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Newtown Says More Good-Byes; Obama Tackles Gun Policy Changes; Fiscal Cliff Just 13 Days Away; Guns in Schools; Police Search for Motive & Answers

Aired December 19, 2012 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Suzanne Malveaux. This hour in the CNN NEWSROOM, new developments in the aftermath of the Connecticut school massacre. The teacher who died trying to protect her students will be laid to rest today and so were three more children killed in that shooting.

The funerals for a teacher, Victoria Soto, and students, Caroline Previdi, Daniel Bardon and Charlotte Bacon are part of the good-byes in Newtown. Also today, President Obama announces the first steps towards changing gun policies and other issues raised by the Newtown tragedy. He is appointing vice president Biden to work with cabinet departments and outside groups to come up with some reforms. The president wants to move fast on those reforms. He has given the vice president one month to come up with recommendations for both gun control and mental health. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am also betting that the majority, the vast majority, of responsible law-abiding gun owners would be some of the first to say that we should be able to keep an irresponsible law breaking few from buying a weapon of war. I'm willing to bet that they don't think that using a gun and using common sense are incompatible ideas, that an unbalanced man shouldn't be able to get his mans on a military style assault rifle so easily.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: I want to bring our Candy Crowley. And, Candy, we were both watching the president just moments ago, and he has been calling for a Congress to compromise. He said -- very poignantly, he says, if this past week has done anything, it should give us perspective on what is important. Do you think the president's message and this agency -- this task force that he has developed, do you think that is going to convince lawmakers to sit down and actually work out and compromise something as controversial as an assault weapons' ban?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It will be interesting to see how controversial an assault weapons' ban, which was in place for 10 years before all of Congress, Republicans and Democrats, let it expire -- it'll be interesting to see if that isn't an issue whose time has reappeared. You know, I don't think we have time --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

CROWLEY: -- to take the pulse. Right now, a lot of these folks are kind of caught up in a lot of the back and forth. But I think you may see that in Congress there is some willingness, at least, to look at this as part of a whole concept of, you know, mental health along with the culture, et cetera, et cetera. But remember that there are a lot of things the president can do on his own. I mean, he's president. He's got all the agencies, the Department of Education, Health and Human Services, the Firearms and Tobacco Agency, all of those things, so he can pour money into things that might help in mental health or school safety. He can do any number of things, and I suspect that's what he's looking for now because he's going to need Congress in terms of gun control. And Congress just takes a wild look at these things, which sometimes is -- sometimes is OK because they're complicated subjects and sometimes the public is looking for something on a little faster track.

MALVEAUX: Yes, , I was -- I was heartened by that, actually, Candy, the fact that he said, OK, I'm going to give you one month to come up with some ideas, some concrete ideas, and that this was not a commission that was going to take six months or so. Do you think that's realistic? I mean, when you look at the timetable there, you still got the fiscal cliff negotiations. You've got State of the Union that's coming, a whole bunch of things right around the corner, and Congress loves to go on vacation so -- on these recesses. What do you make of the timetable?

CROWLEY: I think the timetable for coming up with ideas and putting those ideas on the table, a month, certainly there are -- everybody you talk to, Suzanne, whether it's in mental health, whether it's in the cultural things, whether it's in school safety, whether it's in gun control, say we could do these things quickly.

So, it won't be that hard to come up with ideas. It's -- it will be harder to come up with ideas that you can then put in the legislation not that hard to come up with ideas. It will it be harder to come up with ideas that you can then put into legislative language and get passed. But, again, there are a lot of things they could pinpoint for the president. You know, I -- he's -- we know he's talked to the education secretary. We know he's talked to the head of health and human services and said, what can we do? Those are agencies, you know, specifically --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

CROWLEY: -- for education, specifically for health. There are some things they could do it without dealing with Congress. But gun bans, no. That has to be on Capitol Hill.

MALVEAUX: All right. Candy, thank you, appreciate it. The president, as you could tell, the shooting in Newtown putting the gun debate front and center. And that is something that we will continue to talk about as well as the Second Amendment saying that we have the right to bear arms. We're going to take a break, and we'll be right back.

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MALVEAUX: The president also talked about the standoff with Republicans over the debt deal, what turned into a news conference. In just 13 days, there's going to be more than $500 billion in tax hikes as well as some spending cuts that are going to kick in, unless the president and House speaker, John Boehner, reach a deal. And right now, the two are at a standoff. They are still speaking but the speaker is expected to move forward on his own, holding a vote on a proposal calling Plan B. It calls for raising taxes on income of more than a million dollars a year. It was unthinkable idea for Republicans just a couple of months ago. It still might be unthinkable for many of the conservatives in the House.

I want to bring in Dana Bash on Capitol Hill. Dana, first of all, the president talked about this just moments ago.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

MALVEAUX: And what struck me here is when he said that it is very hard for them to say yes to me. At some point, they have to take me out of the equation, essentially accusing the Republicans of playing politics -- sheer playing politics, and trying to get back at him, score points and using the negotiations of the fiscal cliff to do that.

BASH: I think that's definitely part of it. But the other side to that same coin, Suzanne, is the president basically signaling that he understands the politics of this and understands how hard it is for many of these Republicans to vote for something that the president has signed off on even if their own Republican speaker was the other signator of that -- of that deal, if there is a deal.

But let's listen to what the president said because it was very interesting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: At some point, there's got to be, I think, a recognition on the part of my Republican friends that -- you know, take the deal. You know, they will be able to claim that they have worked with me over the last two years to reduce the deficit more than any other deficit reduction package. That we will have stabilized it for 10 years. That is a significant achievement for them. They should be proud of it. But they keep on finding ways to say, no, as opposed to finding ways to say, yes. And I don't know how much of that just has to do with -- you know, it is very hard for them to say, yes, to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, as the president was speaking, Suzanne, I got an e-mail from a spokesman for the speaker responding -- saying that the reason why the speaker rejected the president's latest offer is because they simply do not see it in the balanced way that the White House is framing it. But they still see it as way more in tax revenue than spending cuts. That it's not the, quote, unquote, balanced way that the president promised in the campaign.

Look, the bottom line is that this is definitely at a -- it's always been delicate, but it is really at kind of a climax of its delicacy because of where we are on the calendar. I mean, it is --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

BASH: -- just 14 days, as you said, but also we're getting so close to Christmas and the time is now shrinking for them to even do something legislatively. It's always possible. They can always do what the will is to do here, and they can move things quickly. But I would not be surprised if we hear from the speaker to respond, because we heard really extensively from the president in a way that we haven't on where his point of view is on these secretive negotiations.

MALVEAUX: He has certainly been very effective in taking his message directly to the American people which has been part of his plan. And, Dana, I want you to read the tea leaves, if you could for a moment. The president said two things. He said that he was puzzled that Republicans were not on board with his plan. He was puzzled but he also said he was optimistic and he thought we could get this done before the holiday. Do you think that that is something that is actually being worked out?

BASH: Well, according to sources in both parties, there has not -- until right before the president's press conference at least, has not really been active real negotiations. There have been discussions but no negotiate -- no negotiations. And, of course, there's a difference on a staff level. You know, what some Republicans here on Capitol Hill have suggested to me is that perhaps the motions need to be gone through what the speaker is putting forward in this vote tomorrow on tax rates staying where they are for people making a million dollars or less because maybe Republicans, in particular, have to see where the votes are, meaning, yes, it could pass the House but it's not going to pass the Senate.

So, to get that flushed out of their system so that people can realize, OK, the only way to avert the fiscal cliff, including, by the way, those big spending cuts that are going to happen, is to get some kind of deal done. One other interesting note I want to point out is that as we were talking, Grover Norquist, who, of course, is a pretty powerful guy when it comes to Republicans. He's gotten most of House Republicans to sign a pledge vowing not to raise taxes. He said, officially, that he does not believe that this vote that the speaker is pushing tomorrow to keep tax rates where they are for people making a million dollars or less is a -- would break the pledge. So, he basically gave conservatives a pass -- or cover which is a pretty big deal because of the other subplot going on would be -- has been whether or not the speaker can even get enough of his own party to vote for taxes to go up for people making a --

MALVEAUX: Right, right.

BASH: -- million dollars or more.

MALVEAUX: Right, right. BASH: So, that's interesting.

MALVEAUX: All right. All the -- all the back behind-the-scenes workings as well. Dana, thank you. Good to see you.

BASH: You, too.

MALVEAUX: Long-time gun control advocates say the time is it to act now. Representative Caroline McCarthy's husband, she (ph) was killed and her son wounded in the Long Island rail road shooting. That happened in 1993. McCarthy says, the elementary school shootings in Newtown were a turning point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINE MCCARTHY (D), NEW YORK: There is always sadness after a mass the shooting. There's public mourning. But the anger from the American people, they are fed up with the gun violence that we're seeing in our country. Anger from people that are fed up with the gun lobby, the tactics they use down here in Washington. And the anger from the people, to be very honest with you, fed up with the lack of courage. The lack of courage here in Washington to take a stand, to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: McCarthy says, this time is different because President Obama is standing behind the efforts to strengthen gun control policies. And as you can tell, the shooting in Newtown putting the gun debate front and center. The Second Amendment says, we have the right to bear arms but should we?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY PRATT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA: America is not the wild west that you are depicting. We only have the problem in our cities and, unhappily, in our schools where people like you have been able to get laws put on the books that keep people from being able to defend themselves. I honestly don't understand it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: One of the many emotional debates after the killings in Connecticut, whether or not teachers in schools should actually carry guns. That's right. Last night on CNN, Piers Morgan talked with the head of the group, Gun Owners of America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRATT: It seems so obvious that since we have concealed carry laws in all of our country now, people can get a concealed firearm, and yet we have laws that say not in schools. And so in the very places that have been sought out by monsters, such as the murderer of these adults and children, we're saying, no, we don't want you to be able to defend yourself. It's better that you just sit there and wait to be killed. And we find that morally incomprehensible and deeply disturbing that the desire to defend life has been so cast aside into whatever political correctness views guns as the ultimate evil. Evil's in our hearts, not in the guns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Tom Fuentes is here. He's a former assistant FBI director and FBI firearms instructor.

Tom, you've heard that position. There are some who feel strongly now that teachers, if they had guns, would have been able to stop that school shooting. What -- does that make sense to you?

TOM FUENTES, FORMER ASSISTANT FBI DIRECTOR: Suzanne, frankly it does not. During my six years as a police officer, I was a firearm instructor. During my almost 30 years in the FBI, I was a firearm instructor and a SWAT team member. I know what it takes to train someone to be proficient with pistols, shotguns, rifles, assault weapons. It taking many, many hours. What police officers and federal agents go through, hundreds and hundreds of hours, and they continue that training throughout their career. The idea that we could take 7.2 million teachers in this country from preschool through university and train them to be proficient, the hundreds of hours that it would take, it would just be too much of a daunting task, I think.

The second thing is that, I hate to bring this up, but all six of the adult staff members in Sandy Hook were female. And I know from my experience in the FBI and on the police department, it's very difficult for female plain clothed officers or agents to basically hide a gun. You know, the men can wear jackets, hide it under the jacket. They can have a sidearm on their belt. But for women, it's a much more difficult issue. Many choose to carry it in a purse. And now where would that purse be during the school day when the teacher's in front of the classroom? It's probably going to be locked in a closet. If it's under the desk, a kid could grab it and misuse it. So the idea of weapon security proficiency, the ability to do anything with that gun, would just be impractical.

MALVEAUX: Tom, I had a chance to talk to Oregon State Representative Dennis Richardson about this because he is somebody who has this idea. He believes that you could set it up almost like an air marshal system where instead of the teachers who are armed, you have a volunteer, let's say, who was trained, who was at the school, who was armed and every school would have someone like that. Do you think that that's a good idea?

FUENTES: Well, I think just from a manpower standpoint, that may be difficult to staff over the long run. But say, first of all, we have about 100,000 schools in the United States. Many of these schools are operating from 7:00 or 8:00 in the morning, when the first students arrive. In the case of many of the schools that have after school and evening activities, you would need people on hand from early in the morning until 10:00, 11:00 at night, let's say, especially with high schools having football games and basketball games. People are in that school. Frankly, I've not only been a former law enforcement officer, but I was a school janitor for three years working my way through college and am familiar with how many hours people are within the school building from early in the morning until late at night. So to have somebody there that's trained, whether it's a police officer -- and again, these volunteers, where would they come from? Would they have the requisite training that police officers and federal agents get. It would be hard to staff that.

Right now in the United States, there's approximately 800,000 sworn police officers and federal officers. Now that -- by "sworn" that means basically gun-carrying law enforcement officers. So if you have 100,000 schools operating from early in the morning till late in the evening, and multiple buildings, especially if you're talking universities and high school campuses, the sheer numbers of people to put on hand would be overwhelming.

MALVEAUX: And, Tom, let me --

FUENTES: And then again --

MALVEAUX: OK.

FUENTES: I'm sorry.

MALVEAUX: I want you to listen here because the president spoke about this. He drew a clear line between those who own guns responsibly and those who don't. I want you to listen to what he said.

FUENTES: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The fact is, the vast majority of gun owners in America are responsible. They buy their guns legally and they use them safely. Whether for hunting or sport shooting, collection or protection. But you know what? I am also betting that the majority, the vast majority of responsible law-abiding gunners would be some of the first to say that we should be able to keep an irresponsible, law-breaking few from buying a weapon of war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Tom, would you consider the weapon, the rifle, the very specific type of rifle that was used in the Connecticut shooting, to be a weapon of war?

FUENTES: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It fires a bullet that's three times faster than a bullet coming out of either that glock or sig sauer that you saw, which is pretty much the normal law enforcement used weaponry. So it's an extremely powerful weapon.

And I think that the argument that there's no gun control, we have gun control. It's on a continuum. You cannot go out and buy a 50 caliber machine gun or an M-16 or an AK-47 that's fully automatic. At least most of the people can't unless you become licensed through, you know, the procedures that are in place to get federal firearms license to be able to own it and have that weapon registered with the government, with ATF. So the idea that there's no control, there is control. It's just whether or not we want to have that control stop at a certain point where maybe you can have pistols, you can have a shotgun, you can have a hunting rifle, which, after you fire the gun, you have to operate the bolt, you eject it and put another bullet in. It's not capable of accurately shooting hundreds of rounds per minute the way an assault rifle is.

MALVEAUX: All right. OK. Tom Fuentes, thank you. We appreciate it.

FUENTES: You're welcome.

MALVEAUX: Renewed gun control debate, of course, coming on the heels on the school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut. One of the victims, teacher Lauren Rousseau, died while protecting her students. Her boyfriend is speaking out about her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I wake up in the morning, I can smell, you know, my girlfriend's perfume and it makes me cry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Secretary of Education Arne Duncan tweeted this earlier. "On my way to Newtown today to pay respects to Principal Dawn Hochsprung and to hear from educators on how we can help." Duncan was one of three cabinet members who met on Monday with President Obama to discuss how to respond to this tragedy. Hochsprung, of course, was killed Friday when she tried to stop the gunman in her school. Five other adults and 20 children died in that massacre.

Police are now scouring the gunman's home, Adam Lanza's home, to get his computer, looking for a motive behind this, anything, an explanation. Our Deborah Feyerick, she is following all the investigation.

And you are outside of the home. Do we have any new activity that we are seeing or anything that we've learned that is new that could help us understand how or even why this happened?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Suzanne, there's a much heavier presence here today of Connecticut State Police, as well as local police and federal investigators.

We saw just a few minutes ago them bring out a box. A box of what we believe to be evidence. They brought back the major crime scene lab and they're using that not only to put evidence there, but they can run some preliminary tests on whatever it is that they're looking for, whatever it is they're discovering.

You know, they're really pursuing the angle of what was going on inside his head. This sort of psychiatric component in terms of what Adam Lanza was thinking about when he was doing this. And so that is an area that they're really concentrating on.

We can tell you that there are at least eight folks who are inside, who are going back over the home to look for evidence. And we don't know quite what it is, but we do know that, in fact, over the last couple of days, they've really sort of tamped it down. Now they have ramped it back up. So whatever it is that's inside that house, they're spending hours sorting through it to try to get some additional evidence.

We can tell you that the University of Connecticut, there are reports that they've brought in a geneticist again. The medical examiner has said that they want to look not only at this Asperger's than the gunman is alleged to have had, but they also want to see whether there was some underlying psychiatric component as well.

We are told that the body of Nancy Lanza, the mother, has still not been claimed. Nobody has come to claim that body. So we're not clear as to what arrangements are being made.

Just if you can kind of take a look up there. An investigator coming back down. And, again, there's not a lot that's going on, Suzanne, but we're sort of here waiting for any sort of word, any sort of movement of what's going on inside.

We also do know that once they are done with this home, a man was sent out here and tells us that they're planning on boarding up all the windows once the investigation, once the analysis of everything inside is complete.

Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Do we know if it was just the mother and the son who lived in that house? Was there anyone else who lived there with them?