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Teens Joining ISIS; IRS Potential Criminal Activity; FCC Rules in Favor of Net Neutrality; Vladimir Putin Ridin' Wild

Aired February 27, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AHMED SHIHAB-ELDIN, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: I think that's the right question to be asking, and a lot of people in Canada are rightfully asking that question. There are concerns around exactly how young people who travel to Turkey, who travel to Syria, are expressing interest in joining the Islamic State are radicalized, if you will. This has become a buzz word. And I think, you know, the broader question is, as we look at these specific cases, it's tough to find a pattern. I think that's what has people kind of asking this question, how is ISIS able to be so effective.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, and one of -- one of the ways that some in America think students are sort of brainwashed are by their professors.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right, by their professors, by social media, by people in the community that are tapping into, you know, people who are vulnerable. But for as much as that's true, I think, you know, it over emphasizes the role of social media in actually driving recruitment. I think there are other aspects of this that aren't often discussed. For example, you know, this cycle of violence, the fact that this is often perceived to be about injustice for these young people who may very well be alienated or discriminated in their community and so, therefore, are vulnerable. But a lot of this can be about moral outrage. It can be about their own personal life circumstances. And I think that if we focus on that, that maybe it will be a more constructive conversation looking into --

COSTELLO: Well, here's the thing, the president of this community college in Canada says, look, there is no profile.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right.

COSTELLO: It's not like they wear a sign that says, I'm going to go to Syria and fight with ISIS. It's very hard to figure out who's been radicalized and who's not.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right. And where in the process is the radicalization actually going to take someone from perhaps tweeting about ISIS sympathetically or, you know, retweeting some of these horrific beheading videos and actually getting on a plane and trying to go there, as we saw with those three suspects earlier, you know, just the other day.

You know, what I'm -- what I'm trying to get at is, a lot of this is about revenge. Whether or not revenge is something that we actually agree with, whether it makes sense, in the sense that there is a lot of recruitment happening in the region amongst, you know, Muslims themselves who are choosing to join ISIS because of this perception that, for better or worse, the way this has been framed since 9/11 is as a clash of civilizations, Islam versus the west. And, you know, I think it would serve us well to look into those avenues and not just these kind of oversimplifications of, oh, it must be because ISIS is sophisticated on social media because that has also been, you know, held in contention. How sophisticated are they?

COSTELLO: OK, so it could have happened this way, right? So these students could have been watching stuff online, right?

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right.

COSTELLO: And then they go to this professor's class and he's talking about islamophobia.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right.

COSTELLO: And what he personally went through because he thought he was unjustly accused of jihadism.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right.

COSTELLO: And that sort of all kind of played into what their final decision was.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Yes. And I think, you know, the final decision can be a factor of many things, as we've discussed. One of which that I think we need to pay a little bit more focus on is this notion that there's a perception that the west, specifically America and America's foreign policy in the region since 9/11, is something worth fighting against in the sense that, you know, over -- I think it's half a million roughly Iraqis were killed during the Iraqi occupation. And even though it's easier to overlook these things, I think it does play a very critical role in the mindset of people who choose to join these kinds of groups.

COSTELLO: So what's the answer because this college president in Canada --

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Yes. Right.

COSTELLO: Is now going to ask -- she's going to like say, we're going to counsel all of these students to see if there are any more who have been radicalized.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right.

COSTELLO: Would something like that work or should that even be done?

SHIHAB-ELDIN: I don't know if it should be done because I think you're right to point out that it may very well not work. And that's why I think we need to be having broader conversations about how we can prevent this both in Canada and the U.S. and the west, but also in the region where there are many, many more recruits who are joining ISIS and have been joining them long before, you know, we've seen some of these kind of more sophisticated methods of recruitment.

COSTELLO: See, but when you talk about like, you know, this big broad way to stop it --

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Yes.

COSTELLO: We need to stop it right now.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right. I think --

COSTELLO: Because it's happening right now.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right.

COSTELLO: We don't really have time --

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Of course.

COSTELLO: To take like months and months and months to figure this out.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Of course. And I think that's why we need to be starting to address some of the, you know, kind of bigger issues that may very well be leading to people to be joining. That's why I think it's important to try and quash this notion that this is a perpetual clash of civilizations, a war between Islam and the west. This is a war between Islam -- or not Islam, rather, forgive me, this is a war between extremists, between people who have perverse, you know, interpretations of what Islam is and the rest because extremism really thrives on extremism. So I think we need to look at the way in which this is being framed, the way in which it's been framed because, as you know, and as you say, we don't have time on our hands and this is something that we've been fighting for, you know, well over a decade and I don't think necessarily that we've been as effective as we can by not pinpointing the real issues that underlie why people may very well choose to see this as a war between Islam and the west.

COSTELLO: Ahmed, thanks for joining me. I appreciate it.

SHIHAB-ELDIN: Thank you. It's my pleasure.

COSTELLO: This morning surprisingly strong comments from the nation's top law enforcement officer. Attorney General Eric Holder says Washington will stop at nothing to find "Jihadi John," the masked terrorist seen in the beheading videos of Americans and other westerners. Holder would not confirm reports identifying him as Mohammed Emwazi of London, but told CNN's Pamela Brown that "Jihadi John" has nowhere to hide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We have shown that it doesn't matter how long it takes, it doesn't matter where you are, we'll find you, we'll hunt you down and we will hold you accountable. Whether it's through --

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: But in a war zone like Syria, can you really do that?

HOLDER: Whether it's through the use of our military, through the use of our law enforcement capacity, if you harm Americans, it is the sworn duty of every person in the executive branch to find you and hold you accountable.

BROWN: Do you think that we would go as far as sending in our U.S. troops to find him and hunt him down?

HOLDER: I wouldn't put anything off the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: "Jihadi John" is believed to be the man seen in at least six beheading videos. Now that investigators believe they have identified him, we're hearing from the daughter of one victim, British aid worker David Haines. This is what she had to say to ITN News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETHANY HAINES, DAUGHTER OF BEHEADED AID WORKER: It's a good step, but I think all the families will feel closure and relief once there's a bullet between his eyes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Bethany Haines says, while she would like to see "Jihadi John" with a bullet between his eyes, his capture would also mean a lot of happy faces among victim's families.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, possible criminal activity at the IRS. Why the government agency is facing a new investigation, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: An IRS watchdog says it's investigating the government agency for potential criminal activity as it tries to figure out how e-mails from former official Lois Lerner went missing. Those e-mails were sought as the IRS was probed for possibly targeting Tea Party groups for extra scrutiny. CNN investigative correspondent Chris Frates is following that for you.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Carol, we now know that the IRS watchdog investigating the missing e-mails is looking into the possibility of criminal activity. The news broke late last night when the deputy inspector general testified before a congressional committee. He didn't elaborate on who might have broken the law or how, and he reminded lawmakers that the investigation is ongoing and cautioned them against jumping to any conclusions.

But the news that there's potential criminal activity is important. Remember, Lois Lerner was the IRS official at the center of a huge scandal, accused of targeting conservative groups trying to get non- profit status. When Congress began investigating the scandal, they asked for Lerrner's e-mails. But the IRS said some of those e-mails had been lost and they weren't recoverable.

Well, last year the inspector general was able to find a lot of those lost e-mails. And last night we learned that officials have found even more computer backups that might have additional e-mails on them. When I talked to House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz after the hearing, he told me, quote, "the IRS has a lot of explaining to do."

Carol.

COSTELLO: Chris Frates, many thanks.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, score one for consumers. The FCC approves new Internet regulations. Brian Stelter is breaking it all down for you.

Hi, Brian.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hey, it is so important, the phrase net neutrality, and yet it is such a confusing phrase. We're going to try to explain what it means and what it doesn't mean right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The FCC wants your internet fast and fair. The Commission voting in favor of net neutrality. Netflix is calling the vote a "consumer win." President Obama putting pen to paper to thank Reddit support as he wrote, "Thanks, Redditors. Wish I could upvote every one of you for helping keep the internet open and free." So why do consumers win? Is the internet any different now? And once and for all, what is net neutrality anyway?

Here's Brian Stelter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STELTER (voice-over): What is net neutrality? It has nothing to do with a volleyball or a tennis court. The net refers to the internet, something that's become as necessary as water and power for most of us. The neutrality part is about keeping the net the way it is today. It's a set of rules the FCC approved in 2010 to prevent speed traps on the information superhighway. In other words, speeding up access to some sites and slowing down access to others, or blocking certain sites entirely.

So are these rules a bad thing? It depends who you ask. The companies that deliver your internet, like Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T have spent millions in lobbying money to get rid of net neutrality, arguing that having the government micromanage their business is not good for them or their consumers. On the other side, our internet giants like Facebook and Google, streaming services like Netflix, and President Obama, they all argue the internet is a public good and should be regulated like one. They also say that companies that own the pipelines can play

favorites. For example, a content provider like Netflix is in direct competition with Comcast, which owns NBC Universal and controls access to the internet for more than 20 million customers. You can imagine a scenario where NBC might want to speed up streams of its shows and slow down streams of its rival Netflix. Now, Netflix can afford to pay for a fast lane. They make $4 billion a year. But the next Netflix, some awesome startup, can't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Okay. That was very helpful, Brian Stelter. So tell me why this is a win for consumers, that net neutrality is in.

STELTER (on camera): Well, it may be a win for consumers. Like Netflix says, it may be a win because it ensures that there won't be winners and losers. So some startup, the next Netflix, is able to exist on the internet without being in a slow lane. But really, as I was describing in that package, these are mostly theoretical concerns right now. It's not like Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T, or whoever you get your broadband from is right now slowing down your service in order to hurt its rivals and help itself. What the government is trying to do is put rules in place to avoid that in the future. These companies like Comcast have concerns. They say it will get litigated by the courts. For example, they are concerned about price control, the idea that maybe the government might try to regulate how much internet access costs. The FCC says that's not the plan, but that's the kind of dispute that will still be going on in the years to come.

COSTELLO: As far as like, let's say my internet service, it's just as fast as Netflix's internet service and that's really what this does, right? It guarantees that.

STELTER: That's right. Right now, Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, all of them are delivered at the same speed to your house. That's what the government says it's trying to make sure keeps happening. Essentially, they're applying these new sets of rules to make sure they have like police officers on the beat in case there is crime in the future. It's a little bit strange and some people look at this saying why are they trying to do this, why are they trying to regulate the internet? The government says it's because they want to make sure they have rules in place in order to make sure there's not bad behavior by these companies in the future. As you mentioned, President Obama has been a staunch supporter of this ever since he came out about three months ago and said he wanted this to happen, things moved quickly. Now his administration can call this a big victory.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter, thanks for the explainer. We appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Russia's president has been photographed shirtless on a horse and practicing martial arts. Now we're learning about another one of his manly pursuits. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Russian Deputy Foreign Minister says accusations from Secretary of State John Kerry that Russia was lying over its involvement in eastern Ukraine went beyond diplomatic ethics. So you have that.

But while we're on the topic of Russia and Vladimir Putin, our Fred Pleitgen caught up with the man who leads the biker gang that Putin himself likes to ride with.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's no secret Russia's president enjoys motorcycles and when Vladimir Putin rides with the former communist block's biggest bike club, the "Night Wolves," his wing man is also a staunch ally. Alexander Zaldostanov, nicknamed 'the surgeon,' is the "Night Wolves" president. He tells me his admiration from Putin is religious.

ALEXANDER ZALDOSTANOV, PRESIDENT, "NIGHT WOLVES" (THROUGH TRANSLATION): I believe Vladimir Putin is a gift from God to us, he says, after so many years we have a president we're not ashamed of, so I certainly believe we need to help him and give him our shoulder.

PLEITGEN: Those are not empty words, when what Vladimir Putin now acknowledges were Russian troops entered Crimea last year, the "Night Wolves" were already there commanding checkpoints, setting the scene for the invasion. The separatist flag flies inside the "Night Wolves" compound. And Alexander Zaldostanov acknowledges members of the club are fighting in Ukraine.

ZALDOSTANOV (THROUGH TRANSLATION): There are many of our Ukrainian "Night Wolves" in Luhansk and Donetsk, he says. Unfortunately, we've lost three of them. They all died as a result of shelling.

PLEITGEN: The "Night Wolves" involvement in Ukraine has caused both the group and Zaldostanov himself to be placed on the U.S.' sanctions list. But as he shows me some of the machines the club designs, he says sanctions will never cause him or Russia to budge.

ZALDOSTANOV: Continues to fight. If you stop the fight --you are dead. But if you continue, your fight. You get hope to (inaudible).

PLEITGEN: As Russia's economy buckles under sanctions, unemployment rate soars and its currency tumbles. Like Alexander Zaldostanov, a majority of Russians remain faithful to their president, unfazed by criticism and pressure from the West.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: In just a few minutes we're expecting a news conference to begin about those shootings in rural Missouri I told you about at the top of the show. The Missouri Sheriff's Office says that nine people have been found dead across multiple sites in a rural Missouri town. Police believe one of the people was the suspect, who died of a self- inflicted gunshot wound. They will not specify how the others died. One other person was discovered injured. He was taken to a local hospital. Hopefully we'll know more at the top of the hour.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

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