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Marchers Across the Nation Demand Change; Senate Passes Short- Term Spending Bill; CIA Paid $80M to 2 Men for Torture Methods; Driver of GM Car Cleared of Felony; The Torture Report's Political Impact; Senate to Vote on Budget Deal
Aired December 13, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks so much for joining me. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you live from New York.
In America's cities today, from San Francisco to Washington, D.C., people took their frustration out on the streets. What we have seen is huge protests, reacting to what they call out-of-control racial injustice in this country.
Protesters are still going on right now here in New York City. Huge crowd gathering at Washington Square Park this afternoon, marching downtown to NYPD headquarters at One Police Plaza. We'll take you live there in just a moment.
Also in Washington, D.C., protesters marching to the U.S. Capitol. Also, the mothers of Michael Brown, Eric Garner and Trayvon Martin were among those who addressed the crowd.
And this is the Bay Area, Oakland, California, and also San Francisco. We have seen thousands of there filling the streets just a short time ago. That banner that they're behind reads "black lives matter."
Alexandra Field is live where she has been all day in Manhattan, following these protests.
How is it looking this evening?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Poppy. Actually, the last of the protesters beginning to disband now. There were possibly tens of thousands by some estimates who took to the streets this afternoon and a whole lot of police officers who are out here, as well.
You can see some of them still on that corner there. They were the ones who are lining this route because this crowd walked all the way from Washington Square Park. They went north up to 32nd Street. They turned around and they came down to Lower Manhattan to police headquarters.
So, as these people were marching, as they were demonstrating, as they were calling for -- to stop what they call police violence, you had so many NYPD officers all along these routes out on Lower Manhattan, a lot of their patrol cars out here now. We are hearing from officials that one patrol car was damaged, that appears to have been when a protester and some kind of splinter group that had moved away from the main demonstration threw something at the car. Otherwise, everything that we saw, everything we heard to this point, is that this demonstration remains peaceful.
This was a carefully choreographed, well-organized demonstration. It had been planned for more than a week with a lot of young activists, especially, getting online, bringing their groups together, and trying to form this coalition where they could really use their combined voices to raise awareness for the problems that they perceive here. The injustices that they feel they want to correct.
And we know that these marches in the last couple days and weeks have come after two grand juries decided not to indict officers who were involved in the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner here in New York City. It was this sense of outrage that we have spent so much time talking about, Poppy, where people came out today and they really wanted to be heard but wanted to do it in an organized way and that's why this such a choreographed and planned event which culminated at One Police Plaza quite significantly.
HARLOW: Yes, very symbolic. But, Alex, you know, I covered the Occupy movement very closely down there in Lower Manhattan, which went on for months. And then, you know, a lot of people are saying how does it continue, right? We saw the Occupy movement somewhat, at least, the front-facing part of it die off.
Is there a sense that this will stay front and center?
FIELD: OK, so this is the trouble with these kinds of movements. If you talk to people who were out here today, they will tell you they weren't here for a march, they were here for a movement.
People start to look at this and say what is your platform, what are you asking for, is there something concrete, is there tangible change or reform you're looking for? And when you do speak to individuals who are out here carrying signs and doing the chanting and doing the demonstrating, they can tick off for you some of the reforms that they would like to see.
For example, they said that they want to see officers being publicly named within 48 hours of a police-involved shooting. But, look, you've got maybe tens of thousands of people, so they different ideas. What they do seem to agree on right now is the idea that this should move forward in some way. These sentiments that they feel this concern they have for the way that police and communities interact, something productive should come from this.
So, how does this move forward? That was one of the things they talked about today before the march started. You have the organizers of these various activism groups getting together in Washington Square Park to talk how they could use their resources together to try and continue the momentum that we've seen launched in light of these two grand jury decisions.
HARLOW: All right, Alex, thanks so much for covering it all day long. I know it's been quite a long and busy day in New York. Thanks so much.
Well, marchers also in the nation's capital today heard from relatives of four unarmed black men who died by police -- by bullets or by police force. Relatives of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner and others filled the podium in Washington, all say they want justice. They don't feel like they have gotten justice for the death of their loved ones.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAMARIA RICE, TAMIR RICE'S MOTHER: Hey, what's up, don't shoot. I can't breathe! Please, don't shoot. I want to grow up too.
SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN'S MOTHER: It hurts me to my heart to know that so many men are getting away with shooting and killing our young people, and not being held accountable for it.
LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: Washington -- thank you. Wow. What a sea of people. If they don't see this and make a change, then I don't know what we've got to do.
GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: And, you know, our sons, you know, they may not be here in body, but they're here with us in each and every one of you. You all brought them here today. OK?
ESA GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S WIFE: My husband was a quiet man. But he is making a lot of noise right now. And he's -- his voice will be heard.
RICE: My son was 12 years old. Just a baby, a baby, my baby, the youngest out of four.
FULTON: People don't quite get it. They don't quite understand. They want to talk about we're not together.
Take a look around. We are together. We are united.
(CHANTING)
CARR: When we go home today, we hope that they have heard our voices, they yield to our commands, because no justice, no peace.
FULTON: I don't have to tell not one single African-American about racial profiling, because you guys know. So, what I challenge you to do is talk to somebody that does not know. Talk to somebody and make somebody else knowledgeable, and make somebody else aware, and educate somebody else about what you are going through, because as long as we just talk to ourselves, we're going to stay in our same circles. And we've got to step out of that circle, and we've got to make positive change.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: All right. Let me bring in CNN political commentator, Tara Setmayer.
Thanks for being here.
We were having a discussion about this before the program. You look at this through the lens of a few things. You come from a law enforcement family. You're an African-American woman. And you know, you say, "That does not define how I look at this. I am an American first."
TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's true. I mean, I'm looking at this -- there are enough people out there that can look at this through a racial prism and emotionally, and there's plenty of people to do that. I'm looking at this from the perspective of the average American, and looking and seeing, OK, where can we come together on fixing this problem, if this is, in fact, a problem.
Many people perceive this, feel this, it's real for them in their communities. Whether the numbers bear it out or not, this is a real feeling for folks. So, OK, where can we find common ground?
I think that, you know, people have a right to protest. Obviously, this is something that's been percolating for a while. But I think there's a confluence of certain things that are -- they're conflating things, and we need to look at it layer by layer by layer.
HARLOW: Who is they? Who is conflating things?
SETMAYER: I think a lot of the activists, some of the folks no have been ginning up these emotions here, from the Al Sharptons, all the way down to the media. I mean, this is good for media.
HARLOW: This is good for media, you're saying in ratings numbers. Why?
SETMAYER: Yes, yes. The more -- when there is conflict, it's good ratings.
HARLOW: But I will say, living in New York City for the last 12 years, what I saw today was pretty extraordinary, Fifth Avenue shutdown.
SETMAYER: Sure.
HARLOW: Broadway shut down. Marchers are very peaceful. That is what makes this country great, peaceful protests.
SETMAYER: Peaceful protests is the key. Yes.
HARLOW: But you said to me, you think these are kind of overblown.
SETMAYER: I think -- I'm looking at it like this. You know, the whole hashtag activism of "black lives matter", and I get that. But it's hard for me to juxtapose this issue where, as tragic as these deaths are, these are outliers. The overwhelming majority of police officers and interactions with police and citizens are positive ones, and don't end up this way in the country. HARLOW: But these are a series --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: But wait a minute. But the point here is that these are outliers. When you have over 6,000 black murders in one year, and 93 percent of it is black on black, where is the outrage there? It's like selective black lives matter. Where is the -- where are the marches in the streets where the kids are getting gunned down and the innocent kids in Chicago --
HARLOW: No, wait -- I will tell you. We have seen that. We have seen the attorney general.
SETMAYER: Not at this level.
HARLOW: We have seen the attorney general go time and time again to Chicago. I spent a lot of time in Chicago reporting on gang violence.
SETMAYER: Not at this level.
HARLOW: OK.
SETMAYER: That's the difference. I would love to see these protests.
HARLOW: But --
SETMAYER: If we really want to talk about making a difference, OK, there is police brutality, we can talk about that. We can work locally in communities and have community discussions about where is that police brutality and that's across racial lines -- talk about that.
But we want to talk about criminality and what leads to some of these -- these interactions. Let's have that honest discussion.
HARLOW: So more protests, say, in Chicago, for example, right? More protests for black on black crimes, you're saying, murder/violence.
SETMAYER: Yes. Let's talk about the root causes of these things, and change what's going on in the community. Let's talk about what's going on culturally.
You know, there are mixed messages. We're talking about everyone is outraged over we're talking about bias and racial profiling, and, you know, prejudice and -- OK, but then there's mixed messages in the black community when you celebrate gangster culture.
HARLOW: Wait --
SETMAYER: You turn on BET and you celebrate these things, and then you wonder why people have certain --
HARLOW: Who is celebrating gangster culture?
SETMAYER: Turn on the radio. Turn on Black Urban Radio. Have you listened to what's going on in music today? They talk about, you know -- they call women "bitches", they talk about glorify being in jail.
HARLOW: Yes.
SETMAYER: Look at -- I mean, that -- they glorify gangster prison culture. And so, that kind of stuff leads to people not having respect for authority, leads to the images that white America sees. They go -- well, how come it's OK for your own to celebrate this and buy this music. But then you turn around and wonder why certain people have opinions.
HARLOW: You bring up white America.
SETMAYER: Yes.
HARLOW: But then you say to me, I'm an American first.
SETMAYER: Right.
HARLOW: Should we be talking about it in those terms?
SETMAYER: No, but these are the terms -- these are the terms that we have been forced to talk to them in now. It's been forced to look through a racial prism now. I didn't choose the way this is being framed. This is the way -- this is what we have been thrust into now.
HARLOW: I want to get your reaction to this photo, if we can pull it up. What we have here is a photo of a police officer at a St. Louis City Hall dressed in riot gear, wearing Wilson's name badge on his front arm in front of protesters. What's your reaction to that?
SETMAYER: I think that, obviously, it's controversial. I understand the frustration of police officers, too, because like I said, the overwhelming majority of them are good, decent people who serve and protect with honor every day.
Probably not appropriate at this point on the job. Just like, you know, you -- you have a job to do, and you don't really want to take sides while you're on the job. If you're off the job, he's free to do whatever he likes. But I think that probably while he's working as a public servant, that was not appropriate.
HARLOW: We've got to wrap-up. But I find it interesting, you said, have you ever looked at my Twitter feed, and all of the heat you get for talking about this as a black woman.
SETMAYER: Oh, yes. The most vile, disgusting insults at me, because I'm choosing to look at this -- to remove the racial emotion and looking at it from a more pragmatic perspective, it's -- it's disheartening. But it's -- I'm undeterred. You know, people --
HARLOW: Stand your ground.
SETMAYER: Absolutely. I'm unapologetic for it, and people are going to have their opinions. But I think that the way we frame these discussions, I think there are legitimate layers of each part of this discussion to have, but it's also a two-way street. And that we shouldn't try to bully people into silence and bully that descent into silence, because that's very un-America.
HARLOW: Tara Setmayer, always a pleasure to have you on.
SETMAYER: Thank you.
HARLOW: Thanks for coming in tonight.
SETMAYER: Anytime.
HARLOW: All right. Coming up next, the Senate reaching a short-term deal to keep the government funded and running the clock, though, as always is ticking. We're going to tell you when the clock runs out, next.
Also this, we're getting a look behind the curtains of the CIA in a way like never before. Where? From this controversial so-called torture report released by the Senate. Coming up, details on two men who made millions off designing and implementing that program for the agency.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Right now, the Senate is still working on trying to strike a deal to fund a long-term bill to keep the government running. It did make a little bit of progress today, agreeing on a short-term spending bill. Problem is that short-term deal runs out on Wednesday.
If the Senate cannot agree on a larger spending bill to send the president by then, the government will shut down again. That is not likely. But what's going on in Washington?
Erin McPike joins us with more from the White House.
Hi, Erin.
What do you think? Are we going to get the deal we need tonight?
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, the votes are there, certainly. It's a matter of procedure. And what the deal would have to entail is that Senator Mike Lee of Utah and Senator Ted Cruz of Texas would have to be appeased.
But there was some talk an hour or so ago that they would be able to reach some deal tonight, so that President Obama could sign that $1.1 trillion bill that would fund the government through September 30th either tonight, early tomorrow. It looks at this point like there will still be this procedural vote at 1:00 a.m. that will kick the debate forward, and then there will be a vote on final passage sometime early on Monday.
Again, there is not going to be a government shutdown tonight, because they have passed that short term funding message that funds the government through Wednesday. But we will see a bill pass at some point, most likely on Monday, could be a deal tonight, but at this point, we're really looking now at Monday morning, Poppy. HARLOW: But is there -- after the disaster that the last government
shutdown was, and a lot of the blame falling on the Republicans, is there any chance -- you know, and a lost people pointing their fingers at the Republicans -- is there any chance that it happens again, Erin? Or is this just a matter of a bit of delay, but the government is not going to shut down?
MCPIKE: Poppy, at this point, it is very much just a delay. And we have heard from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell today. He said he was blindsided by Ted Cruz and Mike Lee last night, because it's very unusual once the leaders of the two parties in the Senate reach an agreement that they're going to move forward on a procedure that a rank-and-file sort of back bench -- I don't know that we would call Mike Lee and Ted Cruz back-benchers because they're so high-profile, but they are junior rank-and-file members.
And it did blindside McConnell that they went ahead and did this. But we're not going to see a government shutdown at this point. So many Republicans want to avoid that. Democrats want to avoid that, as well.
We heard a little bit of a rumbling earlier in the week from Elizabeth Warren, because she was very unhappy with this bill, as well, because it rolls back some regulations on Wall Street.
HARLOW: Right.
MCPIKE: But she made her point. She is not going to stand in the way of it either. But we're not looking at a government shutdown at this point, Poppy.
HARLOW: But there's still politics involved, right, even if they get that $1.1 trillion bill passed, it's only going to fund the Department of Homeland Security through February, because that's the department that would enforce President Obama's executive action on immigration. So, we could be ahead for a big fight on that.
Erin, we'll come back to you later in the hour. Thank you for the update from the White House.
Also this: two contractors with little to no experience at all in interrogating detainees. Well, guess what? They were tasked by the CIA to run its detainee interrogation program. The American people learned the gruesome details of that this week. But did you know those two men made millions off the agency, $81 million, to be exact? The details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Well, the Senate report on CIA and torture reveals pretty shocking details about two men who created these EITs or enhanced interrogation techniques. The CIA contracted with two psychologists who develop, to operate and assess its interrogation operations. But neither of those men has experience as an interrogator or in-depth knowledge of al Qaeda. Still, the CIA offered them a $180 million contract for that job and
ended up paying them more than $80 million before the contract was cancelled.
Our Chris Frates has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMES MITCHELL, RETIRED U.S. AIR FORCE PSYCHOLOGIST: I think it's a partisan pile of crap. It's a -- an attempt to smear the men and women of the CIA, as the Democrats leave their position of authority.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That's James Mitchell, who has been tied to the secret interrogation program by several publications in a 2008 Senate report. Mitchell is one of two psychologists slammed in a report for developing the interrogation program.
But it's the details that are jaw-dropping. Mitchell and his partner are believed to have landed a $180 million contract with the government, despite the fact that neither man had specialized knowledge of al Qaeda, a background in counterterrorism, or any relevant cultural or linguistic expertise. Again, $180 million.
The CIA disputed that characterization, saying that, "We believe their expertise was so unique, we would have been derelict had we not sought them out."
Mitchell says he's been misrepresented in the press.
MITCHELL: Well, because I think people are routinely distorting my credentials and qualifications.
FRATES: But it's exactly those credentials that are being called into question. The two psychologists worked in the military's sere program, but they were given wide latitude to develop and carry out some of the most brutal interrogation methods, even though they had no experience in actual interrogations, according to the report. They formed a company, and actually carried out the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohamed, among other significant detainees, pocketed $81 million before their contract was dissolved in 2009.
To some, the details are evidence of a desperate administration willing to try anything, even people with questionable experience.
MITCHELL: I'm perfectly willing to be responsible for everything that I've done. I don't want to be responsible for anything that I haven't done. And the way the information has been presented so far, rightly or wrongly, right -- it's just the press that's identified me as this person. I'm getting -- I'm getting all of the blame and all of the credit, regardless of whether I did or not.
And my preference would be to talk about what actually happened.
FRATES: Chris Frates, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: All right. Chris, thank you for that report.
Joining me now to discuss, "Daily Beast" special correspondent, Michael Daly, who wrote an absolutely fascinating article. The title of your article, "The luxury homes that torture and your tax dollars built".
Where do I start? What do you make of the CIA saying they would be derelict had they not sought out these two psychologists to run the program?
MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: Unless, I misread the report, it was more they sought out the CIA. I think they originally brought in -- again, this is just from my reading of the report. They originally brought in one of the gentlemen, because they ran across a manual in England, al Qaeda manual that supposedly described how to resist interrogation. Most people who read that thought was kind of a comic book little thing.
But they asked him I think in the panic of the moment, after 9/11, they asked this one psychologist to examine this. And give his opinion, because he had been in an Air Force program.
HARLOW: Right.
DALY: And it went from there.
But if you read the report, I think they were the ones who said, well, you know, we can do this for you.
HARLOW: Also, the money that was paid -- well, I should note here, a statement you include in your report coming from these two men, one of whom you just heard from, said we are proud of the work we have done for our country, standing by it. The money to them, completely tax- free, and they have this indemnification clause.
DALY: As I understand it, and in the report it says that in addition to the $81 million, their firm received, on top of that, they individually received $1 million for one and $1.5 for the other. On top of that, there is an indemnification that lasts until I think 2021, where they're covered any legal costs they incur if anybody goes after them or any penalties they may incur from any lawsuits. They're pretty much -- you know, they can't be touched legally, on several (INAUDIBLE)
HARLOW: What is -- I mean, bigger picture. This is done. And this is over. And there is nothing that can be done, that taxpayer money has been spent. This program has been opened and closed.
But what do you think can be learned about the transparency of CIA operating processes and the chain of command internally? Obviously, the public shouldn't know who they are hiring at this time they are doing it, but what needs to change?
DALY: Well, I think what needs to change is -- and I'm hoping the CIA is doing this while they're kind of running defense. I hope they're also looking at this and saying how did this happen? How did we end up here? What is the process by which we ended up in this situation?
And that's why -- I mean, it's like a plane crash. This seems to me like a train wreck or a plain crash, and the first thing you want to do is how it happened. And the reason you want to know how it happened is that therefore you don't want it to happen again.
HARLOW: At the same time, I do think it's important to point out that many people say, look, this is vilifying the CIA, vilifying people that risk their lives to protect us. To save --
DALY: It's not vilifying -- I'm sorry.
HARLOW: To save our lives. Do you think there is any credit to that?
DALY: I think the mistake is to say the CIA did this. The point is, there are certain people in the CIA who did this. There are certain people in the CIA who approved this.
HARLOW: And as Bob Baer, the CIA operative on our program said, you know, his friends, many of them in the program, objected to it.
DALY: Absolutely. So you've got to believe that almost everybody -- no one goes -- these guys might have gotten rich but people go into the CIA, they don't go in there to get rich. That's not -- you know, they'll become investment bankers if they want to be rich. These are people who want to serve their country.
HARLOW: Yes, absolutely. It is a fascinating report. Again, go to "The Daily Beast" to read "The luxury homes that torture and your tax dollars built".
Michael Daly, thanks for coming in as always. We appreciate it.
Coming up next on the program, after a decade of guilt, a Texas court clears a young woman's name, ruling that General Motors' defective ignition switch is to blame for her boyfriend's death in a crash, not her, as they thought for a decade. The details for her story, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Welcome back, I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.
Recently we brought you the story of Candice Anderson. She's a young woman from Texas who had been racked with guilt for decades, believing that she was responsible for her boyfriend's death back in 2004. He was killed when her car crashed into a tree. He was sitting in the passenger seat. She ended up pleading guilty to criminal negligent homicide, and that made her a convicted felon.
This year, though, GM recalled her car and millions more for an ignition switch defect that so far has been tied to 38 deaths, with that number expected to rise. And it came out that GM knew about the defect years earlier while Anderson was pleading guilty but didn't tell her. After our first report, a judge agreed to hear her appeal. Now her
conviction has been overturned. Her record cleared.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW (on camera): Do you feel free now?
CANDICE ANDERSON, DRIVER OF RECALLED GM CAR, CLEARED OF FELONY: I do. I feel like a big weight has been lifted off me. I can walk taller.
HARLOW (voice-over): After a decade of agony, Candice Anderson is finally free.
(On camera): People in this town called you a murderer for a decade.
ANDERSON: It's a hard thing to get past.
HARLOW (voice-over): Free from living a nightmare.
ANDERSON: I feel like I was robbed from a part of my life, a 10-year -- I mean, 10 years is a decade. It's a long time. I feel robbed of part of my youth, where things was supposed to be fun. And making memories, you know, having a good friend to share it with. I just feel I was robbed of that.
HARLOW: It started with a fatal car crash. Candice was behind the wheel when her brand-new Saturn Ion slammed into a tree on this east Texas country road in 2004.
ANDERSON: This one right here.
HARLOW (on camera): This is the tree you hit.
ANDERSON: Mm-hmm.
HARLOW (voice-over): Her boyfriend, Mike Erickson, was in the passenger seat. He was Candice's first love.
ANDERSON: I was through the windshield on the hood of the car. And then his face was face-down in my lap.
HARLOW: The father of two young girls, Michael was instantly killed. Candice still bears the scars of that day. Her liver lacerated, nearly all of her ribs broken.
(On camera): Do you ever had moments when you think why did I survive?
ANDERSON: Oh, yes. I felt that way the whole 10 years.
HARLOW (voice-over): The police report says neither Candice nor Michael was wearing a seatbelt. The airbags did not deploy. After the crash, Xanax was found in Candice's system. She was not prescribed the drug, but says she took one pill the night before.
ANDERSON: Do I think I was intoxicated that day? No. I wasn't intoxicated.
HARLOW: But she was indicted on a felony charge of intoxication manslaughter. She pleaded guilty to criminal negligent homicide and was sentenced to five years probation and fined. She lived each day as a felon.
(On camera): You could have gone to jail for 20 years.
ANDERSON: I think about that all the time. I really do.
HARLOW (voice-over): But there is now proof that for a decade, General Motors knew about a deadly defect in Candice's car and millions more, but kept it a secret. Faulty ignition switches, causing the engine to stop suddenly while driving, disabling the airbags. And as Candice was prosecuted, GM did nothing to help her. In fact, in 2007, this same year Candice pleaded guilty, GM did their own internal investigation of her crash, calling it unusual, and noted the airbags should have deployed.
ANDERSON: I'm fighting for my justice. I want vindication. I want them to say, you know -- I want people to know that it was the car and it wasn't me.
HARLOW (on camera): In this courthouse, the same one where she pleaded guilty to criminal negligent homicide, Candice Anderson finally got her justice. The judge placing the blame squarely on General Motors.
(Voice-over): Writing in the court opinion, "While Miss Anderson pled guilty to a crime for which she was not at fault, GM had evidence that would have demonstrated her actual innocence and identified the true culprit and cause of the accident, General Motors."
Candice's conviction overturned, she is now acquitted of any fault in the crash that killed Michael.
(On camera): What would Michael say?
ANDERSON: I pictured him rooting us, you know, in the courtroom, and, you know, just -- you know, it's a good feeling to think that he's, you know, had a lot to do with this.
HARLOW (voice-over): GM would not comment on the judge's opinion, but for the first time in this letter to Candice's attorney, General Motors admits it may be to blame, writing, "GM has determined that the crash involving Miss Anderson is one in which the recall condition may have caused or contributed to the frontal airbag non-deployment in the accident."
(On camera): Is it enough?
ANDERSON: No, I don't think it's enough. You know, I think they should have been there that day to support me, to put in some words before the judge also. I really do.
HARLOW: Have you directly, Candice, heard from General Motors? ANDERSON: Never. At this point --
HARLOW: Still.
ANDERSON: At this point, I don't think I ever will.
HARLOW (voice-over): So why didn't GM reach out to Candice Anderson when it investigated her crash years ago? We asked GM CEO Mary Barra.
(On camera): Why didn't GM ever reach out to her?
MARY BARRA, CEO, GENERAL MOTORS: As you look at the Valukas report documents that there were opportunities where in this specific situation, a series of mistakes were made over a long period of time. And that's why we've taken some of the extraordinary steps --
HARLOW: Do you think -- looking back, do you think someone at GM should have -- when they saw this happen and there was an internal investigation, reached out to Candice Anderson?
BARRA: Again, Poppy, as you look across this, we have, you know -- making the right changes that we need to make with the learnings that we've had from the Valukas report, we're working to make sure we're the industry leaders in safety as we move forward and we've taken steps to do the right thing.
HARLOW (voice-over): GM is fixing its defective cars and has apologized to victims and their families.
BARRA: I am deeply sorry.
HARLOW (on camera): When you come back to the crash site now, being vindicated, knowing this wasn't your fault, what do you think?
ANDERSON: The guilt is definitely lifted. But what happened and the tragedy, of course, is still there. The pain is still real.
HARLOW (voice-over): And nothing will bring Michael back.
For the past 10 years, Michael's mother, Rhonda, couldn't bring herself to lay a headstone for her son. Now she finally has.
RHONDA ERICKSON, VICTIM'S MOTHER: It was like the story of David and Goliath, where we took a little sling shot, and we threw a rock at a giant. And we won. That's how I felt. That it was all worth it and we weren't scared. And we stood up, and we got what we wanted.
HARLOW (on camera): Vindication.
ERICKSON: Right.
HARLOW (voice-over): Their fight may be over, but the Department of Justice investigation into General Motors continues.
ANDERSON: There's someone within General Motors that should be held responsible. HARLOW (on camera): Are you saying that you think individuals at
General Motors should stand trial?
ANDERSON: Yes, I do. They didn't have a problem sitting by while I was charged and convicted.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: And a lot of people have been asking us since this report, will Candice Anderson sue General Motors? The answer is no. Because she can't. She and Rhonda Erickson, the mother of the young man who died in that crash, agreed to take money from the General Motors' Victim Compensation Fund. As a result, they have to give up their right to sue General Motors over this crash ever in the future.
Coming up next on the program, a congressional report has given the world a look inside the super secret CIA. The report details brutal tactics used to interrogate detainees overseas. But some lawmakers say it is unfair and it is inaccurate. The details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: While it's impossible to separate the Senate report on the CIA and torture from the intensive partisan atmosphere that exist in Washington, even though the Senate Intelligence Committee is thought to be among the least partisan committees on Capitol Hill.
Let me bring in David Gergen, former White House adviser and CNN senior political analyst.
Thanks for being with me, David. Appreciate it.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you, Poppy. It's good to see you again.
HARLOW: So critics of the report, and there are many that applaud its release and many that criticize it, say, look, it's not unfair. This was written by the Democratic majority, this was released weeks before the Democrats lose control.
Let me read you something from a former Democratic senator, Bob Kerry, he wrote this in "USA Today," writing, "I do not need to read the report to know that the Democratic staff alone wrote it. The Republicans checked out early when they determined that their counterparts really started out with the premise that the CIA was guilty and then worked to prove it."
That's coming from a Democrat. What do you make of that?
GERGEN: Well, that's interesting. You know, we do have people, various people who are sort of crossing unexpectedly into the other territory. John McCain --
HARLOW: Right.
GERGEN: A Republican, who speaks with a lot of credibility, as you know, because he was in prison and tortured in many ways, as a POW during the Vietnam war. He came out for the Senate Intelligence Committee report. But I do think that we're going to see that the way the press treated it initially, gave it great credibility and I think a lot of Americans were horrified by what they read. And now they're hearing rebuttal, especially from John Brennan, the head of the CIA, which makes -- I think most Americans will still condemn torture or worry that this happened.
But I think they're going to be a lot more understanding, if not sympathetic, toward those agents.
HARLOW: Right.
GERGEN: Who were trying to protect the country from more terrorism.
HARLOW: However, when you listen to Brennan's, what, 45-minute unprecedented press conference at the CIA this week, he never used the word "torture." He did say some of it was abhorrent. But -- what he didn't do is he didn't say that this saved lives, which is something Bob Baer, our former CIA operative, says a lot of his counterparts at the CIA wanted to hear.
GERGEN: Well, he did say, and made a very important distinction, that the Senate Intelligence Committee disagrees with. But he did say that the CIA agents and contractors got valuable information from detainees, from prisoners, after they had been treated harshly. And -- but he said, look, we can't say whether they might have given the same information had they not been treated harshly. It's just unknowable. That's an important distinction.
He is saying, you can't say one caused the other. But they are correlated. In other words, they often -- so if you're a CIA agent out in the field and you see, look, you get information from people who have been waterboarded, we may not be able to prove its causation, but there is a correlation. That makes what they did a lot more sort of -- understandable, if not justifiable.
Torture is a bad thing, but what's important, and I think what John Brennan did very credibly for the administration -- a Democratic administration, a Democratic administration disagreeing with the Democrats and the Senate Intelligence Committee, was to put it in more perspective to say that yes, obviously with some of our people went over the line. But remember, the vast majority of the CIA agents did not go over the line. And indeed --
HARLOW: Right.
GERGEN: You know, I think we have been led -- I think if you hadn't been watching this carefully, you would have thought there would be massive numbers who have had been somehow tortured or waterboarded. It turns out the disagreement is over whether there were three or whether there were more -- more than three.
HARLOW: Right.
GERGEN: That will strike most Americans as a lot. HARLOW: Yes.
GERGEN: How big a deal is this?
HARLOW: Stick with me, David Gergen, a lot more to talk about. Quick break. We'll be back on the other side.
GERGEN: Sure. OK, thanks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: We're back talking about the Senate report on CIA interrogation tactics with former White House adviser David Gergen.
David, let me begin with this. Interesting details to all of this. John Brennan heads the CIA. President Obama meeting before this comes out, meeting before this historic press conference at the CIA to really get on the same page.
GERGEN: Sure. Well, as one would expect, John Brennan brought over a draft of what he was going to say. Made sure the president had a chance to read it. Then probably tweak it here and there. There are some reports that that's where the distinction between the information being -- coming after waterboarding. But it's unknowable whether it might have come otherwise, that that's where that distinction was sharpened up.
President Obama, of course, famously a constitutional lawyer, that's the kind of distinctions lawyers like to make. I would point out that John Brennan is at the CIA because he worked closely with President Obama in the White House.
HARLOW: Sure.
GERGEN: And the president came to trust him. And put him in the CIA because it's such a sensitive position. So that's why I think the John Brennan report, you know, frankly deserves as much credibility in broad strokes as does the Senate Intelligence Committee. I think in order to understand reality you would (INAUDIBLE). But we have the two together and try to figure out, OK, what do they agree on? What do they disagree on?
HARLOW: And it's interesting, Brennan as Obama's sort of top counterterrorism adviser back in 2009, saying things like our interrogation methods, quote, "led us astray from our ideals as a nation," that's coming through the lens of a man who had said those words before.
Quickly, about the president, Brennan is the one speaking on this. Do you think that we should hear more from President Obama on this? Is this a leadership opportunity for him?
GERGEN: I think that there has to be come a time when the president puts a period at the end of the sentence. You know, the nation -- it may well be moving on. I think it's striking, these demonstrations that are out in city after city across the nation this weekend are not about the CIA report. They're about race.
HARLOW: Yes.
GERGEN: They're about Ferguson and what happened after. It is clear that for most Americans, for Americans, that's a lot more important right now than -- is the CIA controversy. And it also suggests that the press is going to start moving on as the demonstrations continue. And that what John Brennan hoped, what the administration hoped, is that this controversy would not have many legs. It would be a serious, a very serious issue. And I think both sides agree that torture is wrong.
But there's a question of perspective in what you -- how you respond to it. Was it a massive failure by brutal agency? Or was it something that happened, you know, in the urgency of war? And some people went over a line and what is often a very brutal, unpredictable and very emotional time when people are killing each other. Things happen that are very brutal.
HARLOW: They do, but it is an interesting point. That the thousands of people across the country today not protesting against this, protesting with the message black lives matter.
David Gergen, stay with me because we have just heard from Senator Harry Reid announcing on the Senate floor there will be a Senate vote tonight on a $1.1 trillion deal to keep this government running. The details after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: All right, this just in to CNN. The Senate will vote on a budget deal tonight. Former White House advisor David Gergen joins me but first, let me go straight to White House correspondent Erin Pike.
All right. So this is going to happen tonight -- Erin.
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, it is. And Senate majority leader Harry Reid just announced it on the Senate floor that they have reached a deal. Now they have a number of other procedural votes to get through. Sometimes these Senate rules can take a long time. But it's possible that they may move it through in an expedited fashion. So they will have to have a procedural vote first to move ahead with this debate, close it off very quickly, and then vote on final passage.
As we talked about earlier today, the votes are there to pass this bill. President Obama and the White House has signaled that they will sign it likely tonight. So, in addition to the short term funding bill that they already passed this afternoon that will keep the government funded until Wednesday, this new bill, this vote tonight, will ensure that $1.1 trillion that funds the government through September 30th is in place tonight.
HARLOW: Right. Erin McPike, thank you so much.
David Gergen, to you for some analysis. Former White House adviser, CNN senior political analysis, still, though, not a done deal because they may take certain things out that might send this back to the House?
GERGEN: Well, we'll have to wait and see. There are two big questions, I think, Poppy, that's around this. First of all, as a breakthrough to get the bill from the president's point of view. And that is because it does keep the government running through September, as we just heard, of next year. That means we won't have some big financial crisis coming out of Washington. That's good for the economy. So and this is a victory for the president.
Here are the two questions that are outstanding. Have they changed the House bill? They stripped out of it the provision that Elizabeth Warren and Nancy Pelosi, the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, is so angry about, which weakens the deregulation or the regulation of banks under Dodd-Frank. And we don't know that. If they strip that provision out, I do think it has to go back to the House so we can have some more tug of war here.
The other question, Poppy, is this. And that is there are a number of nominees that Harry Reid thought he could get a vote on before they went -- before the Senate went home. One of them is very importantly the U.S. Surgeon General, Vivek Murphy, a big controversy surrounding that because the NRA has opposed him and others in the medical field are -- I think he's a terrific candidate.
But if they vote on a budget bill tonight, do they go home and don't vote on these nominations, in which case his nomination would very likely die? And other nominations will die. So there are a couple of questions, still, to be resolved here in the next few hours. But this is a breakthrough for the economy and for the president.
HARLOW: Is there also -- do you think this is a -- just an example of lesson learned from last time, right? Just the pain that went through, the negative headlines of really bad PR for shutting the government down last time. Is this lesson learned? Because we still came up to the wire and they still had to pass a short-term deal.
GERGEN: I think there are some lessons learned. Of course, the interpretation overall coming out of Capitol Hill is the last few days, all the fights within the Democratic Party and, indeed, some within the Republican but mostly Democratic. And how some Democrats are breaking away from the president has suggested the next two years are going to be very uncertain, very unpredictable. But at least on this important issue, funding of the government to keep it open through next fall, almost a year, that's important.
HARLOW: Yes. It is a very good thing for all American people to see our government working the way it should. We'll be watching very closely. Updates all night for you on CNN and CNN.com as the Senate gets ready to vote on this $1.1 trillion bill.
David Gergen, Erin McPike, thank you both. We appreciate it.
Coming up next, all year, we have been introducing you to the 10 people who are changing the world every day. They are our CNN Heroes. Our special star-studded tribute to them is next.
Thanks so much for joining me tonight. I'm Poppy Harlow. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
