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Kidnap Victims will Not Testify; Snowden will Not Face the Death Penalty; Zimmerman Juror Speaks Out; Father Leaves Four-Year-Old with Arsenal

Aired July 26, 2013 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, ANCHOR, "CNN NEWSROOM": Hello, everyone. Nice to have you with us on this Friday morning. I'm Pamela Brown in for Ashleigh Banfield.

A very busy news day today, we want to start with the end of the ordeal for three Ohio women held captive for a decade who now won't have to testify in the case against their captor.

We got our first glimpse of Michelle Knight, Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus earlier this month when they released a YouTube video thanking people all over the world for the outpouring of support.

And, as you remember, their time in captivity ended with this phone call

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR (via telephone): Cleveland 911, do you need ...

AMANDA BERRY, KIDNAPPING VICTIM (via telephone): Help me. I'm Amanda Berry.

911 OPERATOR (via telephone): Do you need police, fire or ambulance?

BERRY (via telephone): I need police.

911 OPERATOR (via telephone): OK. And what's going on there.

BERRY (via telephone): I've been kidnapped, and I've been missing for 10 years, and I'm here. I'm free now.

911 OPERATOR (via telephone): OK, and what's your ...

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: The victims not want to have to testify at the trial of Ariel Castro, the man facing 957 charges in this case including kidnapping and rape.

But now, thanks to a plea deal accepted just moments ago, they will not have to testify.

All right, we want top bring in our legal panel. We have Jeff Green with us now, defense attorney, and former prosecutor -- sorry -- Jeff Gold.

Jeff, nice to have you here with us. First off, let's just get your reaction to this plea deal. What do you think of it?

JEFFREY GOLD, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think it's great. I think that the worst possible thing would be to hold these victims hostage more, have them have to appear at trial and testify and relive that ordeal.

The prosecutor has gotten everything that it would get at a trial. Capital case would have been very difficult for the state under Ohio law.

Castro is pleading to a thousand years and making it very clear on the record that he will never get out. The Judge is dotting his Is and crossing his Ts, so this plea will not be appealed.

And it's a great day for the victims if that's possible that after that great ordeal that they could have a good day, but at least their ordeal will be over soon.

BROWN: All right, let's just take a moment and actually listen to Ariel Castro pleading guilty. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The law states that a prisoner serving a sentence of life imprisonment without parole under 2929.03 is not eligible for parole, will not receive parole and will be in prison until death.

Do you understand this?

ARIEL CASTRO, ACCUSED KIDNAPPER: Yes, I do, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe for any reason that you'll be released from prison before you die of natural causes?

CASTRO: Excuse me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think there is any reason, any hope that you might be getting out of prison before you die?

CASTRO: I don't think there's any reason, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has anybody ever told you that the law could change and that you might be released? Is that -- I mean, do you understand ...

CASTRO: That was one of my concerns of my -- concerns, and they assured me that nothing's going to change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, so you understand you will be in prison for life. You don't have even the expectation or the hope of getting out. Is that clear?

CASTRO: I understand that, your honor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Jeff, listening to him, I was struck at how different he seemed compared to the other hearings.

I've been covering this story since the beginning, and before when he would appear in court, he had his head down; he wouldn't make eye contact.

Today he just seemed more at peace. He spoke. He said that -- he talked about his sexual problems. He talked about telling the FBI everything from the beginning, as CNN had reported from the beginning, that he had confessed to authorities.

And he just was more outspoken today and just seemed more relaxed. What do you make of his appearance, Jeff?

GOLD: Well, he's been talking about this plea deal with his lawyers. It's something his lawyers were actively seeking, so as far as he's concerned, he's not going to get the death penalty. That's for sure.

I think it was pretty clear, based on the facts of this case, that he would always spend the rest of his life in prison.

So for him, it's a win. For the state, as I said before, it's a win. I think he's comfortable with it, having spoken to his lawyers.

This is not something you talk to your client about, you know, two minutes before. It's something that he has been talking to his lawyers about all along, so he's at peace with it.

BROWN: In many ways, this plea deal is not surprising, but you look at the number of charges he was facing, Jeff, 977 charges.

What do you think the strategy was here from the prosecution's side?

GOLD: First of all, prosecutors always overcharge. That's just what they do. They charge everything they possibly can because most cases in America are, in fact, plea agreements.

You know, sometimes the public, you know, doesn't realize that because they see a lot of trials on TV. That's what the media tends to cover.

But in reality, 98 percent of all cases in America are plea bargained to some degree, and that gives the prosecutor flexibility to throw out charges. In this case the defendant pled to virtually every charge.

The prosecutor said on the record he was merging, meaning that there were 40 charges that were really part of other charges anyway, and that even if convicted at a trial, a judge would have to have thrown them out through a doctrine called merger. They go together.

So, in essence, the defendant pled guilty to every single charge. And that's to make darned sure that the thousand years will stick.

BROWN: Important to distinguish, he was facing 977 charges, now 937.

As I mentioned, I've been covering this case from the beginning. I know that these women did not want to testify, and they're still healing.

But what do you think this does for them, this plea deal does for them? Do you think it's closure of some sort? What's your view?

GOLD: Absolutely. As I said before, I mean, take a look at some cases we've seen recently.

Look at the Travis Alexander family having to go through three-and-a- half months of a trial plus, and now facing another trial on the death penalty again, I mean, having to relive it, having to go into court and hear their family member, you know, made to be seen as if he was the villain in the case.

Here, these victims have been held hostage long enough. I would wholeheartedly agree with them, their lawyers, the prosecutors in this case that if this case can be resolved now, by the defendant agreeing to what the most likely result would be at the end of a trial, which is that he will never get out of prison, that's a good result. I am sure they are very relieved.

BROWN: And I just want to mention I just got a text from the women's attorney, Jim Wooley. And he said a statement, a written statement, will be released right after this hearing, so, of course, we're going to keep an eye on that.

Mo Ivory, defense attorney, I want to go to you now and talk about this. Does this end here, life in prison without parole for Ariel Castro, or do you think something else is to come, perhaps a civil case?

MO IVORY, HOST, "THE MO IVORY SHOW": Perhaps there could be a civil case, but I'm not really sure that the women are really interested in that.

I think what they want is closure. I think that this -- him agreeing to this gives them a little bit of that in the sense that they know he will never be out again, ever.

This is the best way the justice system could have handled this without going and spending a whole lot of money prosecuting this, you know, this man who's done these atrocities.

So I don't -- I'm not really sure that the women feel that they could gain anything from that now. Maybe if they can figure out some other way to go after some other assets that we don't know about, but I'm not really sure that that's what they want to do. It hasn't seemed that way.

These women, I am so proud of them for the way they have handled this. And I hope that this acceptance of this plea brings them some closure, gives them some release and helps them move forward.

BROWN: You know, it's incredible, Mo, you mentioned that.

Just learning about all the horrific details that these young women went through and then to see that YouTube video, to see how they're healing, just trying to move forward with their life and keep a positive attitude, it's incredible, truly incredible.

Mo Ivory, Jeff Gold, thank you so much, and stick around. We want you to weigh in on a few other legal discussions, including what we're hearing from another one of the jurors in the George Zimmerman trial.

We're going to talk to you in just a few minutes. Thank you.

All right now, let's move on to some other top stories today. Thirty- one people remain in critical condition this morning as a result of this train crash in northwestern Spain.

Eighty people were killed. The investigation is focusing on the train's speed when it crashed.

The driver, seen here, bloody, right after the crash, is now in police custody while in the hospital. A police superintendent says his, quote, "recklessness" caused the accident.

We now know more this morning about what may have caused the crash landing of the Southwest jet -- Airline's jet at New York's LaGuardia airport.

Federal investigators say the nose wheel hit the runway first instead of the wheels under the wings, which is normal procedure. That hard impact caused the nose wheel to collapse.

Halliburton will plead guilty to destroying key evidence linked to the 2010 Gulf oil disaster. The Justice Department says the company threw out test results pertaining to the massive oil rig leak. Halliburton will pay a $200,000 fine and be subject to three years probation.

Vandals splattered the Lincoln Memorial with green paint overnight. A visitor found the damage early this morning and reported it to police.

Right now, police are reviewing surveillance footage, but so far have released no information.

The monument will be closed to visitors until the paint is all cleaned up. Officials are hopeful that it will reopen sometime later today.

And Attorney General Eric Holder has been talking to his Russian counterpart about Edward Snowden. We're going to talk to you about what he's saying right after thing break.

And we're also going to have our legal panel weigh in. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: CNN has new developments in the Edward Snowden case. Eric Holder has sent a letter to the Russian government in a bid to resolve the controversial issue between Washington and Moscow.

All right, let's bring in our crime and justice correspondent, Joe Johns. Joe, nice to see you. Tell us a little bit more about this.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pamela.

Well, the attorney general wrote a letter, in fact, this letter, to the Russian minister of justice, confirming that Edward Snowden will not face the death penalty and will not be tortured if he's returned to the United States.

This is a no-brainer for those of us in the U.S., but Snowden has suggested that those things might happen to him, and so the A.G. felt it necessary to put all of this down on paper.

The letter essentially states what we already know to be fact, that the charges against Snowden are not death-penalty eligible, and torture is illegal in the United States.

The importance of this is that Snowden has applied for temporary asylum in Russia on grounds that he might be tortured or subject to the death penalty.

Holder says the assurances he's now given essentially eliminates Snowden's claim that he should be treated as a refugee, Pamela.

BROWN: Is this unusual?

JOHNS: I don't think it's that unusual, but then again, circumstances are extremely unusual.

There is a negotiation, or at least there has been, as to whether Snowden will be granted asylum in Russia or returned to the United States.

So, as part of all of that, the United States wants to at least put on record that nothing extraordinary is going to happen to Snowden should he be returning to the United States and to face charges under the Espionage Act, Pamela.

BROWN: All right, we'll keep an eye on it as the story continues.

Joe Johns, thank you so much.

Another juror from the Zimmerman trial is speaking out and she's not happy about the verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We will have more of that interview for you, right after this break. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A juror who voted to acquit George Zimmerman in the murder of Trayvon Martin says she regrets verdict. According to ABC, juror B-29 is a 36-year-old Puerto Rican woman identified only as Maddy (ph). We know from jury selection she is a mother of eight children and moved from Chicago to Florida. She works in a nursing home as a certified nursing assistant. She told ABC she wanted to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder but the law made it impossible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUROR B-29, JUROR FOR THE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN CASE: George Zimmerman got away with murder. But you can't get away from God.

BROWN: Anguished and apologetic. The juror B-29 going by the name Maddy told ABC's Robin Roberts she favored convicting George Zimmerman of second-degree murder.

JUROR B-29: I'm the only minority and I felt like I let a lot of people down.

BROWN: Maddy says it was the all-female jury's interpretation of the law that ultimately led them to acquitting Zimmerman.

JUROR B-29: For myself, he's guilty. As the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't find -- you can't say he's guilty.

BROWN: Anderson Cooper spoke exclusively to juror B-37 soon after the verdict about how they got to a not guilty verdict.

JUROR B-37, JUROR FOR THE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN CASE: After hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the law and reading it over and over and over again, we decided there's just no way -- other place go.

BROWN: After more than 16 hours of deliberations, Maddy says she struggled with the proof to convict.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you go from in nine hours from feeling he was guilty of second-degree murder to not guilty?

JUROR B-29: In between the nine hours (ph), it was hard. A lot of us wanted to find something bad, something that we could connect to the law.

BROWN: Maddy concedes she still struggles with the verdict and public outcry that followed.

JUROR B-29: I fell on my knees and I broke down, and my husband was hold me and I was screaming and crying. I kept saying to myself I feel that I killed him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you like to say to Trayvon's parents?

JUROR B-29: I would like to apologize because I feel like I let them down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Trayvon Martin's mother was crushed by the juror's confession and in a written statement Sybrina Fulton said this:

"It is devastating for my family to hear the comments from juror B-29, comments which we already knew in our hearts to be true. That George Zimmerman literally got away with murder."

Sybrina Fulton is scheduled to speak at noon at the National Urban League in Philadelphia, and she could use the forum to push for federal charges against Zimmerman.

Let's bring in our legal panel to discuss this. Attorneys Mo Ivory and Jeff Gold and HLN's Ryan Smith. Nice to see you three here. Mea culpa is not exactly what you expect to hear from a juror. She clearly feels like she owes an apology to Martin's family. Does she?

IVORY: Absolutely. And this is so hard for me because I -- I feel so -- I'm so emotional about the verdict. I don't apologize for that emotional connection at all. The legal side of me understands her conflict. But I also felt like she was very much bullied by B-37 in that deliberation. I do feel like she could have been that one vote that came -- you know, made it a hung jury which would have given the ability to retry George Zimmerman. I feel like she caved.

Part of me is very upset with her. I think the apologies after are empty apologies. Then I understand her to be a mother of eight, and I feel very sympathetic towards her pain because I know that it is real. I know her apology to Trayvon's parents is real. But I'm angry with her for not being strong enough to go against the bullies, the five others, and especially B-37, where she could have been the deciding vote to retry him and maybe the verdict would be different.

BROWN: But, Mo, all fairness here, to the jurors, it was clear they -- they took their job very seriously. They went into that room, deliberated and looked at that law. Isn't that what they are supposed to do to put their emotions aside, emotions aside, look at the law, and make that decision based on the law? By the way, there were other jurors who came in and wanted to find him guilty of manslaughter. They also changed their minds.

IVORY: Two others.

BROWN: Wasn't she doing her job here? Do you think that she was really just bullied?

IVORY: I think a little bit of both. I think absolutely that it is the job to go in there and look at the law. How often does that happen? They are people, they have emotions, they considered things. Some come harder, some come less, you know, less strong. So you can't tell me that B-37 wasn't going in there with her preconceived notions, with her ideas of what she wanted to happen.

Yes, I understand the law of it. I am not dismissing that. I am not dismissing the duty of a juror to look at the law and apply it. I do not want us to forget these are real people and when they go in and think one way, they can come out completely differently and based on the personalities in the room.

BROWN: All right. Jeff, let's go to you now. Do you think the jurors had other choices under the law? Do you think this was their only choice that they went with?

GOLD: I don't think that they had any choice. I sat in that courtroom for most of the trial. I watched this particular juror who really didn't pay that much attention compared to some of the other jurors in my opinion. And I don't believe that she was bullied by the other jurors at all. I believe that this is a matter of buyer's remorse. That after the fact, she sees this as sort of black and white. No pun intended. And she feels she somehow let other people down in the community.

I don't think that she expressed herself exactly as she meant when she said he got away with murder. I think she meant he got away with a killing. And that killing isn't a good thing and even though it wasn't illegal, God will take care of it. I think the media has taken her word, using murder, as if she meant something other than her actual words in the interview which was she had to do this under the law. After the fact, the protest is what the bullying is.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Hold on. Mo, let me ask Ryan this question. There has been outrage since the verdict. These jurors were sequestered. They had no idea what was going on. There were protests, President Obama spoke out about this. Ryan, do you think the aftermath of the verdict might have contributed to her feeling this remorse and -- all this emotion and peeling so torn up more so than the verdict? What do you think?

RYAN SMITH, ANCHOR, HLN'S EVENING EXPRESS: Absolutely, I think it did. Will are a couple of factors going on here. Like Jeff, I was in the courtroom and saw most of the end of the case and closing. I saw her in that courtroom taking notes when the prosecution would make points on their power point. I thought she might be a voice for the prosecution in that jury room.

What this shows you is the push and pull people feel. We'd like to say they're going to take emotion out of it but it is impossible to take emotion out of a case when you have somebody who has died.

I think what happened here is -- you talk about the gut feeling people have in juries. I think she walked in there with a gut feeling that George Zimmerman is guilty with something. But she looked at the law, she talked to her other people there in the jury room, and just felt the pull to go to the other side. Also, let's not forget that a jury came back with a question asking for specification on the manslaughter charge. The judge said, hey, come back with something specific and we will answer that question. Never came back with anything. Somewhere during that time period, there was some convincing going on in that jury as happens often and someone switched their position and she was one of them. She said that. (CROSSTALK)

IVORY: Jeff said that don't take her words that she didn't mean he got away with murder. Yes, she did mean that. And he did. Let's not say that her -- she wasn't saying what she meant. He did get away with murder.

BROWN: There have been --

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: Got away with a killing. It wasn't murder. To say it was murder when the jury acquitted him is inappropriate.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: We have heard death threats against these jurors. Again, they went in there and, as we saw, heard from two of them now. They tried to do their job best they can. What's your opinion about this? These jurors went in and did their job and now they're facing all this backlash. Even if you disagree with the verdict.

IVORY: I think it is terrible. I don't think any of the jurors should be getting death threats. I don't think they should fear for their safety. They were asked to come to do their civic duty. They did it. Whether you agree with the verdict that they came with or not, doesn't mean their lives should be put in jeopardy or there should be any backlash from what verdict they did come back with. But -- it doesn't mean you have to agree with it. You don't also have to agree that the law was applied evenly or done, you know, justifiably because --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Point made. We hear you. We hear all three of you. We appreciate your insight and analysis. We respect all of your opinions and perspective. Thank you Mo Ivory, Jeff Gold, and Ryan Smith. We appreciate. We will talk to a couple of you soon.

Next story may just shock you. South Florida man left his 4-year-old daughter home alone with her teddy bear, and arsenal of assault rifles and a grenade. That story up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: What would you say about a 4-year-old girl left alone at home with an arsenal of weapons? Police in Miami say that's child neglect and neighbors saw little Analise Bianche wandering alone at an apartment complex. When she led police back to her home, they found several assault rifles, ammo, even a grenade. The father said he had to get to work and thought his wife was on her way to home when he left the child. Louis Bianche is charged now with child neglect, but didn't have anything to say to reporters after he posted bail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep it up and you will get arrested again. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Bianche says he owns the weapons legally and Miami police are checking on that. Custody hearing today will decide if the child was allowed to go back home. CNN did reach out to the attorney and still waiting for a response.

Let's get now to our legal team once again. Attorney and radio host Mo Ivory joins us now from Atlanta, and criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Jeff Gold in Philadelphia. Let's start with you, Jeff. Do you think either parent will get custody today? Should they?

GOLD: I don't know if they will get it today. Custody was taken away quite rightfully. I mean first of all, leaving your kid alone? That's pretty bad.