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Autopsy: Teen Shot Six Times From Front; Michael Brown's Mother Speaks Out; Missouri Governor Calls In National Guard; Volunteers Clean Up Ferguson Streets

Aired August 18, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Breaking news overnight as National Guard troops are ordered into the streets of Ferguson, Missouri.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POLICE: Disperse the area immediately!

COSTELLO (voice-over): Gunfire, tear gas, even Molotov cocktails light up the night sky. Several people hurt and days of protest plunge the city even closer to chaos. With Ferguson often resembling a combat zone, Missouri's governor has now deployed the National Guard to restore the peace.

The tensions seem to be only escalating after the family of Michael Brown released this preliminary results of this autopsy. It shows the unarmed African-American teenager was shot six times, including twice in the head, by the white police officer.

Brown's family due to speak in just about 30 minutes as both police and protesters, well, fear the violence will only get worse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were walking peacefully down to the mall and a young lady was hit in her face with smoke bombs and tear gas. And we were peaceful. This is unacceptable, and this is not the law. This is unacceptable. Until we get justice, we will not stop!

CAPT. RONALD S. JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: There were multiple reports of Molotov cocktails being thrown. Police were shot at. Makeshift barricades were set up to block police. Bottles and rockets were thrown at police. Based on these conditions, I had no alternative but to elevate the level of our response.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (on camera): All right. We want to begin our coverage with Don Lemon, who witnessed much of last night's violence unfold. And, Don, as I told our viewers, at about 10:30 Eastern Time, Michael Brown's family will hold that news conference. We're going to bring that to you live. We do expect the family to talk about the autopsy performed on their son by Dr. Michael Baden. And as I said, Dr. Baden found Brown was shot six times, all from the front, four times in the right arm, twice in the head. It did not appear any of the shots were fired at close range.

Don, are police talking at all about the investigation and whether they plan to file charges?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: They are not talking about that as of yet, but you know as we get new details coming in all the time, but I can tell you that they are saying that most of the shots were from the front, even the shots in the arm.

If you see the diagram or the photograph of where the shots were, and as of now, they are saying, you know, we shouldn't draw too much of a conclusion about where they entered and left because they are saying if the hands were up, possibly some of the wounds would have been to the inside of the arm and to the back.

And it doesn't appear that way if you are looking at the diagram. But these are just preliminary autopsy reports. There still has to be another autopsy done. They are going to be three. One was already done from the police and from the state.

The other one is the one that's done from the family. It's interesting here because of what happened last night at the confrontation with the police and the rowdy protesters. Not the peaceful ones. Police shot tear gas here.

Every single person here today is sneezing and scratching their nose cause of the amount of tear gas that was sprayed off here last night. I want to give you an idea of where we are and where the biggest commotion was last night. That's right here.

You see this canfield drive. That is the street where Michael Brown was walking when he had the confrontation with the police officer in the middle of the street. Right on the corner of West Florison Avenue and Canfield.

Just in front of me is that quick trip we had been reporting from. This is what people are doing. These are volunteers too. These people have been volunteering to come and clean up the city from some of the mess that's been made and also just on the scene here.

This is the presence that you'll see all day and then tonight when the curfew starts to go into effect and when sundown is about to happen, that's when you will see more of a presence and you see the officers there with those plastic restraints that we have seen so many of.

This is what they are using to bring people into custody and to try to get the rowdy protesters from acting up here, Carol. We'll be here all day for you.

COSTELLO: All right. We appreciate it. Don Lemon reporting live from Ferguson, Missouri.

Michael Brown's mother getting some support from State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson, who is heading up security in Ferguson at least right now. Lesley McSfadden spoke with ABC's "Good Morning America" just a short time ago. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: He had a heart felt message for me and it was that that could have been his son and he was sorry, and he's like everybody is supporting and hoping and praying that this doesn't happen again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can peace be restored, Ma'am?

MCSPADDEN: With justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is justice to you?

MCSPADDEN: Being fair. Arresting this man and making him accountable for his actions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And Leslie McSpadden will have a long day. She along with Michael Brown's father will speak out about this autopsy report, and just to let you know, the family was behind this autopsy report. They hired a doctor, a medical examiner, a very famous one to perform an autopsy.

He actually did it for free. We're going to talk about that a little later in the NEWSROOM and of course at 10:30 Eastern Time, we'll bring you that news conference live.

COSTELLO: Of course, all eyes on all Ferguson. The National Guard, state police, local police, the FBI, the justice department, the media, and now human rights watch. If you are not familiar with human rights watch, allow me to fill you in. It's an organization that defends the rights of people worldwide from Afghanistan to Sudan to Ferguson, Missouri.

With me now, the Maria McFarlan Sanchez-Moreno, the deputy U.S. program director of Human Rights Watch and Mel Robbins, our CNN legal analyst. Welcome to you both.

Maria, I want to start with you. So what will Human Rights Watch be doing in Ferguson?

MARIA MCFARLAND SANCHEZ-MORENO, DEPUTY U.S. PROGRAM DIR., HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: We're there to monitor what's happening on the ground. Obviously, we've been watching the criminal justice system in the U.S. for a very long time, issues involving race and policing.

What's happening in Ferguson right now really brings everything to the fjord. It's turned into the epicentre of a discussion around these issues. We're also concerned about the possibility that police might use excessive force.

Certainly some of the actions last week were intimidating, threatening toward protesters, with all the very heavy gear that the police had on the ground, and also the arrests of the journalists last week really brought out concerns about freedom of assembly and of the press. So we're there to watch what happens. We'll be watching very closely with how it works with the National Guard coming in, and hope that it works.

COSTELLO: Do you think it's a good thing that the National Guard is now being called in?

SANCHEZ-MORENO: It all depends on how they behave. If they are respectful of the right to assembly, if they use force only to the extent necessary and to the degree necessary to perform their duties, that's one thing. But we just don't know if that's what's going to happen.

COSTELLO: Mel, are you kind of relieved that the Missouri governor made the decision to call in the National Guard since state and local police have been helpless to enforce this curfew now in place?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: When they announced curfew for midnight, I actually was a little floored that they didn't announce it for a bit earlier, say 10:00, 11:00, given the mayhem. Our colleague has pointed out that there's two different groups in Ferguson right now.

A group of protesters who are exercising their right to assemble, are exercising their first amendment right to freedom of speech and they are doing so in honor of Michael Brown and in the name of justice.

And then there's a small outside group that's taking advantage of the chaos to loot, to create mayhem. So I think it's a very complicated situation where you've got residents of Ferguson who truly want justice.

Carol, and then you've got a bunch of people that are taking advantage of the situation and this is clearly well beyond the means of the Ferguson police department to maintain control in a way that's not only safe, but legal.

COSTELLO: We forget how tiny Ferguson actually is. They don't have a huge police force that's used to dealing with these kind of situations. I also wanted to ask you about the autopsy. There's going to be three autopsies performed on Michael Brown.

The first two have already been performed, right? The family backed one of them. Local authorities did the other. And the U.S. Justice Department will do the third. Three, necessary?

ROBBINS: Well, you know, let's take the question necessary from two different angles. Is it necessary from a perspective of keeping the public peace? Absolutely. I think the federal government, Eric Holder, President Obama, the Justice Department realize that things are on a very, very precarious point right now in Ferguson.

If they were to deny the family's request to do an autopsy that might tip things again toward violence and so I don't think the federal government had a choice. But here's a second piece to keep in mind. In addition to the local and state investigation internally with the police department and also whether or not they are going to indict this police officer under the criminal code in Missouri, you also have a parallel investigation.

Carol, going on by the Justice Department looking into whether or not Michael Brown's civil rights were violated, and primarily his right to life. His right to be free, you know, from seizure, which is the shooting.

And from search and so you are having the Justice Department do an independent investigation, which includes FBI on the ground going door to door and also doing an autopsy.

I want to point something else out, Carol. This is the first autopsy that we've heard any results from that was released today. It was done by -- the former chief medical examiner from New York City.

He's done over 20,000 autopsies. However, he did not have access to the clothes. He didn't have access to the x-rays. He didn't have access to the witness statements, and so we have to sit back and wait and see what the local autopsy says and certainly what the federal one does.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. We're going to talk more about that a little later in the NEWSROOM. Maria, in these cases does it help when the president steps up and talks to the public about it? In this case, President Obama?

SANCHEZ-MORENO: I think it's critical domestically to send a message that he recognizes the seriousness of people's concerns. I think people in Ferguson have very legitimate concerns about how the police is treating them, about this particular case, and they want to see an independent investigation. So I think it's appropriate that the federal government stepped in and that they are conducting their own investigation into what happened.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for being here. Marie McFarland Sanchez- Moreno and Mel Robbins. I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: All right, you see the podium all set up and ready to go in just about 20 minutes. Michael Brown's family will be behind that podium at St. Marks Church and will be talking this autopsy that they requested for their son. As soon as that news conference gets underway, of course, we'll take you to St. Marks Church live.

Also just a couple of minutes ago, Don Lemon pointed out that there were neighbors in Ferguson cleaning up the streets after another night of chaos in Ferguson, and we thought that was fabulous. So tell us more about that, Don.

LEMON: Absolutely, Carol. You know, we've seen so much bad behavior. I think it's important to acknowledge some of the good behavior and some of the good activities going on. Let's go over here and talk to these guys. Can you come in here for a second and talk to us? Not everybody is from here. Come on here. Where are you from?

ALLANDRE THOMAS, VOLUNTEER: I'm from Ferguson.

LEMON: What's your name?

THOMAS: My name is Allandre Thomas.

LEMON: Why did you come here? Why did you come to volunteer to do this?

THOMAS: I came in here because this is my neighborhood and I want it to be clean. I want the peace, and I don't want all of this havoc, the riots, the looting. I don't feel like it's necessary, so I want this to happen.

LEMON: What's your name, sir?

DAN JOHNSON, VOLUNTEER: Dan Johnson.

LEMON: Dan and you're not even from here. Where are you from?

JOHNSON: Bowling Green, Ohio.

LEMON: Why did you come?

JOHNSON: For two reasons, number one to help the community, to see what I could to help the community. Number two, it was unacceptable for the military police marching down that street. The military is looking at the citizens and treating them all like criminals, where there's a very small criminal element.

That's absolutely unacceptable in America to have either police looking like military or the military marching down our streets on American citizens. So I'm here to see if I can use a little bit of my organizing experience politically to help out the community, to take instructions from them, to see what I can do to help them.

LEMON: Reiterating what everyone has been saying here. This is a small group of people, who are really, you know, doing the looting and the unnecessary rioting. What do you think of that?

JOHNSON: Well, you look at the number of arrests. You've got seven arrests I believe last night and seven arrests the night before. A very small amount of arrests, very small number of people. The police should be out here dealing with that small criminal element. Protecting the businesses from the looting, but the rest of the peaceful protesters don't infringe on their first amendment right to assembly.

LEMON: Thank you very much for voicing that. Why are you here, Ma'am? What's your name first of all?

VICKY NELSON, VOLUNTEER: My name is Vicky Nelson. LEMON: Why did you come out to volunteer to do this?

NELSON: I came out to volunteer because I just wanted the neighborhood to be cleaned up and, you know, it's so much. I came over -- I've been actually every morning when I get off of work. I come by and some mornings it's just being stuff everywhere, trash cans full, stuff throw out around, so, you know, I just feel -- felt good just coming out, to help the community, to clean up.

LEMON: And we see so much bad on the news about everything, and this is -- you guys are doing something good. Did you want to change that of the city?

ERMA DUPREE, VOLUNTEER: Yes. I would like to make a change in the city. This is uncalled for, unnecessary. The family is calling for peace, and yet and still we know we could do this with peace, but you always going to have them that are determined to cause violence.

So we're just hoping that the majority of people will understand that the family of Mike Brown is really grieving and going through and we should try to give them as much peace as we can while we're going through this because through the grace of God they will succeed and survive in this.

And we should not let this be the part to where the world can see all the looting and destruction. We need to see the world -- the world seeing us coming together.

LEMON: Thank you very much. And look at these guys. These are the faces, the good faces that we should be paying attention to as well as -- as much -- at least as much we're paying to if not more the bad actors of people, small numbers of people who are wreaking so much havoc on this community.

I'm very glad that they talked to us and you came here. We had a chance to let them have their say on national television. Carol, back to you.

COSTELLO: Warms my art. Thanks, Don. I appreciate that. You see that picture in your corner. That's of course, Saint Mark's church in Ferguson. The family of Michael Brown expected to speak there in just about 20 minutes and they will talk about this autopsy they requested for their son.

As I said, we'll bring it to you live as soon as it happens. A little bit more about that autopsy and its findings. It indicates brown was shot at least six times. Two of the bullets apparently struck him in the head.

Forensic pathologist, Michael Baden did the autopsy. He's testified in a slew of high profile cases, including the murder trials of O.J. Simpson and Phil Spector. Alexandra Field has more for you.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Michael Brown's family has so many questions and they want an investigation that is separate from the states. So they brought in a big name here, Michael Baden and they believe that he's the one who can give them some credible answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): Seeking justice for their son, Michael Brown's family adds a high-profile expert to their team, forensic pathologist, Michael Baden.

ANTHONY GRAY, MICHAELY BROWN'S FAMILY ATTORNEY: We think we have one of the best in the world.

FIELD: Baden has brought his expertise to the stand in a number of closely watched cases. He famously testified in O.J. Simpson's murder trial. He was chairman of the committee of pathologists that investigated the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., now who investigate the police shooting of an unarmed teen.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Why? Because it ensures trust. Trust is a very important thing. The family wants to know what happened and why should they just rely on upon what the authorities tell them.

FIELD: Earlier this week, the St. Louis County Medical Examiner's Office determined the cause of death was gunshot wounds, but said, quote, "We are not specifying how many gunshot wounds at this point. The investigation into his death is still ongoing and the full autopsy is not likely to be released for many weeks because multiple law enforcement agencies are now involved in the investigation."

Mistrust between authorities and locals have exploded to the surface in Ferguson, Missouri, where Brown's death has sparked a week of protest, looting, a shooting, and sometimes violent responses from police.

In their search for answers, the Brown family has insisted on an autopsy from a federal medical examiner and the Browns will now rely on a separate investigation conducted by their own expert.

(on camera): What else will Michael Baden be looking at in this case?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, JOHN JAY COLLEGE: Well, Michael Baden is going to be asking a lot of questions not just about the autopsy, but about the gun. Is there only the police officer's DNA on the gun or if there was in fact a struggle? Is Michael Brown's DNA on that gun as well? That would certainly say a lot about whether the struggle for the gun took place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Three autopsies are being performed on Michael Brown's body. The one that was done by the local medical examiner, the one being done by the federal medical examiner and the one being done by Michael Baden.

Certainly there should be some consistencies between these reports, but everyone will be waiting to find out whether or not there are inconsistencies, areas that could be closely scrutinized might be the trajectory of the bullets or speculation about how far the shooter may have been from the victim -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Alexandra Field, thank you so much. The autopsy findings by Dr. Michael Baden are being called provocative by some. It's the first of three autopsies being done in this case. The findings from this particular autopsy indicate that one bullet, possibly the fatal one, entered the top of Brown's skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when he was hit or maybe he was lunging toward the officer. We just don't know.

I want to talk more about this and bring in CNN legal analyst, Mel Robbins. Also joining us is Dr. Bill Manion. He is the chairman of the Department of Pathology at Memorial Hospital in Burlington County, New Jersey, and the assistant medical examiner for Burlington County. Welcome to you both.

ROBBINS: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. Dr. Manion, I want to start with you. The preliminary autopsy requested by the family has now been released. What's your take on the findings that one of the bullets entered the top of Brown's skull?

DR. BILL MANION, CHIEF OF PATHOLOGY, MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: Well, I'll quote Dr. Baden on this. He said that either he was bent forward, falling down, or perhaps he could have been lunging forward or charging forward. All we can tell from an autopsy is the entrance wound, the exit wound, the trajectory, and the distance of the gun from the person.

So an autopsy is what it is and I think it's good that three autopsies are being done because the more heads you have on something like this, the more accurate your final result will be.

COSTELLO: Well, I'm just curious about that, Mel. Let's say the autopsy say different things. So which would be considered the accurate autopsy?

ROBBINS: Well, you know, what's interesting is of course having been a criminal defense attorney and a public defender, Carol, you automatically start thinking about autopsies or at least I do in the context of a court proceeding.

And to the extent that they are inconsistencies between the autopsies and that remains to be seen, as a defense attorney what you argue is that there's no certainty as to exactly what happened because the autopsies tend to conflict with one another.

Another thing to point out though, Carol, is that an autopsy in most cases tends to be tremendously credible evidence. It's scientific proof of what happened to the extent that you've got a very credible medical examiner and an autopsy that a jury can rely on.

And we've got a case here where there's a ton of eyewitnesses and the autopsy may in fact contradict what eyewitnesses are saying. So you know on one hand, it's terrific that we're going to have three autopsies because we should have some certainty if they are consistent.

But if they come back and they are inconsistent, I worry about the fact that we're going to have another situation on our hands where we have a case that has a ton of emotion, a dead teenager, and a very incomplete and unsatisfactory result.

COSTELLO: Yes, I hope that doesn't happen. Dr. Manion, another question for you about the specifics of this autopsy. Dr. Baden was not able to examine Michael Brown's clothes. He didn't have access to them. Why is that important?

MANION: Well, they will be looking for gunpowder residue on the clothing. A person can be shot and the gunpowder end up on the clothing, the bullet go through the clothing, of course, and hit the body and then when you look at the body itself, there's no gunpowder residue or stippling, burning from gunpowder. So that clothing will have to be examined by forensic technicians to see if there's gunpowder present there.

COSTELLO: And Mel, that's important because it's unclear whether Michael Brown was shot at close range or from further away.

ROBBINS: Correct. And it's also unclear, Carol, whether or not there was a struggle. I mean, what we're going to be seeing as information slowly comes out are facts that either go to a scenario where Michael Brown was in fact backing up with his hands up as some of the witnesses say or whether it's a scenario where the officer and Michael Brown were struggling kind of in the car.

And then there was some sort of confrontation that happened after that struggle and the distance is critical because if you have a struggle at a close range, now you are talking about the officer's state of mind, the officer perhaps feeling that he was threatened.

You are talking about the plausibility of whether or not Michael Brown was reaching for the gun, but if you have the shooting at a further distance, now you've got a scenario where, was this officer shooting this unarmed teenager in broad daylight eight feet away? I mean, they are two totally different stories.

COSTELLO: I'm just looking, Dr. Manion, at the shots in Michael Brown's arm. There are four of them. Can you determine --

MANION: That's correct.

COSTELLO: -- anything from that?

MANION: Well, I don't know if the officer thought Mr. Brown had something in his hand. Was he trying to shoot something out of his hand and shot his arm? But these four wounds in his arm, they are nonfatal wounds. He could have easily survived them, gotten to the hospital, and they would have fixed up those four wounds.

The fifth wound to the eye that entered the right eye socket, came down, exited the jaw and entered the right clavicle or collar bone, I believe that was also survivable, the fatal wound is the wound to the top of the skull that penetrated the skull and destroyed the brain. That's the fatal wound. No one would have survived that last wound.

COSTELLO: All right, Dr. Bill Manion. Mel Robbins, thanks so much. We're awaiting the press conference at Saint Mark's Church where the family of Michael Brown will come out and talk about this autopsy report. We'll be right back.

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