Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

President's Niece Threatened; Zimmerman Blames President Obama; Fraternities Behaving Badly; Hazing Can Happen Anywhere; Ted Cruz Running for President; Previewing "Atheists: Inside the World of Non- Believers"; CNN Hero: Chelsea Elliot. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired March 23, 2015 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:04]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news tonight. A threat against President Obama's niece. We have the very latest on that story.

This is CNN TONIGHT, I'm Don Lemon.

Plus the return of George Zimmerman. Why he says the president is to blame for what happened to him.

And the only thing more shocking in a story of a brutal gang rape at the University of Virginia is this -- police say there have no evidence that it actually ever happened. Investigators today announcing they can't confirm that a woman known only as Jackie was assaulted at a fraternity house.

But frats all across this country are under fire for bad behavior. From this racist chant by Sigma Alpha Epsilon in Oklahoma.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can hang them from a tree, but they'll sign with me. There will be a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) at SAE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: To one tragic case after another of hazing gone horribly wrong. A lot of people are saying it's time to abolish fraternities. But is that conventional wisdom wrong?

I want to get into all of that tonight but I want to begin with our breaking news. President Obama's niece threatened shortly before the Princeton-Maryland NCAA tournament game tonight. Leslie Robinson is a freshman forward at Princeton.

Joining me now to discuss all of this is CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan and law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

Good evening, thank you, guys, for joining us.

Christine, what are your sources telling you about this threat? I understand you spoke with the coach.

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Banghart is the Princeton coach, and after the game -- Maryland did beat Princeton in this game, and went on without a hitch, with no good, there's no nothing, as you'd expect most people would have never known like everyone. Would have no idea about the threat. I asked Courtney Banghart and she said that Leslie was safe and fine. No one loves Leslie, she said, more than I do. She's in our locker room and everything is fine.

And then she even said what a shame it is, if we're talking about this as opposed to talking about a great women's basketball game. So that is the end results after the game. The coach of Princeton saying that Leslie Robinson, President Obama's niece, is fine, safe and all is well.

LEMON: All this came about from a voicemail that was left at the Athletic Department.

Tom Fuentes, the president attended one of his niece's games. The university is now -- he attended on Saturday. So perhaps that maybe how this came about but the university is saying that this threat is unsubstantiated.

Does it sound like a serious threat to you at all from what you know?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, the problem, Don, is how do you sort out what's a serious threat? You know, the president gets thousands of threats, every president gets them, and President Obama has probably had more of his share.

And, you know, when the Secret Service gets those kind of threats, they just can't dismiss any of them really, unless they know it's been known mental case that they've dealt with in the past. In this situation, the shame of this is that if somebody talks to the president, but does she qualify for the protection that his own daughters who qualify for Secret Service protection?

When would this threat be over? When would you be able to say it's safe for her to walk around without security, even on campus, to go to class, to go to anywhere. So this is really I think a tragic situation for Leslie Robinson.

LEMON: We'll stay on top of it. Thank you very much, Christine Brennan and Tom Fuentes.

More breaking news to tell you about. This also involves President Barack Obama. George Zimmerman says the president is to blame for racial tensions in the wake of the killing of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman spoke out in a video provided by the law firm Ayo and Ike in Orlando, Florida. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: President Obama held his Rose Garden speech stating, if I had a son, he would look like Trayvon. To me, that was clearly a dereliction of duty, pitting Americans against each other solely based on race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let's talk about this breaking news now with Crystal Wright, editor of BlackConservativechick.com, Van Jones, CNN political commentator, and a former Obama administration official, and Areva Martin, attorney and legal analyst.

First to you, Van, George Zimmerman squarely blaming President Obama. At one time he refers to the president as Barack Hussein Obama. Your reaction?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I was very disappointed. I mean, obviously, he has his view. And it's fine. What shocked me was him taking no responsibility even now for saying, you know, I went over to this guy, I went over -- I appointed myself to be a police officer when I wasn't. And somebody ends up dead. I feel bad about that.

He couldn't even bring himself to say that. Instead, he wants to blame Obama. Does he blame Obama for George Zimmerman then going on and acting like a thug, himself, in numerous instances later on? I mean at what point does he take any responsibility for his own actions?

I was proud of this president when the president stood up and said, not only did he say that my son looked like Trayvon, afterwards he said, I look like Trayvon.

LEMON: Well, Zimmerman said this -- he went on to say that it was clear cut self-defense. Here he is. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:05:00] ZIMMERMAN: They took what should have been a clear-cut defense matter and still to this day the anniversary of the incident, he held a ceremony at the White House inviting the Martin-Fulton family and stating that they should take the day to reflect upon the fact that all children's lives matter.

Well, unfortunately, for the president, I am also my parents' child and my life matters as well, and for him to make incendiary comments as he did and direct the Department of Justice to pursue a baseless prosecution, he, by far, overstretched, overreached, even broke the law in certain aspects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Broke the law. Areva, did President Obama break the law? Your reaction?

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: I don't know any law that President Obama broke in making a statement that he made. And look. You are right. I am a lawyer and the First Amendment gives George Zimmerman the right to make any statements he wants to make and each hate speech is protected by the First Amendment. But what I find curious about his statement is he is attacking Obama for making incendiary statements but yet he is saying that this is an act of god or somehow God wanted Trayvon Martin to be dead.

So not only is he offending African-Americans, he is offending mothers and fathers and parents and anyone who's concerned about a 17-year-old kid walking in a neighborhood, not committing a crime but somehow ending up dead. So as he's attacking Obama, he needs to look at himself and look at the racial division that he is causing by his very statement.

LEMON: Crystal, is there any truth to what Zimmerman is saying? Did the president pit Americans against each other?

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, EDITOR, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: President Obama absolutely pitted Americans against each other. He rushed to judgment before the Sanford Police Department filed any charges against him. President Obama came out and said, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin. So that was telling the American people that I'm going to take the side of Trayvon Martin.

And we know that the Justice Department -- it took the Justice Department, what, three years to conduct an investigation to determine whether or not George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights after trial occurred and a verdict said, you know, he was not guilty and Justice Department found that George Zimmerman didn't violate anyone -- Trayvon Martin's civil rights.

And I don't -- I don't really know what -- what is George Zimmerman's supposed to take responsible for? He's right. He didn't say that Trayvon Martin deserved to die. I don't see anywhere -- you know, Areva said that I don't think that he said that God wanted Trayvon Martin dead. What he did say was that he is a child of parents also. I think the whole --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Go ahead, Areva.

WRIGHT: You know, that's ridiculous.

MARTIN: Let's be clear. He said it -- he said it was God's will and that anyone that questioned that was somehow questioning God's will. Those were his statements.

WRIGHT: That's not what he said.

MARTIN: That is what he said.

WRIGHT: He said it was God's will that -- that's not what he said. He said it was God's will that he's alive. That's not saying that --

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: He didn't say that it's God's will --

LEMON: Let's listen to what he said. There's more of what he said. MARTIN: Listen to the tape.

WRIGHT: I don't think that's exactly right.

LEMON: Here's more of what he said. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZIMMERMAN: Me as a Christian, I believe that God does everything for a purpose and he had his plans and for me to second guess them would be hypocritical on the spots, had I have had a fraction of the thought that I could have done something differently and acted differently, so that both of us would have survived, then I would have heavier weight on my shoulders, that sense in the back of my mind, but in all fairness, you cannot as a human feel guilty for living for surviving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK.

JONES: Now, Don --

LEMON: Me as a Christian, I believe God does have everything for a purpose. Go ahead.

JONES: Don, let me just say before we even get back to the Christian part. That really bothered me when he said that, that he could not even now think of one thing he could have done differently. He could have just done what the police dispatcher told him to do, which was to wait for the police to come. He was told and that's why I think people are so upset.

That's why the president said when he said, that's why it became a (INAUDIBLE), is because you have an unarmed young person who was killed by someone after the police dispatcher said you do not need to go over there and initiate a confrontation. And the fact he can't even go back and admit that I think is very disturbing.

LEMON: All right. Crystal, he does say, I believe God does everything for a purpose. He says he doesn't want to second guess them, that would be hypocritical, he says, but in all fairness, you cannot as a human being feel guilty for living, surviving.

WRIGHT: Well, look. I don't think George Zimmerman should feel guilty for surviving. I will agree with Van that I would have liked for him to have some remorse about, look, I would not want to be in a situation to take another person's life, whether voluntarily or involuntary.

[22:10:14] But at the end of the day, there was a trial that occurred and Trayvon Martin had just as many up to do with his tragic demise as the situation. And I think that, look, we've hashed this over and over again. I think it's awful that a young man is gone from us, but he participated in his tragic demise, Don. And I think that the president was not helpful, neither was the Attorney General Eric Holder in jumping out and rushing to judgment just like we saw in the Michael Brown case.

LEMON: Areva, I'll give you --

MARTIN: I just --

WRIGHT: And that's just how I feel.

MARTIN: I just want to make the point --

LEMON: Areva, I'll give you the last word.

MARTIN: I just want to make a point of what the Department of Justice found in the Trayvon Martin case. They found that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute him under the hate crime statue which has a very, very high standard of proof. And that's very different from making a determination that that shooting was in any way legitimate, Don.

LEMON: All right. Stand by all of you. We appreciate you joining us on that.

When we come right back, fraternities behaving badly, should they be banned? Also two young men dead after separate hazing incidents. Two families grieving and asking what can we do to make sure this never happens again. They told their emotional stories coming up.

And are Democrats failing voters of color by taking them for granted. Why some are saying it is time for black and brown people to register and vote Republican.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:15:11] LEMON: Police in Virginia say there is no evidence to support the story of a young woman identified only as Jackie who say she was gang raped at a fraternity at the University of Virginia. But with her story after story of bad behavior -- story after story of bad behavior in America's frat houses, some are calling for a ban.

Sara Ganim has our report tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Charlottesville Police now say there is no evidence of a brutal rape at any University of Virginia fraternity despite the stunning story of a woman named Jackie that appeared in "Rolling Stone" magazine in the fall. Still the case remains opened and the accusations that UVA put fraternities everywhere on the defensive. A CNN review of public records finds more than two dozen disturbing instances since last year.

ALEXANDRA ROBBINS, AUTHOR, "PLEDGED: THE SECRET LIFE OF SORORITIES": I think we have seen especially in the past couple of weeks that there are enough incidents now that we can point to the fraternity and sorority structures and say that there is something wrong going on here. GANIM: There are allegations of racism and inappropriate behavior,

including three different chapters of SAE, the most notorious students of the University of Oklahoma, expelled for singing a song about lynching, And at Clemson, white students, dressing as gang members for a party. The frat was placed on probation.

And just this weekend an investigation launched at Phi Kappa Phi at North Carolina State where a notebook was found left behind in a Raleigh restaurant filled with things like, quote, "that tree is so perfect for lynching," and jokes about rape.

There are also abundant examples of potential criminal behavior. Hazing at Washington and Lee University of Phi Kappa Psi where a new member was allegedly hit with a taser. And police say Penn State fraternity Kappa Delta Rho had a private Facebook page where members were posting pictures of naked women who are allegedly passed out. Both fraternities have been suspended.

ROBBINS: I think there's a sense of group thing that gets people to engage in more and more extreme behavior and think that it's acceptable.

GANIM: One study shows the likelihood of a hate crime on campus increases 8 percent with each additional fraternity on campus. That's according to the research by a professor at the University of California Merced. But it's not known how many hate crimes were allegedly committed by frat members. And then there are the deaths. Three in the last year where hazing, drug or alcohol abuse is suspected, including at West Virginia University where Beta Theta Pi was removed from campus after a pledge died after drinking a bottle of liquor.

All of this since 2014. But one fraternity CEO says these incidents only reflect a few bad apples.

WYNN SMILEY, CEO, TAU OMEGA NATIONAL FRATERNITY: To characterize that or any other kind of bad behavior as common or more common than not, I just simply disagree. With the number of students that are fraternity and sorority members on campus, we're talking over 800,000. It's just -- it's simply not true.

GANIM: The incidents are bad enough that some smaller schools have eliminated fraternities altogether and Penn State officials say they will reevaluate the entire fraternity system.

Sarah Ganim, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Sarah, thank you very much.

So should frats be banned? Here to debate that, attorney Areva Martin is back with us. Attorney Douglas Fieberg who represented hazing victims, Peter Smithhisler, president and CEO of North American Intra- fraternity Conference, and Corey Farris, the dean of students at West Virginia University with fraternities that crossed a line have been suspended there.

Areva, to you first. When you first heard about today's news, UVA, that they found no evidence that a rape had occurred at all at the fraternity house, what did you think? Why not just close the case?

MARTIN: Well, my first impression was I just hope that this doesn't set rape victims back and somehow quell, you know, the conversation that we're having around the country about the attack on women on college campuses. So that was my first impression. But I am adamantly opposed to shutting down all fraternities.

Fraternities play a very important role in the lives of students. And we don't throw out the institutions just because we have these bad actors that we've been watching over the news for the last couple of months, and even a year. Particularly in African-American communities, fraternities play a huge role, young men coming from single family homes look for those fraternities to be a safety net of sorts.

And then when they graduate, they help them transition oftentimes into corporate America. So we have to think about all the positive things that fraternities do from civic engagement to supporting charities when we think about the role of fraternities in colleges.

LEMON: I want to put up the statement from Phi Kappa Psi. And I want you -- respond to this, Pete.

[22:20:01] "The discredited article has done significant damage to the ability of the charter's members to succeed in their educational pursuit and besmirch the character of undergraduate students at the University of Virginia who did not deserve the spotlight of the media. The fraternity requested 'Rolling Stone' fully and unconditionally retract that story and immediately remove the story from its Web site."

Do you think that fraternities get a bad rap in general and this UVA case may have been that, may have given this particular fraternity and other fraternities a bad rap? But because terrible cases happen all the time, video evidence, photo evidence of it?

PETER SMITHHISLER, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NORTH AMERICAN INTRA-FRATERNITY CONFERENCE: It really re-enforces the importance of not having a knee-jerk reaction. What it requires is for all of us to be active engaged and when fraternities are made aware of situations where misbehavior is found or breaking the law, they act swiftly, decisively and take care of that situation. Our students are held accountable for the values for which we espouse as fraternities and sororities.

And that's the important link to the higher education process. This is where students are supposed to grow, learn, change, become better humans and the fraternity experience really re-enforces that.

LEMON: Dean, you -- Dean Farris, you really -- you have experience in this. In light of those alleged nude photos that was posted on Facebook by some members of the fraternity at Penn State, the president at Penn State said today that a task force is going to review the university's Greek systems. Those are some of the pictures there. They're a bit blurred.

How did you handle this at your university? What did you do?

COREY FARRIS, DEAN OF STUDENTS, WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY: Well, when the incident occurred on our campus, we actually took a pause. And we put our fraternities and sororities on a moratorium, which basically stopped everything except their philanthropic or charitable events and their general chapter meetings. And we took a step and we paused and we did an investigation to look to see what was going on. We brought in some outside consultants to make sure we weren't missing anything locally.

We consulted with the national fraternity, the national offices and we did a number of different things before taking action. And we didn't release that moratorium until the start of spring semester. And after individual fraternities and sororities stepped up and did a number of things before we allowed them to continue the meetings.

LEMON: Do you think that banning these fraternities, does it do anything or do you think that they'll just go underground? They'll become a -- you know, an off-campus fraternity where they really don't have any oversight by the school dean?

FARRIS: Well, I don't think banning fraternities and sororities or any club or organization is going to eliminate the problem. I mean, if there is a problem, there is a problem and as was said a few minutes ago, our mission at colleges and universities is to educate students. And so when they misstep, when they break the law, when they make some ugly -- they lose their common sense, then it's up to us as educators to teach them leadership and we'll do that.

LEMON: Doug, your team -- your legal team focuses specifically on hazing. Hazing, it seems to be inherent in the Greek system. I don't know if you read it that way but, if so, how can hazing be stopped?

DOUGLAS FIEBERG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let's start off with that we do focus on more than hazing. We are deeply involved in the battle against fraternities and universities in the context of sexual violence across the country and I just flat out disagree with the NIC spokesperson and the university spokesperson. You don't do enough. I mean, Penn State to this day isn't telling the public the truth about the scope of the problem with fraternities on their campus.

And the NIC they have known of these problems for decades. And they have made decisions not to fundamentally change to make the organizations safe. So I hear the words. And the words come out every year when people gravitate around these problems and hear if anecdotal issues related to the risks. But these organizations still don't tell the public the truth about how serious the risks are under college campuses.

LEMON: Peter Smithhisler, do you want to --

FIEBERG: Look, the fraternities were --

LEMON: Finish up -- (CROSSTALK)

FIEBERG: Yes, let me finish this up. The fraternities were ranked at the 6th worst risk in this country, just ahead of hazardous and waste disposal companies. You don't get to that risk factor in this country without having scores of injuries and deaths across this country. And --

(CROSSTALK)

SMITHHISLER: To paint the fraternity community with the same negative broad brush. The implication that the fraternity experience is not a positive one is just simply untrue. It's the fraternity community that has stepped forward to address these issues in very proactive ways. The amount of money, time, effort, energy that's been invested in the education of our students for proactive action is what the fraternity experience is all about. We have stepped forward and we tell the truth. The fraternity experience can be a very positive one for students on today's college campus.

[22:25:05] LEMON: All right. Thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

FIEBERG: Then why don't you make -- then why don't you make a commitment right now, which is to instruct your insurance carriers and the individuals that have knowledge of your risks to release those risks right now? Because you fight us in court every single time when we're trying to educate the public about what you know, how many people are getting hurt or killed on college campuses by fraternities when you haven't changed your policies for the last three decades?

SMITHHISLER: Doug, it's the NIC who has stepped forward with really positive reactions to all of these important issues that are facing --

FIEBERG: Their reaction.

SMITHHISLER: Reputation in total.

MARTIN: Don --

(CROSSTALK)

SMITHHISLER: It is a proactive reaction of the NIC to take the opportunity to develop three commissions with experts including researchers, faculty members, vice president for student affairs, fraternity professionals, to dig deep and to look at the corps solutions that are going to have long-term success.

(CROSSTALK)

SMITHHISLER: We know what the problems are, we address them every day.

MARTIN: Don.

LEMON: That's going to have to be the last world, unfortunately we're going to speak to --

FIEBERG: If that makes you feel --

LEMON: We've got to speak to two families who are going to react to this conversation.

FIEBERG: If that makes you feel good to say that, that's fine.

LEMON: Thank you, guys. We appreciate it. We'll be right back with those families.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:12] LEMON: Hazing can happen anywhere, inside a locker room or inside a fraternity house and it can be deadly.

My next guests know the pain of losing a child after a fraternity hazing. Lianne Kowiak son Harrison died in 2008, there she is holding a picture of her 19-year-old son and Julie at the time that he died. And Julie and Gary DeVercelly son, Gary, Jr. was 18-years-old, he died after a hazing ritual back in 2007. I can't tell you. Thank you so much for coming on tonight. This is a very important subject and I am glad that you are here and you have the strength and courage to talk about it.

Lianne, I want to go to you first and talk about your son Harrison, brutally killed in a fraternity hazing and it was Lenoir-Rhyne University in North Carolina. What happened?

LIANNE KOWIAK, SON DEAD AFTER FRATERNITY HAZING INCIDENT: Don, first of all, thank you very much for having me on this evening on this very important topic and the recent headlines about fraternities have just been atrocious these past two weeks. So back in 2008, November, we lost our dear son and brother, Harrison Stephen Kowiak. He was attending college on an academic and a golf scholarship. And it's every parent's worst nightmare to send your child off to college and you don't expect them to come home dead. And we received that phone call in the middle of the night. It was hell week, Don, he was asked to wear a light-colored T-shirt with another pledge.

There were only two pledges, very small university and they were caught probably about 20 miles off campus and frankly, the brothers in the fraternity were wearing dark colored clothing. Harrison was asked to run the gauntlets (ph) he was after one from one end to the field to the other end of the field and then get that -- and touch that sacred rock. Sadly, they tackled him out of left and right field and he hit his head very hard. You know, this is just every parent's worst nightmare. You just don't expect it. And he had mentioned to me, mom, dad, I'm thinking about joining the fraternity, I want to have that full college experience.

LEMON: And instead...

KOWIAK: He knew he had to keep the grades up. He had to keep the golf scholarship up. But, it was just something that he wanted to try, and we just didn't know how dangerous it would be, Don. LEMON: Yeah, I'm sure, and most parents don't mess while you were

you're here, because we want to educate people. I want to get to Julie and Gary. So tell us, Gary, Jr., what happened? He died in a hazing incident in Rider University in New Jersey, so-called drinking ritual.

JULIE DEVERCELLY, SON DIED AFTER FRATERNITY HAZING INCIDENT: Hi, good evening and thank you for keep keeping the topic alive. Our son, Gary Jr. was on an academic scholarship. He was focused and driven on achieving his goal, and his dream was to be a general manager of a professional sports team, preferably baseball. He started college at the age of 17 and turned 18. He was in the MBA program there, was not looking to join a fraternity, and they put a bid on him. He did research. There were three different ones that wanted him. He did research on them, the one that stood for leadership. He decided to accept. He believed it would be good for his resume, good for networking, for what he wanted to do, totally professionally driven goals.

LEMON: But you did not know...

KOWIAK: We talked about...

LEMON: About the hazing incident and that explain to us the hazing incident that cost him his life.

KOWIAK: There were numerous smaller incidents of hazing -- didn't realize it at the time with a T-shirt with a humiliating term on the back, going on a scavenger hunt, the wee hours in the night, being required to study for three-plus hours without sitting down and then it was big little night. The most deadliest night in a fraternity is when the universe, the little's are presented by their big brother. They went through some ceremonies and then one of the last things that they did, they presented each of -- the big brothers presented each of their little brothers with their families -- family drink, specific type of alcohol. They were required to finish the entire bottle within an hour and then they could leave the basement. All of the pledges drank. Several finished their bottles. Two went to the hospital. And one died of alcohol poisoning. They knew he was in trouble and they ignored him.

LEMON: And the one who died of alcohol...

KOWIAK: there are people...

LEMON: Poisoning was of course your son, sadly.

KOWIAK: Yes.

[22:34:59] LEMON: And I want to ask you, Gary, when you listen to, there was a very vigorous debate before we got to you. What did you make of that, one person saying, listen, you know, they should not be banned? Another person saying, yes, they should be banned. What do you make of, of this debate?

GARY DEVERCELLY, SON DIED AFTER FRATERNITY HAZING INCIDENT: Well, the problem has been going on a long, long time and we're only seeing the tip of iceberg. The universities and the fraternities have been sweeping this under the rug and hiding it for a very long time and it's, it's, it's really time that people become aware of the dangers that our children are facing when they go to these universities and start dealing with these fraternities.

LEMON: Lianne, what do you -- I want to get your reaction as well, because your daughter is now looking at colleges, I'm not sure if (inaudible) will be a part of her plan there, but when you hear about this debate which as Gary said it has been going on forever and people are sweeping it under the rug. Do you agree?

KOWIAK: Yes, you know, Don, for over 100 years, there are fraternities and sororities out there that have existed, and they talked about the brotherhood and their sisterhood. And I do know there is a lot of service oriented fraternities and sororities and a lot of philanthropic work that is done. However, there is shroud secrecy when some of these traditions continue. And quite honestly, it is the responsibility of all, whether it's the university, the national fraternity, the local chapter. Everybody needs to be involved and to take responsibility and be an individual that takes the high road. Don't be a bystander. If you see something going on, you've got to make a difference. Don't be the one that causes your chapter to close...

LEMON: Before you --

KOWIAK: And quite honestly, my daughter is 16-years-old and we are actually on a road trip this week. It's spring break and we are looking at colleges. And we will have that conversation and I know that when I spoken to college students and campuses, I've met so many positive, well intended individuals. And I know that there are some wonderful people out there. And so, if my daughter feels that she wants to join a sorority, whether with the service in nature or whatever type of sorority, we will make sure that it is safe and that there is no hazing tolerated and...

LEMON: And Lianne --

KOWIAK: I will make sure there are checks and balances in place.

LEMON: And that has to be the last word. We say -- and I appreciate all of you for being so passion about this. Thank you, Lianne. Thank you, Julie. Thank you, Gary. We appreciate you. I'm thinking about --

KOWIAK: Thank you.

G. DEVERCELLY: Thank you. You are welcome.

J. DEVERCELLY: Thank you.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

[22:37:45] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, running for president. Today, he became the first Republican to officially announce a campaign for the 2016 race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I believe in the power of millions of courageous Conservatives rising up to reignite the promise of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Cruz made his announcement before he largely wipe crowd in Liberty University at Christian school in Virginia. Back with me now Crystal Wright, editor of blackconservativechick.com and Van Jones, CNN political commentator and a former Obama administration official. Luis (ph) and I point out diversity and that is because of this. Ted Cruz is a Cuban-American so he may have an appeal to Hispanic voters. Over the weekend my colleague Michael Smerconish talked to ESPN host, Stephen A. Smith who says it's time for black people to vote Republican. Not the first time that Stephen has said this, he's not the first person who says it, but van, does he have a point?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I'm gonna shock you. I think he may have a point, I think what he is trying to point out, if an African-Americans are we now vote at 90-94 percent in the presidential, for Democrats. And what that means is Republicans often don't even try to compete for our vote. In fact, after the last vote, you had a lot of Republicans saying, they want to pursue the Hispanic vote, The Latino vote, which they should. But they didn't even mention the black vote, they just written it off. I know it's dangerous for any group to be...

LEMON: OK.

JONES: Possibly written off by one group and taken for granted by another.

LEMON: And Van, I don't mean to rush you, but I want to make sure we get everything in. Because Crystal, Smith went on to say, explain why African-Americans should vote just for one election cycle. Take a look.

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, EDITOR OF CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN A.SMITH, TV AND RADIO HOST, ESPN: Vast majority of black Americans look at the Republican Party as the enemy. We looked at the Democratic Party even tacitly (ph) as our support based on as a result, we are very transparent in our support for them. So because of it, they have a license to take us for granted. The Republican Party has a license to summarily dismiss us, because they believe they will never get our vote anyway. And we end up finding ourselves devoid of any kind of representation whatsoever, because nobody is really competing to garner our vote and our support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, dismissed by one and then taken... WRIGHT: Right.

LEMON: For granted by the other one? Well, Crystal?

WRIGHT: Well, I think you're gonna be shocked to hear this from me Don, But I -- I kind of agree with Van. What van is saying is...

LEMON: Wow.

WRIGHT: We, black folks, we're not making our vote competitive, because Democrats just take us for granted in each election cycle. I mean, Don, you would be -- how absurd would it be if I looked at white Americans said, white America, why aren't you just voting for one party? You guys would all laugh me in the face, right? So, I'm not -- look, my party has some work to do in earning the vote as Stephen A. Smith said...

JONES: Amen.

WRIGHT: We got to ask for it...

LEMON: Well, sounds like Democrats...

WRIGHT: But I mean we're stupid...

LEMON: Have work to do as well in earning the vote.

WRIGHT: Right. Because we're, we're stupid because we just say, hey, I'm gonna throw it to democrats, lock, stock and barrel. You're not gonna get any party to pay attention to you that way -- whatever.

LEMON: This is writer Karen Hunter. She wrote for the Huffington Post, and I think this is a pretty compelling argument, I think it is very smart. She said, "For those who are so emotionally and physically repulsed by what the Republican Party has become and the idea of registering as a Republican would be a keen to cutting off your right foot. Remember, politics is not about emotion."

WRIGHT: Correct.

[22:44:59] LEMON: "It is about power. We have to stop being mad and upset and feeling neglected and overlooked and start using the ample power we have." And then crystal, she goes on to say that insanity is often defined as doing the same thing over and over again...

WRIGHT: Right.

LEMON: Expecting a different result. It's crazy for blacks to continue to support a Democratic Party which has for half a century taken us for granted, while at the same time, applying zero pressure to the other party...

WRIGHT: Right.

LEMON: Essentially letting them off the hook from even trying to woo our vote. JONES: Don, let me say something about this.

LEMON: Go ahead, Van.

WRIGHT: Well, wait.

LEMON: Go ahead...

WRIGHT: OK.

LEMON: Let Van in...

WRIGHT: Alright.

LEMON: And I'll let you respond.

JONES: Listen. I think that...

LEMON: (inaudible) start.

JONES: In a post-Obama Democratic Party, I think the Democrats have time to work harder for the African-American vote. I think its good reasons not to vote for Republicans, we voted (ph) that. But I think that the Democrats actually need to be aware, you cannot expect this super turnout, if we do not see better poll...

WRIGHT: Well --

JONES: When it comes to (inaudible).

LEMON: OK, 10 seconds --

WRIGHT: OK. I'm going to up the ante real quick on this. The new chairman of the congressional black caucus, Mr. Butterfield, Congressman Butterfield, in his opening speech as chair in January said, "Black America is in a state of emergency and as just worse off as it was 50 years ago." OK. Who is the party that blacks have voted for? For the last 50 years is Democrats, right? So I would say, you know, vote Republican one election cycle. It's like, oh, you're gonna lose, maybe four years...

LEMON: Right.

WRIGHT: Of disappointment, not 50.

LEMON: Don't put all of your power in one place. Don't put all your cards in one bet. OK, listen, we have a long election cycle coming up. We'll talk more, thank you. Coming up, go to church if you don't believe in God? You'd be surprised how many people are doing just that. We will talk about that coming up.

[22:46:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We hold our freedoms dear in this country, especially, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. But, that doesn't mean that people are necessarily feel free to call themselves, atheist. Kyra Phillips explains that in her new documentary, Atheists: Inside the World of Non-Believers. How you doing?

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you.

LEMON: You are tackling this. Alright, so this is a documentary airs tomorrow. You will go inside the world of Atheism. Explain to us what this looks like, what atheism looks like now in America. Why is it so controversial?

PHILLIPS: You know what, it's growing and it's interesting. There was a time where they just used the word atheist. And now, you are hearing humanist, nuns, skeptics, free-thinkers, and you will talk to leaders within the atheist community. It will say, this is all the same thing. These are people that don't believe in God, they're just scared to say the word. But then, we met a lot of these folks. You know, they don't believe in God, or they don't feel an affiliation to religion, and they like a sort of softer, gentler approach, because there is such a stigma on that word, atheist. People think devil worshiper. No moral compass --

LEMON: It doesn't necessarily mean that...

PHILLIPS: Yeah.

LEMON: You actually talked to a priest or it is a preacher who started...

PHILLIPS: Yes.

LEMON: A church for atheists.

PHILLIPS: Yes. And you know what? Before we even met with him, because, as he likes to say, he is out of the closet, OK. But there are --

LEMON: On atheism?

PHILLIPS: Oh, yeah.

LEMON: Yeah.

PHILLIPS: But there are more -- but it's interesting. A lot of these atheists compare themselves to gay and lesbians. It's just like that. It's living in the closet. Not able to be my real self and it's torturous.

LEMON: Alright.

PHILLIPS: I mean, you want to take -- you want to take?

LEMON: Yeah, let's listen.

PHILLIPS: Alright.

LEMON: Let's watch.

PHILLIPS: This is Jerry DeWitt.

LEMON: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three years ago, Jerry DeWitt lost his faith.

JERRY DEWITT, ATHEIST: It felt like living a lie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And made the hardest choice in his life.

DEWITT: The real heartbreak, soul crushing heart break, was realizing I had to give up the ministry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The news that Dewitt had become an atheist sent shock waves through the community, and the fallout was like a punch to the gut.

PHILLIPS: You lost it all, your job...

DEWITT: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Your congregation, your wife left. You lost all your money. So why stay here in Louisiana? Why not go somewhere that is more progressive, open minded?

DEWITT: If we're going to make things better, we got to make things better where things needed to be made better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And you go into his church and you feel like you are in church. But instead of, can I get an Amen? He says, can I get a Darwin? (ph)

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: And, and -- but, but Don, we also talked to preachers who, who, who, don't have, have the guts to, to come out...

LEMON: Alright.

PHILLIPS: And they're preaching every Sunday and their congregation doesn't know that they don't believe.

LEMON: Yes.

PHILLIPS: There is something called the clergy project. More than 600...

LEMON: Yeah.

PHILLIPS: Leaders in the faith community are struggling with the fact that they are preaching, but they don't believe in God and we talked to one of those preachers.

LEMON: I can't wait to see this, because you know, you and I discuss God and whether God exists and all of that.

PHILLIPS: Show in our faith.

LEMON: A lot and I know that you are very passion about it, so it's gonna be great, CNN's special report, Atheists: Inside the World of Non-Believers. Hosted by our own Kyra Phillips, that's tomorrow night at 9 Eastern. Everyone should watch that, I will be. Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: You bet.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

[22:54:09]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Some states don't require schools to test children's eyesight. This week CNN hero is fighting for children to see clearly into their future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alright. Chelsea.

CHELSEA ELLIOTT, CNN HERO: I was a very active child. Anything I could see I'd grab. I was barely 4 when I lost my vision in my left eye. The following years, I was so angry. This was an irreversible change. 25 percent of children ages 5 to 17 have a vision problem, 25 percent. How can you fully embrace all the opportunities available if you can't see them? I keep looking right at the light for me. Our program provides free vision screenings to all school age children in Maui County.

Well done. Thank you.

We actually used advance technology which allows us to test in seconds. If I had this device been around when I was 4-years-old, it could have saved my vision. After the screening, we deliver -- prepare report to the school help aid and for low income families. We provide access to an eye care professional and financial assistance to cover the cost of corrective wear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the castle was sparkling pink. My daughter loves books. We never thought something was wrong. So when I got the letter, we were caught off guard.

ELLIOTT: Hi.

Bradley reminded me a lot of myself. We both turned out to have pretty severe conditions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bradley is only 4-years-old and because they caught it early, we could help her. ELLIOTT: Just seeing her even today with glasses knowing that her

vision will be completely fine, because we caught it, that's what we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:59:54] LEMON: You can nominate a hero at cnnheroes.com.

That's it for us tonight, I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for watching us. See you back here tomorrow night. "AC360" starts, right now.