it.

As she was riding along in her little car.

LEMON: My mom is my best friend now. My grandmother was my best friend then. She was just this beautiful, regal woman who we all loved. And I mean, she was the matriarch of the family.

CLARK: My mother, she had problems with people. She was shunned because of her color. And her father was white.

LEMON: Michelle Ercanbrack from Ancestry.com has been researching my roots.

MICHELLE ERCANBRACK, ANCESTRY.COM: One of the things that we found in Don's tree, his great-grandparents were a white man and a black woman who worked at a place called St. Clair Plantation in Brusly, Louisiana.

LEMON (voice-over): St. Claire Plantation, built in 1855, where my great-grandmother, Catherine Jackson, worked at the sugar cane mill, and where my great-grandfather Harry Rivault was the plantation overseer or manager. (on camera): Was it this hot when I was a kid here?

CLARK: Yes.

LEMON: Hotter?

CLARK: Yes.

ERCANBRACK: We are walking along what is known as Manager's Row. So anyone that worked at the plantation had housing provided to them, and these are those houses.

LEMON (voice-over): I remember the smells of burnt sugar cane in the hot summer air. But I didn't know I had a connection this place.

(on camera): So who lived on this row?

ERCANBRACK: Harry.

Wasn't there a story about Harry and Mary Henrietta?

CLARK: It was the story my mom told me, that her mother died in childbirth. And Harry Rivault wanted to take her and raise her, but her grandparents chose not to do that. So they came and got her and raised her.

ERCANBRACK: It makes you wonder how that could have changed and affected her life? It would have been the difference between having been raised in a white family or in a black family.

Harry Rivault, this is him in 1910. He's also living in West Baton Rouge, and Odell is his wife. And him and Odell never had any children.

CLARK: Really?

ERCANBRACK: They never had children.

LEMON: He died at 56?

ERCANBRACK: Yes. The cause of death is right here.

LEMON: Gunshot wound of the head.

ERCANBRACK: His suicide was in the papers.

LEMON: "Mr. Rivault, who had been in ill health for several months, killed himself Saturday by placing a 12-gauge pump gun to his head and pulling the trigger. The coroner's jury brought in a verdict of suicide."

But why would he kill himself? What was going on in his life?

CLARK: Maybe not having a relationship with his child, and he never had children. And that was the only child, and she was black.

LEMON (voice-over): I wish I had asked my grandmother what she knew about her father or how much he tried to be a part of her life.

ERCANBRACK: Who bought the house?

CLARK: He did. For Mama.

ERCANBRACK: He bought it and gave it to her, right?

CLARK: Mm-hmm.

ERCANBRACK: This is someone that he's -- he cares for and is trying to provide for in his own way. Because you didn't know that he had done that.

CLARK: No. No, I never knew that. My mom said she saved the money to buy it. And she never worked. So we wondered how she saved the money.

ERCANBRACK: So she had her ways, right?

CLARK: She had her ways.

LEMON: Ways.

CLARK: Ways.

LEMON: That's a family thing. Ways.

CLARK: Ways.

LEMON (voice-over): Turns out that my family has lived and labored in this area since before the Civil War. Our roots date back to when Louisiana first became part of America in 1803.

ERCANBRACK: For the next part of your story, we are coming here to the West Baton Rouge Museum. This cabin was taken from the Allendale Plantation and was built by slaves. So we're in a building that was -- that's very contemporary to the time of when your ancestors lived here, as well.

I want to shift back over to Catherine Woods, your third great - grandmother. And we don't know who her father was, but there's a candidate. His name was Clemens Woods.

LEMON (on camera): Black male, 68.

ERCANBRACK: He was born in Louisiana, and his father was born...

CLARK: In Africa.

ERCANBRACK: Africa.

So Clemens represents that first generation that was born in the states. And his father represents one of the last generations to come directly from Africa. The next question is where in Africa do you think he might have been from?

LEMON (voice-over): I'm confronted with a question, who do I think I am? It's something only my ancestral DNA can show.

ERCANBRACK: So these are your results: 76 percent African and 22 percent European. And then you've got 25 percent Nigeria and 22 percent Cameroon/Congo. Fifty percent of your genetic makeup comes from that specific region in Africa.

LEMON (on camera): Wow.

(voice-over): My ancestry is deeply rooted in what is now known as the slave place. My mom and I traveled to Ghana's Cape Coast Castle, the main exit point for slaves coming to the United States.

(on camera): Essel, nice to meet you.

ESSEL BLANKSON, SENIOR EDUCATOR, CAPE COAST CASTLE: Nice meeting you.

LEMON: This is my mother Katherine.

BLANKSON: Hi, mom.

LEMON: Why are we here?

BLANKSON: We're going to take a tour and we're going to take you back in time.

This was the main slave dungeon. This was constructed in 1792. It was designed for 1,000 people.

LEMON: Can you imagine being here?

BLANKSON: They stayed here for three months on average. In this darkness, yes.

LEMON: It felt like a descent into hell. I felt like this must be what it's like to enter hell.

I couldn't believe that people walked down that path and then walked through here and then spent months in here, if you survived.

BLANKSON: This was a dungeon for the troublement (ph) case, those who incite rebellions and instigating violence.

LEMON: But it was dark in here.

BLANKSON: It was dark in here. They were held hear in chains. You see the hole in the wall? Holes in the wall. They were held in chains. And this channel was the drainage for their feces and urine. The floor was covered with feces, blood, decomposed bodies, clothes, food, vomit, sweat. In terms of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) torture.

LEMON: I kept looking for places to escape, and there was no escape. The only escape was either become a slave, go to a new world or you escape through death.

BLANKSON: What you are standing before now is a shrine. And behind this wall there was a tunnel. They were led to the exits. LEMON: Is that where the ships left?

BLANKSON: Yes. To the boats and to the ships. Now the walls are dedicated to the souls of our ancestors.

LEMON: I don't know how many thousands or millions of people ended up in places like this.

BLANKSON: I requested for a candle for you to light in memory of ancestors who passed through this facility.

LEMON: That one little candle was a fire of inspiration.

We're survivors.

CLARK: Yes.

LEMON: Survivor spirit. Survivors.

BLANKSON: Through this door, they left behind the known for the unknown. They left behind security for security. They went through this door.

LEMON: You want to go?

And you walk through not the passage you came in but then through another passage, through the door of no return, and then onto a ship away from your family and then who knows what happened to you after that.

I went to the ship.

BLANKSON: In 1998, two bodies of ex-slaves were exhumed in America and Jamaica. They were brought back through this door to reverse the trend of no return.

LEMON: I was thinking I just can't hold it in anymore. I wake up every day, and my life is like a dream. Every day I feel like I'm dreaming. I have such a wonderful life. I am so blessed and so fortunate.

I want all those people who think that they can't survive and all those people who say, "I can't do this, I can't do that," I want to show people that that isn't true. You can do whatever you want.

BLANKSON: So on behalf of the government of the people of this country, it's my pleasure to welcome you back.

LEMON: Who do I think I am? I know that I'm a survivor. And I came from a group of people who are survivors. Why wouldn't I want to do the best that I could to honor those people?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So you saw my journey. Here's my mom, Katherine. Hi, Mom.

CLARK: Hi.

LEMON: What do you think?

CLARK: It was a great experience. I'll never forget. And it was very hard going into those areas and experience -- experiencing where our ancestors were held in captive and then brought across the ocean in ships.

But the best thing about it is -- I thought about it later -- is we as part of those people in Africa and our ancestors, we flew there. It was awesome. And we flew first class. We did not have to cross in a ship.

And I love the part when they turned around and said, "I want you to look at the sign that's above this door. We've changed it. It says door of return." And we were there to return as part of our ancestors. We made that journey there. And they came back. Us being a part of the African culture and ancestors.

It was an amazing trip that I will never, ever forget. And I want to thank everyone for allowing us to go there.

LEMON: I could not have played this trip without you. And I'm so glad that I got to share this with you. And people ask me what do I do with this? Right? What are you going to do? I don't look back. I'm very proud of where I came from and who my people are. But I'm not a person, you know that, I don't look back at things. I keep moving forward.

CLARK: Yes, you do. And that's your spirit. You will always be that way.

LEMON: That's where I get it from, you.

CLARK: Yes. Going there, it was -- it was troublesome, but it made me feel like that's where I get the strength to be a strong woman.

LEMON: Every day.

CLARK: Every day.

LEMON: I said that you, sometimes I'm so tired; I don't get any sleep. And I just go one foot in front of the other, and I think about where I came from.

CLARK: Right. And the struggle they went through. And what you're doing is minor.

LEMON: Amen, sister. OK, Mom, we're going to talk much more about my -- about my grandparent, great-grandparents. You know my grandmother was the love of my life. Right?

CLARK: Yes.

LEMON: I want to talk about that when we come right back. We'll be back, and I'm going to talk to my mom more about the journey and moving forward. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: My trip with my mom to find our roots started in Port Allen, Louisiana. That's where I grew up. But it took us across the Atlantic to the west coast of Africa, where our family's journey began. I'm back now with my mom, Katherine Clark.

So I'm supposed to reveal some stuff to you, right? So this is -- we never compared ours -- you've seen mine. So that's yours in comparison to mine. So it says mine is 76 percent African. You, mother, are 56 percent African and 39 percent European. So it's quite but almost half. We were talking about it with my producers.

So I was wondering why I was 9 percent Irish and 6 percent Finnish. And that's because of you. And why I like vodka so much. That's because I'm part Finnish and Irish.

And so I mean, what do you think? Did you realize -- obviously, you knew that your mother was mixed and half. But I never thought that you would have that much European.

CLARK: European. No, I didn't either.

LEMON: Less than 1 percent...

CLARK: And they're saying here I'm 3 percent Middle East.

LEMON: Three percent Middle East.

CLARK: And Native American.

LEMON: Yes. Does this -- what does this matter to you in the scheme of things? What does this do? Does this change anything about you?

CLARK: Not really. Doesn't bother me. I already knew I was mixed. I knew my mom was and the percentages for her would probably be greater.

LEMON: Right.

I want to talk more about Harry Rivault. Because your side of the -- your generation of the family, I should say, you and my aunt Rahella (ph) and my aunt Lacy (ph) and Mami (ph), the grandmother, you guys didn't talk much about, really, before and about Mami's (ph) parents. Her mother died in childbirth. And then Harry Rivault killed himself.

CLARK: Right.

LEMON: And it is believed that he did not have a happy life, because it was his only child e could not really have a relationship with. And the love of his life, which we believe was my grandmother, my great-grandmother, he didn't have a relationship with her at all or couldn't in that time.

CLARK: No. During the time, no. That was not allowed, to actually own up to having a black child.

My mother would tell us about it, and but she didn't know very much about her own mom because she died, I mean, bringing her in the world.

But a lot of that was blocked, her having a closer relationship with her dad because of my dad. Because he felt that, if you had to hide it, then you don't need a relationship with it. And on his deathbed or just before he died or killed himself, she -- he sent for her, and my dad would not allow her to go.

LEMON: Yes. My grandmother was the love of my life. And you are the next love of my life. And she died when, you know, back in 1997. Right?

CLARK: Ninety-eight.

LEMON: Ninety-eight. And I used to read to her. She had a fourth- grade education or fifth-grade education. As a kid, I used to read to her, and that's how our relationship began, teaching her how to read.

I love you, mom.

CLARK: I love you, too.

LEMON: Give me a kiss.

Thanks everyone for watching. Make sure you watch my colleagues' "Roots." Their journey is going to air all this week on CNN.

I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here tomorrow night. Thanks for watching. Good night.