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Arrests In Ferguson Protests; Soon: Obama Speaks On Ferguson And Iraq

Aired August 18, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's going to make it worse. They're not giving people a chance to speak. You can't stand out here. Protests -- they snatch you and push you away or lock you up. It's not right.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: They're arresting people for disorderly conduct. Those people were arrested for disorderly conduct. They want people to keep moving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, sir. They were walking. Look at me. They were walking and being obedient.

LEMON: What do you have to say to the people who are causing violence and looting?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm speaking to their pain. Pain begets pain until it knows a better way.

LEMON: Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so this is their opportunity to let that pain erupt and what I say to them, I love you, I don't condone what you did. But I love you, and there is a better way. But we will not be treated like animals. We will not have our rights taken away from us.

LEMON: Reverend, as we look here -- they're coming, walking down here now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got arrested Wednesday and the tactics they use to make you resist arrest, I experienced that. So I know what they are about to do.

LEMON: But if they're moving --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they're moving, just like those two brothers were moving! I was alongside of them.

LEMON: The whole world is watching. What is it like here? Tell people what you're feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pain, anger, disenfranchisement and mistrust and manipulation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are telling you that we're not peacefully protesting and all that. And these people have been down here, they are being manipulated by the police and judicial system that says you can't do what you rightfully can.

Now you have to move, now you just -- they just don't want you out here protesting at all. And that speaks to what they want -- what it is -- how they value us initially.

LEMON: What would you have leaders do and law enforcement?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come out here and walk with them. Thursday, we had every hue, every socioeconomic class out here on Thursday. And I implore you to come back and walk as one, as we did on Thursday. We have policemen, we have Muslim. We have church of God and Christ.

We had Baptist, black, white, we had Indians. We need the coalition of humanity at this spot now! Wherever you are. Hit this spot now in solidarity and peace!

LEMON: There is a lot of pain here and obviously, the pain was here long before we came here. And what happened was the flashpoint.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. The flashpoint after Michael was shot, the fact that they would not answer our questions. The reason why this generation is hurting because no one will answer their questions honestly.

LEMON: I've seen you out here every day. I've seen you out here every day. Very recognizable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I would like to say is, if you don't wake up and realize what's going on out here today, it's going to be way more bloodshed than just Michael Brown. And then what will you say then? Because these people are not armed. These people are not the military. These people are not part of the police department.

LEMON: What do you mean by no justice, no peace?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't have -- they have not locked that man up yet. It doesn't make sense. If it wasn't a white man, he would have been locked up a long time ago, long time ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Standing out here with illegal weaponry in front of the police officer and the viewing public.

LEMON: Someone says -- he would say he has to protect his property. What do you say?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? The whole thing is, like he said, he called the police officer himself. He said he called. They didn't come to him. So you're right. You're saying that.

But what do -- how are the police doing their job with rallying and roughing us up out here and not doing what they should be doing? I'm not saying if you are committing a crime you should not be properly, you know --

LEMON: Dealt with. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly. But you are too busy over here roughing up the peaceful protesters, smoke, bombing, tear gassing, women and children. Meanwhile --

LEMON: The officers are to your right. You have been very upset by this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a 14-year-old son. I have to tell my son every day since this has happened, be careful. When you walk out of the streets, be careful. Don't walk in groups. Walk by yourself.

Yesterday, an officer approached my son. And told him, "what is your name, how old are you, what is your address." He said he just walked away and put his hands up. It's crazy. It's not just Ferguson. It's going on around everywhere. It's crazy out here.

LEMON: We're on live so what do you -- you're in this community. How do you feel about it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How I feel about it, the law just doesn't apply to us. Rules just don't apply to us. So if they break a rule or they go against the law, they should get the same treatment as we do.

LEMON: What do you mean, "they," white people, officers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's deeper than white and black. It's the people that are in a so-called higher power and the people that should protect and serve. And they are out here doing more damage than we're doing to ourselves. And now they're reunited.

They're trying to tell us to keep moving. I never heard a protester that had to stand still. Now we've got to keep moving. Come on, man. Now they're putting a limit on where we've got to go in the house -- they can have a reason to touch the protesters.

LEMON: Will Ferguson ever be the same? Will this community ever be the same after this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely not. This is history, man. We're going to get stronger and that's what they don't want. You see they're out here like we're doing something. We're not doing anything. This is the first time you actually have seen a big group of people without any damage getting done. Come on, man. It's deep.

LEMON: When you see the officers like this and people telling you, lined up -- you see the restraints and what have you, what does that feel like?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels like it's something deeper than what everybody knows. It's deeper than what everybody knows, man. It really is. It's way deeper than what anybody knows.

LEMON: Tell me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as, like -- the reason why they're out here, the reason why they're doing this or what it feels like to even have to go through this, it feels like -- it's feeling like time is repeating itself. Time repeats itself.

LEMON: Like you're going back in time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's are repeating itself, all over.

LEMON: Thank you for telling me your story. Thank you for sharing. So that's the situation every moment. It's like -- it's like a tinder box. Any moment, any one moment can ignite into something you don't know what it's going to be, Brooke.

And there you have it. You hear the accounts, you hear people still upset by it. And, again, these people, they say they feel like they're under occupation and they just want to be able to protest in their own community.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It's like a freeze frame of what is happening and a microcosm not just in Ferguson, but how a lot of people are feeling nationwide. I have the perfect guest lined up. Don, thank you so much. And thank all those people for us for voicing their opinions.

Just talking about what we saw and heard in Ferguson. Leonard Pitts, he is a "Miami Herald" columnist, wrote this op-ed and this is the reason why we wanted to talk to you, sir. Can you react to what that young man said? I wrote it down.

He said what's happening in Ferguson is way bigger than white and black. He said it's about power, it's about authority. Do you think he's right?

LEONARD PITTS, "MIAMI HERALD" COLUMNIST: He's exactly right. White and black sometimes are, you know, stand-ins for power and authority. But this is about white and black, but it's also about class divisions. It's about the things that we impose upon those who are more vulnerable, whether because of race, whether because of class, whether because of both.

So, you know, the same things that we're seeing here we see perhaps in a slightly different flavor. But you'll see the same complaints, I would be willing to wager in lower-income and more neglected majority white communities, majority Hispanic communities, majority Native American.

BALDWIN: You write about the anger, you write about the screaming, the proverbial screaming. And you quote -- we've all heard, you know, these people are -- they're sick and tired of being sick and tired. I think I know what you mean. Just to a degree, but in your own words, what are people sick and tired of?

PITTS: Well, I'll put it to you like this. If Michael Brown was the first African-American young man, say, in the last five or ten years to have had this experience, you would not see the kind of anger or the kind of eruption you're seeing now in the streets of Ferguson.

The fact of the matter is, you have to look at it in context. Michael Brown is part of a continuum of young African-American men who have been shot and killed under dubious circumstances or mistreated under dubious circumstances in this country.

And then you combine that with all of the stories that you don't hear. That perhaps are not the -- the encounters are not fatal, but degrading to your humanity, degrading to your spirit, that are violations, perhaps, of your civil rights or human rights that go on all of the time, but are under cover.

You combine all of that, and you get this toxic stew. That's what we're seeing, you know, here in Ferguson. People are -- people are not just fed up over Michael Brown. People are fed up over all of the things that have led up to Michael Brown.

BALDWIN: Toxic stew that is boiling over at the moment in Ferguson.

PITTS: Yes.

BALDWIN: And I notice something, you write about this, and quote, this bitter sense of siege that lives in African-American men.

PITTS: Yes.

BALDWIN: Do you feel that way?

PITTS: Yes. I feel that way. I think every African-American man has felt that way at some point or another. For me, it's probably a little bit different than it is for a lot of other people, because of what I do for a living. I write a newspaper column.

So it's less a thing of, you know, being stopped by police, although I certainly have had that happen, than it is for me, trying to reason with people only to discover that people are in a mood to be reasoned with on issues of race.

For me it's talking about a Michael Brown and getting back a reader comment that the young man got what he deserved or some other young man was killed without apparent reason or without apparent provocation, got what he deserved.

That's sort of the state we seem to be in as a nation right now, where this kind of rabid hatred is enjoying a kind of resurgence and frankly a kind of intellectual cover that it has not had since probably the 1960s.

BALDWIN: Reading so much just recently about Watts and incidence incidents of that time in the '60s and how people are saying it's a flash back and some are saying it seems even worse. Leonard Pitts, thank you for coming on. We'll push people to your columns in the "Miami Herald." Thank you so much for coming on.

We have also heard that the president of the United States will be speaking live in about 20 minutes from now on the escalating situation in Ferguson. He'll talk about Ferguson and also talk about Iraq happening at 4:00 Eastern Time.

There are a number of African-Americans, though, that are blasting the president for not mentioning race specifically in his remarks last week. Will he do so today moments from now? We'll discuss that. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Today was supposed to be the start of a brand-new school year, but for the second time in a week, schools in Ferguson, Missouri, are closed. Students are not in the classroom after these violent protests encompass their community for yet another night.

So Jana Shortt, let me bring you in, the director of communications and marketing for the Ferguson Florissant School District. And Jana, just begin with explaining the decision process, why keep the schools closed?

JANA SHORTT, FERGUSON-FLORISSANT SCHOOL DISTRICT: Well, as long as we have continued unrest in the community and, you know, we're always thinking about the safety of students, the safety of students getting to and from school. So we have issues of debris on the roads.

So as a student would come and wait at a bus stop or walk to school, they would be encountering that, as well as road closures, access issues and things like that. All of which made the decision for us very clear, that we would need to keep school closed again today.

BALDWIN: So who knows how long this investigation lasts. Who knows how long you have protesters in your community. How long are you willing to keep those schools closed?

SHORTT: Well, we're hoping that just to have some greater stability in the community, this conversation and what the community needs to work through is going to be a very long process. And we understand that. We also understand that our role as educators can really be a big help in that process.

So we're ready for that. But we need to first have our streets and our community safe to get our kids into school. And so we're hopeful, we're relying on the work that others in our community are doing to hopefully bring that stability, and then we look forward to starting school as soon as possible.

BALDWIN: Just thinking about these young people and how they're taking in everything happening in their community, certainly not far from mine. Jana Shortt, thank you so much from Ferguson. We'll stay in close contact and see when those schools do open up.

Coming up next is the president of the United States gets ready to speak live on the situation in Ferguson. That happens at the top of the hour there at the White House. A number of African-Americans in this country, they're criticizing him for not mentioning race in his public comments last week.

Will he today? Should he today? Again, that happening 15 minutes from now there at the White House. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We are just about 10 minutes away from seeing the president of the United States step behind the podium at the White House and address the nation on two subjects, one Iraq, two Ferguson.

This be the second time we've seen the president publicly address the nation on the escalating situation in Ferguson, Missouri. Let's begin there with political commentator and op-ed columnist for the "New York Times" Charles Blow and Larry Elder, radio host and author.

As we wait for the president, Larry, my first one is to you. Talking to Marc Lamont Hill, who is actually now in Ferguson and he has not minced words in terms of criticism toward the president that I hear you.

But last week, he said the president did not mention what happened in Ferguson. He didn't mention race specifically. He says that was a mistake. Do you think it was a mistake? Should he mention race in 10 minutes?

LARRY ELDER, HOST, "THE LARRY ELDER SHOW": I think that President Obama has mentioned race improperly many times during the course of his presidency. One of the first things he said was criticized the Cambridge Police Department and said they acted stupidly.

He injected himself in the Trayvon Martin case and said if I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon. The fact of the matter is there were 14,000 homicides last year, about half of them were committed by black people almost always against another black person.

In Chicago alone, ten homicides a week, almost always against another black person. The majority are unsolved. I would like to see as much attention paid to the murder of the girl who performed at his inauguration as the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson. This is a national epidemic.

BALDWIN: Should he be specific on race?

ELDER: Obama has said that the number one problem is not having fathers. If you don't have a father in the home, Obama said, when he gave a talk before a historical black college, you're nine times more likely to drop out of school, 20 times more likely to go to jail.

Now if 75 percent of the kids are raise the without fathers and 20 times more likely to go to jail that's a far bigger problem than unarmed black people being killed by police. I'm not saying we ignore it, but for crying out loud, let's have some perspective.

BALDWIN: For crying out loud, Charles Blow, do you agree?

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITIAL COMMENTATOR: I can't -- there's so many factual problems with what was just said, including what we.

ELDER: Name one.

BLOW: The fault position. I will. I let you speak and you will let me speak. Number one is you say that 75 percent of African-American children are raised without fathers. Because someone is born to a single mother does not mean that that father does not engage with that child.

ELDER: I didn't say that.

BLOW: Yes, you did say that. You said they were raised without fathers. You said that. The other thing that's a problem.

ELDER: It's nitpicking, Charles.

BALDWIN: Hang on, Larry.

BLOW: This is the problem, right? And the other problem with that is that you act as if those women never want to be married or do marry during the course of that child's being raised.

If you say a person is raised without a father, that is factually inaccurate to say 75 percent of African-American children are raised without a father. That is the myth of the absent black father.

Let's start with that. But the bigger point I think the point you were getting at was whether or not the president should have dealt with race specific.

BALDWIN: That's what Marc Lamont Hill says. Do you agree?

BLOW: He has in fact -- including the idea of my brother's keeper and trying to specifically deal with issues that are affecting African- American youth.

ELDER: May I say something.

BLOW: You can say something when I'm finished like I let you finish when you were speaking, right?

ELDER: I'm not your enemy, Charles. I'm not your enemy.

BLOW: I didn't ask you to be my enemy, don't be rude either. We can disagree. Black people is a varied group of people. We all have different opinions. You can have yours, and I respect the fact that you have a different opinion.

Respect the fact that I have a different opinion. I also want to say I respect the idea that this president is trying to specifically address African-American youth.

BALDWIN: How does he do it in 10 minutes though? You mentioned my brother's keeper. Give us one second, Larry. Just finish your thought, Charles.

BLOW: I don't know if he necessarily does it in 10 minutes. I think every time you actually acknowledge that there is an issue, which he has been trying to do and when you acknowledge that there is a pain, that there is a kind of a historical scar. And you try to figure how do we unwind and heal that scarring

and how do we unwind and heal what is affecting people both on an interpersonal level, but also on a societal systemic level, that you are stepping one step closer to do that.

He cannot erase the damage done by 400 years of oppression. He can acknowledge that oppression was real and that we have to do something about it.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Larry.

ELDER: I'd like to say a couple things. First of all, I think we do a disservice to the people that fought hard and died in order for us to get where we are today to act as if nothing has changed in America.

We have a black president who has been re-elected. We have a black attorney general, who's shown no reluctant to sue in the basis of a civil rights violation.

We're doing people a disservice by acting like this is your grandfather's America. It is not. Secondly, I live in Compton, a suburb of Los Angeles that used to be almost black. It is now almost all Latino. The people that run the city are still almost all black.

If you ask them, they'll say what are you saying? Should I resign because my constituents have gone from black to Latino? I can't fix a street because my constituents are Latino? That's racist.

It's not fair to assume whatever happened between Michael Brown and Officer Wilson happened because of racial animus. Maybe Michael -- Wilson made mistakes. Maybe he just blew it. I don't know.

But let's not assume right away that because one officer is white, one person with whom he has an altercation is black, ergo racial motivation. Not fair.

BALDWIN: Larry, I don't know if you read the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar piece in "Time" magazine, but he makes the point and I just heard a young man speaking to Don Lemon in Ferguson sort of saying the same thing that this is not a black and white issue at least talking about what happened in Ferguson. And maybe the bigger picture he said this is not only a class issue, it is a power authority issue. And that is the problem.

ELDER: Well, it's also as issue of representation. I hear people talk about how the Ferguson Police Department does not represent the city. So what? Are you saying because the city has a certain racial composition, you therefore can't represent the people?

If that's the argument, the logical extension is Obama should never be president because black people are just 13 percent of the country. That's ridiculous. Martin Luther King told us to try to evaluate people on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. I think we're going backward.

BALDWIN: Let me just hit pause on this. I understand Captain Ron Johnson has become the face of the security measures happening. He's charged with security in Ferguson and he's speak now. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: Tonight, we will ensure the safety of the citizens of Ferguson, the visitors to Ferguson, and the businesses of Ferguson. We will also ensure that peaceful protests will be allowed in the city of Ferguson.

We will not allow vandals, criminal elements, to impact the safety and security of this community. We will not allow those elements to disrupt or impact the soul of this community. We will insure that the rights and the freedoms that this nation provides us will allow for protests.

We will go back and work on a plan to ensure that. Now I'm going to introduce General Greg Mason of the Missouri National Guard.

GENERAL GREG MASON, MISSOURI NATIONAL GUARD: Good afternoon. As Captain Johnson said I'm General Greg Mason with the Missouri National Guard. I'm here to oversee the Missouri National Guard response. We have well trained and well-seasoned soldiers that will be assigned to protect the joint command headquarters here.

Our soldiers have been well trained and overseen many missions of state response over the years and well equipped to handle this mission and well resourced. Again, thank you very much.

BALDWIN: OK, so that was Captain Ron Johnson in charge of security there basically calling for peace. There is no curfew tonight. The National Guard rolled in. That was his plea to the people. You're allowed to protest, do so peacefully. In the 60 seconds remaining, final thoughts, briefly, gentlemen. Larry, go ahead.

ELDER: During the O.J. Simpson case, the head of the police chief was black. He did a full study to find out if anybody altered evidence during the case. Those who believe Simpson was a victim of a conspiracy still believed. It didn't matter.

BALDWIN: Charles?

BLOW: Right, I don't think that it's smart to discount race completely because we don't know the whether or not it plays into this particular case. However, on the DOJ's point of view, which is civil rights violation, race does have to matter.

You have to justify that you did not exceed the force that was necessary in the particular case in the firing of each one of those bullets. If he cannot justify the firing of each one of those bullets, then you can't have a case of civil rights violations. I think that is important to always keep in mind.

BALDWIN: Charles Blow, Larry Elder.

ELDER: Based on what I know so far. BALDWIN: That's it. Jake Tapper is live in Ferguson. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for watching. "THE LEAD" starts now.