Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Former NFL Tight End on Trial for Murder; NFL to Run Domestic ViolencE PSA During Super Bowl; Kevin Costner in "Black or White"
Aired January 29, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT, I'm Don Lemon.
As you are getting ready to watch the Super Bowl this Sunday, think about this. The last Patriot to score a touchdown in the Super Bowl won't be on the field this year. He's behind bars and won't be able to watch the game.
In a season of scandal for the NFL, this is by far the worst. Former Patriot star Aaron Hernandez charged with first-degree murder. His trial starting today. The case against is not as slam dunk as it appeared to be.
Tonight, we're going to take you inside the courtroom.
Plus America in black or white. It's something we talk about a lot on this show. And it's back in the headlines with this melee. Look at that, caught on tape at a meeting in Ferguson, Missouri, that was supposed to be about reconciliation.
Well, now an Oscar winner is taking on race in America. Kevin Costner is here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN COSTNER, ACTOR: Our problems didn't start in August, and they didn't start in Ferguson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We've got a whole lot to get to tonight, but I want to begin in a Massachusetts courtroom more than 2500 miles from Phoenix where the Patriots and the Seahawks will go head-to-head in the Super Bowl.
Aaron Hernandez, a one-time promising tight end for New England, would no doubt like to be on the field with his former teammate. Instead he was in court today, sitting behind a defense table as his murder trial got underway.
And CNN's Susan Candiotti is live for us from Fall River, Massachusetts, with the very latest.
Susan, two vastly different portraits of Aaron Hernandez today. What stood out to you? SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're right about
that, Don. You know, this is a man, Aaron Hernandez, to hear his defense team say, was having the time of his life. He was a star player for the New England Patriots, big time tight end, had just signed a $40 million contract extension, and he likes to party. Sure, he did, his defense attorney said.
But this is a guy who was good friends of Odin Lloyd. He never possibly could have done this to him, after all he said he was his friend in his opening address 40 times. The lawyer said that Aaron Hernandez could not have possibly been a cold-blooded killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL FEE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Why would he kill his friend? Aaron Hernandez had the world at his feet. Aaron Hernandez was planning a future, not a murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: And you've got a polar opposite view from the prosecution in this case. The lawyers, the prosecutors in this case, saying, Aaron Hernandez, accusing him of being a cold-blooded killer who orchestrated the execution of Odin Lloyd along with two other co- defendants who are being tried separately in the case.
And this is how the prosecutor described what happened after Lloyd was murdered and the three men, he said, came back to the house, and they are seen on videotape. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ernest Wallace and Carlos Ortiz come down to the basement. Over the next few minutes you'll see during the course of the trial on video surveillance the defendant is moving around, comes down from the first floor into the basement, moving around on the first floor, and you will see, ladies and gentlemen, that the defendant is standing outside of the entrance of the basement holding a gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: So in part, Don, this could be the tale of the tapes. We'll have to see how the jury thinks about or what they think about all of this -- Don.
LEMON: Also interesting, Susan, that Odin Lloyd, the victim, was dating the sister of Hernandez's fiancee, and they were both in the courtroom.
CANDIOTTI: That's right. It's almost the tale of two sisters here as well. You have Shayanna Jenkins, she is the fiancee of Aaron Hernandez, and she is sitting with his mother and his brother D.J. On the other side is her little sister Shaneah Jenkins, who was dating the victim in this case, Odin Lloyd, and she is sitting right next to the victim's mother, Ursula Ward. I -- it was almost uncomfortable to watch the lack of interaction,
Don.
LEMON: Susan Candiotti, thank you. I want you to stay right there, though.
I want to bring in now the judges. Judge Glenda Hatchett, host of "The Judge Glenda Hatchet Show," and also Judge Larry Seidlin who presided over the Anna Nicole Smith case.
Good evening to you.
Judge Seidlin, prosecution used their opening statement to focus on the evidence they do have against Aaron Hernandez, including showing gruesome pictures of the murder CNN is saying that the victim was shot execution style.
I want you to listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK BOMBERG, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Odin Lloyd was shot six times. He was killed and he was left in a secluded. The defendant and Carlos Ortiz and Ernest Wallace left from that spot. And they left Odin Lloyd there, they left evidence at the scene. They took evidence with them. They created evidence of their cooperative effort and they try to and in some cases were successful in destroying evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Judge Seidlin, what will they have to do to prove that he murdered Odin Lloyd without the main piece of evidence which is the gun?
LARRY SEIDLIN, PRESIDED OVER ANNA NICOLE SMITH TRIAL: Circumstantial evidence in this case. This is a tough case for the state, for the prosecutor. Usually a prosecutor wants a case where there's a smoking gun, where there are witnesses observing the shooting of the victim.
I'm surprised, almost shocked that the prosecutor couldn't cut a deal with the other two defendants that are going to be tried later on. I'm sure they even promised one of the defendants a cruise to the Bahamas. All kidding aside, I am thinking they would offer even a light felony or a misdemeanor. The prosecutor would have loved to have one of these defendants say, yes, Hernandez was there, and he intended to kill the victim. Even if he wasn't the shooter.
LEMON: Judge Hatchett, it does make it tougher, though, since there is no gun.
JUDGE GLENDA HATCHETT, HOST, "THE GLENDA HATCHET SHOW": It does make it really tough. They're going to have to rely heavily, Don, on that videotape. Of course, the defense says it's not the gun, it's a cell phone, but I agree with the judge. This is going to be an uphill battle, because it is really a circumstantial case.
And it's going to be hard, because at the end of the day, they have to prove, the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
LEMON: Yes.
HATCHETT: And all the defense has to do is to keep poking holes and creating doubt.
LEMON: Susan, as everyone watched today, you couldn't help but notice, as you sat in the courtroom, you sat in the courtroom behind the mother of the victim. What was her reaction to the opening statement? I -- she was crying, right?
CANDIOTTI: She was, especially when they showed the photograph of her dead son, you can imagine, and after the description came about how he was shot execution style, shot six times, first in the back and apparently in the front as he lay on his back. She did start to cry and she did leave the room, but she cried very quietly and left the room, yet, it was clear you could watch some of the jurors, they leaned forward and they watched her walk out, and then come back into the courtroom again.
LEMON: So it had - the jurors did have a reaction then, right?
CANDIOTTI: They did. At least they were observant, let's just say.
LEMON: OK.
CANDIOTTI: They didn't show any emotion either, but they were really paying attention.
LEMON: Judge Hatchett, this jury is made up of 12 women, six men. When they -- when they see, you know, Odin Lloyd, for example, his mother, Ursula, who is very emotional. She even walks out at one point as Susan describes that. What do you think -- how does that affect the jury?
HATCHETT: I think it affects the jury and I don't think it's necessarily just along lines of sex. And just being affected to women. I think that people are human beings and that's from my experience. That people are touched and you can't expect them not to have some kind of reaction even if it wasn't visible in the court today.
LEMON: Judge Seidline, jurors saw never-before-seen which the prosecutors say was taken by Hernandez's extensive home security system allegedly minutes after Lloyd was killed. They say that Hernandez is holding the suspected murder weapon, right, which has never been found. The defense of course saying that it was an iPhone, I mean, it looks -- it doesn't look particularly like an iPhone.
Why would that video exist, though, if he is a killer?
SEIDLINE: The video, the police think the prosecutor's theory is that it's a Glock. And the Glock is a very fine gun. It's the gun of choice of many of the police in America. It's a gun I used to wear on my ankle when I was in a courtroom and I thought there was potential danger. It's hard to make out on that video what it is, whether it's a phone
or a weapon, and some of the other evidence is hard against the defendant. The fact that his footprints are at the scene where the killing took place. Also, there's other physical evidence, but be that as it may, the jury normally wants someone to say, I saw it take place. And they don't have that now, the prosecutor. They don't have that direct correlation between the shooter and the victim.
HATCHETT: And also, I would say, too, to you, Don, that if I were the defense counsel in this case, I would argue that if I were planning a murder, I surely wouldn't come home knowing that I had a video system. And so I think you're going to hear a lot of that in the trial of just the practicality of this.
Again, really pushing the theory that he was his friend. We heard that over and over again in the opening statements -- argument to the jury, and if you're going to plan a murder, why would you be so sloppy, although we've seen people be sloppy a lot.
LEMON: Yes. Yes. That's going to have to be the last word on this. And speaking of the jurors, really I couldn't imagine, I wonder if the pressure -- and the judge as well -- with those cameras being there. That adds to the pressure as well.
Thanks to all of you.
Susan is going to stick around, we've got a lot more to come on the Aaron Hernandez murder trial.
When we come right back, I want to get our legal panel to weigh in on this. Why does the defense claim police targeted Aaron Hernandez?
Plus why does public service announcement is getting more attention than the flashest Super Bowl commercial?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to order a pizza for delivery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am, you've reached 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Day one of the murder trial of Aaron Hernandez, both the prosecution and the defense laid out their strategies and opening statements, and witnesses took the stand.
Joined now by Mark Geragos who is a criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst, and Michael McCann is sports and law professor at the University of New Hampshire School of Law and CNN's Susan Candiotti is back with me.
Mark, I've said your names hundreds of times, but tonight, it just did not work out as I wanted it to. MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's OK.
LEMON: Susan, so -- so tell me about Hernandez's demeanor in court today, Susan.
CANDIOTTI: You know, he -- he didn't change his expression much. He was very attentive to what was going on, but interestingly I thought when his own defense attorney was making his opening statement, I was watching him quite a bit, and oddly, he was rocking in the chair back and forth and back and forth and he did that for an extended period of time.
I'd like to add this, Don, one of your guests was wondering, gee, wouldn't it be important if the prosecution was able to, in other words, flip one of the other co-defendants in this case who have pleaded not guilty, but long before the gag order was put in place, I was speaking with the lawyer for one of them, Carlos Ortiz, and he said that he hadn't been approached by the prosecution.
LEMON: Interesting.
CANDIOTTI: They just don't seem to want to flip them.
LEMON: Yes.
Mark Geragos, I want you to listen to defense attorney Michael Fee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FEE: We are here because the police and the prosecutors targeted Aaron from the very beginning. As soon as they found out that Aaron Hernandez, the celebrity football player, the New England Patriot, was a friend of Odin Lloyd's, Aaron never had a chance. It was over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Mark, they're claiming that Hernandez had been targeted, because he was a celebrity and a Patriots player, you've some really high profile celebrities? How does that change things?
GERAGOS: Well, when you have a celebrity or somebody who's famous, they do get a presumption of innocence once they've been charged, but they also come under a great deal of scrutiny during the investigation, and people want to attach their case to a celebrity, because obviously, it raises the profile of the investigation. But once the jury is in there then you do get your presumption of innocence when you're -- innocence when you're famous.
Not so much when you're infamous, and he clearly is famous, and I think the makeup of the jury being predominantly female is going to be extremely helpful to him. I think that most cases if not all cases are decided in the jury selection, and this has all the earmarks of a pro defense jury from what I have seen so far.
And harkening back to what Susan said, the -- you know, there was the Ray Lewis, another famous football player who was on trial for murder, and they ended up flipping him during the trial, but in that case, he was on trial with the other two co-defendants who were ultimately were acquitted.
LEMON: Yes.
GERAGOS: In this case, the great thing about for the defense is he can actually sit there, since they're not on trial with him, and point to the other two, and as his defense lawyer can and say, those are the guys who did it and that he had no motive.
LEMON: Listen, Mark, some people are saying, well, you know, just because it's made up of women, women may not be so sensitive to that. That he just can't bat his eyes and women -- and women are going to say, OK, you're guilty.
GERAGOS: Well, right. And I agree with you, that's never going to happen. It's not going to just be a male-female thing. What you do have, though, is you're going to have females, I think, who are going to take a look at this guy. He is famous. He is somebody who, by all accounts, is very presentable. And he's got the resources here to combat a prosecution which has expended an incredible amount of resources to prosecute him.
LEMON: OK.
GERAGOS: All of those things come into play and are helpful.
LEMON: Michael, Hernandez was cut from the Patriots less than two hours after he was arrested. Patriots owner Bob Kraft and the head coach Bill Belichick are on the prosecution's witness list. So how could they be used in this case?
MICHAEL MCCANN, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW: Well, I think, Don', we'll see them used, if they're used at all to provide some evidence following the murder of Odin Lloyd. I think there are reports that they were conversations between Hernandez and Kraft and Belichick. Those I don't think are going to be that instrumental.
I think, to me, what would be more significant is if Aaron Hernandez makes his use of drug or concussions part of his defense. As a way of saying he didn't have the mental wherewithal to plan a murder. It is possible in that context both Belichick and Kraft could be called to testify, and it would be important to hear what they have to say about his health as a player, did he suffer neurological injury, and how was his drug use?
Today we heard Michael Fee talk about Odin Lloyd and Aaron Hernandez smoking marijuana all the time. It looks like drugs are going to play a factor in the defense.
LEMON: All right. I have to ask you this. This is for my two lawyers. And Michael, you first.
How do you think that this will go? Will he get off? Quickly please.
MCCANN: Well, I think there's pretty strong chance he'll be convicted. And I think to me, the stronger chance that he's convicted of second-degree murder rather than first degree.
LEMON: OK.
MCCANN: I'm not sure they're going to be able to get him on the idea that there's premeditation.
LEMON: Mark Geragos?
GERAGOS: I don't think that this is -- going to be a first-degree murder case, and I think right now the prosecution has got uphill battle.
LEMON: All right. Thanks, everyone. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Susan Candiotti.
Some reports of breaking news for you tonight. An attorney for Suge Knight is confirming to CNN that the rap mogul was involved in a fatal hit-and-run accident in Compton, California, this afternoon. The incident reportedly took place on a movie set. It left one man dead.
We'll continue to update you on that breaking news here on CNN. And since we have you here, Mark, I want to ask you this, your reaction to this since I have you here. Suge Knight being involved in a shooting of one of his clients, was Chris Brown, you represented Chris Brown, what do you make of what's happening with this alleged hit-and-run?
GERAGOS: Well, I will tell you something, he's got enormous problems, because he's been to state prison before, and he had state prison priors. If they -- if they allege at all that this was intentional, it would not surprised me if prosecutors here in L.A. end up charging it as a intentional murder case. And if that's the -- if that's the case, Suge has got enormous, enormous problems and enormous exposure.
LEMON: Yes.
Thank you, Mark.
This one we will think close attention to. Appreciate you giving us your feedback on that.
Coming up, countdown to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady is battling a cold. Will he be able to play on Sunday?
And Marshawn Lynch, the Seahawks star running back ramps up his public battle with the NFL by going off on reporters covering the big game. Wait until you hear what he says.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The Super Bowl is just three days away but the road to the big game has been a rocky one this year and controversy haven't calmed down yet.
CNN's Rachel Nichols has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN AND TURNER SPORTS ANCHOR (voice-over): It's been one of the more bizarre Super Bowl week in NFL history. And today was no different. As the controversy around Seattle Seahawks star running back Marshawn Lynch reached a fever pitch.
For days Lynch has been protesting the NFL's requirement he address the media by showing up for public appearances long enough to avoid a fine but largely refusing to speak except to repeat short phrases.
Here's Tuesday.
MARSHAWN LYNCH, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS RUNNING BACK: I'm here so I won't get fined. I'm here so I won't get fined. Hey, I'm here so I won't get fined. I'm just here so I won't get fined.
NICHOLS: Here's Wednesday.
LYNCH: You know why I'm here. You know why I'm here. They know why I'm here. You know why I'm here. You know why I'm here.
NICHOLS: But finally today, Lynch let loose, and he was not happy.
LYNCH: I don't know what story you're all trying to get out of me. I don't know what image you're all trying to portray of me, but it don't matter what you all think, what you all say about me, but I come to y'all event and you all shove cameras, and microphones down my throat, but when I'm at home in my environment, I don't see y'all, but y'all are mad at me.
NICHOLS: Strong words, although Lynch's battle with the NFL's media requirements might not be relatable to most Americans. NFL Patriots quarterback Tom Brady's issues on the other hand certainly are. He's battling a cold that started with his kids and spread to him and his famous supermodel wife Gisele.
The cold could become a major issue for Brady. If he's too hoarse to yell out play calls during Sunday's game. But he doesn't seem too concerned.
TOM BRADY, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS QUARTERBACK: You know, the winter months and I got to say kind of rented my house so I'm glad I have it early in the week and I'm feeling a lot better. So it was good to run around yesterday. And I expect to be 100 percent on Sunday. So I am ready to go.
NICHOLS: Meanwhile, Seahawks pro bowl corner Richard Sherman is facing his own parenting issue. His girlfriend is nine months pregnant with the couple's first child, a boy. So would Sherman choose the football field or the hospital as his girlfriend goes into labor with their son on Super Bowl Sunday?
RICHARD SHERMAN, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS CORNERBACK: He's not supposed to come on Sunday. Obviously that changed some things but I think he's going to be a disciplined young man and stay in there until after the game. But I thought that the possibility of him coming during the game and then come before a game and we have things in place in case that happens, and you know, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NICHOLS: Don, first of all I got to tell you I'm relieved to hear that Giselle gets the sniffles like the rest of us, and it is nice for us mere mortals to know. Also that Richard Sherman is trying to make deals with his unborn son, he said he's told the kid to do him a solid and wait a week or two until he gets form.
But on a more serious note, Sherman has of course been a very vocal critic of Commissioner Roger Goodell especially this past week. One thing he said is why should Marshawn Lynch have to talk every week if Roger Goodell doesn't have to talk every week.
Well, Sherman certainly has a point but Roger Goodell will talk tomorrow. So one thing to look out for is Goodell's state of the union as they call it. He gives it every Super Bowl. That's going to be very interesting doesn't, and we finally get to hear from him. What he's going to have to say.
LEMON: Yes. And for those of us who are sniffling, those guys I mean, Tom Brady is a mere mortal as well because I've been doing this for a week now.
Rachel, I want you to stay with me. I want to bring in Roxanne Jones, the founding editor of ESPN magazine. Also former linebacker Pete Najarian, a contributor to CNBC's "Fast Money," why are you here?
(LAUGHTER)
ROXANNE JONES, ESPN MAGAZINE EDITOR: So I won't get fined.
LEMON: And why are you here?
PETE NAJARIAN, CNBC FAST MONEY CONTRIBUTOR: Nothing else to do.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You don't believe in the integrity of the game anymore. That's a bold statement, let's just say, from a sports writer. Can Goodell you think continue on as being the commissioner?
Well, I say that of course fan. And no, I don't. We've had concussions, what, concussions, we've had domestic abuse, we've had questionable calls in key situations, and now we have cheating, somebody cheated, it's not the first time we tried cheating. I'm a big football fan.
LEMON: Did he say anything to -- I know, you're a writer. Can you say anything tomorrow that will reassure you instead of change your mind?
JONES: He said something before the Super Bowl. So got to go into this game, the biggest game with a cloud over it with questions, and as a fan, I think deserve a little bit more than that. Otherwise, don't talk to me about the sanctity of the game. LEMON: What do you want to hear from Roger Goodell?
NAJARIAN: I think the most important thing is -- you know, two years ago, he actually addressed everybody and he came out and Roger Goodell said, hey, look, the biggest risk to the league right now is complacency. And now two years later, how about the complacency that they just went through in all of the decisions that they've never ever made any kind of decision on. So, I think because of that, I want to hear how the progress is going so far in this whole awareness, domestic violence, how do they move forward from here, and what are gonna be the disciplinary actions, and can they get together with the NFLPA?
LEMON: This is how serious it is. You actually wrote a column, Roxanne...
JONES: Right.
LEMOMN: Fore cnn.com...
JONES: Correct.
LEMON: And you got death threats because you said you don't believe the Patriots should be playing on Sunday.
JONES: That's right.
LEMON: Right. And you -- why is this and you said this is no time for stalled investigation? Why is that?
JONES: Just exactly what he just said, because -- we're on the precipice. NFL fans have been taken through the mud, I think. The sport is in trouble, for many -- on many different fronts. And I think that we deserved quick decision-making in this case. He didn't have to come to a conclusion -- Goodell, but he should have said something. Instead, we heard from Belichick, with some scientist. We heard from -- you know, Brady, I don't know what happened. And it turned into a big circus, and I expect more than that from the NFL.
LEMOMN: Rachel is it -- is Goodell feeling the pressure? Is there any sign or indication that he may be feeling the pressure, or is he just sort of, you know, just -- you know, blowing it off or -- rubbing it off of the shoulders?
NICHOLS: Well, Don, there are 32 people that Roger Goodell has to answer to, and none of them are talking on this panel right now. The owners of the NFL are pretty happy with Roger Goodell, this is a $9 billion business, and if you want to know how happy they are with him? His last reported salary for a year was $44 million. Now I know that, that is not as much as your salary, but that let you know where they place their value. He has made them a tremendous amount of money, and some on -- on the Super Bowl this weekend is expected to be the highest rated television program of all time.
LEMON: Yeah.
NICHOLS: You can charge $4.5 million for 30 seconds of commercials -- that man is keeping his job.
LEMON: Yeah, I think it was like $25 million or $28 million of the top 30 television shows were all sports -- all NFL-related shows.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Pete, I have to ask you about the Marshawn Lynch, is he just acting here? Is he's just his brand?
NAJARIAN: I think if he is, he is doing an unbelievable job, because the promotion for his brand -- this is all about beast mode, the brand. And when you look at what he has been able to do just this week, he doesn't mind having to pay fines, and he might have to pay some fines. We don't know even know what's he's going through yet, because he is showing up, he's there, he's doing what he is asked to do but, look at how much brand exposure he's getting. What's that worth to him?
LEMON: I am -- I'm actually really surprised that the -- how passionate people are about Marshawn Lynch. Many people would say, he gets paid that's part of his contract, he needs to speak. And others say they don't pay him to speak, I happened to be on the side that they don't really pay him to speak, they pay him to play good football.
JONES: Right.
LEMON: Yeah.
JONES: Exactly.
LEMON: Yeah. -- Rachel, this is very important, it has everything to do with the game and the outcome. We heard from Katy Perry today.
NICHOLS: I know, this is -- this is a big moment for you, Don, I realize. And I do have to say she won the press conference over...
LEMON: Oh my God.
NICHOLS: By starting much like you guys in the studio saying, I'm just here so I don't get fine. She also promised America that nothing about her halftime performance would be deflated, and so it is important to know is well, that -- look, the New England Patriots of the NFL may be letting you down, America, but Katy Perry will not. So Don, you can rest easy tonight.
LEMON: Was that like an NFL bustier that I call (ph) a football --
NAJARIAN: Is what --
JONES: We don't wanna know.
NARJARIAN: A little bit right?
JONES: And what's deflated to me -- LEMON: Thank you, guys. Oh my, gosh, alright, dangerous territory.
Rachel Nichols, host of CNN's Super Bowl special kickoff in Arizona with Dan Marino and their guest Seahawks Head Coach Pete Carroll, and Super Bowl MVP Drew Brees at Saturday afternoon -- 4:30 p.m., make sure you guys eastern...
NICHOLS: Thanks Don.
LEMON: Make sure you guys -- tune in. Thanks everybody.
NAJARIAN: Yup.
JONES: Thank you.
LEMON: Appreciate all of you. When we come right back, advertisers paid $4.5 million for a 30-second Super Bowl commercial, but the NFL is giving away time for this spot right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to order a pizza for delivery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) Ma'am, you have reached 911. This is an emergency line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, one (ph) with half pepperoni and half mushroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) you know you have called 911. This is in an emergency line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how long it will be?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) Ma'am, is everything okay over there? Do you have an emergency or not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: NFL running a public service announcement during the Super Bowl that may get more attention than the commercials. This is part of an anti-domestic violence campaign, but will it make people forget league's handling of high profile domestic cases. Back with me now, Roxanne Jones and joining us is Kim Goldman, sister of Ron Goldman, victims' rights advocate and author of Can't Forgive. And also Juan Carlos Arean, he's the senior director of the National Latin@ Network for a Healthy Families and Communities. Thanks to all of you. Let's play this PSA and then we will talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PHONE RINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 911. Operator 901, where's the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 127 Brenier. (ph)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) OK. What's going there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to order a pizza for delivery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) Ma'am, you reached 911, this is an emergency line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, one (ph) with half pepperoni and half mushroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) -- you know you called 911, this is an emergency line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how long it will be?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) OK, ma'am. Is everything okay over there? Do you have an emergency or not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Beep) and you're unable to talk, because --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there someone in the room with you? (Beep) Just say, yes or no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. (beep)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It should be enough?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like I have an officer who got a mile from your location. Are there any weapons in the house?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you stay on the phone with me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. See you soon, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Kim, it really drowns you in, it's striking, we don't see any people in this PSA, you don't see any bruises, no blood -- it's very different than that Ray Rice video we saw earlier this season. What's your reaction to this?
KIM GOLDMAN, SISTER OF RON GOLDMAN: Yeah. Well -- I saw my heart is racing, it's like -- you know, it's fourth time today I've seen it, or listened to it, and it's very compelling, it's very powerful -- you know, it tells us that we don't have to see the bruises all the time to be touched by it. I think as a society, we are little desensitized to violence, and I think this is a really powerful way to hit us in an emotional place that we are not used to.
LEMON: Juan, this is PSA is show -- it's really does show how creative women have to be in order right, to get away from their -- from their abusers. Does this in any, is this destroy some sort of strategy of survival technique, you think for certain women?
JUAN CARLOS AREAN, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL LATIN@ NETWORK FOR HEALTHY FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES: Well, I think this particular case which was based or inspired in real story...
LEMON: On a real 911 phone calls.
AREAN: Maybe, you know, it will not happen again that somebody calls for a pizza. But the truth is that you were saying, victims of the domestic violence and sexual assault -- by the way, the campaign is about both domestic violence and sexual assault and no more campaign -- are incredibly resourceful. And there's really any opening that is created to listen to them, they will take advantage of them. I think that the key message that we need to be ready listen.
LEMON: I think it's -- like Kim, I think it draws you in more, because at first you like, what is this about? The minute that if you see someone you know, abusing -- you know -- but this draws you in, and it holds you there, 30 seconds. Roxanne, is that enough during Super Bowl?
JONES: No, no, it's not enough. I'm glad that we're having the conversation at the Super Bowl, but in no way does it make me forget the culture of domestic violence in the NFL. I mean, they still have a lot of work to do, and so I wouldn't wanna be too congratulatory...
GOLDMAN: Right.
LEMON: Right.
JONES: To the league, because this is a marketing campaign, and then a way, it's kind of a do-good that the NFL is doing. And so, there's no forgives, they're -- I mean...
LEMON: Yes, it doesn't raise everything that they --
JONES: Yes. This isn't like, oh now they love women, who by the way are more than 45 percent of their audience. And -- but it is a good conversation and it's a pretty powerful message.
LEMON: You've got a lot of work ahead of them.
JONES: A lot of work.
LEMON: OK. So I want to play, this is a different ad that I'm gonna play for you now. It's a group named Ultraviolet that will also play during the Super Bowl. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's take domestic violence out of football,
paid for by Ultraviolet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This group also has ads on sportsillustrated.com. Quickly, I want to get everyone's reaction, what do you think of this?
JONES: I don't like it.
LEMON: You don't?
JONES: I don't like it at all. I mean anything you're talking about...
GOLDMAN: I don't like it either.
JONES: Domestic Violence and there's a hit like a tackle...
LEMON: Yeah.
JONES: I mean, who the heck thought of that ad? I don't like it at all.
LEMON: yeah. Kim?
JONES: It's awful.
GOLDMAN: I think -- I think for me, in both of those ads, there's -- there's a slightly missed opportunity, there's not a real conversation about education and prevention, which I hope is the next step. You know, we're having an opportunity to listen which I think is a great call to action. But we're not talking, we're not educating, we're not empowering, we're not hitting young kids about the healthy relationships and healthy boundaries, and for me, as an advocate, that's where I like to conversation to continue to go.
LEMON: Alright. Thank you very much. We'll talk much more about this. Thank you, Kim. Thank you, Roxanne. And thank you, Juan Carlos.
AREAN: Yup. Thank you so much.
LEMON: Alright. When we come right back, the new movie that tackles something, we talk a lot on this show, Race in America. Academy award- winner Kevin Costner is here, to talk about his film Black or White.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We talk a lot about black or white on this show, but the tensions that exploded into the headlines of Ferguson are, in some ways, just the tip of the iceberg. What we say and don't say about race when we are behind closed doors should be part of the conversation as well. And all of that is a subject of the new film, it's called Black or White, Kevin Costner produced the film and he stars in it as well, and he joins me now. Thank you so much for doing this.
KEVIN COSTNER, ACTOR: Thanks.
LEMON: You're the real deal when it comes to talking about race.
COSTNER: Well, I don't know that I am, I don't even know that I have a answer, but I do know that when I see something that mirrors the times that I'm living in?
LEMON: Yeah.
COSTNER: That I feel some obligation at that moment to make sure it gets made, and -- that's what happened.
LEMON: It could not be more timely with what's going on as we're talking about race, as I -- know, you went to Ferguson...
COSTENR: Yeah.
LEMON: With this movie. But I want to show you something that happened in Ferguson yesterday and then we will talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Now, this is supposed to be a meeting to bring people together
and -- black and white started to fight. What's going on here, Kevin?
COSTNER: Well, we were gonna have to burn white hot. I mean, we just do, just did our problems did not start in August and they didn't start in Ferguson, and it is a veil (ph) that has -- been over this country, and -- I think we are all moving, but there's a lot of people that -- are marginalized, and if you are not black, it's very difficult to empathize with -- what happens.
LEMON: And how did you get there?
COSTNER: Well, it's not that I -- I got there, I mean I -- I grew up in a place called Compton, when I say grew up, that's a loose term, I was there for the first eight years of my life. So my extended family -- my immediate family, I -- we -- I was very conscious of these words and the -- I don't ever remember them being said in anger. I don't ever remember them being -- but it doesn't mean they weren't arrogant (ph) it -- that doesn't mean they weren't callous, they weren't -- you know, they weren't ignorant if you will, people's feelings. And -- so I saw it, I used those words.
LEMON: You -- used to. Did you said the n-word?
COSTNER: Sure.
LEMON: And other words?
COSTNER: Multiple times. Yeah, When I was --when I was --in my teens. And there's one day, you know, playing against other athlete. Don't forget, we're talking about 1955...
LEMON: Yeah.
COSTNER: To 1963, of course.
LEMON: Yeah.
COSTNER: And so, I can say that, I mean, if -- I guess you maybe, you never said it or maybe the greatest majority of people out there have never said it. I never said that in anger, but I look back and I realize that word, I had to put that word in my rear-view mirror.
LEMON: Yeah.
COSTNER: It -- it's an ugly word, and I said so long -- you know, in the final speech of Black and White.
LEMON: Let's talk about that, the movie, it opens tomorrow, that's what a 7-year-old biracial girl -- you played the girls grandfather...
COSTNER: Yes.
LEMON: Fighting with her black grandmother, right?
COSTNER: Yes.
LEMON: Let's take a look at.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COSTNER: You are all welcome to come, visit.
OCTAVIA SPENCER, ACTRESS: I'm thinking of the things they way they are, I do miss all the hands we've been dealt, she has been dealt. We need to talk about a shared custody.
COSTNER: Not gonna happen.
SPENCER: No?
COSTNER: Like I say, you are all welcome to come, visit.
SPENCER: You don't want her down here, do you Elliot? Down here with the black folks?
COSTNER: Don't -- start with that.
SPENCER: Get her a little black math tutor, like an adult. Take care of that whole half of her soul.
COSTNER: What is it with you? Why do you always have to go there?
SPENCER: Was with you, but you don't want to admit that there's a there, there?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I love this clip, because it really shows the divide between black and white. And you have said, anytime someone wants to shut a conversation down, you just invoke race.
COSTNER: Well, it's not the only way you do it but, you know, when you want to shut a conversation down, you also kind of walk away. Whatever happened in Ferguson today, somebody either walked away, it probably -- it breaks down. I think the beauty of a movie is that a lot of the people can watch it and for two hours, they can see things that maybe they've said in their life, maybe things they wish they had said in their life, and they are not gonna get -- they're not gonna be able to walk away. They're gonna sit there in that movie, they're gonna go, who am I? Am I that person, am I that person? I know Octavia and Anthony Mackie -- Personally, both felt like they were able to say things that they wanted to say their whole live, and not only for themselves, but for their -- for their generation.
LEMON: Why did you want to do this, and this is not the first time, we'll talk about that. You put up, what -- $9 million of your own money?
COSTNER: Yeah.
LEMON: And the studios did want to make this film, why you do it?
COSTNER: Well, the studios -- the studios are fine, they -- all liked it, but it did not fit into their -- it didn't fit in to their slate, if you will, so I get that. And you know, my job is not to complain about them, but my job is in my own mind is that if I fall in love with something, how do I stay in love with it? I don't fall out. And so I had to kind of look to myself ultimately at the end of the day, I had to drill down and explain to my wife that I thought that we should make this movie.
LEMON: It's not the first time you done the same.
COSTNER: It's not.
LEMON: You did in the 1990s, you did it...
COSTNER: Yeah.
LEMON: When you broke barriers in the 90s...
COSTNER: Yeah.
LEMON: The Bodyguard with Whitney Houston. You insisted that she played your love interest, the lead...
COSTNER: Yeah.
LEMON: The people didn't want it.
COSTNER: Those issues were brought up. You want to think about those things. I mean, it's a business. Who is the best actress? So maybe in somebody's mind, maybe it's not the best business that Whitney be it. But for me, I don't know if I'm like the mongoose playing with the cobra. I don't know. I don't ever felt the danger. I felt that the prettiest girl, the prettiest girl in the world who could really sing was Whitney Houston.
LEMON: Yeah.
COSTNER: And I don't know who would not really want to kiss her.
LEMON: The reason I ask you that is because of what's happening with the academy awards, you know, in Selma...
COSTNER: Yeah.
LEMON: The Oscars when you talk and the voters, 94 percent white, 77 percent male, 14 percent under the age of 50. And some asking you, diversity has coming up in Hollywood, and you've been dealing with this...
COSTNER: Yeah.
LEMON: -- early on.
COSTNER: When you see those numbers, that's right. And I think that -- I think -- I think if the white community can think about things, I think the idea of whatever voting body being a reflection. Who's ever serving the community, if it's a bigger reflection of the community that they're serving, that is smart. That it's like -- and that's what sometimes we go -- hey, there's -- you have to really get under the skin of it, and it's hard. It's hard. It's -- not the easiest thing, I think, for white people to relate that way. And -- it's not a crime, it's just admitting it. It's not easy and so, when we look at that, it is better that body be more diverse. It is better that the police community be more diverse, and it's like, you go -- OK, that's right. We move along.
LEMON: Right.
COSTNER: We move along, and that's what we have to do. I don't know what this movie does. Does it bump -- does it bump the conversation one inch? If it does, then I have done my job.
LEMON: I think it will. I think it will. It's -- you know, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens, and again, it opens tomorrow. But we're gonna continue on this, as you say we move along here. We're gonna talk more about your career...
COSTNER: OK.
LEMON: And I will gonna ask you your Oscars predictions.
COSTNER: OK.
LEMON: That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I'm back now with academy-award winner Kevin Costner. Which is your favorite movie? Who's gonna win? COSTNER: Well, I'll tell you what is gonna happen. More people gonna
see whatever those five movies are, or whatever those 10 movies are. The academy awards are little different to me. There's gonna be people that will watch, and obviously, the winners' lives are gonna change, and they're gonna have that in front of their name and it's kind of a cool thing so, don't be too cool for school. But the academy awards when they worked at their best are gonna be movies that maybe a lot of people never would have seen in. There's always one more thing, somebody gets to watch a speech or two, somewhere in the world, somewhere in United States, and they go -- I think I can do that. I think that's what I want to do. And that's what I think happen -- can happen when the Oscars are working at their very best. And some filmmaker finds their way there that can change a lot of lives.
LEMON: Black or White opens tomorrow.
COSTNER: It does. You know --
LEMON: Go see it.
COSTNER: It's one of those movies. I -- I feel like it can take us a place right alongside Field of Dreams, Dances with Wolves with Bull Durham, because you know why? It was hard to make, and I don't know what that is with me, but that is a pattern for that rock, trying to go uphill.
LEMON: But you always get it done.
COSTNER: Thanks.
LEMON: Thank you Mr. Costner.
COSTNER: Thank you.
LEMON: Appreciated. That's it for us tonight, thanks for watching. I'm Don Lemon. "AC360" starts right now.
