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No Grand Jury Decision Yet; U.S. Military Role Extended in Afghanistan; GOP-Led Report on Benghazi Released; Bill Cosby Rape Allegations; Melting Snow Could Create Major Flooding; Executive Grilled Over Airbag Incidents; Obama Tackles Immigration Head On; Mother Rescues Daughter from ISIS

Aired November 22, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: So the real stars are indeed the CNN Heroes. The show airs Sunday, December 7th, at 8:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

We've got so much more straight ahead in the NEWSROOM and it all starts right now.

All right. Hello, again, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. At this hour, new information about the Ferguson grand jury. Sources tell CNN the grand jury did not reach a decision. We'll break down what that means and how the community is reacting.

Then American combat troops prepare to withdraw from Afghanistan. The president quietly expanding another military role in that country. Details on the changes ahead.

Plus, Bill Cosby at the center of new rape allegations, but that didn't stop the crowd from giving the comedian a standing ovation in Florida. Wait until you hear what he just said about the accusations.

Anxiety is high in Ferguson, Missouri, as we wait on a decision from the grand jury deliberating the case against police officer Darren Wilson. We just found out the jury did not reach a decision on Friday.

Let's go right to CNN justice reporter, Evan Perez, in Clayton, Missouri.

So, Evan, what are you hearing about the circumstances of no decision yet?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, we know the wait continues. The grand jury was meeting yesterday. They left here last night, they were here at the grand jury room in the St. Louis County Justice Center behind me. And whatever their deliberations were yesterday, they decided they needed more time.

The question is whether they're returning here today, whether they're back here today, that is, or whether they're going to wait until Monday or some other day next week to continue their discussions, to continue looking at the evidence, and making a decision on whether to indict Darren Wilson, the police officer, who shot Michael Brown.

As you said, you know, the tension is pretty high in Ferguson. We're a few miles away from there. We have protesters in town, we have people -- I run into people from Colorado, people from New York, who have come here, waiting for this weekend, waiting for a decision from this grand jury. And that wait is going to continue for a little longer.

WHITFIELD: And so, Evan, is it ever the case that a grand jury can be deadlocked, or is it the case that of the 12, nine must have a decision, no matter how long it takes?

PEREZ: Well, you know, that's actually a very good question. You know, if the grand jury can't reach a decision, that means there is no indictment, that means that there is no true bill. That means that the officer here, Darren Wilson, is not going to face any charges. So that is actually part of the -- what we don't know is going on behind the scenes.

We don't know whether they were simply deadlocked on some of these questions that were presented by the prosecutors or whether this is just a matter of them wanting to take more time looking at the evidence. That's the big question that, you know, it's still a secret proceeding. We've talked to sources who tell us some of what's going on, but really those 12 people who are in that room are the ones that -- that know where they're at.

WHITFIELD: And Evan, there remains the possibility that these jurors could ask for new testimony or --

PEREZ: Right.

WHITFIELD: Information on those who have testified. They may ask them to testify again?

PEREZ: Well, yes. I mean, they have -- they're in control. You know, once these prosecutors have, you know, given them everything. They have the ability to ask for more information. They are in control of this -- of this matter, of this decision. So if they want more time, if they want more information, the prosecutors have to give it to them, obviously. And that's where we're at.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. All right, Evan Perez, thank you so much from Clayton. Keep us posted.

Meantime, the U.S. military's role in Afghanistan will be extended next year, despite President Obama announcing a troop drawdown. According to "The New York Times," President Obama has signed an order authorizing a more expansive mission for troops in Afghanistan.

I want to go to our Erin McPike at the White House for a better explanation about what all of this means and when this plan goes into place -- Erin.

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, you may remember that President Obama was adamant that combat would conclude in Afghanistan by the end of the year. And this new order could, in effect, reverse that.

Now it is not a brand-new military campaign or specific offensive, but it just gives U.S. troops in Afghanistan a little more authority and more room to do what they need to do in case they are threatened. It gives them the authority to carry out missions against the Taliban and other groups that threaten them. But I want to play for you first what President Obama said in the Rose Garden, in May, when he was announcing that the U.S. would wind down the troop presence and that combat would conclude.

Well, here he is, describing the two remaining objectives. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've made it clear that we're open to cooperating with Afghans on two narrow missions after 2014. Training Afghan forces and supporting counterterrorism operations against the remnants of al Qaeda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: Now this new order builds on that counterterrorism and could allow for some more combat. I want to read to you the specific language provided to us by a senior administration official this morning. That official said, "As part of this mission, the United States may provide combat enabler support to the Afghan National Security Forces in limited circumstances to prevent detrimental strategic effects to these Afghan Security Forces."

That official goes on to say, "While we will no longer target belligerents, solely because they are members of the Taliban, to the extent that Taliban members directly threaten the United States and coalition forces in Afghanistan or provide direct support to al Qaeda, we will take appropriate measures to keep Americans safe."

And Fred, I will also point out that one of those things we're hearing from administration officials and other experts is that this administration learned a lot from the decades-long expedition in Iraq and the fact that after the U.S. pulled out, it really created this situation for ISIS and the Khorasan and other groups to be created. And they want to avoid that same kind of thing happening in Afghanistan.

And that's why they are giving U.S. troops the authority to do more if they should need that authority -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Erin McPike, thanks so much, at the White House.

All right. A vindication for the Obama administration and former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton? A long-awaited report on the Benghazi terror attack finds no wrongdoing from that administration. Investigation which was spearheaded by Republicans debunks theories that there was a cover-up.

Senior media correspondent and host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter, has details.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fred. This sure looked like a Friday night news dump. That's the news industry term for an announcement or a report that comes out that seems to get buried by the people releasing it. And in this case, this report was put out by the House Intelligence Committee, controlled by Republicans, but also made up of Democrats.

This was a bipartisan report to look into what happened on the night of the terrorist attack in Benghazi, Libya, on September 11th, 2012. The report was released with little fanfare on Friday night, but it seemed to dismiss many of the conspiratorial myths that have been built up and have surrounded the events in Benghazi. For example, the report found that there was no intelligence failure prior to the attack.

It also found that there was no, quote-unquote, "stand down order" given to military assets that could have tried to help and save the four Americans who died there that night. And the report goes into great detail, but I've got to be honest, I don't think it's going to change many people's minds. The report got very little attention from conservative media outlets when it was released on Friday night.

I notice only two mentions of it on FOX News, for example. FOX is one of the main media outlets that has really advanced the narrative about Benghazi that's conspiratorial, that suggests that criminal acts were taken by people involved, maybe people in the Obama administration, maybe people in then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's State Department.

This report is not the only one about Benghazi and it will not be the last. The House Select Committee on Benghazi continues its investigation and it says it is undeterred by these new revelations.

Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brian, thank you so much for that.

Coming up, Bill Cosby at the center of new rape allegations. But that didn't stop the crowd from giving the comedian a standing ovation. Wait until you hear what he said about the accusations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In a surprise move, Bill Cosby has now commented on those sexual assault allegations that have been piling up against him. A lot of people have been hoping he would address the allegations made by several women, and now we've learned that he did speak about it during an interview with a Florida newspaper.

I want to go to CNN's Sara Ganim in New York.

And so he breaks his silence backstage, right?

SARA GANIM, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fred. You know, there are three -- up to three new women who have come forward with new allegations in the last 24 hours of sexual misconduct by Bill Cosby. They join 10 others who have spoken publicly through various media outlets in the last several days. None of these women's stories have yet been verified by CNN, I need to say that, but their stories do share many similarities.

In many cases, the women say they believe they were drugged by Cosby. And he had been silent up until now, as you mentioned, but last night he talked a bit to the Florida newspaper called "Florida Today," the most detailed response he's ever given. This is what he said. Quote, "I know people are tired of me not saying anything, but a guy does not have to answer to innuendos. People should fact check, people shouldn't have to go through that and shouldn't have to answer to innuendos."

Now to be clear, Fred, these are mostly detailed and specific allegations that are being made against him by these women, not just innuendo.

Fred, I also want to tell you that as these women continue to come forward, we're also hearing stories from members of the media who say they tried to dig deeper into allegations against Cosby, but were strong-armed by his lawyers. A contributor for the "Daily Beast" told Anderson Cooper on CNN that when he worked for a different media company several years ago, his story was censored by Cosby's lawyer.

Additionally, the talk show host, Wendy Williams, said on her show this week, that when she worked in local radio in the 1990s, Cosby himself called the station and tried to get her fired for reading on air a story from the "National Enquirer" that mentioned allegations against Cosby.

Now his lawyer Marty Singer has not yet responded to our questions about those reports of those squashed stories. But he did say this. He said, "Over and over and over again, we have refuted these new unsubstantiated stories with documentary evidence only to have new uncorroborated stories crop up out of the woodwork. When will it end? It is long past time for this media vilification of Mr. Cosby to stop," end quote -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Sara Ganim, thank you so much from New York.

All right. As the grand jury in Ferguson weighs its decision, we'll go live to Missouri to hear what's being done right now in that community to prevent any unrest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Sources tell CNN's justice reporter, Evan Perez, there was no grand jury decision on Friday in the case against Ferguson police officer, Darren Wilson.

Jason Carroll is live for us in Clayton, Missouri, a town of about 15,000, which borders St. Louis.

So, Jason, what are people in Clayton saying? JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, understandably, like

most people in the general area of St. Louis, there's concern here as well. Just within the past few minutes, I just want to show you what's been happening, where we are in front of the justice center here. You can see some of those -- those orange and yellow pylons over there. Some of the workers coming in, because they're just setting up for what will eventually happen out here, possibly at some point, they'll be blocking off the street here.

But just want to give you a sense of what's happening behind me, as we're talking here. But I've been in this community now for a few days, talking to people here, just a few blocks from where I'm standing, there are a number of businesses. And a lot of people have some very real concerns.

Some business owners, protectively buying plywood in case they have to board up windows. Checking on their insurance to see if they're covered in case something happens. One owner telling me that he is covered, filed under the category of civil unrest.

But having said that, I also have to point out another point here, and that is, given all that we've seen here, Fredricka, over the past few months, the overwhelming amount of demonstrations that we've seen throughout the area of St. Louis, whether it be Ferguson or in other parts, has been peaceful.

And so that's one thing that you have to remember, despite everything that you're hearing here about people preparing for this or preparing for that, some of those people here in the community point out, perhaps what will happen in the future will be in some ways what we've seen here in the past. Peaceful demonstrations, regardless of whatever decision the grand jury happens to reach.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jason Carroll, thanks so much in Clayton.

I'm joined now by Justin Hansford. He is an assistant professor at St. Louis University Law School. And he has also been a community organizer for the protesters. And Bishop Harry Jackson Jr., he is the senior pastor of Hope Christian Church and the founder of the High Impact Leadership Coalition.

Both joining me from Ferguson.

Good to see both of you, gentlemen. Thanks so much.

BISHOP HARRY JACKSON JR., SENIOR PASTOR, HOPE CHRISTIAN CHURCH: Good morning, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So, Bishop, if I could ask you first, you know, what are your impressions about the message being sent when you see the barricades going up there, outside the courthouse in nearby Clayton?

JACKSON: I think it looks like an occupying force is in the land, and unfortunately, part of the history seems to me, is that there is this policing force that's not from the community, that's not -- some are raised to the people that are here, and it can be ominous. But I agree with your previous statements, that it seems like people that live in these regions want some kind of peaceful interaction.

WHITFIELD: And so, Justin, you've been one of the organizers of what is likely to be a gathering or -- do you want it to be called a protest? What is your plan as it relates to people gathering, there in Ferguson after a decision is announced?

JUSTIN HANSFORD, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Well, I think it's inevitable that people will come out to express their righteous indignation. I was actually in the United Nations with the Mike Brown family recently and we know that there's a moral outrage that is sure to register in the event that there's no accountability for the killing of Mike Brown that's part of a long legacy of unaccountability for police killings of young people of color.

So the plan is to try to promote safety. We're providing safe spaces for people in the event that there is widespread unrest. And I think that the bottom line is that people throughout the community are really worried about their own safety and the safety of their friends and family. So we're trying to make sure that whether it's police reactions, whether it's tear gas, whether it's rubber bullets, whatever sorts of overreactions the police engage in, we want to keep people safe from that by any means necessary.

WHITFIELD: So, Justin, you mentioned the indignation if there's no indictment, but what if there is an indictment? It seems like what you were -- you were painting the picture if there is no indictment. But what if there is an indictment, are you saying that people will still gather, the scene would be different, or what you just painted is going to happen, regardless of what kind of indictment or whether there is no indictment? Justin?

HANSFORD: Well, it's impossible to predict what people will do. I'll say that even if there is an indictment, we will be looking forward to a trial. Remember, this decision is only a grand jury indictment decision. And we still have to look forward to a long trial process, which could result in the finding of innocence. So that will mean a longer period of organizing and raising awareness.

But, again, there's such a large number of people in the community who are passionately interested in justice. And so they are going to be responding. And I believe that there's an appropriate response. And whether there's an indictment or no indictment, I think people are going to be showing that they're here. They have a moral consciousness and they want to make their presence felt, express their First Amendment rights.

WHITFIELD: All right. Bishop, go ahead.

JACKSON: Fredricka, can I add something?

WHITFIELD: Yes.

JACKSON: I think that we have to also focus on long-term solutions. I'm in a summit here that is bringing blacks and whites together to begin to deal with this issue. We are not in a post-racial environment. It's going to take a long time to heal the problems. But I think we need to challenge churches to rise up across racial boundaries, and be a healing agency for the long haul.

No matter what happens, it seems like the church united. Black, white, Hispanic, has not answered that call yet. So I'm for issuing that call, that alarm saying, wake up. Let's unify, so that justice can happen long term.

WHITFIELD: Bishop Harry Jackson, Justin Hansford, thanks to both of you gentlemen for joining.

Still to come, deadly and unprecedented. That has been the week for Buffalo, buried under a snowstorm. We'll have a live report on how the city is trying to dig out and bracing for another potential problem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Thirty-year fixed mortgage rates held steady this week. Have a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Thirteen people dead, roads impassable, roofs buckling. The once-in-a-lifetime snow event in Buffalo this week has many in the city still reeling. And what's next? No relief at all. It is raining now, putting more weight on roofs that can't handle it. And temperatures are also rising, creating fears of major flooding in the area.

Alexandra Field is in Buffalo. A year's worth of snow in less than a week. How is that snow removal effort going?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it actually sounds pretty shocking, but you can believe it when you see it. And you look at these snow banks that they've piled up. They've been making passes on this road all morning.

Now you can see these snow banks, six, seven-feet high, not an unusual sight, frankly. Look all the way down this stream, you can see that both sides are lined with these massive snow banks. This is because there's such a concerted effort to get the snow up, get it off the roads right now. And for the last two days, Fred, we really have seen that happening.

They've opened up some of the roads that were shut down, and the goal there was to get abandoned vehicles off the road and to make way for more services to be provided. To bring in more trucks and bring in more snow removal equipment, and also to bring in the tools that will be needed if we start to see flooding, which is of course the major concern when you talk about this much snow.

The governor is warning that as temperatures rise, we could see the most significant flooding that this area has seen in a very long time.

WHITFIELD: And it looks like, Alexandra, the conditions are changing there. The last time we spoke, it looked a little sunnier. But now I'm hearing that wind and it's kind of ominous that the sky seems a little bit more ominous than before.

Looks like we don't have audio there with Alexandra Steele.

FIELD: Fred, you're breaking up a little bit.

WHITFIELD: That's OK. We're going to -- we're going to check back with you.

FIELD: But you're right, there are --

WHITFIELD: OK. It does look like you can hear me. Go ahead. It just looks like the weather has changed since the last time we spoke.

FIELD: Yes, we've been seeing a lot of that over the last few days. I mean, anyone who's been in Buffalo this week has experienced just a lot of everything from that really heavy snow for two days, the sun was out yesterday, the rain today.

This is a gradual warm-up. We do want to let people know that. But time is of the essence because we know that those temperatures are going to get up there in the next couple of days and that's why so many people are trying to do this cleanup work. It's really essential. They're already being told to, you know, clear out their basements in case of flooding, but they're also really focused up on those rooftops.

Some people having a great deal of success clearing the snow off their roofs, but for people who still have a couple feet of it packed on there, they're really worried about this rain making that snowpack heavier and that's where you can see roofs collapse and it's something people around here already experiencing. So they're taking the cleanup really seriously.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

FIELD: When we have this break, we have no rain right now -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Wow. OK. Thank you so much, Alexandra. Appreciate that.

Let's check in with Jennifer Gray, because, you know, Alexandra painting a pretty ominous picture there. I mean, anything can happen. The weather is changing just by the second there. Going from sunny an hour ago to now kind of, you know, overcast.

So that rain that we were talking about, is this like big torrential, you know, downpour, or is this kind of a little misting drizzle that could freeze by the time it hits the ground? What's going on?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, we're not expecting huge amounts of rain, maybe less than an inch, up to an inch, which isn't a lot, but we've got so much snow, it's all going to be melting over the next couple of days. Any additional rain that you add to those roofs, of course, already maxed out with weight from the snow. So anymore weight that you add to it, of course, that is the concern. We are going to see temperatures slowly warming up, and so hopefully,

there'll be a more gradual melt, but we are going to see the -- the melting very quickly by the time we get to Monday because temperatures will be close to 60 degrees. So that's pretty remarkable, considering temperatures were in the teens and 20s just the other day.

So we're looking at some rain as we go through this afternoon into this evening, 11:00, there you go. A little bit of a break on Sunday. By Sunday evening into Monday, another round of rain moving through, and that's going to push off to the north and east. And then cold air coming in behind it. So by the middle part of the week, we could be talking about even more snow, believe it or not.

So less than an inch, up to an inch of rain possibly around the Buffalo area is really what we're dealing with. So there is a flood watch in effect. We're going to have all of that snow melting. We're going to have the rain on top of it, warmer temperatures melting that snow. So that flood watch begins on Sunday evening, goes into effect until Wednesday, believe it or not.

Look at these temperatures. 40 degrees today, 47 tomorrow. 60 degrees on Monday. And then we'll be back into the 30s on Tuesday, with more snow in the mix. And so we're going to be looking at this melting trend over the next couple of days, and then freezing on Tuesday, Fred.

And I also want to mention, there is a severe threat in the south today and tomorrow, including Texas. It moves a little bit more to the east tomorrow, New Orleans, and the panhandle.

But looking at those pictures of the people on their roofs, shoveling the snow off. That just makes me want to close my eyes. That looks incredibly -- it's incredibly dangerous -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: It really is.

GRAY: Yes.

WHITFIELD: I mean, it's already slick and now you're going to stand on the rooftop. But, you know, it's a real necessity, too. I mean, that's the tough situation, they've got to strike a balance on, you know, how to remain safe, and at the same time, the necessity is there, because otherwise that roof could give way.

GRAY: Yes.

WHITFIELD: And all that snow in the house --

GRAY: Just trying to protect their homes at the same time.

WHITFIELD: I know. It's terrible.

GRAY: Just be careful.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much, Jennifer. Appreciate that.

GRAY: All right.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up next, the government wants millions of more airbags recalled. And why the manufacturer is resisting those demands.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: There was a very testy hearing this week on Capitol Hill. Lawmakers wanted to know why there hasn't been a broader recall of faulty airbags. Airbags that have been linked to deaths and injuries across the U.S.

Here's Rene Marsh.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, the airbag manufacturer acknowledged and apologized for the deaths and multiple injuries caused by the very device intended to save lives.

The hearing, in a word, heated. The issue, whether the faulty airbag recall should be expanded to include every state and not be limited to more southern, hot, and humid states. The airbag maker believes humidity actually triggers the defect and appears poised for a fight. That could mean weeks, even months, before cars with potentially dangerous airbags are recalled.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: We now have a live hand grenade in front of a driver and a passenger.

MARSH (voice-over): For nearly three hours, senators grilled an executive from airbag manufacturer, Takata, auto execs, and safety regulators, about defective airbags linked to five deaths.

SEN. DEAN HELLER (R), NEVADA: Do you take full responsibility for those tragic deaths? Does Takata take responsibility?

HIROSHI SHIMIZU, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, TAKATA CORPORATION: We recognize three victims' case, but my understanding, two others are still under investigation.

MARSH: When the faulty Takata airbags deployed, the inflator, which is encased in metal, can rupture, sending shrapnel flying.

Lieutenant Stephanie Erdman is one of the many surviving victims. Metal pierced through the airbag of her 2002 Honda after a minor crash.

LT. STEPHANIE ERDMAN, VICTIM: There was a metallic foreign object which had punctured and fractured my right nasal bone and the tip of the shrapnel -- and the tip of the shrapnel had embedded in my right sinus.

MARSH: Just this week, federal regulators demanded a recall of the affected cars move nationwide. A move the airbag manufacturer is resisting.

SEN. ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Do you agree or disagree with NHTSA's call for a nationwide recall, Mr. Shimizu?

SHIMIZU: Senator, it's hard for me to answer yes or no, so if you allow me --

MARKEY: It is not hard for you to answer yes or no.

MARSH: The issue remained, what did the companies know about the problems with the airbags and when did they know it?

Takata's vice president of quality assurance, surrounded by cameras after, but says nothing. Victims like Stephanie Erdman hope the start of today's Senate probe means being one step closer to getting all vehicles with potentially deadly airbags off the road.

ERDMAN: My vision will never be the same. I will never be the same.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: This Monday, Honda must hand over critical documents and answer questions under oath, as a part of federal safety regulators' own investigation. Takata will have to do the same next month -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Rene Marsh, thanks so much.

Coming up in the next hour, I'll speak with an auto industry analyst and we'll hear why she thinks more should have been done in this case.

And two presidents on immigration reform. Obama and Bush, in their own words. The Republican and the Democrat calling for nearly the same over overhaul. You'll hear their impassioned speeches, back to back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Many Republicans are blasting President Obama's executive order on immigration reform, saying it is simply illegal. The president wants to grant temporary relief from deportation to parents of U.S. citizens and to permanent residents who have been in the country more than five years. He'll also extend the program to undocumented immigrants brought here as children.

The GOP is slamming the president's tactics, but President George W. Bush used similar unilateral action to protect immigrants in similar circumstances. In fact, President Obama and Bush used nearly the exact same language to make the case for reform.

Here are their comments, kind of intertwined.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My fellow Americans --

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I've asked for a few minutes of your time --

OBAMA: To talk with you about --

BUSH: The reform of America's immigration system. We must begin by recognizing the problems with our immigration system.

OBAMA: Our immigration system is broken. And everybody knows it.

BUSH: Once here, illegal immigrants live in the shadows of our society.

OBAMA: Remain in the shadows or risk their families being torn apart.

BUSH: We're a nation of laws and we must enforce our laws.

OBAMA: Even as we are a nation of immigrants, we're also a nation of laws.

BUSH: We're also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways.

OBAMA: For more than 200 years, our tradition of welcoming immigrants from around the world has given us a tremendous advantage over other nations.

BUSH: The United States must secure its borders.

OBAMA: Today, we have more agents and technology deployed to secure our southern border than at any time in our history.

BUSH: Some in this country argue that the solution is to deport every illegal immigrant and that any proposal short of this amounts to amnesty. I disagree.

OBAMA: But even as we focus on deporting criminals, the fact is, millions of immigrants, in every state, of every race and nationality, still live here illegally.

BUSH: Tonight, I want to speak directly to members of the House and the Senate. An immigration reform bill needs to be comprehensive because all elements of this problem must be addressed together or none of them will be solved at all.

OBAMA: Meanwhile, I worked with Congress on a comprehensive fix. And last year, 68 Democrats, Republicans, and independents came together to pass a bipartisan bill in the Senate.

BUSH: America needs to conduct this debate on immigration in a reasoned and respectful tone.

OBAMA: My fellow Americans, we are and always will be a nation of immigrants. We were strangers once, too.

BUSH: We must honor the great American tradition of the melting pot, which has made us one nation out of many peoples.

OBAMA: As my predecessor, President Bush, once put it, they are a part of American life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining us now is CNN commentator and nationally syndicated columnist, Ruben Navarette and Rachel Campos Duffy, spokesman for the Libre Initiative.

Good to see both of you.

RACHEL CAMPOS DUFFY, NATIONAL SPOKESWOMAN, LIBRE INITIATIVE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: So, Rachel, you first. Strikingly similar language, but what's different here? Why is the reception so different for one president versus the other?

DUFFY: Well, what I think is interesting -- well, first of all, the scope is bigger here, but more importantly, again we see that that never fixed the system. And I think what Hispanics like myself, who really do want immigration reform to happen, really want is for this to be done the right way. For it to have a durable solution that deals with all of the problems that have created this broken system.

WHITFIELD: But, similarly, haven't both presidents said, this is a territory fix? This isn't the permanent answer. That is where Congress will have to get along and get something done.

DUFFY: Exactly. Exactly. And --

WHITFIELD: But this is -- this is a challenge that the president is making that this is just a temporary fix because going through the traditional challenge --

(CROSSTALK)

DUFFY: But here's --

WHITFIELD: Channels through Congress, it hasn't worked.

DUFFY: But what's interesting is that the way that the president did this, on the heels of a big win for the Republicans, on doing this extra constitutionally, in the opinion of so many conservatives, is going to make giving that long-term solution, that really comprehensive legislation more difficult. And that's not good for Americans.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: OK. Let's stop right there. Because Ruben is -- and, Ruben, is that the case, that this has only made a difficult road even that much more treacherous? And it's going to be harder for Congress to come about, you know, with the cooperation of the president, to come about a more permanent fix because the president's executive order undermined things? Is that how you see it, Ruben?

RUBEN NAVARETTE, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes, that's -- that's not how I see it. In fact if you pay attention to the immigration debate, as I have now for a long time, written about the issue for 25 years read, it is simply dishonest, disingenuous for the Republicans to blame Barack Obama or this action that he took yesterday, just a couple of days ago, for their unwillingness to tackle immigration reform.

Let me spell it out clearly. The reason Republicans avoid this issue like that plague, it has nothing to do with Barack Obama. They've been doing it long since he ever took office. It's because it divides their constituencies. It feats conservative, business interests that want more labor against nativists in their party that don't want more immigrants. And so they don't want to referee that fight.

It's an ugly fight. And I can't blame them.

WHITFIELD: Right.

NAVARETTE: But it's really dishonest for them to blame Obama and say oh my goodness, we were so close, we were so close to doing something and then you came along. That's nonsense. They were never going to do it.

DUFFY: Let's be clear. There are divisions about immigration reform within the Democratic camp, arguing in Democrats as well as low income African-Americans who were really concerned about it.

NAVARETTE: Correct.

DUFFY: Divisions exist.

NAVARETTE: Correct.

DUFFY: But what's interesting is that we had finally reached a moment where the most powerful members of the House, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, the list goes on, Marco Rubio in the Senate, John McCain have wanted immigration reform and things were moving along.

Yes, there were bumps in the road, especially this summer because of the last executive order that he did for DACA that caused this influx of children at the border this summer. But there has been very much indeed an interest in immigration reform.

And may I also add that a couple of years ago we were -- Republican Senator Marco Rubio was very close to finding a legislative solution to --

WHITFIELD: So then --

DUFFY: -- for the Dreamers.

WHITFIELD: What's the problem?

DUFFY: For the Dreamers.

WHITFIELD: What isn't taking it all the way to the finish line?

DUFFY: Well -- (CROSSTALK)

NAVARETTE: Well, let me just jump in on there if I could.

WHITFIELD: Let her finish that one.

NAVARETTE: Well, let me just jump in. Rachel is wrong about --

DUFFY: And there is a bill to get things done.

NAVARETTE: Rachel is wrong --

WHITFIELD: Let me let Rachel finish.

NAVARETTE: Rachel is wrong about Marco Rubio.

WHITFIELD: And then Ruben -- yes, go ahead, Rachel, finish.

NAVARETTE: Sure.

WHITFIELD: And then, Ruben, you can respond.

DUFFY: Well, what I was trying to say before is that Marco Rubio was close to having some -- getting some movement together for the Dreamer. And for political reasons, which is what we see the president doing in all of these cases. He pulled the rug out from under him and did an executive action.

Again, not giving Hispanics the certainty they need and the durability that they need that comes -- only comes from lawmaking and consensus building on both sides for something this important.

WHITFIELD: OK. OK. Ruben?

NAVARETTE: Yes. So that's a fairy tale. Didn't happen that way. I was privy to those conversations. Before Marco Rubio talked about helping the Dreamers, Kay Bailey Hutchison called me into a meeting and she was talking about helping the Dreamers. That bill got passed off to Marco Rubio.

Nothing that Barack Obama did in June 2012 to help the Dreamers preempted Congress or Marco Rubio from stepping forward with a bill of his own. What did stop him was his own presidential ambitions and the fact that Marco Rubio then walked back from his own bill and -- and went nowhere near it. And then he joined the gang of eight in the Senate and walked back from that as well.

Talk to Lindsay Graham. Talk to John McCain, other Republicans will say Marco Rubio was missing in action. It's a fairytale for Rachel to spin this idea that somehow Republicans are trying to so hard. They've been asleep at the switch.

DUFFY: But you just admitted that -- you just admitted that Lindsey Graham and -- but you just admitted that Lindsey Graham and John McCain wanted to have that happen, two very powerful members of the Senate. The point is this -- NAVARETTE: And Marco Rubio left them hanging. So don't spin it this

way, Rachel.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARETTE: It's a fairytale you're telling.

DUFFY: I understand --

WHITFIELD: So I guess at this point we're not -- no one is going to agree on what has already happened, water under the bridge, but I think people in America is really concerned about what next, what's next after this executive order, what next for Congress trying to come up with a more permanent solution if members of both sides are calling this a broken immigration, you know, system that America has.

So I think, Ruben and Rachel, we're going to have to have you back again. And next time we talk, we are going to have to talk about what is happening next because I think that is really what people want to hear as they look into the crystal ball and hopefully we can do that alongside them.

Ruben Navarette, Rachel Campos Duffy, thanks to both of you, appreciate it. And happy Thanksgiving as we enter the week.

DUFFY: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: All right. Up next, the remarkable story of a mother who traveled to a war zone to rescue her daughter from ISIS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A Dutch mother is now back home with her daughter. But getting her daughter wasn't easy. The mother had to travel to Syria after her daughter married a Dutch jihadi, a man who had gone there to fight for ISIS.

Here is CNN's Isa Soares.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For months Monique lived in a state of constant worry, looking for ways to get her 19-year-old daughter back from the clutches of ISIS in Syria. And then out of the blue her daughter Aicha reached out to her mother, crying for help. And that's when she decided to go on her own last month.

Her daughter wanted a way out from her marriage to a jihadist husband, widely known as Omar Yilmaz, who according to Dutch media is a Dutch jihadist she became infatuated with after seeing him interviewed on television.

Last week she traveled to ISIS controlled Raqqa in Syria, successfully returning with her daughter via Turkey. She's now back home in the Dutch city of Maastricht where her daughter is being questioned. ANNA-MARIE KEMP, LIMBURG PUBLIC PROSECUTORS OFFICE: The daughter is

taken into custody because of suspicion of aiding criminal activities. And the mother, she's not in custody. She's home, I presume.

SOARES: Still, locals seem open to her return.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should definitely let her come back into Holland. Some people say that she shouldn't be allowed back in the Netherlands. But I think that's so harsh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she should not be punished but she should have some counseling because I think somebody indoctrinated her.

SOARES: Monique is not the first parent to take matters into her own hands. In May of last year after a year of searching Dmitri Bontinck traveled to the north of Syria to retrieve his son.

DMITRI BONTINCK, RESCUED FROM SYRIA: They beat me, they almost killed me, they took all my clothes off, they put the cap on me, they hide me because they suspect me, you are CIA. But in the end they believe me and they let me go. And this time later they let my son return home.

SOARES: According to General Intelligence and Security Service of the Netherlands, over the past two years more than 160 Dutch nationals have traveled to Syria and Iraq to join the conflict. But there could be more. Roughly 18 have died there and only 30 have returned home. For many families it is a heartbreaking situation. But there is hope and the realization that getting them back may require them making the most hazardous of journeys.

Isa Soares, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)