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U.S. Embassy in Libya Overrun; Small Victory in Amreli; What to Do with ALS Fund
Aired August 31, 2014 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. These are the stories that are topping our news this hour.
The unoccupied U.S. embassy in Libya appears to have been overrun by members of an islamist militia. Amateur video shows what appears to be militia members on embassy grounds even diving off the roof into the swimming pool. U.S. diplomats evacuated the embassy last month. No comment yet from the U.S. State Department.
In Ukraine, full-scale war with Russia is inching closer to reality just as a U.S. lawmaker is calling for the arming of Ukrainian forces along the nation's eastern border. Russian President Vladimir Putin is calling for talks that include the issue of statehood in eastern Ukraine. NATO is meeting this week in Wales to try to decide how to respond to the crisis.
And in Iraq, a significant victory in the push to defeat ISIS militants. Iraqi military forces broke a two-month siege to retake the town of Amreli. Tens of thousands of people were facing drastic food shortages. The breakthrough came after U.S. air strikes and humanitarian aid drops in the area.
More now on a troubling situation in Libya. And the amateur video that appears to show islamist militia members on the grounds of the U.S. embassy compound in Tripoli. The fighters can even be seen right there jumping into the swimming pool. U.S. ambassador Deborah Jones, who is not in Libya right now, says the video shows the embassy's residential annex but not the embassy offices itself.
In her words, "the compound is now being safeguarded and has not been ransacked." And despite those video images, a spokesman for the Libyan Dawn militia tells CNN that his group is there to protect the embassy. He calls the actions by some of the militia members, "isolated behavior."
Rival militias have been fighting for control of Libya since the demise of Moammar Gadhafi back in 2011. Just over a month ago, the violent chaos forced U.S. diplomats to close the embassy and leave the country. Former CIA operative Bob Baer joins me now. So Bob, how would you describe the situation in Libya right now?
BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, Libyan Dawn is another name for islamic fundamentalists, they're not quite as bad as ISIS but they're not our friends. To say that the embassy hasn't been ransacked doesn't tell the full story. The full story is that Tripoli, the capital of Libya has fallen to islamic groups. They are controlling large parts of it. They're post law and order. They're the accepted authority.
I would very much be surprised if the Libyan government comes back and retakes that city. So you - just like we lost Mosul, we've lost Tripoli now. What they do, the embassy's sort of irrelevant but it's symbolic of the spread of talk fury (ph), what I call talk fury (ph) Islam.
WHITFIELD: So what would be the objective of Libyan Dawn?
BAER: They want to impose Sharia law, they want to take control of Libya, presumably want to unite with the islamic fundamentalists in Benghazi and they're fighting for that city as well. And turn Libya into an islamic state which would not look like anything like Gadhafi's state. It would - the seculars have been beat and beaten roundly.
WHITFIELD: And then how would this pose a threat to the region?
BAER: Well, it's an enormous threat. I mean, the reason that Egypt is bombing Tripoli airport from time to time is because of this threat. Because they consider a threat to Egyptian stability and the United Arab Emirates has been participating in the bombing as well but turning these people back from the air is not going to do. They are well grounded and they have a certain popularity. This is not a cult. They are supported by large numbers of people and I think we have to accept this and learn how to deal with it.
WHITFIELD: And what is the possibility or the potential future for a Libyan government to be able to take control of that country, given right now it is so incredibly porous?
BAER: Right now, Fredricka, I think it's impossible. I mean things change very quickly in that part of the world. But to turn this around, I just don't see it happening. (INAUDIBLE) Haftar, the secularist with an army, has not been taken ground, he's getting beaten in Benghazi today. I don't see this turn around any time soon. We'll just have to wait for this to take its course which may not be - you know, the country's full armed. A lot of these arms are being shipped to islamic groups in sub-Saharan Africa like Mali and Nigeria. So this could spread the chaos.
WHITFIELD: Bob Baer, all right. Thanks so much.
Right now, to Iraq, we're seeing progress in the push to defeat ISIS militants. The U.S. military conducted fresh air strikes to help Iraqi forces break a brutal ISIS siege in the town of Amreli. You're looking at video of relieved families on Iraqi helicopters, one official even saying people of Amreli were facing imminent massacre before this stunning turnaround.
Some endured weeks of severe food and water shortages but as the people of Amreli celebrate victory, other Iraqi families are mourning. Iraqi police tell Reuters a suicide bomber killed 37 people in Ramadi by ramming an explosives-filled vehicle into a construction site used by local military and police. And we don't yet know who is responsible for the reported bombing. But ISIS militants have been battling Iraqi security forces in the area.
I want to bring in our panel to talk more about the push to defeat ISIS in Iraq. We got correspondent, Anna Coren in Erbil, Iraq, along with independent foreign correspondent and "Daily Beast" contributor Jamie Dettmer in Maryland. Anna, the situation in Amreli is becoming desperate, at least it was before this latest turnaround. Does this victory in that town show what's possible when U.S. air strikes help embolden Iraqi troops?
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, most definitely, Fredricka, it just goes to show what a coordinated effort can achieve. Those U.S. air strikes turning the situation around certainly on the ground for those Iraqi forces. Working, mind you, with Shia militia, the same Shiite militia that were fighting American troops while they were here in Iraq.
They were leading the ground offensive around the surrounding villages and townships of Amreli and then into Amreli itself. That occurred late this afternoon as they broke that siege. But certainly those U.S. air strikes making a huge difference. I think it's important also to point out, Fredricka, that this is an expanded mission as far as the United States is concerned.
We've seen them mainly up here in northern Iraq, focused around Erbil, the capital, which is where we are in Kurdistan, and then Mosul Dam, focusing very much on that critical piece of infrastructure that, yes, is under control of the Peshmerga, the Kurdish forces but the surrounding area definitely is not.
So, interesting to see the United States expand their mission down to Amreli, obviously to help with humanitarian aid drop by the United States, by the UK, France and Australia. But also to ensure that there wasn't a slaughter of the residence of Amreli, made up of these Shia Turkmen, less than 20,000 of them. Certainly we can say, crisis averted, thanks to these coordinated effort.
WHITFIELD: And Jamie, just days ago, you wrote that the U.S. current military role may not be enough to stop ISIS, saying this, "fear of mission creep, fear of putting American boots on the ground and excessive faith in the wonders of American military technology contribute to a fatal and contradictory combination of excessive caution and excessive confidence." So, do you not see there are any positive qualities that have come from this strategy, thus far?
JAMIE DETTMER, CONTRIBUTOR "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, of course, it's very good news that this town has been relieved. They've been besieged for two months, 17,000 Shiite Turkmen who were at the risk of being slaughtered. It not much of an expansion though on the lines the president laid down, (INAUDIBLE) U.S. diplomats in Baghdad and (INAUDIBLE) response humanitarian crisis.
And this town is not the most strategic on towns. It's a long way from retaking, let's say, Mosul or Fallujah, really strategic towns. The Kurds aren't making much progress, on a string of very strategic important towns to the south (INAUDIBLE). What we're waiting for is a comprehensive strategy. ISIS controls, what, a third of eastern Syria now, a quarter of Iraq. They still look like to their own supporters an invincible force that isn't really being taken down.
There was a feeling amongst a lot of Middle East analysts and people, American friends in the Middle East a bit of whiplash in term of the administration's response. That we had immediately after the terrible murder of James Foley, Secretary Kerry talking about crushing ISIS, and then we had the president subsequently walking back a bit and saying he hasn't got a strategy yet which probably wasn't the most morale-boosting thing he could say.
Look, to take them out is going to take a comprehensive strategy which is going to involve not just air strikes focused on northern Iraq but taking them as General Martin Dempsey made clear in Syria as well. It isn't just going to be an air war. It's going to be pretty comprehensive in terms of messing up their financial and logistical networks and also providing much more rearming of the Kurds who really are a force that is outgunned and outmatched at the moment by ISIS.
WHITFIELD: OK. Jamie Dettmer, Anna Corren, thank you so much. Appreciate that.
Coming up - should the U.S. begin arming Ukrainians as they inch closer to an all-out war with Russia? The Senate foreign relations chairman says, yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: The crisis in Ukraine inching closer to a full-scale war with Russia. Ukraine's president said the situation is getting worse by the day as Russian troops moved into eastern Ukraine. Moscow is clearly digging in its heels. This week, Putin made a point of reminding everyone, Russia is a nuclear nation and today he called for talks that included the issue of statehood in eastern Ukraine.
On CNN's "State of the Union" Senate foreign relations chair Robert Menendez says the U.S. has to give the Ukrainians a fighting chance to defend themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: It's at a point where a Russia has come invaded WITH thousands of troops with missiles, with tanks, this is no longer the question of some rebel separatists. This is a direct invasion by Russia and we must recognize it. When I read some of the headlines back at home that suggest that rebels are advancing in different parts of eastern Ukraine it's not rebels, it's Russian soldiers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: NATO is meeting this week in Wales to try to decide how to respond to the crisis. Let's turn now to Jill Dougherty, she's a public policy scholar at the Woodrow Wilson Center and a former CNN Moscow bureau chief. Good to see you, Jill. So what do you make of Putin's remarks today calling for talks that include the issue of statehood?
JILL DOUGHERTY, PUBLIC POLICY SCHOLAR, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: I this it's classic Putin. It's clear and unclear at the same time. I mean, did he actually mean statehood? It's kind of couched, well, the status of not necessarily statehood although that word can be interpreted that way.
In other words, what - and then, also, his spokesperson said, no, he wasn't talking about statehood at all. He was talking about the talks that he wants, peace talks, between Ukraine and the rebels. What's happening here, Fredricka, and this really now a constant theme, he says something, it's interpreted as a threat, and then he pulls back and they say, "No, it wasn't really a threat, we didn't mean that."
You can see it in the way the Russian troops are being used. They're there, people are seeing them, and then you know Russia says, "Well, I'm sorry, they just kind of unmaneuvered and went over the border." This is all probably on purpose and becoming very dangerous in terms of kind of what the next could be.
WHITFIELD: And NATO is meeting this week to discuss options in this conflict. What must be decided?
DOUGHERTY: Well, what must be decided is how do you answer what Vladimir Putin is doing because there is no easy answer. He, in other words, steps right up to the point where he might trigger some type of, let's say, military action - you've already heard the calls from the United States to help the Ukrainians to be armed better - and then he kind of pulls back. There is - Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so legally there's no legal reason for the west to defend them.
That said, how can the west stand by and let this happen? So that's the dilemma for NATO. They really are not, at this point, I think - they haven't really come to grips with precisely what they can do. The one thing, however, they are doing is they're going to create rapid reaction troops that will be able to quickly go to some place. And that might be a way of countering some of the action by Russia, perhaps if it were to take military action in other countries that are members of NATO.
WHITFIELD: Jill Dougherty, always good to see you. Thanks so much.
Straight ahead - the A.L.S. Association's $100 million challenge of what do they do with that incredible amount of money raised from the viral charity campaign? We'll discuss, next
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Oh, those A.L.S. ice bucket challenges, well they're everywhere on video the famous, not so famous and the infamous have been soaked with ice water to raise money to fight Lou Gehrig's disease.
But behind the staggering $100 million raised in just one month, a serious question, what happens to the donations? Only 28 cents out of every dollar goes to research. Should people know this before they dump the buck the on themselves? Here's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Superman and Lois Lane got doused, so did Homer Simpson, Matt Damon, Martha Stewart. This guy did in a plane upside down. In just one month, the ice bucket challenge has generated $100 million. As of Friday, the A.L.S. Association says donations are up an astonishing 3,504 percent from the same time period last year.
And while you can say that's #amazing, there's a worry that these dunkers' expectations might be disappointed. Because even with all of this money, a cure for A.L.S. is still a long way off.
PHIL BUCHANAN, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR EFFECTIVE PHILANTHROPY: Progress against these really tough issues takes patience and it takes time. We're not going to see results overnight and nobody should expect that.
COHEN: Phil Buchanan is president of the Center for Effective Philanthropy. He say whether it's an earthquake in Haiti or an attack on the homeland donors often want to see quick results and they want to know where their money is going right away.
BUCHANAN: There is a temptation to give it all away quickly but it might be wiser to be more deliberate, see what shows evidence of success, and then and only then, fund that in a bigger way.
COHEN (on camera): Why would there be pressure to distribute it quickly?
BUCHANAN: I think that donors may just have an expectation that it's simpler than it is.
COHEN (voice-over): The A.L.S. Association doesn't have a breakdown yet of how all of the ice bucket money will be spent and it acknowledges spending pressure's directly in a statement this week saying "this isn't a matter of spending these dollars quickly, it's a matter of investing these dollars prudently, to achieve maximum impact in our quest to help people living with the disease and those yet to be diagnosed."
And while a cure might not come overnight, at least for now more and more money is. With ice bucket challenge donations averaging $9 million per day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charity A.L.S., yes, donate.
COHEN: Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: So what will be done with all of that money? My panel weighs in, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. So the ice bucket challenge has had incredible success as a fund-raiser but what sort of results might it have? The organization says only a quarter of the overall money raised in 2014 is going to research, about a third to education, and some say the success of the ice bucket challenge has come at the expense of other charities.
There's a lot to talk about with CNN political commentators Ben Ferguson, who is joining us from a rainy New York today, and Marc Lamont Hill in Philadelphia. Good to see both of you, gentlemen.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good evening.
WHITFIELD: OK. So do you have concerns, Marc, you first, about where this money is going? $100 million, that's a lot.
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a lot of money, but if you look at most charities, if you look at how much actually goes to the research and how much goes to administrative costs, infrastructure, et cetera, you realize this isn't that uncommon. I'd rather see it in this proportion than other charities, sometimes we know they were quite famous, where the money wasn't just not going to research it was actually going to illegal or unethical purposes.
So I'm not too bothered by this and I'm glad to see awareness not just for this charity but some others.
WHITFIELD: And so Ben, how about you? You know, what's your personal take on this sort of challenge? How it's taken off, do you trust that the money's going into the right places?
FERGUSON: Well, I think we should be looking where the money's going. I hope with $100 million influx as they're talking about here, surely a significant portion of that is going to go to research and not go to hiring hundreds of new staff members because they had no idea this cash was going to come in. So if they're responsible with it I would think they would say they would come out and make it very clear to the public, not only did we raise a lot of money for our organization to take care of these things and do these things but also we're going to put a significant of amount into research and development, the same way that other charities, like St. Jude Children's Hospital, you know, in my hometown of Memphis, Tennessee. And so, for me, I think it's a great thing that's brought a lot of acknowledging of this issue to the forefront, a lot of people did not even know what this was.
WHITFIELD: Right.
FERGUSON: Beforehand. And it's already been something I think has really been fun for people to challenge one another. And it's all at the same time bringing awareness. So in that way, I mean - I guaranteed you they never imagined they had success. Plus you get people to throw buckets of water on themselves which is pretty awesome. I'm waiting on Marc, by the way. I'm waiting on MARCIANO: has been wussing out.
WHITFIELD: Sounds like a big challenge right now, Marc.
FERGUSON: Come on, Marc. It's not going to mess up much of your hair.
HILL: I accept.
WHITFIELD: He accepts the challenge.
HILL: It's true. I accept the challenge, see. See how easy it was.
WHITFIELD: We're going to have to make arrangements for the next live hit. It's happening at the end of your hit.
HILL: I'm ready.
WHITFIELD: So for you, Ben, what was appealing to you personally in? You did take on the challenge. We have the video of you getting drowned out by some water.
FERGUSON: Ready?
WHITFIELD: There it is.
FERGUSON: I was playing tennis and I was like, at the end, I got challenged, I was like, I'm going to do this, let's go. You can hear in the background.
My favorite Sunday morning host, you're on notice, you're not getting out of this. And finally Senator Ted Cruz from Texas, you're a Texan, you can't conked out on this. You got 24 hours. Good luck.
Now watch this.
WHITFIELD: Uh, oh.
FERGUSON: Watch this.
WHITFIELD: Some water and ice -- there it is.
FERGUSON: I was just playing tennis and I was like -- at the end, I was like, I got challenged, I was like, all right, I'm going to do this, let's go. And -- well, you can hear it in the background.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: My favorite Sunday morning host, you're on notice, you're not getting out of this.
And finally, Senator Ted Cruz from Texas, you're a Texan, you can't punk out on this. You've got 24 hours, good luck.
Now watch this. Watch this. That is real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Well, hopefully it was refreshing because it was a hot --
FERGUSON: That's right.
WHITFIELD: Hot day on the tennis court, right?
FERGUSON: Go big or go home. No. And by the way, Candy Crowley, I know that she's going to either at least see this clip if she's not watching right now. Don Lemon came through, Ted Cruz accepted the challenge. Candy is my favorite Sunday morning talk show host.
Marc, you with her this morning. I think Candy Crowley should probably do this. I think it's about time that she --
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think so, too.
FERGUSON: -- put the video out there on YouTube. I mean, I know -- look, she looks beautiful on Sunday mornings but come on, it's time and I think now we've brought the --
WHITFIELD: That's right.
FERGUSON: The focus of this on Candy. So yes, it's time for her to show up.
WHITFIELD: All right.
FERGUSON: Everybody just tweet her right now. If you're tweeting, tweet Candy, and say, Candy, they're talking about you, and we're ready for your bucket.
WHITFIELD: And she's probably getting the message right now, maybe it will happen live on camera as well. Maybe Marc, Candy, we get you guys together, since this is, you know, Ben's challenge to you.
HILL: I'm on board.
WHITFIELD: And make it happen.
So, you know, Marc, you made an interesting point. You were talking about other charities that aren't benefiting as a result. But doesn't that always happen when, you know, you've got a very successful kind of public awareness campaign, and yes, it might take away from the attention of the other charities but, you know, I guess there's, you know, lots of love to go around and perhaps some --
HILL: Yes. It's par for the course.
WHITFIELD: You know, it's all cyclical.
HILL: No. Absolutely. It's par for the course. I mean, for a long time ALS was underresearched, undersupported. FERGUSON: Absolutely.
HILL: And so this is sort of evening the playing field just a little bit and I'm glad that it's going to a worthy cause. But we've seen this with breast cancer awareness, we've seen this with HIV-AIDS research. There are moments where one charity spikes and the others fall back but it all evens out eventually.
WHITFIELD: Very good.
All right. Marc Lamont Hill, can't wait to see the, you know, ice bucket on your head.
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: It's going to happen. Yes.
FERGUSON: I'm glad we got him on record. He can't run away.
HILL: Ben, would love to do it.
WHITFIELD: And Ben, I love that you're a good sport on the tennis court and off, that you're willing to do it. Thanks so much, guys, appreciate it.
FERGUSON: See you soon.
WHITFIELD: All right.
HILL: Pleasure.
WHITFIELD: All right. We've got much more straight ahead here in CNN NEWSROOM.
The ice bucket challenge, well, it may have kind of revolutionized the way people raise awareness for lots of causes.
Coming up, a worthy new challenge going viral. Pull your pants up. The details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. The ALS ice bucket challenge might have changed awareness raising forever the late incarnation isn't raising money for a disease. Instead, this one carries a message. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALIK KING, PARTICIPANT, PULL YOUR PANTS UP CHALLENGE: So I'm here. There's a new challenge going on, right? Somebody named Charles challenged a friend of mine, Mike, and then Mike challenged myself. So now I'm challenging Robert, Nick and Sean.
Now ready to see what the new challenge is? Pull your damn pants up. Communities to talk about racial profiling,
about how the cops that targeted young, black men. But what we don't want to focus on is what we're doing to contribute to the problem. Even if just a little bit. If we just start thinking about how we represented ourselves, how we talk, how we act, how we deal with police. We need to stop talking, acting and living like thugs and start talking, acting, and living like men. Stop making the conscious decision to fit a description.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right. Malik King is the man in that video and he's joining us right now in New York.
Good to see you.
KING: To see you, ma'am. How are you?
WHITFIELD: I'm good. So what's been the reception from this challenge? Are you seeing that, you know, young men are pulling up their pants more or anyone commenting to you about the video challenge you issued?
KING: Well, ma'am, I'm noticing that there are people who approve of the challenge just as there are people who disapprove of the challenge. Since I issued the challenge, I mean, I've had an overwhelming amount of support from people. Friend requests -- over 3,000 friend requests, just inboxes, just telling me that they support the challenge and they support what it stands for.
You know, it is a challenge that is forcing individuals to think about the way that they choose to represent themselves and how your presentation can influence, you know, perception.
WHITFIELD: So what's the message in your view that is being sent when a young man wears his pants. It's no longer just slightly, you know, below the waistline, now it's all the way, like under the butt, you know, right about the thigh area? What's the message that's being sent in your view? What are they trying to say?
KING: Well, what I'm trying to say, ma'am, is that this trend is not something that began in the hip pop culture, like some like to say. It's not a trend that began somewhere in the black community. This is a trend that began in prison. And we know for various reasons it began in prison. And I don't think that any trend that comes from prison, a negative place, something that we should be allowing to continue. It's not something that we should be willing to enforce. It should be something that we want to keep in prison where it belongs. It doesn't belong with the society.
WHITFIELD: All right. I want to open this up and invite a couple more people to the panel and talk some more about this. Let's bring in Tara Setmayer, co-host of "Real News" on the Blaze TV and CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill also back.
So, Marc, let me hear from you because apparently I hear you don't like this challenge. Why?
HILL: I disagree with its premise and I disagree with the belief that this has anything to do with black -- young black men being criminalized. I saw the campaign, I saw the full of 44-second clip and I also read the description. And it suggests, and the brother just said a little bit right now that somehow there's a connection between black male profiling and our pants being sagging.
Well, the truth is before black people pulled their pants down they were still getting locked up. So there's absolutely no connection between the two. The idea that it begins in prison is actually an urban myth and urban legend. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that. But even if it did, that still doesn't justify police profiling and my concern is that if we continue to tell young black men that they can behave or dress or otherwise demonstrate their way out of police oppression or police abuse, they were blaming the victim here.
People can make good healthy choices like not committing crimes, like going to school, all that good stuff. But was pulling your pants up has absolutely nothing to do with police and it's a dangerous message we send.
WHITFIELD: So Malik?
KING: Well, what I have to say to that is, being an African-American from the ghetto myself, in just seeing what I see in my community on a daily basis, seeing how we are destroying our own communities, now I understand, and I agree 100 percent that racial profiling is a big issue, I understand that. I also understand that racism is a big issue. I understand that. I also understand that there are crooked cops out there who may not have anything better to do but target young, black men.
I understand it's not a popular opinion. But that also does happen. That is also true. But I like to think of things from both sides of the coin. If you have a strong police presence in your community on one hand, it could be because maybe cops have nothing better to do, but then on another hand it could be because we are in our communities reinforcing these negative stereotypes. It could very well be because we're littering and graffiti, you know, in our communities.
That could very well be that we are making the conscious decision to reinforce negativity and not positivity. And it does directly relate to perception.
WHITFIELD: So, Tara, how do you see this? Because we're already talking about a few about different things here, you know, from -- we're talking about how it may contribute or not to profiling, or to the degradation of a young man's image.
Tara, how are you, you know, digesting this conversation and this campaign in how useful in your view might it be?
TARA SETMAYER, CO-HOST, REAL NEWS ON THE BLAZE TV: Well, I applaud Malik because what he's saying, he's 100 percent correct. Now I find it hard to believe that Marc would be, as educated as he is, as much as he has contributed to the black community and trying to overcome the negativity that's in the community, that he would actually sit here and try to justify emulating bad behavior.
And also to set the record straight, my husband was a correctional officer early in his career and absolutely the sagging of the pants is absolutely originating from prison culture. It started with not being able to wear belts and then it turned into something else with a sexual invitation in prison. So for anyone to sit here and try to make excuses for bad behavior, you know, it's easier to perpetuate victims and blame everyone else for issues rather than teaching responsibility for your behavior and empowerment. And I think that's the message that Malik is saying. In the real world presentation matters.
Professor Marc Lamont Hill --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: But that's not the point --
SETMAYER: Do stood up right now, are your parents sagging down below your behind? I don't think so.
WHITFIELD: Marc?
HILL: Well, I'm nearly 36 years old, so, no, my pants aren't sagging. At 16 they were, and I think I turned out OK. I still got an Ivy League PhD.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Wait a minute. At 16 you were wearing your pants down low like we're seeing right now?
HILL: Yes, of course. Why? Because that's what people do. Again, I think you are making two different arguments, conflating the two. Hear me out. Whether or not we like sagging -- when I talk into a store and I see a kid with his butt hanging out, I don't like it either. I think -- I don't like the way it looks. And I tell kids when I taught high school, I told kids to pull their pants up because I didn't like the way it looks.
But there's a difference between that and suggesting that that, quote- unquote, bad behavior is somehow a sign of criminality and somehow warrants the type of impact that police have in our communities. Because guess what, when I taught at Columbia University, my white students also had that. When I go to the suburbs in Philadelphia where I didn't grow up, I grew up in Northville, but when I look in the suburbs, they have it, too.
And guess what, police aren't using that as a pretext to arrest them, to terrorize them or shoot them with their hands up. We have to stop blaming black people for police poor behavior.
SETMAYER: No. HILL: Yes, we can check our own behavior but they have nothing to do
with each other.
SETMAYER: You can't blame black people for not having self- reflection. For making excuses within their own community for bad behavior, that's the problem. We're not -- you know, you have the NAACP actually going after a town in Florida who is trying to have an ordinance saying that we don't want people's underwear hanging out and their pants sagging down, maybe the NAACP should hold a workshop, teaching young black men how to wear a suit and tie a tie and having black men come in as mentors and explaining to them that what it takes --
HILL: They do that.
SETMAYER: The presentation matters. Instead of wasting your time trying to reinforce bad behavior. This kind of mixed messages coming from within the black community. People would actually go --
HILL: It's not a mixed message.
SETMAYER: It is a mixed message. You're saying that it's OK.
KING: Also Marc --
SETMAYER: To behave like a prisoner.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: No, no, it's not what I'm saying. What I'm -- what I'm saying is that you shouldn't tell people that the reason they're getting harassed and profiled is because of how low their pants are hanging. Because that's --
(CROSSTALK)
KING: That's not absolutely true, Marc.
WHITFIELD: Well, it sounds like Malik is saying it's a contributing factor.
HILL: No, it is true. But --
KING: Exactly.
WHITFIELD: Malik, why don't you button this up?
KING: What I said specifically is we need to focus on how we choose to represent ourselves. We need to focus on how we choose to represent ourselves, excuse me, and that we can contribute even if just a little way. And I make sure I did say that, even if just a little way.
HILL: Exactly. And I'm saying it doesn't --
KING: Because why is there -- and the reason why I say that, it's not -- why do we have a strong police presence in my community? That's something that you have to be realistic about. Is it only because we are being racially profiled or is that only because the cops have a reason to be in black communities in the first place.
WHITFIELD: All right.
HILL: Can I ask Malik one quick question? Can I ask Malik one quick question?
WHITFIELD: Make it quick.
KING: Yes, sir.
HILL: Malik, before people were pulling their pants down, did we still have a strong police presence and the same issues we're dealing with right now?
KING: Yes, we did. Yes, we did, sir. Yes, we did.
HILL: Ding, ding, ding.
KING: But that was then, and this is now.
HILL: That's my boy.
WHITFIELD: All right.
SETMAYER: Responsibility, every single person in this country has a choice either behave like a criminal or they have a choice to behave like a reasonable person and carry themselves with respect.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: I wish we had more time. I know this has hit a nerve with everybody and, you know, there's so many more sentiments in which to express but we are going to have to leave it right here.
Tara, Malik, Marc, thanks so much to all of you. Appreciate it.
KING: Thanks for having me. Thank you.
SETMAYER: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much.
All right. Is the president's lack of action empowering our nation's enemies? Political price of Obama's foreign policy next.
But first, time to meet this week's CNN hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN LEARY, CNN HERO: I was a firefighter in Philly for seven years. You get to a fire scene and the firefighters are there to put out the fire. The Salvation Army and the Red Cross assist the people once the fire was out. But there just wasn't anyone there to help the other part of the family.
I would see how upset the people were about their animals. You know, where is my pet? And then where is it going to go? These are the people's children. They've just lost everything. They shouldn't then be forced to lose their pets as well.
We have a dog displaced by a fire, a Chihuahua. I'm headed to the scene now.
We respond 24/7, 365 days a year. We do for pet what the Red Cross does for people. We went into the basement, found the dog hiding behind something. Once the fire is under control, we're able to look for the animals and bring them out.
Hi, baby. Come here.
Red Paw headquarters is my house. We've helped close to a thousand animals. She's been at my house and the owners said she was pregnant. Everything that their animal needs we'll handle for free for them.
When we reunite the families, it's a good thing. It's like this void has now been filled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Chocolate. Welcome home.
LEARY: My hope is that a fresh start that they can move forward together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're home.
LEARY: After going through such a sad thing, it's so good to have a happy ending.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. President Obama told Democratic donors Friday night that the world sometimes seems like it's falling apart but in his words, quote, "We will get through these challenging times just like we have in the past." But critics of his foreign policy are increasingly vocal. One Republican says even U.S. allies are worried about American leadership.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE ROGERS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: And it shows, I think, exemplifies that his foreign policies is an absolutely free- fall. If you look at China, you look at ISIS, you look at Russia, you look at Iran, North Korea, we have a serious host of problems presenting itself, and our traditional allies are now standing up and say, well, maybe, America is not the best ones to lead us through these troubles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Let's talk about the Obama foreign policy with CNN's political commentators Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill.
OK. So, Ben, you first.
FERGUSON: Yes.
WHITFIELD: You know, Congressman Rogers says American allies are worried. How do we know that? Are they really?
FERGUSON: Well, I think a lot of them are because they're not seeing the leadership. I mean, there's something that this president has been very clear about when he ran the first and the second time. He did not want to be a war president, he doesn't feel comfortable in that aspect, he doesn't want to be in charge of troops and attacking or going in these different ways. Even the Arab League has been saying to him now for almost two years, ISIS is going to be a real threat and have asked him to come along with them and he was delayed.
Even Dianne Feinstein said that this morning. And she's one of the top Democrats on the Senate side that knows this stuff and as she put it, she said, look, he does not seem to want lead on going after ISIS and unfortunately he's pretty much going to have to whether he likes it or not. So you better go ahead and get on board.
WHITFIELD: Well, actually what she said -- well, actually what she said is something she really liked about his leadership, is that he likes to take his time and be thoughtful. She didn't necessarily say he was lacking leadership.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: That may not be fast enough.
HILL: That's a gross mischaracterization of what she said.
WHITFIELD: She wasn't saying lacking leadership, she was saying that he likes to take his time in making a decision.
FERGUSON: But she said with this one, she thinks that sometimes he takes way too much time because he doesn't want to deal with the issues and I think that's what the issue is.
Look at David Cameron, you see him being blunt and just telling it what's really going on.
WHITFIELD: But isn't that just a different style of leadership?
FERGUSON: It's not a different style of leadership when you're not leading on the issue at all. David Cameron has said, we're going to have to deal with ISIS and we're going to have to deal with them so we've got to --
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Marc, Marc, is that the case?
HILL: Well, let me respond to that. WHITFIELD: Is it that simple? Is the president lacking leadership or
is this an issue of style? How do you see it? Marc?
HILL: I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, I do -- I am a little concerned with his "we don't have any strategy for Syria" statement. Not because I doubt that he has a legitimate strategy but I think projects the wrong image. But I have to disagree with Ben. I don't think the president has said nor has he demonstrated that he is uncomfortable leading troops or that he is uncomfortable being able to prosecute wars. I think the president doesn't want to prosecute unjust wars. And while I disagree with the president's strategy on certain foreign policy issues --
FERGUSON: But would this be unjust?
HILL: I think he's -- let me finish, Ben. If anything, I actually think he's fallen too closely to the Bush doctrine in terms of being aggressive. And the fact that David Cameron wants to stand up and take the George Bush cowboy approach about ISIS I think it's actually short sighted and problematic. I mean yes, we need to attack ISIS.
FERGUSON: It's not cowboy --
HILL: We need to strike ISIS. And, Ben, when you talk about airstrikes, both in Syria and in Iraq, that is an effective strategy. Ultimately you do need boots on the ground. But for us to put American boots on the ground, not just the country's war weary, but also because tactically it doesn't make sense. Remember it's the --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: But here's the issue.
HILL: -- occupation of Iraq that produces ISIS.
FERGUSON: Look at -- here's --
HILL: If you look at the -- if you were to go into Syria --
FERGUSON: But, Marc, let me say this. Look at the Arab League, when they came forward and they came to the United States and said, we could use all of the military help, intelligence and airstrikes and we're willing to do more on the ground, and Barack Obama blatantly said, I don't really want to be a part of this.
And that's when the cautious side of him actually becomes the detriment because whether you like it or not -- and I think this is what David Cameron's saying, it's not so much style. It's substance. He was -- we are going to have to admit that ISIS is a problem in this world, it is growing rapidly, and incredible --
HILL: But no one has denied --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: But Obama is not leading on those issues. HILL: Who are these imaginary people --
WHITFIELD: Yes. OK. So, guys, I wonder, there is a variation of interpretations. You know, allies see the president's actions one way, elected officials see it another way, American citizens see it another as well. And so --
FERGUSON: But he also said they were JV, what I'm saying here. You look at what he said, he said that ISIS is JV because he didn't want to admit that they were actual terrorists he's going to have to deal with because he doesn't like dealing with them.
WHITFIELD: Marc.
HILL: That's not true. Ben, OK, a couple of things. First of all with regard to ISIS --
FERGUSON: Then why call them JV?
HILL: Two --
WHITFIELD: All right.
HILL: I'll answer if you're going to let me talk. Two years --
WHITFIELD: Except you have to talk really fast because we're really up against the clock.
HILL: OK. In many ways, ISIS very much was JV two years ago. Even at this moment they still can't beat the Kurds in the north. They're still struggling this south.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
HILL: ISIS is a big insurgency that we need to stop but you don't stop them with American troops.
WHITFIELD: All right.
HILL: You stop them with the global community. That's what John Kerry said. That's what we need to do. That's what Obama is trying to do.
WHITFIELD: We will leave it there. Hey, guess what, we get to hear you again next hour. You still are going to get a whole lot of air time. There's still more from Ben and Marc coming up in the next hour.
For now, we're ending it.
All right. We're tracking several other different militant groups making power grabs in key parts of the Middle East. Let's take a look right here at this map. Libyan militants ransacked an empty U.S. embassy. An al Qaeda-linked group moves near Syria's border with Israel. And ISIS militants threatened parts of Iraq. What happens if these different groups decide to perhaps band together? Our expert panel breaks it all down for you, next.
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