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Critical Talks on Debt Ceiling; Closing in on Tripoli; Baseball Fan Falls to his Death; Last Issue of "News of the World"

Aired July 10, 2011 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, here's the very latest on Julia's Kick Starter page, with about 18 hours left, she has raised more than $65,000, and the people at Kick Starter say since its launch in 2009, more than $70 million have been pledged to various projects from films to inventions.

This is the top of the hour, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Don Lemon.

The White House is buzzing tonight. The President has been huddled for the past hour with Congressional leaders to negotiate raising the debt ceiling. That will permit the federal government to borrow even more money than it owes already.

There you see the national debt clock in New York City. That's a live picture. Well over $14 trillion and counting, and counting. Just a few years ago when it reached $10 trillion they actually had to remake the signs to add space for an extra digit. We call it sign of the times on this program when we covered that story.

So joining us now to explain why this is so important to America's future, CNN's White House correspondent Dan Lothian, he is at the White House; and CNN senior political analyst David Gergen; also Jonathan Allen, senior congressional correspondent from Politico.

Dan Lothian, we're going to start with you; any signs of progress? The President said moments ago when asked, by someone in that room when they allowed reporters in, "Can you get this done in ten days?" And he said, "We have to."

(CROSSTALK)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: "We have to." That's right, just those three words. It shows the sense of urgency here at the White House and if I can point to sort of one visual clue here. Perhaps it's just because it's the weekend, but nonetheless, everyone dropped ties during this meeting. Perhaps a sign of how much work really needs to get done, compared to last week Thursday when they all met they were wearing their coats and ties.

But there is still a wide divide. While everyone had been talking about significant progress that has been made, Republicans have pulled back, because they don't see raising taxes as part of this equation, and the President is looking to do a grand deal. He wants to seize the moment here for the long term, and doesn't believe that now is the time to back down -- Don.

LEMON: I want to bring in David Gergen. David, we're looking around today talking about understanding the debt ceiling for the viewers and for ourselves, as a matter of fact and what's at stake here. And one of best things we came across was an op-ed on CNN.com that a debt deal could hurt Democrats in 2012. Why do you say that?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the President has been seeking a grand bargain. There was a time when he and John Boehner both seem to agree that that would be very desirable. But in John Boehner's mind as Republican, that always depended upon Democrats caving in on taxes and allowing the Republicans to have a deal that depended entirely on spending cuts. And that course was not in the cards.

But in -- in trying to go for the grand bargain, President Obama did something else that upset his left, and that is, he said that he was willing to entertain cuts, serious cuts in Medicare and even to look at Social Security. And the left in the Democratic Party has been insisting for some time now that into the 2012 elections, their defense of Medicare and Social Security, their willingness to stand up and say we will never cut this is essential to their campaign.

So of course, they were -- they were sizzling and Nancy Pelosi went to see the President Friday to say, wait a minute. You can't do this. You can't undercut us, but that's not the larger point right now. I think the larger point is, can these folks come up with a deal in the next ten days? That's the suspense, and can it -- can it be a meaningful deal, a credible deal to the financial markets?

LEMON: But I think it's also important, the larger point as well. I wonder if people at home, people back in those districts, Jonathan, know all the political posturing and all the ins and outs that are going on when it comes to these talks? Many of them may not like -- may not like it if they actually knew what was going on behind the scenes?

JONATHAN ALLEN, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: That's right. A lot of these new freshmen Republicans in the House were elected on a promise of transparency. President Obama ran on transparency in 2008 and what you've got now again is a small group of people getting behind closed doors to make huge changes to government.

We're not talking about $100 million. We're not talking about a billion dollars. We're talking about several trillion dollars in spending cuts. It could come from things, as David Gergen suggested, like Medicare and Social Security, were they to get that big, grand bargain. Even if they don't that, there may be some changes to entitlement programs.

On the other side, Democrats wanted to see some tax increases and you've got again a small set of people with very little input from the larger set of member of Congress making a deal behind closed doors and there won't be a lot of time for the public to assess that before members of Congress are asked to vote on it and then they have an effect on the ability of House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to actually pass a debt ceiling increase once some sort of agreement is made.

LEMON: Ok I was reading -- I was reading this today in the "New York Times," David. I'm going to give this to you. It says, nearly three dozen House Republicans and another dozen in the Senate have joined most of the Republican presidential candidates in signing a pledge that will not, that they will not vote to support the debt limit increase unless Congress approved a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution which is unlikely -- ok.

Most people agree, every economist, every economist of weight will say, by doing this they are possibly spooking the markets, and fooling with the economy of the world. This could throw an already -- an economy that's already teetering on the edge into, really, the abyss.

Do you think those who are doing this understand it, and do you think that people at home understand this as well?

GERGEN: I think there's a growing recognition among the political leaders in Washington that they're playing with fire. That time is running out and they must come up with a deal that does not put the U.S. economy into further jeopardy.

Back home I don't think people understand it very well. You know, the President and the leaders on both parties now agree it has to be done to lift the debt ceiling. But 70 percent of Americans in some recent polls said they don't think we need to raise -- we need to the debt ceiling.

So clearly, the educational process has not occurred and it goes to Jonathan's point. This is all being done at such a rush now at the last minute that the education process of bringing the country along, bringing constituents along for any kind of compromise, that time has basically almost run out.

So my sense is, Don that they are -- they're clearly not going to get a grand bargain. Even the -- the President is going to going try tonight to get a grand bargain. John Boehner has said let's bring it down to maybe $2 trillion instead of $4 trillion. I think getting to $2 trillion is -- is going to be awfully hard too.

And tonight is really important to figure out whether they can come up with some sort of consensus that that's their goal and they think they can get there or whether they're actually going to start lowering their sights even more.

LEMON: Yes, and you know, we keep saying it is, at least the way it's being portrayed in the media, to you Dan Lothian, is that it's the President against the Republicans. But also the President is also getting it from fellow Democrats. Isn't he?

LOTHIAN: He is. And you've been talking about this, because the President and other Democrats that insisted that things like Social Security and Medicare would not be on the table, that really, the people who needed to be bearing the big bulk of the burden here were wealthy Americans, wealthy corporations, and so closing some of those loopholes was the better solution, and so when the President starts talking about putting health -- putting Medicare or Social Security as part of the discussions on the table, then it does turn off the left of the party, those progressives, not happy about that at all.

And it becomes a much more difficult sell for them, when they go back to their districts, and certainly with the 2012 elections looming, it's not something that they want to have happen.

LEMON: All right. Hey, good stuff. Thank you, guys. Thank you, David Gergen. Thank you Jonathan Allen. Also our thanks to Dan Lothian.

And again, make sure you stick with CNN. We're going to continue to follow this developing story.

Looking at live pictures; look at the debt. How it just keeps going up. And two years ago, as we said, this debt clock had to be changed another number added to show just how much debt the U.S. has incurred. There you go well over $14 trillion.

Now this: Syrian activists were calling for an end to violent crackdowns against protesters by government security forces; that report is next.

And rocked by a huge hacking scandal: The British tabloid "News of the World" publishes its final edition today after 168 years. A report from London is straight ahead on CNN.

And if you want to reach out to us on social media, here is how you do it, Twitter, Facebook, CNN.com/don and on Four Square. And make sure you check out my new book "Transparent".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Syrian anti-government activists are calling for scenes like this to stop, security forces firing at unarmed protesters. President Bashar Al Assad's regime insists it is listening. It opened what it called national dialogue talks today with opposition members. Syria's Vice President says he hopes the meeting will lead to a democratic transition for the country.

At least two people are dead and dozens more are missing after a cruise ship capsized in Russia's Volga River. Officials say the double-decker vessel named "The Bulgaria" sank with 185 people aboard. Ships and helicopters and divers have rescued about 80 passengers. One survivor says "The Bulgaria" went down so fast that the crew didn't have time to pullout lifeboats. Many passengers just jumped into the water in panic.

In northern India, shocking images of a deadly train crash; at least 28 people were killed and 100 others were hurt when a passenger train jumped the tracks. It's feared the toll will rise as rescue crews search through the wreckage. Nearby residents rushed to the scene and smashed train car windows to help get trapped passengers out.

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta says Iraqi leaders need to crack down on armed factions that have been targeting American troops. Fourteen Americans were killed by hostile fire in June and three more in the first ten days of July.

Panetta is on his first trip to Iraq as head of the Pentagon. He's meeting with Iraqi leaders and U.S. troops who are scheduled to leave the country at end of the year. Iraqi officials are debating whether to ask the U.S. to stay beyond 2011.

Rebel fighters are closing in on the Libyan capital of Tripoli. They're now less than 100 miles away near Zawiya. CNN's Ben Wedeman is with them in the foothills of western Libya and he filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another mortar round rings out from the hills aimed at the plains below, at the town of Bir al Ghanam(ph). These fighters from Libya's Jabal Nafusa (ph) the western mountains have fought long and hard to get where they are using the rocky, dusty high ground to harass forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi. And when they fire, the other side often fires back.

(on camera): So apparently they have come under bombardment here this morning from the town which is only about three kilometers away. This is the last position of the rebel fighters before this town Bir al Ghanam (ph).

(voice-over): Many of the men here keep their faces covered in front of the camera, they're from Azzawiya (ph), a town still under Gadhafi's control and fear reprisals against their relatives.

Twenty-one year old college student Rashid (ph) is from rebel-held Zintan (ph). He says their immediate goal is to break through to Azzawiya (ph) which sits on one of the main highways to Tripoli.

"We will try to reach Azzawiya", he tells me, "and help our brothers there because they've been subjected to the worst crimes. So as you see every day we fire rockets on the enemy to drive them away."

At a nearby abandoned quarry, rebels relax in the shade. Lunch here is a simple affair: fresh camel meat and liver, spiced with a hefty helping of black humor.

"God willing", says this man, "we'll string up Gadhafi like this".

"During the long hours of boredom", Mustafa tells me, they listen in on the radio to the Libyan soldiers down below.

"We hear them speaking, he says, but they're speaking in code. It's not clear what they're saying." The message they're sending from the hills to Gadhafi's troop, however, is clear enough.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, upside Bir al Ghanam, Western Libya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And coming up on CNN -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Stone lost his life as a result of a tragic accident at Rangers' ballpark last night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The baseball community mourns the loss of a fan who accidentally fell over a stadium railing and died trying to catch a baseball thrown into the stands. Is it time to change security rails at baseball stadiums? That conversation is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It made me scared (ph) instant because I completely pictured my husband doing the same thing for my son.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Right now at stadiums around the country, fathers and sons are sitting in the stands eating hot dogs and watching the American pastime. And that is why a death at the Rangers Ballpark is hitting home for so many people. It is both terrible, a terrible accident, and a completely relatable one at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well -- this is it. That's -- why there is time -- wow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Shannon Stone reached for a ball and fell head-first over the railing dropping 20 feet to his death; his 6-year-old son, name is Cooper, right next to him. He saw the entire thing happen. The man beside Stone, his name is Ronnie Hargis, moved fast and tried to pull him back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONNIE HARGIS, TRIED TO SAFE FALLING RANGERS FAN: First instinct is reach out and grab him. I tried to grab him. I couldn't catch him and he went down and he went by me. I tried to grab him again and I missed. And it looked like in slow motion, his head was going to the ground. There's nothing I could do except watch him fall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Black tarps are now covering the gap Stone fell into and flags flying at half-staff at that ballpark.

Joe Trahan is a sports anchor for Dallas affiliate WFAA and he joins us now via Skype. Joe, thank you so much for joining us. This story is really disturbing a lot of people, because it could have happened to anyone, anyone. Couldn't it?

JOE TRAHAN, SPORTS ANCHOR, WFAA, DALLAS: You're right, Don. And it's just the cruelest of reminders of just how fragile human life can be and the mind-boggling part about this thing is everyone's intent was right. Josh Hamilton flipped the foul ball up to a little girl an inning or so earlier and he heard at that point Cooper Stone ask for a ball.

Most times big leaguers wouldn't even that. But he made a note of it. He's trying to do the right thing. Dad is obviously trying to do the right thing, Mr. Stone. And it's just hard to wrap your mind around how something like this could happen. And at that funeral tomorrow in Brownwood, there are going to be a lot of people asking why and how and unfortunately, Don, there are not going to be a lot of answers given.

LEMON: Yes, I know that they inspected the stadium and said that they weren't going to make any changes. But listen, I don't want to keep rolling this video just to roll it but I want to point out something. If we can roll that video, I want to show you about those railings.

As I was speaking to folks last night who are out, they were saying those railings come up below your waist if you're 6 feet or older (SIC). And it's at your center of gravity higher than the railings, and that's at a lot of baseball parks. Most of them -- most stadiums -- they have steep stairs. They've got concrete everywhere.

And if you look at -- roll that video -- I just want to look at it. You'll see that the railings were well below Mr. Stone's waist. Hold on, Joe. Can we get that video back. There we go. The video of him falling -- the video, not the still.

But, anyway -- so then what do we do? What happens? Are there going to be changes made, if there is a lawsuit -- if the wife of Mr. Stone comes forward? Because people are there, again, as we said, every single weekend and every single day mostly in stadiums.

TRAHAN: Well, because of that cruel reminder, Don, now the Rangers bear the burden of making some kind of change. Now, they're saying there might not be a change immediately, but I suspect that down the line we'll certainly see some changes.

Right now, I've spoken to Rangers officials and they tell me that there are meeting that have already taken place with city leaders. Meetings with architects of the ballpark, contractors and they're trying to find a permanent solution, not a stopgap one. There's been a lot of talk about netting. There was decking up there before that caused some concern and raised some fears about safety issues before.

So now it's incumbent upon the Rangers to come up with a long-term solution and one that will only ensure fans' safety. And I heard Fran Tarkenton, speaking earlier in the last hour.

And part of it is also fan awareness because I have to tell you Don I'm surprised there aren't more injuries especially down the first and third base lines with the advent of Smartphones and people texting and surfing the Internet down those first and third base line. Those are rocket shots coming off those bats, and there is danger there for fans' heads in these stadiums. There's been a spate of stadium deaths in the last several years.

This is a stark and cruel reminder that it's everyone's responsibility when you go a ballpark, when you take your kids to the ballpark, that do you need to have that extra measure of security and warning for everyone you take to the park.

LEMON: Yes. And listen, this isn't the case when it comes to Mr. Stone, but you know what people do, Joe, at a ballpark. They go. They have beer. They serve liquor at the stadiums. And so you're going up and down these steep stairs, and then you have those railings that are there at the bottom, some of them very low. So it's understandable.

You know, it's such a happy tradition for dads to take their sons to ball games. And you just can't help but identify with this family. I'm sure you'll agree with that.

TRAHAN: Yes. We certainly all do and I mean that's part of the thrill of going to the game. Shannon Stone bought the glove on the way there and that's what it's all -- it's what we all love about baseball, and getting to be a part of that tradition is getting that foul ball.

And just a point here, Don; that area where Mr. Stone fell from, is one of most popular areas when they're having batting practice pre- game. So people are always there trying to get a foul ball and, again we go back to the unexplainable issue of why this happened, because there have been thousands and thousands of balls hit in that area, people with gloves trying to get balls and nothing has happened until now.

And even so, now it's up to the Rangers to try to do something to make their ballpark even safer. Yes, it exceeded code, which is fine, but as we all know they now have to look at that.

LEMON: Joe Trahan is a sports anchor for our Dallas affiliate WFAA. Thank you, sir; appreciate your time.

TRAHAN: Thank you.

LEMON: Negotiations are under way at the White House to raise the debt ceiling for the federal government. We'll have an update, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's get you caught up on the headlines. High stakes negotiations at the White House are under way over raising the amount of money the federal government is allowed to borrow. President Obama says a deal needs to be reached with ten days. Republican congressional leaders say they won't agree to raise the debt ceiling without spending cuts. They're also balking at any proposed tax hikes. The Treasury Department has set August 2nd as the deadline to raise the debt ceiling. Further proof of the deteriorating relationship between the U.S. and Pakistan; the U.S. is withholding $800 million in military aid to that country. White House chief of staff Bill Daley confirmed the move on ABC's "This Week". The two countries are allies but there are major trust issues between the two, especially after U.S. Special Forces found Osama bin Laden hiding inside Pakistan.

After 168 years as Britain's top selling paper, the last edition of "News of the World" came out today. The paper is shutting down after allegations its staffers hacked into the phones of celebrities.

Rupert Murdoch head of the News International which owns the tabloid arrived in London for the final day and was seen reading the last edition. News International has told the 200 people laid off they can apply for jobs elsewhere in the company.

A report from London, straight ahead.

Britain's Prince William and his wife Catherine are heading home after their whirlwind tour of California and Canada. The royal newlyweds left quite an impression, literally in their hand imprints when they visited an art program for Inner City kids on LA's Skid Row.

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge also attended a job fair for U.S. military veterans and their families. Prince William hailed the troops whom he called the front lines of a remarkable relationship between the U.S. and Britain.

A NASA space shuttle is now docked with the International Space Station for the final time. The "Atlantis" is delivering supplies and spare parts. It will return to earth in two weeks marking the end of NASA's shuttle program.

All right. It is oppressive. It is unrelenting, and it is getting downright unsafe out there. I'm talking about the heat, of course, in many areas are or will be under heat advisories. I want to turn now to our meteorologist Jacqui Jeras to show us where the intense heat will be -- Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It's just terrible and it covers so much of the country. We're talking, you know, over a dozen major metropolitan areas that are going to be having heat indices that are, you know, really at dangerous levels.

Here's the part of the country we're talking about stretching and this stretches hundreds of miles from Iowa all the way down to almost the Gulf Coast. When you start to see these bright pink areas like Kansas City down towards Tulsa, Memphis, even into southern parts of Illinois, those are excessive heat warnings where the heat index is going to be feeling like as much as 115 degrees at times.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. This isn't just this weekend, folks. This is lasting at least into Tuesday for most of you, and will last even longer than that for some folks in the central plains, like Oklahoma City. Your heat advisory stays in effect all the way into next Saturday.

So unfortunately the news is not good for you folks. People are having a hard time in this heat. Take a look at these pictures from Milwaukee, Wisconsin this morning. The temperature was 85 degree but that was enough to send ten people to the hospital during the first rock and soul half marathon; this is all part of the summer festivities.

They know you love summer fests but unfortunately the heat didn't go well with these runners; also some hydration stations in the course ran out of water and that added to the problems as well.

We're checking in with some of our affiliates, too, to see what's going on here. Our affiliate KARK in Arkansas reporting eight people have died from the heat in the last week and they've got a whole page here on the heat wave. And then in Oklahoma City, KOCO, our affiliate there, people are sending in their photos. Look at how dry conditions are here. They see these cracks, are as much as eight to 12 inches deep.

People are taking pictures of their car thermometers. Look at that, showing 103 degrees. We had a bunch of records today, Wichita, 111. 111! Joplin, Missouri, they're still cleaning up from tornado damage. It was 106 there today. Oklahoma city, 105, 102 in Springfield and Harrison, Arkansas had a record of 101 degrees.

Now the heat index is more important than the actual temperature. Can you go to weather.gov and find a chart like this to find out just how bad it is where you are. You take the air temperature, your find the relative humidity and you calculate your heat index. And it will tell you how dangerous that level is and, unfortunately, that danger level is very high for a lot of people. Thunderstorms, the only thing that's going to bring those folks relief. We've got some severe stuff moving cross the upper Midwest pushing through the Dakotas and into western Minnesota. It's going to be a rough night up there for a lot of those folks. Don, you doing OK in that heat? It's rough.

LEMON: Yes.

JERAS: The air conditioner, way down.

LEMON: I know. it was hot earlier in here. But I mean nothing compared to the people actually having to deal with that, you know.

JERAS: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you so much, Jacqui.

JERAS: Sure.

LEMON: We appreciate it.

Remembering one of the most influential first ladies in our nation's history. Betty Ford who has died at the age of 93. That's right after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: After 168 years, "News of the World" is no more. The British tabloid published its last issue today was a victim of outrage over reports it hacked the phone of a missing teenage girl. CNN's Atika Shubert reports the final edition was an immediate collector's item.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Readers snapped up the final edition of "News of the World." Here it is. The headline is "Thank you and Goodbye." Five million copies were printed today and in many newsstands across London, it was sold out before noon.

Inside, the paper is both proud of its 168-year history and also apologetic for its "appalling wrongdoings." Here's what some readers had to say about the final edition of the newspaper.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we all feel that there's a lot of journalists there that really took brunt of what's going on. Murdoch seems to have escaped somehow. I think there's a lot more to be discovered, and I think it's British people, we like to seem to be fair across the world. This world, everyone will see what's going on. Won't they?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel sorry. It's not their fault. (INAUDIBLE) I don't know but not the ordinary people - not them. It's not their fault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's quite an institution in England. It's quite sad, really, but, yes. For me it's not particularly a serious newspaper. It's just sport of what's going on. Isn't it?

SHUBERT: Well, this is the headquarters for "News International" the parent company for "News of the World." Now, the newspaper's offices are shut, but Rupert Murdoch himself arrived here earlier this afternoon reading a copy of the "News of the World" final edition. And the question is, why exactly is he here? Is he here to handle the spiraling crisis and the ongoing police investigation? Three people have already been arrested, including Andy Coulson, a former editor of the "News of the World" and a former spin doctor for prime minister David Cameron. More arrests are expected.

Now, Murdoch may also be here to try and salvage his takeover for British broadcaster, BskyB, what is reported to be the more valuable prize in his media empire. That takeover needs to be approved by the government, but that takeover decision has been delayed, specifically because of these phone hacking allegations, and it now appears that the takeover bid is in serious jeopardy, and there are now concerns that the "News of the World" scandal may start to be affecting other parts of Rupert Murdoch's media empire.

Atika Shubert, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Atika. The nation is mourning the death of a first lady who conquered her own addiction and went on to help others. Betty Ford, the name behind the well-known Betty Ford Center died Friday at the age of 93 from natural causes. Two funerals are planned. One in California on Tuesday. The other is Thursday in Michigan. The public is invited to pay their respects.

And the wife of former President Gerald Ford was honest, and forthcoming about her addiction to alcohol and painkillers, and CNN's Larry King interviewed Betty Ford several times and found that out firsthand and he spoke with me by phone about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY KING, CNN HOST (ON THE PHONE): She lived a glorious life. She had a great family. In fact, there's one of the best moments in all the years I did on CNN was when Gerald Ford described what her intervention scene was like when the whole family gathered around to - to tell their mother and wife that she's an alcoholic, and she had to accept that, and then come forward with it.

(on camera): You were helped an intervention which your husband brilliantly described on this show, one night.

BETTY FORD, FMR. FIRST LADY: Yes.

KING: What happened?

FORD: It was a terrible shock to me. I knew I didn't feel well and all of a sudden the family walked in.

KING: The whole family?

FORD: Surprisingly, yes. Everybody had come from all around the country, and they -

KING: Were you in bed?

FORD: No, no. I was up, but I wasn't dressed. It was in the morning. And they walked in, and I thought, isn't this dear? They've come because I don't feel well. How sweet of them, and then I saw these strangers with them. And I knew immediately something was wrong. And it was a doctor and another doctor, and a nurse who were helping them with the intervention.

KING: Were you in shock?

FORD: I didn't know quite what it was at that point, because I knew nothing about an intervention.

KING: But when they spoke, were you shocked?

FORD: Oh, yes. I was totally destroyed when my family said what they felt.

KING (ON THE PHONE): I think she'll be remembered a long time, has a special place. America has a special place for people like this, and Betty Ford owns a little piece of it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Ford was married to her husband for 58 years. Gerald Ford died in 2006.

And coming up next, I'm going to introduce to you an 80-year-old man I found to be a very special person and a very special artist. You'll see what I mean, right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: When you think of the art world maybe you think of the hip scenes in New York or London, the white sterile galleries, artists and latest fashions. Or the rich appraising pieces for their walls. Thornton Dial is about as far away from all that as can you get. Dial has a major exhibit opening in Atlanta this weekend. Here's his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (voice-over): To the casual observer it's just art. To the critical eye as shown in this Alabama public television documentary, Thornton Dial's work, brilliant art.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it asks all of us about genius. You know? And where does it reside?

LEMON: With no formal education, he can't even read, the 82-year-old began creating as a dirt-poor child in the south whose family couldn't afford toys making his own out of cans and string. He worked as a steel worker, carpenter and brick layer then started a family business making painted steel furniture. That gave him more time to create art. Then at the ripe age of 60 he was discovered by art collector Bill Arnett, a skyrocket ride to fame and wealth and controversy.

JACQUELYN SERWER, CHIEF CURATOR, CORCORAN GALLERY OF ART: It would not be a controversial thing to say that there has been racism in the art world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wouldn't even look at a work by say Thornton Dial and consider it artwork in the museum.

LEMON: And in 1993, "60 Minutes" profiled Dial in a story that insinuated that Bill Arnett had been exploiting Dial. Both men took great offense.

THORNTON DIAL, ARTIST: It was Don that made me what I am, and I really appreciate him for what he did for me.

LEMON: Dial has some trouble walking these days after a stroke, but he's on the rise again. More popular than ever. More prolific than ever. Finally landing a series of shows at major galleries and museums around the country. Some of his work has sold for tens of thousands of dollars.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And I had the chance of a lifetime to sit down with Thornton Dial. My in-depth conversation with him, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Before the break we brought you the story of Thornton Dial, an artist who transcends racial barriers, a lack of formal education and the occasional snobbery of the art world. Breaking many of the rules with his one of a kind compositions. Here's my conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (on camera): You didn't go to school. Did you?

DIAL: No.

LEMON: Did you learn to read and write?

DIAL: No.

LEMON: None of that?

DIAL: No.

LEMON: But you know how to be an artist? You're self-taught. How did you start? As a kid?

DIAL: Well, yes. I started when I was a kid playing with stuff. Yes.

LEMON: Like what? Tell me.

DIAL: Well, I used to play with a whole lot of cans and things and a lot of the things I used to play with.

LEMON: This is your favorite?

DIAL: You're right.

LEMON: This is Tuscaloosa. Tuscaloosa just happened.

DIAL: I was looking at that storm when it was going down through there. It's there for you to see. And see what the Lord has did.

LEMON: Did you realize when you were putting all this stuff together that it was art or were you just messing around?

DIAL: Well, you just sit there by yourself. You know? If you're doing things you set it by your own self and then after you set it by yourself, and it didn't hold up, well, I've got to make another one.

LEMON: And what did you call it before art?

DIAL: I didn't call it nothing.

LEMON: Because you didn't go school for art?

DIAL: right, right.

LEMON: Do you understand that some people say things about that. They may be jealous.

DIAL: Well, I feel that way, too. I feel the same way you speaking that way. Because some people get jealous of that kind of stuff. But you can't be jealous of what god got for you. You know? Because that's your mind.

LEMON: Your talent.

DIAL: Huh?

LEMON: And your talent?

DIAL: Oh, yes. Yes. That's it. That's the coal mine right there.

LEMON: Jesus Christ in the coal mine.

DIAL: Yes, yes.

LEMON: Tell me about Jesus Christ in the coal mine?

DIAL: Well, he's everywhere. You see after you go down in the mine, you're depending on the Lord. And that's Jesus Christ. You can't depend on nobody else. Who you going to depend on?

LEMON: So when people call you folk art. They try to put you in a category. Some people in the art world say that's racist. It's art.

DIAL: Right.

LEMON: What do you think?

DIAL: I think it's art too because actually I think all art is eye.

LEMON: It seems to me you that don't let any of it bother you.

DIAL: Nothing. Nothing. It never has.

LEMON: Not even the controversies?

DIAL: No.

LEMON: Not even when people write you or say about you?

DIAL: Well, feel good about it. You know? You have to feel good about something.

LEMON: I'm wondering if you look at this stuff and you go, me? All this for me?

DIAL: Yes. I think about it. I think about it, all of that, too. Because it's amazing. It's amazing to see stuff that I did, and people have came and looked at it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Thornton Dial, thank you so much, for allowing me to interview you. The exhibit is running now through August 27th at the (INAUDIBLE) Gallery in Atlanta.

Casey Anthony, acquitted this week of murdering her little girl will be free from jail one week from today. After a break, a live report from Orlando with Drew Petrimoulx who was there when the verdict came down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's check your headlines right now.

President Obama says he wants a deal to raise the federal government's debt ceiling within 10 days. He and congressional leaders are meeting about that right now at the White House. The main sticking points are raising taxes and spending cuts to reduce the deficit. The government has maxed out its borrowing at $14.3 trillion. If it can't borrow more, it risks defaulting on its financial obligations. We're going to have more on this developing story at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, tonight on CNN.

A federal report blasting how probation officers handled the case of Philip Garido. He is the California man who admits kidnapping and sexually assaulting Jaycee Dugard over 18 years. Garido was a registered sex offender when Dugard was kidnapped in 1991. The report calls the way probation officers supervised Garido clearly substandard.

Meanwhile, Jaycee Dugard is speaking out publicly for the first time. While in captivity she gave birth to two children and in an ABC interviews she talks about how she felt when she saw her first newborn daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAYCEE DUGARD, KIDNAP VICTIM: Very painful, but then I saw her. She was beautiful. I felt like I wasn't alone anymore. I had somebody that was mine. I wasn't alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Dugard has also written a book at her ordeal, it's called "A Stolen Life."

I want to turn now to the ongoing saga of Casey Anthony. One week from today she will walk out of jail a free woman. Her sensational murder trial in the death of her two-year-old daughter Caylee ended in acquittal even though she was found guilty of lying to police.

I want to bring in now Drew Petrimoulx. He's a reporter from WDBO Radio in Orlando. He's been joining us throughout this trial. Drew, Casey Anthony is now so famous. Some would say infamous, that her getting out of jail could become a huge spectacle. What should we expect come next Sunday?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Yes, it would be very interesting to see what the jail is going to try to try to do to keep both Casey Anthony and the public safe. They have said that they are going to be taking extra precautions to make sure that happens but are keeping very close to the (INAUDIBLE) exactly what they're going to do. I will note this though, on the day when the verdict was read, they blocked off the regular exit of the jail where normally inmates get out. Like she was going to be let out of that exit.

I don't know if things have changed now, because of the anticipation of it, and you know she was going to be released this Wednesday. They moved that back. So there's definitely some plans in place to make sure everything goes smoothly, but there will be - you know, there will be a big public interest and being there, there will probably be a lot of spectators there. So the sheriff's office definitely has its work cut out for them.

LEMON: Drew, as we saw when the verdict came down, the outrage around the country. But mostly, a lot of it really right there at the courthouse, and you're in the area there covering it all. I'm wondering, is this starting to settle in now, that people - are they starting to accept this verdict?

PETRIMOULX: Yes. The crowds have really left the courthouse. There for a couple of days, people really just hung around. There were some protests. People with their signs. Not only was a lot of the anger directed at Casey Anthony, but we saw a lot of anger directed at the jurors. We saw signs calling the jurors murderers and that was one of the big concerns of Judge Belvin Perry. He has withheld release of the names of those jurors because he's so concerned of people taking actions against them. Of course, with public record of law here in Florida, members of the media, lawyers representing members of the media have filed a motion to have those names released and the judge said that he will have to release them, but right now he's, you know, going through a cooling off period to try to let people's emotions settle down a little bit before he releases those names into the public.

LEMON: I have to ask you this - do you think there's anywhere that she can possibly go where she won't be hounded by reporters or just people?

PETRIMOULX: Maybe not in this country. I think that, you know, anywhere she goes in this country there's going to be an intense interest not only from the public but also, you know, if she goes to same places like New York and L.A., but the paparazzi there would be so intense and they'll want to capture her pictures and know every single thing that she's doing. I think she'll be followed around intensely. In both those locations.

I think probably the best bet for her, and I've talked to some people in public relations and people that handle these type of things, that she should lay low and not be seen out in public. But, of course, anywhere she goes. I saw TMZ had already gotten some pictures or gotten some pictures of her parents just at a pool laying out. So I mean, there is going to be huge interest in getting pictures of here, knowing every single move that she makes and also you know, there's been a lot of speculation whether she'll try to make money off this. Sell her interview, sell her story. Of course, that will just really, you know, drum this up even more.

LEMON: And you know, can you talk more, though, about her safety? Because as I understand, there is a lot, there's a big effort going on to try to protect her. Not only her, her family as well. Is her safety really at risk here?

PETRIMOULX: It's hard to say. The judge, you know, the judge said that this is something that he's very concerned about. The sheriff's office. The jail. You know, everybody's very concerned about this. There's only so much that everyone can do, you know, it's a free country. You can't lock down the entire country. A lot of it will be up to her. Where she goes and what she does. The more she's out in public, the more there would be an opportunity for somebody to act out like this. I think, you know, the majority of people that are, even the people that are extremely upset about this, the farthest they're willing to go is to the streets. Hold up signs. Do these chants at the free speech zones. But you never know. It only takes one person.

So there's only so much can you do and I think a lot of it will depend on what she does and where she goes. But I know the sheriff's office, of course, extremely ironic, because the same sheriff's office that her lawyer has accused of botching this investigation, of accusing her of something that she didn't do is going to be the same sheriff's office that is charged with keeping her safe once she gets out of jail.

LEMON: Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, we really appreciate you joining us throughout the weeks and the coverage that you've given us. Thank you, sir.

You know, we're still keeping an eye on the White House for you. The president is meeting with congressional leaders on the debt ceiling ended about a half hour ago, we're told. And we don't have any indication on how those talks went. We're working on it. The meeting lasted 75 minutes. We'll have the very latest on this tonight for you at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you then.