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Grand Jury May Convene Today; ISIS Beheads American; Ferguson Mayor Claims City Does Not Have Racial Divide; Changes in Race and Poverty Have Occurred in Ferguson

Aired August 20, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICHARD WEINBLATT, FORMER POLICE CHIEF: Well, I am sure that the Justice Department is involved in those security and safety procedures. I'm sure Captain Johnson and the Missouri State Highway Patrol is involved in that. They're going to do every precaution they can to protect him.

And let's be honest, even when we have people that are labeled as defendants, which he is not yet, but even when we have people labeled as defendants, law enforcement goes at great lengths putting bulletproof vests on them, et cetera, transporting them by various routes, in dark vans. They do all sorts of things. I mean look at all the protection they did for Casey Anthony when Casey Anthony was released from jail in Orange County, Florida. So they're going to take all the steps they can to protect Darren Wilson, as they would protect anybody. And they should.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: There are plenty of people who are rallying behind Officer Wilson. I want to read you part of an op-ed that was written by an officer at the Los Angeles Police Department. It was in "The Washington Post" this morning. Quote, "even though it might sound harsh and inpolitic, here is the bottom line, if you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don't argue with me. Don't call me names. Don't tell me that I can't stop you. Don't say I'm a racist pig. Don't threaten that you'll sue me and take away my badge. Don't scream at me that you pay my salary and don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes." In other words, this officer says, if you do these things, you can expect to be shot. Is that how most police officers feel?

WEINBLATT: Well, I don't think that he's saying that you can expect to be shot, but you can expect that it's not going to go so smoothly, all right. I used to have people confront me all the time and that's why I was (INAUDIBLE) I pay your salary and all that. I heard all that a million times and -- when I was in uniform. And what I used to say to people is, look, I'd be glad to debate this with you but under our system the way to debate it is in a court of law, not on the side of the highway where I'm exposed to cars whizzing by at 70 miles an hour that could hit me. And we all see the videos on YouTube of officers getting hit by cars.

So it's a dangerous job, whether it be from the people we're confronting or the cars going by or all sorts of things. It is not the time to debate it there. If you want to file an internal affairs complaint, you file that. If you want to go to the justice department, you go do that. If you want to file a lawsuit, you can do that. Officers are sued all the time. That's the way that grievances are normally handled in our democratic society.

And you run for office and you vote for people that you want to have in office to reflect your views and reflect your community. But you don't confront officers, certainly physically, in the street. Now, I don't know if that's what happened in this case. That's what we're hopefully going to find out if we have a fair and impartial process.

COSTELLO: I would posture, though, that one of the duties of the police officer would be to calm down the situation.

WEINBLATT: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Our job is to deescalate.

CUOMO: That would be the first task, right, to deescalate?

WEINBLATT: Absolutely. And officers do it every day. I mean people point to incidents that happen, but what I also say to people is, we don't hear about all the incidents and I know I personally had tons of them where I was in uniform where I would calm people down and there was no camera there, there was no news media, there was no social blogging saying, wow, what a great job this deputy sheriff or this officer did at the time. It just happens and so there are -- when you consider how many interactions law enforcement has, and the ones that make it into the big spotlight are really, really small.

It's not to say that things don't go wrong. They do. And it's not to say there aren't bad officers and racist officers. There are. But it is the exception, not the rule, and we need to let the process work itself. I take exception what the governor said when he said vigorous prosecution. It should be vigorous investigation, not a vigorous prosecution. There you've already passed judgment. Let's let the chips fall where they may. And if Officer Wilson was wrong, so be it. But if Mr. Brown was wrong, so be it.

COSTELLO: Well, we'll see what the grand jury decides. Richard Weinblatt, thanks as usual.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are following the horrific developments in the fight against ISIS. International outrage over the brutal beheading of American journalist James Foley. He was kidnapped by ISIS in Syria back in 2012. Well, the terrorist group has released a video showing what appears to be Foley's brutal execution. The video was so gruesome, we can only show you these still images. ISIS says the killing is payback for U.S. airstrikes in Iraq and ISIS is also threatening to kill a second American journalist seen here if U.S. military action in Iraq continues. CNN's Athena Jones is in Washington. She has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Freelance journalist James Foley has been killed by members of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS. Foley disappeared in northwest Syria on Thanksgiving Day 2012. Weeks later, his parents held a press conference outside their New Hampshire home, pleading to his captors to release him.

JOHN FOLEY, FATHER: As Jim's father, I appeal to the people who have Jim. To let us know where he is and to help us secure his release and to give us some information in terms of his welfare, his health.

JONES: Foley had spent the previous five years reporting independently from the Middle East. He faced danger in the past, kidnapped, along with several others, by Gadhafi loyalists in Libya in 2011. He in a cell in Tripoli, he was repeatedly interrogated as war raged around them. After 44 day, Foley was released and brought to this hotel where other western journalists were staying.

JAMES FOLEY, JOURNALIST: Especially towards the end we started to hear the bombs coming closer and more frequently.

JONES: He continued reporting in the region until he was captured again. Foley was working on several stories when he was abducted, including one on the destruction of the ancient city of Aleppo, according to his brother, Michael Foley. The oldest of five children, Foley was 40 years old. His family says before becoming a journalist, Foley worked with the disadvantaged, as a teacher and mentor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right, let's talk more about this with CNN's Athena Jones in Washington and White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski, who's in Martha's Vineyard with the president.

Athena, I want to start with you.

First of all, it was so touching and amazing what Foley's mother said, that she was never more proud of her son.

JONES: It was, and, you know, Foley is being remembered as someone who was funny, who was warm. One of his friends described him as a "Big Lebowski" type of guy. And he was aware of the risk covering war zones, but his work covering war was important to him. In fact, after he was captured for that first time and released in Libya, he told "The Boston Globe," "I believe that front line journalism is important. Without these photos and videos and firsthand experience, we can't really tell the world how bad it might be."

Carol.

COSTELLO: He was kidnapped back in 2012. Was anyone looking for him?

JONES: Well, certainly his family was looking for him, the organizations, the U.S. government was aware. You saw that FBI notice posted. So people were aware, but he was unfindable. He hadn't been seen since being kidnapped while reporting in the northwestern part of Syria now nearly two years ago. And, of course, even now we don't know when that video, that horrific video of his beheading, was taped or filmed. We don't know when that happened. All we know is that he's been missing since Thanksgiving of 2012.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Michelle, does the president plan to say anything at some point today about this?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We expect to hear something from the White House. I mean the White House isn't telling us exactly what the schedule is, what we're expecting to hear at this point. I mean we generally don't know too much ahead of time when something is planned.

But we've already heard from the president's national security team on this. They put out that statement that you've probably seen now saying that they're appalled by this apparent brutal murder of an innocent American journalist. So that's their statement. But we do expect to hear something directly from the White House on this. I mean, keep in mind, as the U.S. government and the airstrikes had made gains over the last week, we heard from the president now three times make statements on what's going on in Iraq, what the president plans to do, what U.S. involvement exactly will entail. So I think it stands to reason that now that this has happened and, I mean, these terrorists have put the onus on the president of the United States, obviously the president doesn't want to directly respond to them or to that via the media, but I think the White House will release some kind of statement. Obviously it needs to be carefully crafted. Such a tricky, difficult and you could say brutal situation for all involved.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Athena Jones, Michelle Kosinski, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, seeds sown long before the shooting death of Michael Brown, Ferguson has undergone a lot of changes. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Happily, things were relatively calm in Ferguson, Missouri, last night. No tear gas fired, but 50 people were placed under arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Mainly because the crowds were smaller and police say they were able to arrest those coming into town to make trouble. That's the better news. The even better news is that people are talking about the larger issue surrounding this tragedy, and I'll expound on one of them.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO (on camera): As you know, there's been a significant population shift in Ferguson over the last 30 years or so. With that change, many residents say the people in charge don't look like them, and those residents also say opportunities are no longer there. CNN's Tom Foreman joins us with more talk about this. Good morning, Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. And you know, It's not just Ferguson. This sort of thing has been happening in communities all over the country, where what you end up with is circumstances that are ripe for social unrest based upon some event that may happen out there, so that you have people who just are upset about many issues. The reason? Because there are more people who have been struggling here for quite some time and have upset about a lot of things. Let's look at the numbers here and talk about why that's the case. This is a map of the area from 2000 and the poverty rates, the darker, more intense colors here is where there is more poverty. That was 2000.

Look at the same map if we move forward, Carol, to now, and look at how many places are in much deeper poverty. So much so that the poverty rate in Ferguson doubled in that period of time, and some families now there are actually living on about $63 a day for a family of four. That's a reason for people to feel a lot of stress. They have less health care, they have less access to education, less access to jobs.

At the same time, look what happened to the racial makeup there. Back in 1980, 85 percent of Ferguson was white. Jump forward to today, dramatic change, now 67 percent of the population there is black, and these African-Americans are disproportionately being hit by that poverty we mentioned a moment ago. And now we bring in that last factor, you just brought up, Carol. If you look at the police force there, 53 officers on the police force. If it perfectly mirrored the community, and it doesn't, probably in most places, but if it did perfectly mirror the community this is what you would have. That many officers, around 35 of them, 36, something like that, would be African-American. In reality, this is what you have, only three of them. Much more fitting in terms of the proportion of the police department to what they would have had back when the population was overwhelmingly white there. It's a very different force than the community may be looking for.

Carol, as you know, that doesn't necessarily mean they have to have huge problems. People can work around these things, but it certainly makes it easy at times like this for people to feel distance, to feel like they're not understood and to make things worse. This is the real story of Ferguson right now. The shooting is important, the shooting matters, but this issue resonates far beyond that town, Carol.

COSTELLO: Food for thought, Tom Foreman, many thanks to you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Amid protests, tear gas and the National Guard, residents of Ferguson are seeking answers, but one key question looms, and it's an important one. Who's really in charge here, and are they equipped to provide those answers? (END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: It is stressful right now. I'm not at work because of all this stuff going on, I'm just ready to go back to work and be normal.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO: She's ready to go back to normal. Just one Ferguson resident who says she's looking ahead to when things get back to normal, and observers say some critical issues, among them the issue of race, must be addressed before that can actually happen. But there are those in Ferguson who do not believe there is a racial divide or race problem, including the city's mayor.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JAMES KNOWLES, MAYOR OF FERGUSON: There's not a racial divide in the city of Ferguson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to whom? Is that your perspective or do you believe that that the perspective of African-Americans in your community?

KNOWLES: That is the perspective of all residents in our city. Absolutely.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO: That comment, no doubt, caused many African-Americans to say, Mr. Mayor, what planet are you living on? Tony Messenger is the editorial page editor for the "St. Louis Post-Dispatch." Good morning, Tony.

TONY MESSENGER, "ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH": Good morning. Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. So, in your mind, is there a racial divide in Ferguson?

MESSENGER: Well, my perspective is a little broader than that. I think it's important for us to look at, not just Ferguson, but the St. Louis regional community. Ferguson is just one of 90 municipalities in St. Louis County and, as you've noticed in the coverage, a lot of the people coming to protest aren't just from Ferguson, they are from all of the surrounding communities and the city of St. Louis. I believe we have a racial problem in this larger community, whether or not there's one specifically in Ferguson. I understand the mayor protecting his town's image.

COSTELLO: Now, wait a second. Why do you understand the mayor? Why would he say such a thing? Because he seems myopic. MESSENGER: I think he's wrong, but I understand the nature of mayors

and town leaders when, all of a sudden, their town is known by a hashtag and the entire world is watching. They're defensive, but he's wrong. There's a racial problem in Ferguson, in Dellwood, in Cool Valley, in Kinloch, in St. Louis. There is a racial problem in our community, and that's been sort of the focus of our coverage because that's part of the underlying cause along with what your previous guest was talking about, the incredible concentrated poverty we have in some pockets of North St. Louis county.

COSTELLO: When the mayor says such a thing and then other politicians say different things, you have a whole bunch of people in charge saying different things, and there's a danger in that, right? Shouldn't your leaders be speaking in one voice?

MESSENGER: They should, but this is part of the problem that we have. This is part of the larger story. There is not one voice in St. Louis. It is a very fractionalized and divided community because of all of these municipalities, all of these government boundaries. I'll give you a great example, and this is one of the things that we've called for in editorials is some strong leadership to stand up. Yesterday, one of my colleagues interviewed Governor Jay Nixon who said it's up to county prosecutor Bob McCulloch to decide whether or not he recuses himself. This morning, Bob McCulloch went on local radio and said Jay Nixon isn't say anything. It's up to him. And so, there is a tremendous lack of strong leadership in the government community. There's also a desire in the black community for there to be some leadership on the ground as it relates to the protests, which are also very divided. A lot of different factions of different people protesting for different reasons. And that's why it's such a tinder box right now.

COSTELLO: Who needs to be that strong voice then? Is there anyone in the St. Louis area who can provide that?

MESSENGER: I'm not sure that there is somebody in the St. Louis area who has the gravitas in both the white and the black community to strand up and be that leader. I think our governor has not had a strong performance and doesn't have a great reputation in the black community as it is, whether or not that's well deserved or not. That's part of the problem. We have Attorney General Eric Holder coming to town today and one of the things that we've wondered on the editorial page is whether or not that leader to bring our community together might be somebody outside of our community, might be somebody like an Eric Holder, like a President Barack Obama. There's a group of African-American activists who have asked Martin Luther King III to come to town and organize some civil disobedience. This situation might need a leader that is bigger than St. Louis to bring us all together.

COSTELLO: Tony Messenger with the "St. Louis Post-Dispatch." Thank you so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

MESSENGER: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)