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Kenyan Mall Attack; Al-Shabaab's U.S. Recruits; Blackberry Agrees to Buyout; Abducted Boy Reunited

Aired September 23, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to be with you on this Monday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Happening live, a deadly and still very active hostage situation at a shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya three days after an al Qaeda-linked militant stormed this upscale Westgate Mall. The FBI is looking into claims Americans are among the al Shabaab terrorists.

Here's what we know right now. There are 62 people who are dead and five Americans among those wounded. Right now, it is nightfall in Nairobi. And for the 200 civilian hostages, the nightmare is over. But their stories and the stories from all these shoppers are painting a horrifying picture of what it's like for those still held captive inside that mall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): The last thing we know, we heard some shots, and people rushing. They sounded like AK-47s.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We started to run, and there was a second explosion, which knocked us on the ground. You could hear while we were back there, them methodically kind of going from store to store, talking to people, asking questions, shooting, screams, and then it would stop for a while. It was completely luck because we were on the ground floor and easily accessible. So I think part of it was luck. We did a lot of praying in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): As I approached the mall, I could see lots of people running away. And as I got closer, it was clear that there were people who had been shot. I saw people who had been shot in the stomach and the leg. Dozens of injuries streaming out among just terrified civilians. The police and the army who were working there were desperately trying to get people evacuated out of the building. It became clear within a few minutes of getting inside the mall that no one really knew where the gunmen were. While we were getting from place to place, you could see that there were people who had been killed, who were laying in different parts of the mall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Kenyon authorities insist their forces are in control. They say they've arrested 10 people, killing three terrorists in a siege. But despite all of those assurances, our own reporter, who was live outside that mall tonight, Zain Verjee, continues to hear gunshots. In fact, in this one instance, she scrambled as the heavy gunfire rang out, sending aid workers and other journalists out there running.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's more gunfire. Is that more gunfire? OK. Can we have the helmet? Where's the helmet? Come here. This is the gunman. These are the gunmen on the loose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you all right?

VERJEE: Is everyone OK? Helmets. Helmets. They're saying come inside. What do we do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Frightening moments I'm sure for Zain, who joins us now live, and the crew.

Zain, after 9:00 your time, tell me what the situation is like there now. How much control do authorities have at this point?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The situation is nothing like what you just saw a moment ago. After that, everything just went quiet. Ever since then, we've heard no shooting, no explosions. There was a little bit more smoke. But then when twilight came, it pretty much dissipated.

We're hearing now from government officials, they are saying that they are in control of the mall, Westgate, which is a four-story mall. It's a pretty big one and it took time to secure it. However, there are many questions about the hostages because they also said that they have evacuated most of the hostages. Nobody has seen or heard from them, and this is a place where the hostages -- any casualties are supposed to come to. And the folks here have been told to close down in the next couple hours or so. So we're just waiting for the government, for some clarification on that. But the Kenyon military, along with the Israeli special forces, have, for pretty much the entire day, been inside Westgate Mall. It's not clear exactly what has gone down in there today, but they say they're in control for now.

BALDWIN: Zain, we know that there are conflicting reports about the presence of women in this group of hostage takers and, in particular, one woman, a white woman. Others are saying it was actually just men dressed as women. You mentioned you'd been talking to some high-level officials where you are. What are they telling you?

VERJEE: Well, on the men dressed as women idea, I spoke to a couple of security experts that say that is not really typical in a situation like this. They kind of battered it off saying that they wouldn't do something. It's just not their MO. They would have their faces and their shirts open, you know, ready to be taken to heaven. And that wasn't the case.

So -- there's also some reports of CCTV that indicate that there was a white woman brandishing a gun and caught on camera. I haven't seen this video, but intelligence services here are saying that they're analyzing as much CCTV footage as possible. Eyewitnesses also said there was a white woman.

So there's conflicting reports. Nobody is really sure about what the identities of the gunmen are here. There has been a list that was released, but officials are saying that there could have been more. There are one or two unknown questions. And the white woman question is something that's on everyone's minds here, but there's no answer.

BALDWIN: Zain Verjee for us outside of this shopping mall in Nairobi. Zain, thank you.

And as gunshots rang out, people ran, desperate to get as far from that mall as possible. But one man was running against the crush of people, running toward the mall. Tyler Hicks is a photographer for "The New York Times" and he happened to be near Nairobi's Westgate Mall when the gunmen opened fire. And I just want to share with you some of these - these amazing photos that Hicks took, and hear what he told CNN about what it was he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TYLER HICKS, PHOTOJOURNALIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" (voice-over): I happened to be close by to Westgate Mall when the violence broke out. And as I approached the mall, I could see lots of people running away. And as I got closer, it was clear that there were people who had been shot. I saw people who had been shot in the stomach and the leg. Dozens of injuries streaming out among just terrified civilians.

I continued to move along -- carefully along the front of the mall, where I saw three men who had been killed just at the front entrance of the mall, one of them still inside the car that he had been driving. And continued to proceed up into an upper parking garage where I, again, saw more people streaming out. The police and the army who were working there were desperately trying to get people evacuated out of the building.

I saw this as an opportunity to get inside, to go against the flow of the people and enter the mall and to see what was going on inside. And that's really where we got a real sense of how bad things were.

Even after being there an hour, an hour and a half, two hours, people continued to suddenly come out of shops. They had barricaded themselves inside, either by locking the doors or by pulling the metal gates down in front of the storefront windows. And that was, you know, every 15 or 20 minutes suddenly it seemed, you know, 20, 30, 50, 100 people would come out of another place that were just terrified. You know, they -- even though they could hear that there were people outside, they couldn't really tell who -- if that was the police or the army. They were just petrified and staying low, which was really, you know, the right thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Tyler Hicks, "New York Times."

Now, the threat posed by al-Shabaab reaches straight into America's heartland. Even though the group is smaller and less well known than al Qaeda, it has successfully recruited members from places like Minnesota, home to one of the nation's largest communities of Somali immigrants. So let's talk about this with Paul Cruickshank. He joins me now. He is a CNN terrorism analyst.

And, Paul, you have these dozens and dozens of young men recruited here in the states. They have gone to Africa. They have died fighting with al-Shabaab. My question is this, if they're trying to recruit Americans, give me the profile of someone they would be trying to recruit.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, the Americans that have gone to Somalia tend to be of Somali background. Many are from the Minneapolis, Minnesota, area. This is an area where there's quite high unemployment. They're not doing so well from a socioeconomic point of view. There's sort of feelings of discrimination and of anger. And al- Shabaab recruiters have actually gone out into the streets and sort of recruited on the streets in Minneapolis, taking advantage of these grievances, Brooke. So we've seen around 40 Americans going to Somalia. About 20 are still unaccounted for at this moment.

BALDWIN: There have been conflicting reports, as we've been following here at CNN, about possible involvement of Americans in this particular attack in the mall in Nairobi. And the al-Shabaab Twitter accounts, they come up, they're shut down, they come up, they're shut down. The White House says there is no confirmation any Americans were involved. But what do you know about al-Shabaab's credibility on all of this?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, their communication strategy seems to be in some disarray. At this point there is no confirmation that any Americans were involved in that attack. The U.S. State Department, other U.S. agencies are looking at this carefully, but they have not confirmed this as of now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Something else I wanted to ask you about. We had Bob Baer. You know Bob Baer, former CIA operative. He was on CNN today talking to one of my colleagues. And they were talking about these so-called soft targets, right? So, in this post-9/11, you know, we know they used planes for 9/11, but now there's this focus to these softer targets, to malls. You know, I think of - I think of a marathon or perhaps a sporting event. I mean what - where do you think, Paul, that police, security teams, should be stepping up security in the U.S. now?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it's very, very difficult to protect soft targets like shopping malls or commuter trains without completely changing how people live their lives. So there's always been a lot of concern that al Qaeda or other affiliated groups or indeed loan wolfs would launch attacks against these kind of soft targets. We saw that happen. Unfortunately, it's a deadly affect in Boston. So real concern that they could attempt to launch attacks against these softer targets. Obviously, more difficult to put an attack together like we saw in Kenya involving multiple gunmen in the United States. That sort of a plot more easy for U.S. intelligence and the FBI to detect, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Paul Cruickshank, thank you. Stay with me. Next hour I'll talk to a Somali-American men who lives in Minnesota. His nephew was actually recruited by al-Shabaab and died fighting in Somalia's civil war. We'll talk to him about these young men, who they're looking to recruit, and what these communities are doing to try to stop it.

In other news, just into us here at CNN, Blackberry is going private. The company had just announced a billion dollar loss in the second quarter and more than 4,000 layoffs, as smartphone completion from Apple and Samsung really has hit this company hard.

Zain Asher, let's go to you at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me about this deal.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

Yes, Blackberry has certainly found a buyer. Fairfax Financial Holdings is going to be planning to buy Blackberry for about $4.7 billion. Blackberry has had major trying times. You know you mentioned those layoffs. The company had planned to lay off 40 percent of its workers. Also the company posted second-quarter losses of about a billion dollars. The Z-10 and the Q-10 models really hadn't caught on as much as the company had expected. You know, it's really hard to believe that this company was once king of the market in terms of smartphones.

I do quickly want to mention that Blackberry actually halted trading about half an hour ago to limit volatility and now it's traded slightly higher. So it looks as though investors might see this as an opportunity perhaps to sort of limit some of our Blackberry's losses previously.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: This announcement, Zain, how big of a shock was it today?

ASHER: Well, listen, Brooke, you know, the writing has been on the wall for some time. People had been asking, you know, how long can Blackberry really survive on its own, you know? It mentioned those layoffs it announced on Friday. It hasn't kept up with competition, as you mentioned. It once commanded 50 percent of the marketplace and now it only has 3 percent of the marketplace. But the company has said that it's going to be focusing on corporate customers. But analysts really aren't even sure how much -- how many corporate customers there even are. The latest model of the Blackberry was a flop, but the CEO did specifically say that he was open to a sale. So this could be the lifeline that the company need.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Zain Asher. Thank you, Zain.

And the mall attack in Kenya comes as world leaders, including President Obama, arrive in New York for the U.N. General Assembly. Coming up, I will talk live with the police commissioner, Ray Kelly, about these new fears of attacks on soft targets here in the U.S.

Plus, 12 years ago, a baby boy goes missing, disappears, never seen, never heard from until now. He has been reunited with his dad. And the woman accused of taking him is no stranger. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just try to imagine this if you're a parent. Twelve years after a baby in Florida was allegedly abducted by his grandmother, he is finally back in the arms of his father. Sixty-year-old Sandy Hatte was helping out her son by watching the baby while he was at work. But when he returned home, Hatte and the baby were gone. It wasn't until last Wednesday, 12 years after that search began, the grandmother was arrested for alleged felony child abduction. Hatte is scheduled to be in court Wednesday to be assigned a public defender. And John Zarrella's working this for us out of Miami.

And, what a story. I mean what finally ended the search? What happened?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just amazing.

Well, apparently, back in early September, the grandmother goes to enroll the boy in school in Chillicothe, Missouri, and there are red flags that are raised by some of the things she said. School officials there didn't quite see everything, the i's dotted and the t's crossed. They notify police. Police begin the investigation. And the investigation ultimately reveals, hey, this little boys appears to have been abducted 12 years ago in Florida.

Now, the father, over the weekend, writes on his FaceBook page, "I just got the big one back from Sandy. She kidnapped him 12 years ago. She's in jail." What's interesting, Brooke, is that the family and the father had been trying to find the grandmother and had been searching for the boy for quite some time. In fact, they hired a private investigator because the family knew from a tip that the grandmother was in Missouri. The private investigator, using information he got from a traffic ticket that the grandmother had gotten -

BALDWIN: Wow.

ZARRELLA: Tracks her to Putnam County. From Putnam County, by the time they get there, she's gone. She had gone to Iowa. Well, at some point in time, after she's in Iowa, she gets skittish again and returns to Missouri, to Chillicothe. Police can't say exactly why she came back, but they say that over the course of time she had lived in Missouri for several years. So that ultimately is how it all played out. But the good news, of course, the little boy is safe and back home with his dad.

BALDWIN: So -- which is awesome. But what is this about this unique Missouri law that helped play a role in all of this?

ZARRELLA: Well, according to Missouri law, if you are in -- have a child for more than 30 days with you, but you are not the legal guardian, custodian of that child, then you are subject to being charged with child abduction. So that is how Missouri authorities got her on the child abduction case because she had been in the state for more than 30 days with a child from out of state, and that's how they got her. BALDWIN: Amazing. John Zarrella, thank you.

Coming up next, a proposed move in the friendly skies could perhaps make many of you very, very happy. Relaxed standards when it comes to using your tablets, your e-readers. Find out how soon those proposed changes could actually become a reality.

Plus this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stood up and we started to turn and then there was a second - then we heard machine guns. And then we started to run. And there was a second explosion, which knocked us on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Inside the Nairobi mall attack. This American woman shares her story of terror and chaos as hostage takers stormed the mall in Kenya. A situation still ongoing this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: If you raced to snap up one of the new iPhones over the weekend, you were not alone. Apple says it broke records, selling more than 9 million of those new phones in all of three days. Boston based mobile analytics firm Local Lytics says sales of the 5S outpaced the cheaper iPhone 5C by more than three to one. We should also tell you that Apple took a big old bite out of the market today. Shares are up more than 3 percent.

And for those of you who fly a lot, I certainly perked up when I read this this morning. It appears the FAA might be getting a bit more friendly when it comes to using portable electronic devices on planes. A major vote to relax safety rules could come this week. So here's the deal, passengers would be able to keep your iPads, your Kindles running throughout the flight. Starting next year, you would be able to read eBooks, listen to podcasts, watch videos from the moment you sit down to when it's time to walk off the plane. Aviation experts say most portable gadgets do not use enough power to actually interfere with aircraft electronics, but bans on using cell phones to make calls, to send text messages, even e-mails will most likely stay in place. And stay tuned, of course, to watch CNN tonight. Here's a preview of our primetime lineup.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: CNN tonight. At 7:00, " ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT," an American is held prisoner. Iran says he's a spy. His family tells his side of the story exclusively to CNN.

At 8:00 on " ANDERSON COOPER 360," terror in Kenya. Anderson updates you on the aftermath of the deadly attack at a Kenyan shopping mall. Did American citizens take part in the violence.

And at 9:00 on " PIERS MORGAN LIVE," could what's happening in Kenya happen in the U.S.? Piers asks, what does the Kenya terror attack mean for American security?

It all runs tonight on CNN starting with "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" at 7:00, "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at 8:00, and "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" at 9:00 tonight on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Coming up next, I heard something today from a former CIA officer that kind of gave me the chills.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (voice-over): And I'm very frightened. You know, I've been talking about malls for 10 years. Nothing's happened. But I think - I think this is -- that's the drift. They're going for any target they can get to. And planes are out. Malls are in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Planes are out, malls are in. This is from Bob Baer, former CIA operative, national security analyst. Coming up next, I'll talk live with the New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly about which soft targets scare him the most, how Gotham is stepping up security, not only in the wake of the attack in Africa, but as world leaders arrive for the U.N. General Assembly.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)