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Don Lemon Tonight

Fears Missing Teens Joined ISIS; Jihadi John Unmasked; Families Being Held Hostages by ISIS in Syria; ISIS Winning Social Media?; Blackballed in Hollywood: Interview with Actress Mo'Nique; Runaway Llamas Steal Spotlight

Aired February 26, 2015 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT, and I'm Don Lemon. Breaking news.

At least four teenagers missing from their homes in Canada and feared on their way to join ISIS. Shocking news on how they may have been radicalized.

Also Jihadi John unmasked. Why would have a well-educated London man become a terrorist executioner? We're going to go inside the mind of a jihadist.

And I'm going to talk to the California couple who, for at least a dozen family members are being held hostage by ISIS in Syria. Kidnapped because their Christians. Is faith at the root -- root of the war on terror?

Plus Hollywood in black and white. Has this Oscar-winning actress been blackballed? Monique is here to talk about it exclusively.

And llamas on the loose. If you think this is llama drama, wait until you see what happens when this llama makes his CNN debut. Live pictures right now.

We're going to get to all of that tonight, but I want to begin with our breaking news. Fears that at least four teens have run away from their homes in Canada to join ISIS.

CNN's Paula Newton joins me with more.

Paul, the first question, what's the latest?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you know, at least four, and possibly more. Officials are trying to determine exactly what they're dealing with. Their families out of Montreal saying they had gone missing in January. Officials believing that they had first traveled to Turkey but had their sights set on joining ISIS in Syria. The trail has gone cold.

Canadian officials are working with their counterparts in Turkey to try and determine what happened to these young people. They were very young, Don, and their families don't know exactly why or how they are radicalized. They were trying to piece this all together. And especially when you look at some of the brutality since January that we've seen from ISIS. The fact that these young people showed this kind of desire to go there and to try and join this group is shocking to these families.

I will add, here in Canada, in the last few months what they've been trying to do, Don, is revoke the passports of people that they suspect will be going overseas to commit terrorism acts or join terror groups. Clearly, that did not happen in this case, and many people in this experience in Canada telling authorities, look, we want these passports to be revoked so that this doesn't happen.

LEMON: Paula Newton in Canada for us this evening.

Thank you, Paula.

I want to bring in now Mubin Shaikh. He is a Canadian terror expert and a former jihadist.

Mubin, you're a former extremist and you began your radicalization there in Canada and then ended up with the Taliban in Pakistan.

Is Canada a main breeding ground for jihadists especially teenagers?

MUBIN SHAIKH, CANADIAN TERROR EXPERT AND FORMER JIHADIST: No, it's not a breeding ground. What you're seeing is actually Western populations in which a Muslim Diaspora resides. Young people especially, larger urban centers, you're going to get clusters of individuals who've come out of those places whether it's Canada, Australia, U.K., France, Western Europe, and America as well.

LEMON: There are reports that these teens may have been inspired or radicalized by a teacher. Is this common?

SHAIKH: Yes, it's not unnatural or abnormal. I mean, a small closed knit, closed group of individuals sitting with a self-professed scholar or an actual scholar or a charismatic leader. This is not uncommon.

LEMON: Mubin Shaikh, thank you very much.

You know, we have finally learned the identity of Jihadi John, the executed shown in video after video of ISIS hostages being beheaded.

CNN's Jim Sciutto has a story now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now have 72 hours.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is the killer menacingly brandishing a knife and taunting the West in the execution videos of hostages James Foley, Steven Sotloff, Peter Kassig and many more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My knife will continue to strike the next of your people.

SCIUTTO: Now U.K. authorities have identified the terrorist known as Jihadi John as Mohammed Emwazi, a 26-year-old British national born in Kuwait but raised in London. Today the White House said Jihad John is a top terror target.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: In the mind of the president, he ranks highly on the list because that individual is responsible for the murder of innocent Americans. And the president is determined to bring him to justice.

SCIUTTO: Jihadi John got his name from former hostages who dubbed a group of their captors after Beatles for their English accents. John stood for John Lennon. The British tabloids later added Jihadi John.

Emwazi illustrates ISIS' alarmingly broad appeal. From a well-off family, earning a college degree in technology at the University of Westminster. And until his travel to Syria in 2012 enjoying a life of privilege. Today, one of his former teachers said she never saw signs of his future as a terrorist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just absolutely shocked that that appears to be him. It's just 100 miles away from where I thought he ought to have been at the this stage in his life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This knife will become your nightmare.

SCIUTTO: Intelligence agencies have been poring over his images and voice he first appeared in videos last August. Emwazi was known to British intelligence since 2009. Emwazi's friends say his path to radicalization may have begun in 2009 when he traveled to Tanzania to go on a Safari, a graduation present from his parents. But he was detained on arrival, held overnight, then deported to the U.K.

Authorities suspecting his true intention was to travel to Somalia. In 2010 he was detained again by counterterrorism officials in Britain. Just two years later Emwazi is believed to have traveled to Syria where he joined ISIS. His friends claimed mistreatment by British authorities set him on a path to terrorism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our entire national security strategy for the last 13 years has only increased alienation, has only increased people feeling like they don't belong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: The U.S. intelligence has now increased its estimate of the number of Americans who've either gone to Syria and Iraq to fight or have attempted to go to 180. That's up from just around 50 last year, a significant increase. And I'm told that lawmakers on Capitol Hill recently received a briefing on Americans -- suspected American who have joined the group ISIS. That of course a grave concern here. They're very concerned about ISIS' recruiting power here in the U.S. -- Don?

LEMON: All right. Jim Sciutto, thank you very much. Now I want to bring in Michael German, he's a former FBI agent, and

author of "Thinking Like a Terrorist: Insights of a Former FBI Undercover Agent." Also Robert McFadden, former NCIS special agent in charge and Mubin Shaikh is back with me. He is the author of "Undercover Jihadi."

Michael, first to you, yesterday we were worried about three men from Brooklyn. Today, it's Jihadi John. You worked with terror cells. What makes these men tick?

MICHAEL GERMAN, FORMER FBI AGENT: Each story is going to very individual. There is a lot of different things that push and pull somebody into engaging into this type of behavior. You know, one of the things to consider as well is that these are not necessarily the same type of behavior. What would drive somebody to join ISIL and be involved in these kinds of horrendous murders might be different from somebody who wants to go the Syria to fight against the Assad government.

LEMON: So it's not the same psychological profile you believe.

GERMAN: And it's not even the same behavior. Right? I mean, we can understand why somebody would be interested in fighting against the Assad government that it killed 200,000 of its own people and in fact if you fight with certain groups, you're going to get U.S. money and resources. So, you know, what might pull somebody there might be different from what somebody would want to do to actually engaging in terrorist acts.

LEMON: Well, just speaking for the average person, they would say, one must be crazy or out of their minds to want to do this? Is that -- would that be a fair assessment?

GERMAN: Not clinically. If you look at the studies, the empirical studies of terrorists, what they find is there's a very low instance of mental health issues.

LEMON: Mubin?

SHAIKH: Yes, the presence of psychopathology is very rare in terrorism. Sociopathy is a different story where an individual may become numbed because of societal issues. But psychopathology like schizophrenic, for example, or a crazy person as we call them, is quite rare.

LEMON: But they're sociopath murderous -- murderous sociopath?

SHAIKH: Well, the end result is going to be same, right? It's going to be death.

LEMON: Yes. Yes.

SHAIKH: And killing.

LEMON: Robert, in the case of Jihadi John, he says -- it is believed that he was alienated after being detained in the airport in Tanzania. How does that alienation morph into joining ISIS, and beheading people?

ROBERT MCFADDEN, FORMER NCIS SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: I don't know. And I read the report, the detailed report about his travels of England to Tanzania and he's being held up by immigration, and going through the system, security services over a number of years. And you know, from -- empirically speaking from a former practitioner, empathy is one of the most important things as an investigator, or an intelligence when you're working with people.

However, Don, no -- presuming that it's all accurate in his treatment, the alienation, it's still wouldn't explain that big leap to psychopathic killer in a place like Syria, so it's really, really hard to conceive and to explain. And as Michael said the path are so many and the different environmental factors, the other motivators that tends to make a swirling cauldron of toxicity.

LEMON: but there are many people -- many teenagers, most teenagers, most young people feel like they are alienated. I mean, that's --

MCFADDEN: Exactly.

LEMON: It's kind of part of growing up. The question, how does one go from that to that on the scale, you know?

GERMAN: And that's what the government has spent millions trying to study, but what they have found is that there isn't a clear pathway, and that this concept of radicalization isn't really something that can be used to predict who might be the next person.

LEMON: Yes. I can't say really what stopped you, Mubin, because you were actually -- you're actually a jihadist, but what made the difference for you to turn it around?

SHAIKH: Well, I wanted to point that -- point out that ideology does play a role. Not all the time, you know, there are also sociopolitical factors that we should also look at, but ideology is also another factor. When we talk about sense of belonging, sense of identity, some -- a lot of times that's constructive on the basis of ideology. For me it was religious ideology.

You know, I ended up in Pakistan with a completely unrelated religious excursion, and I had a chance encounter with the Taliban. I saw them as the heroes of the past, a romanticized versions of the true Mujahidin, the true warriors from the past. I didn't grow up with political grievances, but after I encountered them and they told me about political grievances suddenly I took on political grievances as one of the excuses that I would give to justify my actions.

So, you know, your other guests are right. It's a very unique -- very unique path for every individual, it could be a whole host of things operating at the same time.

LEMON: OK. So I want to -- I want to dig in a little bit deeper because you said it's religious ideology. It wasn't religious ideology that attracted you to it or was it religious ideology that saved you from becoming even more extreme? SHAIKH: Well, it's interpretation of religious scriptures. My

misinterpretations got me into it.

LEMON: Got you.

SHAIKH: And that ideology helped me -- yes, helped the grievances resonate and make sense to me, because after all, it's a war on Islam. That's the only reason why they are doing this, but, like you said, I mean, it was through study of the religion properly, a holistic, contextual understand of the Quran that led me out of this.

LEMON: Well, experts study terrorists, Michael. Do you think that there is enough analysis being done on the effects of counterterrorism strategies?

GERMAN: I don't. I think that's one of the big problem. There was a Campbell study down in 2006 that looked at over 20,000 counterterrorism studies and could only find seven that could look at whether the counterterrorism strategies that the U.S. government were using and methods were effective at all. And that's one of the big problems that we have, is here we are 14 years after 9/11, and we still don't as a government seem to have a handle on what actually works and what doesn't. And it's something that I think is part of the problem.

LEMON: Meanwhile, Homeland Security is set to run out of money just over 24 hours. How concern should we be?

MCFADDEN: From our perspective, from the company's perspective, the Soufan Group, and again this former government law intelligence quite concerning. I mean, what -- when you have an entity like DHS it essentially -- its purpose and the mission is the maestro to coordinate among all the agencies especially domestically quite concerning.

LEMON: Do you agree?

GERMAN: Definitely agree.

LEMON: Mubin, I want to -- can I ask you this quickly? We've been talking about Jihadi John, which his name is Mohammed Emwazi. Do you see yourself in him? Because people were trying to understand why someone who seems to have come from a family of -- person of means went all of the sudden end up joining ISIS?

SHAIKH: Yes. I think we have this false caricature of the terrorist, you know, he doesn't have a job. He does have a job. He is not intellectual. He is intellectual. It's very unique. They are normal people. I do see myself in that. You know, I wasn't discriminated against. I wasn't bullied. I lived a pretty good life.

I got into it because for whatever reason, I didn't feel like this was for me anymore. For me, it was I was guilt-tripped into thinking that I was not Muslim enough. In case of individuals like him who appear to be well integrated, who appear to have good prospects in their internal self, they don't feel like they're a part of the society. It does not work for them, and so they move on.

LEMON: Mubin Shaikh, Michael German, Robert McFadden, thanks to all of you, gentlemen. Appreciate it.

Attorney General Eric Holder sits down with CNN's Pamela Brown to talk about Jihadi John about ISIS and keeping America safe from terror. That's tomorrow night -- tomorrow morning, excuse me. Tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. Eastern on "NEW DAY." Make sure you tune in for that.

And we got much more on this story to come.

When we come right back a California couple who fear at least a dozen of their relatives are hostages of ISIS in Syria.

Also blackballed. How Oscar-winner Monique got on the wrong side of Hollywood. She's here exclusively to talk about that.

And you know them, you love them, llamas on the loose. We've got the unbelievable story behind this video and a llama makes his CNN debut.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So listen to this next story, because human rights activists say that ISIS now holds more than 260 Christian hostages -- men, women, children and the elderly, rounded up in their villages. In north Eastern Syria. And now the California couple feared that 12 of their family members are among the hostages.

Joining me is exclusively Sharlett and Romel David. And they join us from their home in Odessa, California.

Charlotte, 12 members, including your brother, are missing from the village in Syria. So there are Syrian Christians and you believe that they have been captured by ISIS, and why?

SHARLETT DAVID, RELATIVES TAKEN HOSTAGE BY ISIS: Yes, they are. So we know that they're there.

LEMON: Romel?

ROMEL DAVIS, NEWLYWED: Yes.

LEMON: Why do you believe they have been captured?

R. DAVID: Because had they confirmation to that effect, that 600 ISIS, soldiers came out of pre-dawn invasion into the House of Kabali, and they pillaged about 15 Assyrian villages that are along the Fevre River which is attributary of the Euphrates River. These villages are all comprised of Assyrian Christian ethnicity and the person that contacted us was an old man. Contacted actually we an old man, contacted actually a member of my wife's family.

He's an old man that was too sick to be moved from the house, too old to make a journey, and he told them flat-out that he will not leave but if they're going kill them do so, but he's not going to leave. And with a cell phone he was able to make contact with my wife's family and let them know what transpired.

Additionally my wife's sister, her his son and his wife also were among the people that were able to flee, and with a cell phone they explained in detail to my wife's sister what transpired.

LEMON: So they have confiscated all their cell phones. You said this man was left behind because he was older -- too old to go, and obviously they did not take his cell phone.

R. DAVID: That's correct.

LEMON: So what happened when your loved ones tried to call them, when you tried to call your loved one?

R. DAVID: We have not tried to call them because we have heard from others who have attempted to call them that their cell phones have been answered by their captors, and they have been told that they need not bother calling anymore, because there is absolutely nothing that they can be done on their behalf.

LEMON: Yes. Sharlett, your brother had been living in Modesto.

S. DAVID: Yes.

LEMON: But he actually returned to Syria two years ago, and he went back to help other family members? Why did he go back?

S. DAVID: He went back because he had had a son over there, and he has a daughter-in-law and two grandchildren. And so he want to be there for them, you know, what's going on over there, so he wants to be there to support him, and be with them.

LEMON: It must have been tough considering what's going on. I'm sure you expected, you know, hoped for the best, but expected the worst, but you never expected anything like this.

S. DAVID: Yes.

LEMON: Yes. You were -- Romel, you were -- your family members in Syria were concerned about the growing threat of ISIS, and one reason that he went back, but there is concern, and it is building over time.

R. DAVID: Yes, well, he originally came here, he immigrated here with his two daughters. And he found employment here, and he was very happy, and making the adjustment to the American way of life. It began with the fighting against the Assad government of the rebel forces, and then it escalated into the ISIS situation. At the time when it first started with the fighting between the rebel forces against the Assad government, my wife's brother decided that he'd be best to go and be with his son and grandchildren and put himself in harm's way along with him.

While waiting patiently for his son's visa to be approved to immigrate all together to America. It's an arduous process doing an American visa and it's been in the works for years.

LEMON: Yes.

R. DAVID: But it takes a long time.

LEMON: But you didn't wait to wait here, he wanted a wait well, Will thank you for coming on. We're thinking about you here with him. We're thinking about you and police come back and again, we hope for the best. Thank you.

R. DAVID: Thank you.

S. DAVID: Thank you.

LEMON: And tonight -- and there it is. Live pictures. You can them lla-camp you want.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: With ISIS deliberately targeting Christians, is religion at the heart of the war on terror?

Joining me now is Obery Hendricks, visiting scholar at the Columbia University and the author of "The Politics of Jesus." Also Zuhdi Jasser is a former -- founder, excuse me, of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy and the author of "Battle for the Soul of Islam: An American Muslim Patriot's Fight to save his base.

Thank you both for joining us.

Thank you, Don.

LEMON: 262 Christians about being held by ISIS, many of them men, women and children. What's the reason that Christians have now started being targeted?

HENDRICKS: You know it's -- it's hard to tell but, you know, this seemed to be provocative actions by these terrorists. I mean, they're clearly cannot commit genocide against all Christians so they're trying to -- assert their power so they can go on a takeover. And also I think there's a lot of animosity tied up in there/ I mean, it's hard to say because it's just so psychopathic.

LEMON: Yes. We've been talking a lot of about whether it's religion or not and the president not saying -- it's Islamic, saying that it's terrorism general. It there's something in the Quran that talks about non-believers so you think that part of this.

HENDRICKS: Well, there are approximately, 108 maybe in the Quran. Talk about violence. We are committing balance but these 62.000 verses in the Quran. So it's not really particularly a major part of Islam.

But there's a difference between Islamist and Islam and Muslims is our of the Islamist, and Muslims. Islamists are -- well, they're political, and most of the instantiations they want to take over the world with Shariah law. And Shariah law is not always very violent, but it can be. LEMON: Dr. Jasser, when we talk, when we think about ISIS, torture,

rape, murder all come to mind. So where exactly does religion, Islam, fall into their master plan.

ZUHDI JASSER: Well, ISIS, Don, a natural evolution of a supremacist ideology that we see in various forms across any Islamic state. And Islam right now is the same time in history that Christianity was when we ultimately fought against theocracy and created America and all these free countries that rejected the mixture of religion and state.

So ultimately, ISIS is on steroids with Saudi Arabia, it is what Iran, it is where they behead those who are critical of Islam, were there Christians can't build churches, they are prosecuted for practicing their faith publicly in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. So ultimately, ISIS is simply doing publicly and doing videos of what's done in a lot of this Islamic states and we can't deny that the culmination of this supremacies, Islamist political ideology and then ultimately, we need to empower reformers.

You can't empower the reform against the theocracy unless you call it Islamism and allow the anti-Islamist Muslims who believe in liberty to have a set at the table. Otherwise, we become apologist and we allow the Islamist to fuel the ISIS's of the world and then say, "Oh, there are allies against these violent guys that come of thin air."

LEMON: Dr. Hendricks, you agreeing?

OBERY HENDRICKS, AUTHOR, THE POLITICS OF JESUS: Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely, I absolutely agree. These Islamist are -- I mean, the term didn't even -- we didn't have the term until the '70s or the '80s, and this is a new and contemporary movement and it has to be a real pushback against them or they are going to really get fully out of hand. But the point is -- is well taken that, what they're doing in public is what is being done behind closed doors, and Saudi Arabia -- you know, they're beheading people, they have -- they whip them sticks and all that, but I don't want demonize Islamic faith.

LEMON: Right. It's Islamist, you're talking about.

HENDRICKS: yeah, because it's Islamist.

JASSER: That we should --

LEMON: Go ahead, quickly.

JASSER: Yeah, we should be able to have this conversations, and say that well, the faith of Islam that I loved is might be able to combine with the liberty and freedom, but ultimately, for going to pushback against the ideas, the toxins that fuel this, we have to be able to be critical of political Islam no matter how moderate and violent it may seem, it is the drug that becomes the radical ideology that fuel, this is not (inaudible).

LEMON: Dr. Jasser, I want to -- I want to show this. This is a new video release and it shows that ISIS militants are throwing ancient artifacts at Mosul Museum. They say on the video that they are doing this because God has ordered them to do so. What's your reaction to that?

JASSER: Well these guys think that they're God. They are trying to bring up the end of times and have gathered Islam or the entire world beyond the subjugation of Islam, so they're trying to destroy. And once they make the Middle East (inaudible). Remember, the Jews have left most Muslims countries, Christians have been pushed out even under (inaudible) these dictators. Christians were beginning to exile, leave this country and now, just in the last years it's on steroids because there have been a vacuum after the air or awakening. And unfortunately, that, that can being filled by worst theocrats than liberty and chance for opportunity for freedom and that's what we need to have as a strategy.

LEMON: That has going to to be the last word, I'm sorry, I'm out of time. We have you guys back. Thank you both. CNN's original series, I want to remind you, "FINDING JESUS" premiers Sunday night, 9:00 p.m. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And grasp of things that changed the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is really the moment of truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the story of Jesus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The rock upon which the church is built.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An icon of scientific obsession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This extraordinary define an archeological piece.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we really have here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did Judas betray Jesus?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody chose to write this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The science does matter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the real shroud of Jesus?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are the clues he left behind? Faith. Fact. Forgery -- Finding Jesus, premiers Sunday night at 9:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And I will be watching that. Up next, she is an Oscar-winning actress for the role in the searing drama, "Precious". So why has Mo'Nique been told, she's been blackballed in Hollywood? We going to ask her in an exclusive interview, coming up. Also ahead, Americans suddenly love Llamas. Get ready to love Pierre, he's here with us tonight on the Llama cam.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Everyone, I want you to sit down to watch this next interview, because after winning an Oscar, any actor should expect to get offers for the best parts in the best movies, but that's not the case with Mo'Nique, who won the best supporting actress for her role in 2010 for Precious. She said the movies' director Lee Daniels told her that she is blackballed, because she is difficult and didn't play the Hollywood game. We were going to ask her about that in the moment, but first, a clip from her searing performance in Precious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MO'NIQUE, OSCAR-WINNING ACTRESS: Who was going to love me? Hmm? Since you got your degree and you know every (beep) everything. Who was going to love me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joining me now exclusively is Mo'Nique. How are you?

MO'NIQUE: I'm wonderful, Don. How are you doing?

LEMON: I'm doing well. That was you in -- in Precious, and of course you know, it's a Lee Daniels movie. You wore the gardenias in your -- hair for your Oscars speech in honor...

NO'NIQUE: Yes.

LEMON: It was dedicated to Hattie McDaniel. You thank her. She's the first black person ever to win an Oscar. You thanked her for -- for enduring legacy and all that she had to do with -- with you, for getting you there. Meanwhile though, they said that Sunday's Oscars has been called the whitest since 1998, what's going on?

(LAUGHTER)

MO'NIQUE: You have to ask them, Don. That's -- that's not -- I don't have the answer to that. And when I heard that joke, I said it must be something when they start making jokes about it to say, this is the whitest, I mean, brightest Oscar award. So it's something that we all have to take notice to, but it's a question that I cannot answer.

LEMON: It's been five years now. So, what's it then like? Did you get any roles or anybody call? Would your phone ringing off of the hook?

MO'NIQUE: You know, the phone was ringing, and the scripts were coming, and when people say, Mo'Nique, where have you been? It's not that I haven't been on TV, been in the movies, because I've been blackballed as Mr. Daniels had said, the offers just didn't make sense, Don. So again, the phone didn't stop ringing and the scripts didn't stop coming, but the offers that were associated with them, were offers that make me say, "Guys, I can't accept that." Because if I accept that and I won the award, what am I suppose to be an offer that didn't win the award or wasn't nominated. And what it did say to the little girl who's not here yet, that if we continue to accept these low offers, however do we make a different and make a change?

LEMON: OK. I want -- I want to play this. This was Lee Daniels on his very broadcast last night, let's listen.

MO'NIQUE: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE DANIELS, DIRECTOR AND PRODUCER: We were on the campaign, and she was making unreasonable demands, and -- you know, and she wasn't thinking, this is when reverse racism I think happens. You know, I said, you have to thank the producers of the film, you have to thank the studio and the -- I think she didn't understand that, and I think that -- listen, people are not going to respond well if you don't -- you don't so. I love her, and I have spoken to her, and I -- she's brilliant, she's -- and I like working with brilliant people. But sometimes, artists get in their own way, I think that -- there were demands that were made from her on the Precious campaign that everyone knows about, that hurt her and I told her that.

LEMON: Can she change that?

DANIELS: I mean, if she plays ball. You got to play ball...

LEMON: That's it.

DANIELS: This is not --

LEMON: That was the question I want to ask to you.

DANIELS: You have two places and this is not just show. It's show business, and you got to play ball.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What's your reaction Mo'Nique? You didn't play the game. You were -- you had difficult demands.

MO'NIQUE: I want to address it for the order that a women, and when Mr. Daniels' said I have this demand. It shocked me because I was saying to the screen, Don, please ask him what the demands were? And actually, there were no demands, there was a request from the movie studio, and they call and requested that I fly to France for the Cannes Film Festival. I simply said, I respectfully decline, because if you can remember at the time there was a talk show called The Mo'Nique show, I was doing a comedy tour, I was actually in the award season of the awards and I'm also wife and a mommy. So when they called, I had a couple of days down time, I wanted to spend that with my husband and my kids. So when we said we respectfully declined, the movie studio called back and again, and they said, "OK, we will upgrade her hotel room." And my husband simply said again, "We respectfully decline and she's going to take this time with her family." But when the third call came, and they said, "What is it going to take to get Mo'Nique to France, to the Cannes Film Festival?" And my husband said, "Is there a number associated with it?" And they said, "Oh, we will never pay for anyone to do any promotions for a movie." And we said, we understood. Because what people didn't know was, I was paid $50,000 to do the movie Precious, and it really wasn't about the money and I'm not complaining, because I signed up to do it with my friend.

LEMON: Yeah. But you were --

MO'NIQUE: So when the movie --

LEMON: You were saying that, because -- you didn't have the money to do this on your own. Is that what are you saying? That you needed to feed your family and pay your bills?

MO'NIQUE: I think that is what America says.

LEMON: Yeah.

MO'NIQUE: I think that we all say, I can't do it for free.

LEMON: Right.

MO'NIQUE: So when the movie studio says, we can't set precedence and pay you to do this, we didn't have an issue with them...

LEMON: OK.

MO'NIQUE: But that's when the reports came that, now Mo'Nique is being demanding, and she's being difficult. They had a request, we simply had a request, and we -- they said they couldn't do it, and we said we understood. That was it, so --

LEMON: Mo'Nique, you know how this works...

MO'NIQUE: Yes (inaudible)

LEMON: Because you had a talk show. I want to talk to you...

MO'NIQUE: Yes.

LEMON: Before we get off the air, I think this is important. You said you were blackballed, and you were working on other things. Coming out on April 24th you have Blackbird, that's a project with you and your husband. You start alongside Isaiah Washington in that. It's an independent film route. Why have you chosen to take an -- the independent film route.

MO'NIQUE; Well, because like I said earlier, the offers that were coming...

LEMON: You put the video up, as long as we're talking -- sorry, go ahead.

MO'NIQUE: The offers that were coming in, they just didn't make sense. And when Isaiah contacted out Attorney Ricky Anderson, and he said I have to get this to Mo'Nique and her husband. And when we got it, we knew that it was necessary that we get involved, and when we can get involved and have ownership of something. Which means having an ownership, my family benefits as long as my likeness is on that movie, so we have ownership of it, and to tell this amazing story, and the reason why it's so personal for me, Don, because remember when you had to come on the Mo'Nique show, and you had to make the announcement to come out.

LEMON: Yes.

MO'NIQUE: We want babies to have to stop making announcements, to come out. And we want you to be just who you are. So that's what this movie said, and not only it is a movie, it's a movement. So situations that's happening right now, when you have people that saying, we just want to be treated fairly...

LEMON: We have to --

MO'NOQUE: We just want to be treated equal.

LEMON: And we have to go Mo'Nique. Thank you.

MO'NIQUE: OK my baby.

LEMON: Thank you for being so candid.

MO'NIQUE: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Yeah. And we'll see you soon, OK?

MO'NIQUE: Thank you, baby.

LEMON: All right. Up next, everybody is loving llamas. Meet Pierre, right here at CNN. The llama love begun when two llamas went on the lam in Arizona and became instant stars on social media, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. So call it a love affair with llamas, BuzzFeed has posted 10 llama articles today. Everything from which a runaway llamas, which runaway llama are you to? Exclusive, white llama speaks out his amazing escape with over 100 views -- can you believe that? It all started when two of the beautiful animals got loose today in Sun City, Arizona. Helicopters captured their mischief, cable news including CNN, all captivated as CNN's Jeanne Moos shows us now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Llamapalooza 2015 continues.

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Televised live, MSNBC switched from coverage of the strategy of terror to llamas on the run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not kidding. This is a pair of llamas that are on the loose. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not sure what the strategy is here in trying

to get these two llamas...

MOOS: Just talking about it induced anchor giggles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll check in on black llama and update the status of this...

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White llama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I couldn't believe this as I was sweeping to the channels today. I'm joined by John Rowin who helped capture the black llama. John, thank you. Llamas on the loose, of course to L's, low speed chase - that's what you get when you mix a car chase with a couple of llamas and you are one of the guys who helped to catch the runaway llamas. So, let me get straight, you heard the helicopters over your house, right?

JOHN ROWIN, SUN CITY RESIDENT WHO HELPED THE LLAMAS: Yes, sir.

LEMON: And then you looked online, you saw what's going on and then you and your brother decided to go help?

ROWIN: Yes, sir. We -- like I said, we looked online for the news report, and found out, and so I went online and kind a live feed of the llamas being chased. And noticed that it was about -- probably, three or four blocks from the house, and so we jumped in the truck, grabbed the rope and headed over there. We got to -- to the web and (Inaudible) and so the llamas kind of away, so especially (ph) let's get out of the truck and started hurting the animals, trying to keep -- trying to keep away from the busy intersection of Grand Avenue.

LEMON: They weren't easy to catch.

ROWIN: No, they weren't. They wore (ph) me out. Tom (ph) tuckered me out for about 25 minutes so trying to catch these things. But at one point, we had almost got them pinned them up a corner lot, we have a fence around it, so we tried to pinned them out and almost were but they escaped that one.

LEMON: Yeah.

ROWIN: My brother handed off this rope to -- this one guy that was able to lasso...

LEMON: And you have it with you right?

ROWIN: With the black one. Yeah I do, it's right here, it is what I grabbed out the garage on the way out. It's not like everybody a cowboy here and carries a lasso. It was quite the event, let me tell you.

LEMON: Yeah. It was certainly was and we all watched it. John Rowin, thank you very much.

ROWIN: Thanks.

LEMON: All right.

ROWIN: Not a problem...

LEMON: All right.

ROWIN: It was fun, thank you.

LEMON: Did you think Arizona is the only place for llama drama? I want you meet my friend Pierre, he is a celebrity llama and he joins me now along with llama handler, Susan (inaudible). I don't want to make any false moves here.

SUSAN, LLAMA HANDLER: Oh, that's OK.

LEMON: This --

SUSAN: This side.

LEMON: This llama is famous, Pierre is famous.

SUSAN: He is.

LEMON: Why?

SUSAN: He's been on Saturday Night Live and he -- actually walked the Greenwich Village parade. He has done quite a few things.

LEMON: Are they're known to escape like today and --?

SUSAN: Oh, yeah, they like to run. They like to run, Pierre likes to run if he can, and you always have to have a catch pin. And that will be an open gate lead-in. I set them up, I have a gate open, and he has to go through, and that's his catch.

LEMON: What did they do wrong today, how did the llama -- llama, how did the llama -- how did the llama escape? Did they do something wrong, you think?

SUSAN: Oh, they might just left the gate open or a fence went down, I don't know how theirs escaped.

LEMON: Yeah. How fast can they go?

SUSAN: They're fast.

LEMON: Up to 35 miles per hour?

SUSAN: Maybe.

LEMON: Maybe fast --

SUSAN: They're fast. LEMON: At first, they're -- they told me it was an alpaca, right? But

it's not. What's the difference?

SUSAN: Alpaca is smaller...

LEMON: They're smaller.

SUSAN: Their fiber is finer.

LEMON: Are they mean animals?

SUSAN: No, they're not mean.

LEMON: We were all --

SUSAN: His very docile.

LEMON: Oh, Pierre. Pierre is pretty cute, right?

SUSAN: And they're actually natural guard animals for sheep.

LEMON: Yeah. All right. Thank you. Are we done? Are we out of time? We --

SUSAN: No.

LEMON: All right. We'll be right back. Bye, Pierre.

SUSAN: Bye, bye.

LEMON: Thanks for coming in.

SUSAN: He's happy to come.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Tonight CNN Heroes recognizes a 12-year-old who saw a problem, thought up a solution, and didn't wait to grow up to act. Lily Born noticed that her grandfather was having trouble drinking from a cup. He's hand shaking because he has Parkinson's disease, so she invented something to make his life and the lives of many others, just a little better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LILY BORN, CNN HEROES: My grandfather has Parkinson's disease that caused him to shake. He spilled all the time, so I decided to make the kangaroo cup. I came up with the idea when I was around 8-years-old or 9-years-old. I wanted to put legs on the cup, because I figured that it wouldn't be as likely to spill. The original cup was made out of porcelain. We decided to make a plastic version, so it can be used by anybody, like little kids, people with mobility issues. I have a design team and they really do help me so much. Color wise...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.

BORN: Blue?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lilly has sold about 11,000 cups total. Many of her classmates and teachers don't even know what she's doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Said be like in (inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really do keep the kangaroo cup talk to a minimum.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember reading about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now the word is getting around school, and like, wait, Lilly? She did what? She invented these cups? Oh my, gosh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is so cool.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is so cool.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi Lilly, how are you doing?

BORN: Good. The cup has changed my grandfather's life because, that's the only cup he uses now. Like, once the kangaroo cup came, the other cups that he used, they were just out of the picture. One day I want to give money from the kangaroo cup to Parkinson's research, and hopefully they'll find the cure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Nominations for the 2015 CNN Heroes are open now, go to cnnheroes.com. I'm actually on with the llama right now, sure about that. I'm going to change -- can I change Pierre's name? I like his name, I want to change it to Lorenzo...

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Lorenzo Llamas.

SUSAN: That's good.

LEMON: That was so corny was in it? The other guys in the studio -- thanks for coming in, don run away, we don't have a lasso in here. That's it for us tonight, I'm Don Lemon, with Pierre -- Oh, sorry, Pierre. Thanks for watching, I'll see you back here tomorrow night.

"AC360" starts right now.