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Sustained Gunfire At Kenya Mall; Black Smoke Rising From Mall In Kenya; Terrorists No Longer Control Mall; Police Urge Downloads Of IOS 7; "Modern Family" Wins Best Comedy; Shortest Speech Ever; Obama Versus The NRA Over Guns; Hillary Clinton Talks 2016

Aired September 23, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, terror at the mall. Militants open fire and killing innocent civilians. Americans may be among the attackers.

Plus the revealing new interview with Hillary Clinton, what she says about running for president and how she is now spending her days.

And if you have an iPhone, New York police have a message for you. Download Apple's new operating system. It could protect you from Apple-picking thieves. The second hour of NEWSROOM starts now.

Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. After two straight days of fighting, the armed standoff inside a mall in Kenya show signs of ending soon, but gunfire has been a constant all day. Our Zain Verjee was caught in the middle of it this morning camera rolling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do we have a helmet? Where is the helmet? Come in. There's a gunman on the loose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're right.

VERJEE: Is everyone OK? Helmets, helmets. They say come inside. What do we do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. Let's take you live to Kenya now because in the last few hours, Kenya forces did say they have control of Nairobi's Westgate Mall, but as you can see that smoke still rises from the building. Mattresses set on fire by the terrorists may be to blame. Today, two more al Shabaab terrorists have been killed and the terrorists may include three from the United States.

Sixty two people have died since this attack began on Saturday, 175 people including five Americans were hurt when a dozen or so armed gunmen stormed the mall targeting non-Muslims. Zain Verjee is live in Nairobi, Kenya. Zain, just moments ago, we saw you ducking from that gunfire. Where was it coming from? VERJEE: It was coming from the Westgate Mall, Carol. That's just a short distance sort of to my right diagonally that way. There was a strong exchange of gunfire. The government is saying that they have the whole thing under control. Now the mall is four levels and it's pretty big. You can fit 3,000 people into it. They are saying it is in control. Israeli Special Forces along with the Kenyan military have been in there for hours doing this operation.

However, the gunfire indicates that they do not have everything totally under control. I've spoken to a few analysts who have been in that kind of situation before and they say that analyzing those gunshots sounds like they were clearing rooms and there's a possibility that the gunman, one or two or more, could have still been on the loose. It sounds like -- inside the mall. It sounds like they don't have it fully under control.

We're also not getting too much information about what the hostage situation is. The government is saying that most of them are freed, but that's it. That's all we've heard. We don't know if they are being debriefed, if they are being looked after, if they have serious casualties or what. Typically they would come here but they haven't.

You know, Carol, there's so much drama going on today. The last three days of the siege, the situation where I am ebbs and flows with different levels of tension. We know how the drama has unfolded, but we do not know how it's going to end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE (voice-over): With helicopters circling overhead, explosions and gunfire ringing out inside, the Kenyan military in a major operation to regain control of most of the Westgate Mall and rescuing most of the hostages after a two-day standoff. Al Shabaab militants, al Qaeda Somali affiliates, stormed the four-storey upscale shopping mall on Saturday using multiple entrance points, throwing grenades and firing at those inside.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bullets were running over my head, but God protected me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot at my head, but luckily it hit the wall behind me.

VERJEE: Innocent civilians ducking for cover as gunshots shattered the calm of the packed shopping mall. Sheer horror inside the mall as hundreds flee for their lives, some hiding out in stores seeking cover wherever they can to survive and some, like Sara Head from Washington, hid in the stairwell for an hour and a half escaping to safety.

SARA HEAD, KENYAN MALL SHOOTING SURVIVOR: People were telling us to be quiet. I was pretty afraid that it was unsafe to exit but I did anyway.

VERJEE: "New York Times" photographer, Tyler Hicks, describes the mayhem he encountered as he shot these images. TYLER HICKS, PHOTOGRAPHER, "NEW YORK TIMES" (via telephone): Some people have been shot in the stomach, in the leg. Dozens of injuries streaming out among terrified civilians. You can see that there were people who had been killed, who were laying in different parts of the mall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will be fine.

VERJEE: But for Kenya's president, the massacre is not only a tragedy for his country. It's a personal one, one of his nephews and his fiance among the dead.

PRESIDENT UHURU KENYATTA, KENYA: I feel the pain of every life we have lost and share your grief at our nation's loss.

VERJEE: The 30-year-old Bendita Malakia, a North Carolina native who was eating on the terrace when the gunmen attacked.

BENDITA MALAKIA, ESCAPED KENYA MALL SHOOTING: We stood up and we started to turn and then there was a second then we heard machine guns and then we started to run and there was a second explosion which knocked us on the ground.

VERJEE: Malikia counting her blessings after hiding in fear for four hours.

MALAKIA: It was completely luck. We were on the ground floor. We did a lot of praying in there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: So many people I know are praying themselves that the hostages that are still maybe trapped in there or if they have been released, that they are OK. We are praying that they will be OK. Carol, in the last few minutes, a helicopter has been circling again. This time it's kind of interesting because it's not taking a wide sweep all around us. It's focusing specifically in that area, which is where the mall is.

COSTELLO: All right, I know you'll keep an eye on it for us. Zain Verjee reporting live from Kenya this morning.

Of course, the American FBI is still working to identify any Americans that could have had a role in that mall attack in Kenya. Three Americans who were tied to the Midwest may have taken part in Saturday's attack.

Brian Todd is in Minneapolis this morning investigating that. Good morning, Brian. Do we know anything about these three Americans?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, all we know is that the FBI and other law enforcement sources telling us that they are investigating the possibility that three Americans may have been involved in that attack. We don't have names yet. There was some misinformation about names earlier, but that's been pulled back. It's just a possibility now that Americans may have been involved, but U.S. officials looking into that, looking to confirm that.

If there are Americans involved, it's a possibility that they could be -- some could be from here in the Minneapolis, St. Paul area. The reason, this area has been targeted by al Shabaab for recruitment. Many young Somali says as many as maybe 30 to 40 of them. Possibly more have been recruited by al Shabaab to go from this area in Minneapolis St. Paul back to Somalia and fight for that terrorist organization. It's been an ongoing problem. The FBI has investigated this for several years.

We've been here before doing stories on this situation. There have been indictments in this country on African-Americans or others just helping to recruit and some have been put in jail for this. But this is an ongoing problem and I just spoke to a community activist a short time ago who told me that the recruitment is still going on, it's a big problem, and many families are living in fear of the al Shabaab recruiters coming to this area, promising adventure, some kind of romantic ideal about what it's like to fight in Somalia, taking them over there and then they are getting involved in something they are not prepared for.

COSTELLO: I was going to ask you about that because supposedly went down inside this mall was unbelievably cruel, randomly shooting people after asking if they were Muslim or not, and that includes men, women, maybe children. What would attract someone living in the United States to that kind of lifestyle?

TODD: Well, from what we can piece together, Carol, what the recruiters do when they come here -- this is according to community activists who are working to combat this problem, actually. They are telling us that they often come here and promising them a life of adventure and actual fun and often misleading into what could be happening once they get there.

And then very often when they get there, they are basically forced to stay with this group. We have heard stories also of some young men, once they get to Somalia from this area saying I don't want to do this and either being forced to do it or actually killed by that group al Shabaab who has recruited them.

COSTELLO: Brian Todd reporting live from Minneapolis this morning.

Checking other top stories at 10 minutes past the hour, time is running out for Congress. Lawmakers have one week to pass a spending bill to avoid a government shutdown. On Friday, the House passed a short-term spending bill that would also cut funding for Obamacare. Democrats insist the bill will not pass the Senate.

Where in the world is George Zimmerman? According to the attorney for his estranged wife, Zimmerman is nowhere to be found. Meaning, they have not served him with those divorce papers. It's not exactly clear why he's disappeared, but Shellie Zimmerman's attorney tells CNN, a little space between the couple makes sense.

Nine million sold, Apple 5S and 5C smartphones flew out of the stores in the first three days of sales and thieves maybe salivating over the humongous supply now on the streets but not so fast. CNN's Alison Kosik has word of a new security feature that may prevent Apple picking. Tell us.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So Carol, what's interesting is, you know, I don't about you, but at least I'm used to getting parking tickets from the New York City Police and getting software advice from them. But now it turns out New York's finest are actually asking us to do something if we have an iPhone. They are saying, go ahead and download that IOS 7 now.

The NYPD are big fans of the Apple's new operating system because it has this new feature called "activation block" and according to the blog, "All Things D," the new feature actually forces you to enter an apple I.D. and a password before you can turn off the find my iPhone app so this would be a deterrent for thieves.

And it's police who are often called to find those stolen iPhones. So what they are doing is encouraging everybody who has an iPhone to download the operating system so they spend less time chasing down iPhones and I guess more time for writing parking tickets -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Actually I would prefer that because I had my iPhone picked, right. It's a scary thing. I know Apple is also pushing for this. So why aren't users just downloading the new system?

KOSIK: That's a really good question. Part of it is the fact that there's been so much demand for it that it's not downloading fast enough and people are giving up. This is why NYPD was out there putting flyers out there. Also, Attorney General Eric Snyderman, even San Francisco's attorney general were encouraging people to download the IOS 7. Crooks seem to like these iPhones and it's a huge problem that's growing in these major cities -- Carol.

COSTELLO: It certainly is. They are easily sold because you can get right into them. They have figured out a way, those thieves. Hopefully this new security system will work.

KOSIK: Exactly.

COSTELLO: Alison Kosik, thanks so much.

"Breaking Bad" did not win a lot of Emmys last night, but it finally got the biggy at the end, winning for best drama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the Emmy goes to -- "Breaking Bad."

COSTELLO: Yes, the show is in its final season but so what. It had previously been nominated three times and the fourth time was a charm. Another big winner is "Modern Family," which won best comedy series for the fourth time. Bob Newhart scored big for his role in "The Big Bang Theory." Can you believe that was Bob Newhart's first win in seven nominations? He says it was an awful good script. What a great guy. One of the most talked about Emmy speeches last night was this one. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRITT WEVER, BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS IN A COMEDY: Thank you -- thanks so much. Thank you so much -- I've got to go. Bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I thought she was joking at first. It lasted only 19 seconds. That was Merritt Wever from the show "Nurse Jackie." She won for best supporting actress in a comedy. Backstage she said she was scared because the win was so unexpected and she'll figure how she feels in therapy next week. Also, at least one television show was snubbed. Who was it? Nischelle Turner will explain later this hour.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, on one side the NRA, on the other side is President Obama. At issue, the nation's gun laws and what it will take to prevent another mass shooting. The president remembers those lost at the Navy Yard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It's the NRA versus President Obama over whether it's time to revamp the nation's gun laws. President Obama said our tears are not enough as he eulogized the 12 people killed in last week's Washington Navy Yard rampage. With five major mass shootings during his presidency, the president says something has to change.

CNN's Pamela Brown live in New York with more. Good morning.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. You know, it's been one week since 12 people were tragically killed in the shooting at the Washington Navy Yard renewing the ongoing debate over gun control in this country yet again and we're hearing many of the same talking points we heard right after the Newtown shooting in December.

On one side, NRA leaders calling for more guns and the right hands on the other. President Obama saying the Obama way to prevent future mass shootings is change.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): President Obama giving a passionate eulogy for the victims of last week's Naval Yard shooting and calling for a transformation of America's gun laws.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm not accepting these shootings as inevitable, but asking what can we do to prevent them from happening again and again and again.

BROWN: Earlier in the day, NRA President Wayne Lapierre appeared on "Meet the Press" with a controversial take of what went wrong that day?

WAYNE LAPIERRE, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: The problem is there weren't enough good guys with guns. When the good guys with guns got there, it stopped.

BROWN: Hours apart and in vastly different settings, Lapierre and the president's comments were almost a tennis match, a point counterpoint.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: There ought to be a cheque to all of us as a nation and as a people. It ought to load to some sort of transformation.

LAPIERRE: We need to look at letting the men and women that know firearms and are trained in them do what they do best, which is protect and survive.

BROWN: The president, once again, greeting Americans after four other major mass shootings during his presidency, in Fort Hood, Tucson, Arizona, Aurora, Colorado and in New Town, Connecticut, last December. What is clear, this debate will continue with both sides still unwilling to yield.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: This is the change that we need. It is a change overwhelmingly supported by the majority of Americans.

LAPIERRE: We will have this discussion told. It's on other channels. When the camera goes off, nobody is going to do anything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Lapierre also touched on how mental health records are not in the system as part as background checks in purchasing guns. The president said in his speech yesterday that the U.S. has not been dealing with mental health issues, but it's easier to get guns in other countries like the U.K. and Australia that have had stricter gun control laws put in place in recent years. But Carol, the president saying we're not going to see change in the next few weeks or months, but he says there will be change once Americans have had enough.

COSTELLO: I don't know, Pamela. We've seen this sad movie before.

BROWN: I sure have.

COSTELLO: With Mr. Lapierre. At the end of the day, nothing will change, because it hasn't so far yet, right?

BROWN: You're right. We're hearing the same talking points. Nothing has changed and that was really part of the president's tone during his speech yesterday.

COSTELLO: Pamela Brown reporting live for us this morning, thank you.

OK, let me bring you up. The next time you fly you might be able to keep your favorite gadget on board a little bit longer, or use it on board a little bit longer. That's because an FAA advisory panel is beginning to discuss the rules and it may include e-books or podcasts. But a ban on phone calls and texts is expected to stay in place if you're in the air on a plane. No word yet on when the panels decisions will be made public.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Democrats desperately want her to run, but Hillary Clinton says she's still not sure about 2016. Her new interview about the possibility of launching another White House bid, next.

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COSTELLO: She's the favorite to win the Democratic presidential primary in 2016 if she decides to run. But former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says she's still wrestling about whether to run for another White House bid. She opens up about the possibility in an interview with "New York" magazine. Our chief domestic affairs correspondent Jessica Yellin has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC AFFAIRD CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In her first interview since leaving office, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton tells "New York" magazine she wrestles with the idea of running for president. I do, but I'm both pragmatic and realistic, she says. I will just continue to weigh what the factors that would influence me making a decision after living on this high wire for 20 years, she says she's now enjoying ordinary every day pleasures, living in New York with former President Clinton.

We laugh at our dogs, we watch stupid movies, we take long walks. We go for a swim. Apparently talking about 2016 is not on their list of favorite things. I don't think even he is focused on that right now, she says.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I think she'd be the first to tell you that there's no such thing as a done deal ever by anybody but I don't know what she's going to do.

YELLIN: Really? Well, Clinton's friends and allies are more focused on November 8th, 2016, and talk about how she's grown since she became the runner in 2008. Joe Hagan interviewed friends of Hillary for his article.

JOE HAGAN, WRITER, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: She's more comfortable in her own skin. She's more independent. She's her own entity in a way she hadn't been before.

YELLIN: Long time aide is quoted as saying, "She doesn't repeat her mistake. She analyzes what went wrong here?" Translation, if she runs, 2016 won't look like 2008.

REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: If she does, she will win and when she becomes president she'll be one of the best equipped people to enter the White House in a very long time.

YELLIN: just to be safe, the political action committee, "Ready for Hillary," has raised more than a million dollars and the would-be candidate is staying in the public eye. This week she'll be front and center in her new role of the Clinton Global Initiative.

Her events this week will include a panel moderated by our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta and I have a little news for you, you can also expect her to make an appearance when President Obama and former President Clinton talk health care reform on Tuesday night. Jessica Yellin, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, men, women, both, who took over the mall in Kenya? Why this information could be key to figuring out what exactly went down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Kenyan forces say they have regained control of a mall under siege for more than two days.