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Veteran to Join ISIS; Durst Case; Agency Chief Kept in Dark; Aaron Schock Resigns From Congress. Aired from 2-2:30p.

Aired March 17, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up. For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here we go. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Got some breaking news for you at the top of the show here on this Tuesday afternoon. I know at first it sounds like a familiar headline, but this time it is much, much different. A young man, a westerner, we're just now learning here at CNN, accused of trying to enter Syria and join ISIS. This time that young man is not only an American, he is a U.S. Air Force veteran. CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown broke the story for us within this past hour.

Pamela, who is he?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is a 47-year-old man, Brooke, Tairod Nathan Webster Pugh. As you point out, he is an Air Force veteran. He served in the Air Force as a mechanic for several years and then left in the '90s, apparently moved to Texas. And according to the criminal complaint we're looking through just now, he became increasingly radicalized in the late '90s. He then became an engineer for American Airlines - a mechanic, I should say, for American Airlines.

And In 2001, Brooke, a former employee he worked with at American Airlines tipped off the FBI that Pugh was sympathizing with Osama bin Laden at the time, that he'd made some alarming remarks. So the FBI, he was put on the FBI's radar back in 2001. Clearly they felt like they didn't have enough to build a case on him and so Pugh went on to travel overseas and be an aviation mechanic overseas. He, in fact, was an Army contractor in Iraq for a period of time, according to the criminal complaint. He worked for several private companies working on airplane engines, Brooke.

And according to the complaint, in January, early January, he tried to cross over into Syria from Turkey to join ISIS and fight violent jihad. Apparently Turkish authorities asked him if they could look at his electronics. He said that they couldn't. He denied them access. And then, at that point, that's when Turkish authorities said, well, you can't come into our country. They suspected something was up, sent him back to Egypt, where he had traveled from. And according to the complaint, Brooke, it appeared that he had tampered with his electronic devices after that, damaging them so that officials couldn't search them.

As it turns out, according to the FBI, when he was deported from Egypt to the United States, they did seize his electronics and they found some propaganda. More than 100 propaganda videos, apparently. ISIS and other terrorist groups. So really concerning.

But we have heard this before, Brooke, these material support cases. What's really unique here is we have someone who was part of the United States Air Force.

BALDWIN: He was a veteran.

BROWN: He's a veteran.

BALDWIN: He was a veteran.

BROWN: He's a veteran.

BALDWIN: We've talked about this, Pamela Brown. We've talked about teenagers. We've talked about westerners.

BROWN: That's right.

BALDWIN: This is the first U.S. veteran I have heard of who has been caught trying to go into Syria to try to join ISIS.

BROWN: Right.

BALDWIN: Do we know anymore beyond what - the tampering of electronic devices and propaganda videos that was found, do we know any more about his motivations, the why?

BROWN: The why is always the big question. I mean clearly this man, as feared by authority, was influenced by ISIS propaganda. There were beheading videos, execution videos. The flames of war, the ISIS video, 55-minute video. So it appears, Brooke, that he was influenced by the ISIS propaganda and wanted to link up with the militant group. He had done some research allegedly on different routes and how to get from Turkey to Syria.

But as I mentioned earlier, it appears in the late '90s he became - he converted to Islam and became increasingly radicalized. And then, according to one of his former co-workers at American Airlines, sympathized with Osama bin Laden. So clearly there is a history there according to the authorities and it's just, you know, according to this complaint, it's good that there was some coordination between Turkish authorities and that he is now in U.S. custody. His attorney, though, I should mention, Brooke, says that he will plead not guilty tomorrow when he appears before a judge.

BALDWIN: OK. Pamela Brown, thank you so much for the reporting. Let us know when and if you get more.

Meantime, just a reminder to all of us, we cannot forget that each and every day, in countries like Iraq, like Syria, there are millions of innocent civilians affected by the brutal terror group that is ISIS. You can help. We are making it easy for you to do so. Just go to our Impact Your World website. That's cnn.com/impact.

And now to the millionaire murder suspect Robert Durst. He's charged with capital murder in one state, drug and weapons felonies in another, and somehow he can still smile. This image was captured outside the courthouse in Louisiana just a couple hours ago as this accused killer learned he would not be extradited, at least not quite yet.

A Louisiana judge set a bond hearing for Monday as Durst faces new charges based on what police found when they arrested him in the city Saturday. A source says Durst had some pot and a lot of cash with him. Police records show he also had a fake driver's license and a .38- caliber revolver, all to escape to Cuba. This is according to one official.

[14:05:18] And what exactly was this man apparently running from? Good question. Could it have been the Los Angeles Police Department? L.A. County prosecutors have now officially filed a murder charge against the 71-year-old real estate heir. And when you look through some of these court document, they indicate that Durst was quote/unquote "lying in wait" for his close friend Susan Berman who was about to talk to police about the disappearance of Durst's wife Kathie.

A Los Angeles police official told "The L.A. Times" his charges are based upon the investigation and not on this recent finale of his HBO docu-series called "The Jinx." In it, as we discussed yesterday, he is heard with this hot microphone saying he quote/unquote "killed them all." Durst is also confronted with a letter that links his handwriting to that of Berman's possible killer. But according to Durst's attorney, "The Jinx" had everything to do with this latest murder charge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK DEGUERIN, DURST'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Bob Durst did not kill Susan Berman. He doesn't know who did. That having been said, my concern is that the warrant that was issued in California was issued because of a television show and not because of facts. We're going to get to contest that warrant here in Louisiana. We want to contest the basis for his arrest because I think it's not based on facts, it's based on ratings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, criminal defense attorney Linda Kenney Baden, who represented Casey Anthony.

LINDA KENNEY BADEN, CASEY ANTHONY'S FORMER ATTORNEY: Yes.

BALDWIN: And on the phone with me is the very last person actually known to have seen Susan Berman before she was shot and killed, her friend, Rich Markey.

So welcome to both of you.

BADEN: Thank you, Brooke. BALDWIN: Rich, to you first on the phone with me. I want to just - I have to go back to the multiple pictures we've now seen today of Robert Durst smiling coming out of court, in the back of this patrol car. When you see these photos, Rich, what do you make of these?

RICH MARKEY, LAST PERSON TO SEE SUSAN BERMAN ALIVE (ph) (via telephone): He is able to represent himself as somebody who he isn't. I've met him, and I did not get any kind of vibe from him that he was a serial killer, but clearly he is.

BALDWIN: Linda, you heard his attorney, Durst's attorney, saying that the warrant is based upon a TV show -

BADEN: Right.

BALDWIN: And not the facts.

BADEN: Right. Well, you know, I tried the Phil Specter case out in Hollywood and you've heard - Dick DeGuerin is a great criminal defense attorney star. He's going to say this is a great drama. It's a great Hollywood -

BALDWIN: It's about TV ratings, he says.

BADEN: But it's going to get awards. But that's not the truth. It's a drama. It's TV. It's Hollywood. Now let's get to the facts. And what are the facts. And he's going to start attacking them. He's going to say that hot mike - well, he also - and Durst said, I want it. Well, he didn't want an arrest. So what does it all mean? He's going to say, I bet you that he's got neurosurgical problems. Maybe brain cancer and that was coming on and, therefore, you have to look at context. He's going to get all the tapes that the - the filmmaker has. He's going to attack handwriting as not being a science because it is not, handwriting analysis.

BALDWIN: The misspelling of "Beverly" in Beverly Hills on the two envelopes.

BADEN: All not a science. He's going to say that somebody else set him up. He's going to say somebody else wrote that, copied it. I mean I can see it coming from a mile away. So while the TV show is a slam dunk, the documentary, to getting an award, the conviction on a murder case is not a slam dunk at all.

BALDWIN: OK, Rich, back to you. The last time you saw Susan, what was that like?

MARKEY: We had dinner. She mentioned that Bobby had just loaned her or gifted her enough money to temporarily get her out of debt, and she was very grateful that he had helped her.

BALDWIN: And now that you've heard about everything, about "The Jinx," about this open mike moment, questions about some of the filmmakers, legal questions, ethical questions, you're reading through all of this, how does this - how does this affect you? MARKEY: Well, I think anyone with common sense can connect the dots.

He clearly is a serial killer, and he killed Susan. He killed his ex- wife. He killed the guy in Texas. And he's managed to get away with it. But from what I saw in the HBO "Jinx," "The Jinx," he knows he's caught.

BALDWIN: Let me play that, in case you have not heard this moment that we're all - really this key moment in which you hear Mr. Durst walking into this bathroom. He's got this microphone on. He's agreed to do this docu-series. This is the moment involving this confession.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT DURST (voice-over): What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:05] BALDWIN: Just going back to you, Linda.

BADEN: Well, this is going to be - he's going to say that, again, Dick DeGuerin, this is the perfect Hamlet moment, Shakespeare. He's talking to himself. He's saying, this is what Direki (ph) is thinking, not what I want. So he's going to get all the outtakes. Let's see what happened before and after.

BALDWIN: Will it be allowed in court? I mean you dealt with Casey Anthony, all the party pictures, could they be admissible, could they not.

BADEN: I think it's going to be - yes. Yes. This is going - this is coming into court. This is coming into court.

BALDWIN: It is?

BADEN: And, quite frankly, if I'm DeGuerin, I may want it into court.

BALDWIN: Why?

BADEN: I may want to say because his brain cancer, if he has the brain cancer, is coming on. So we don't know what kind of ramblings are going on in this head. You know, if you look, you see this scar right across the back of his head here. And so I wouldn't be afraid of that at all. I wouldn't be afraid of it because in the middle of it, again, he says, I want this. He didn't want to be arrested. So it makes no sense. That's what I would start talking about.

BALDWIN: OK. Linda Kenney Baden and Rich Markey, thank you both very, very much. I appreciate it.

BADEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

We will watch this as it moves forward certainly. Coming up next here on CNN, the boat owner who told police the Boston

bomber was in his backyard takes the stand in the marathon trial underway in the federal courthouse there in Massachusetts. Hear what he says about that bloody standoff in his own words.

Plus, a young NFL star quits, leaves millions of dollars on the table, says the risk isn't worth it. We'll tell you why.

And it is the greatest art heist in history, but who stole half a billion dollars' worth of art? The feds now say they know who's behind it. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:06] BALDWIN: Well, I bet if you compared exactly how your day is going to the morning the man leading the Secret Service had, you'd probably be doing better than he is. The new Secret Service director, Joe Clancy, sat before a House appropriations subcommittee today, and it was far from a welcome party. In fact, it was supposed to be a hearing where he could explain his agency's budget request. Instead, questions, lectures focused on the latest claims of Secret Service misbehavior. It is alleged that two Secret Service officers drove their car through a barricade and right through at the time this ongoing investigation on White House grounds all the while intoxicated. But representatives argue that the issue is bigger than the incident himself - itself, I should say. This comes down to the Secret Service culture of the agency and discipline and it goes right to the tip top.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN CARTER (R), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY SUBCOMMITTEE: You're the two star. You have a division under your command. And you've got to make sure that everyone in your command and control structure are meeting that obligation. If everybody is just sitting around and watching me talk on television to figure out what it is, you know, I can chew their (EXPLETIVE DELETED) too.

JOE CLANCY, DIRECTOR, SECRET SERVICE: Yes, sir.

CARTER: But that's not my job.

CLANCY: Yes, sir.

CARTER: That's your job and those people in the chain of command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in author and journalist Jeffrey Robinson. He co-wrote "Standing Next to History: An Agent's Life Inside the Secret Service."

Jeffrey Robinson, we were just talking about this story last week and now the bombshell. This is from this grilling of this testimony. We learned that Joseph Clancy, this is what he said, he said he didn't know about what happened on March 4th until five days later - JEFFREY ROBINSON, CO-WROTE BOOK WITH SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Five days, yes.

BALDWIN: From an anonymous e-mail. This is not -not by the Secret Service agent in charge that night. What does that tell you?

ROBINSON: This is a big problem.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ROBINSON: A big, big, big problem with leadership. I mean there is just no excuse for it. He even said in his testimony there's no excuse for it. But this - this is significant because he may not be the right guy for the job. And I'm a Clancy fan. And you know I'm very supportive.

BALDWIN: This is the first time you've said that because I've pushed -- I've pushed you on that because there have been criticisms saying this is an inside guy, maybe they should have somebody at the top from the outside. And you said, no, no, no, inside is better.

ROBINSON: No. No, no, no. No, inside is much better because inside they understand the mission, they understand the culture, they understand the tradition.

You know, look at all of these problems in the last five, six, seven years. They've all happened since the Secret Service has been put into Homeland Security. That's part of the problem. That's a real significant part of the problem. It doesn't belong there. It needs to be put back into Treasury. And God help us if there's a knee-jerk reaction into finding somebody coming from the outside to take over. That would be devastating for the Secret Service. It would change the agency irreparably.

BALDWIN: What about also the fact that he took heat not for launching his own investigation. Instead, he turned everything over to the inspector general first. What do you think of that move?

ROBINSON: Well - well, that's what he has to do because they're part of Homeland Security. Back in Treasury, they're the golden boys. They could have handled this and Treasury would have handled it completely differently. It wouldn't have happened because the culture in Treasury is very different than just being one of many agencies in Homeland Security.

BALDWIN: What about - we also learned that he had, and I'm paraphrasing, like a stern, direct confrontation, conversation with other agents in the wake of all of this. What do you think - what do you think the orders would have been if you could - if you could have been inside that conversation?

ROBINSON: Give me your badge, give me your gun, you've just retired. That's what the order should have been.

Now, he said in testimony, he said, I can't fire people on the spot. Well, then you're not the director. You know, one of the things that happens when you are the boss is you can fire people, you can promote people, you can demote them. He should have taken action.

Let me just say this. And I mean this very sincerely because you know I'm a fan of the Secret Service.

BALDWIN: I know you are.

ROBINSON: They've got to -- they've got to move it back to Treasury. They must always assure that somebody comes up through the ranks. Because you can't understand what it is to protect the life of the president unless you've protected the life of the president. And I think Mr. Clancy needs to step up and show real leadership. He owes that to the president and the vice president, whom he protects with his life. He owes that to the American people. But, more importantly, he owes that to the men and women who wear the badge, who are the best and brightest. And they deserve nothing less.

[14:20:18] BALDWIN: Jeffrey Robinson, author of "Standing Next to History: An Agent's Life Inside the Secret Service." Thank you, sir.

ROBINS: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it.

Got to get to some breaking news just into us here at CNN. We are getting word that Illinois Congressman Aaron Schock is resigning from Congress. Resigning. The Republican facing big, big questions about his spending habits.

Let me bring in our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash and chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Dana, first to you. Talk to me about this resignation. What are you hearing?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That he just released a statement, said that he is going to resign effective March 31st. So just in a couple of weeks, at the end of this month. He says he does it with a heavy heart and serving the people of the 18th district is the highest and greatest honor that I've had. And then he goes on to say, constant questions over the last six weeks have proven a great distraction that has made it too difficult for me to serve the people of the 18th district.

Now, of course, we have been reporting, Athena Jones, my colleague, Deirdre Walsh, others have been reporting on the extensive questions that have just come up over and over and over again, specifically about his expenses, his recordkeeping, using taxpayer money to be on private jets, on planes to take trips that were not appropriate to do with taxpayer money, that he eventually paid back or was trying to pay back. But I just talked to a source who's been involved in the discussions internally, trying to figure out what is going on and the answer was that it was just too hard to figure out what was going on. It was just a drip, drip, drip, drip, drip and it just became very clear that the recordkeeping, Brooke, and the way that the expenses were done in his office, it was too much. It was done too incorrectly and it was very clear that he was not going to be able to survive this, never mind this term, but just to be able to continue to go on and doing his job.

BALDWIN: We know that he's been grilled, right? He's been grilled over and you mentioned the drip, drip, drip. My question would be, when did the drip start? Because we know he's been drilled. Drew Griffin, our investigative correspondent, has been, you know, has done entire profile pieces on this sort of spending, perhaps misuse of taxpayer and campaign funds, Gloria Borger. But when did this really begin?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It probably - it started, and Dana, correct me if I'm wrong, when it was reported that he spent over $40,000 of taxpayer dollars redecorates his office to look like "Downton Abbey."

BASH: Correct.

BALDWIN: "Downton Abbey."

BORGER: Right.

BASH: Which was paid back. That was.

BORGER: And - that was - that was paid back.

Look, the rules governing the use of taxpayer money, these taxpayer accounts that members of Congress have, have grown more and more strict over the years. And they're very scrutinized when anybody raises a question. This is what the ethics committees spend an awful lot of time doing. And I think that what we can say is that what occurred here, as Dana was pointing out, is that so many questions were being raised in so many different areas. Not only about the office redecoration, but about trips on private planes, on entertainment, et cetera, et cetera, that after a while the ethics committee is going to stay to you, to a certain degree, we don't see how you're defending this. And I think that's what Schock is effectively admitting.

BALDWIN: How do - and forgive me, this is maybe an obtuse question, but, Dana Bash, how do members of Congress think they can get away with redecorating an office to look like the set of a popular TV show or using these flights and using all this money? I mean ethics committees exist for a reason, right?

BASH: Right. And the irony is that, as Gloria said, that was what started the questions and the - this sort of the - his spending under the microscope. And it turns out that that wasn't even the issue. The issue was that they did not, as I said, they did not have good recordkeeping. They had been going - he hired a couple of lawyers. They have been trying to go over to figure out how it was done over the past several years. And it turns out that it was just - there were too many examples of him not properly using taxpayer money or maybe the better way to say it is to - that he didn't use either his personal money or political money and follow the rules, follow the law.

BALDWIN: OK. BASH: And it was - and it - you know, and, look, you know, a lot of these members of Congress, you know, they're not record keepers. They're not bookkeepers. I'm not saying that there's - that he should be excused for it, but they rely on staff to do things properly. And that clearly did not happen here. The buck does stop with him, which is why he's clearly resigning at this point.

The other thing I should mention is that Aaron Schock, you know, we kind of know who he is because he has been a young, rising star. He is somebody who is, you know, is incredibly accessible. He is somebody who is articulate in the policy and politics of Republicans. He represents a very conservative district in southern Illinois.

[14:25:18] I mean, you talk about - the joke is, what do people in Peoria think? Well, he represents Peoria. And I think, in this case, because he has had such a jet set life, I mean part of the issue isn't just the expenses, it's where he was going, to rock concerts with Katy Perry, to Buckingham Palace, that's not the kind of thing that I think a lot of people in his very kind of -

BALDWIN: Constituency.

BASH: Salt of the earth constituency -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: That they're used to. I mean they had people like Ray LaHood, who was here for a very long time, who was so well respected that he actually went to work for a Democratic president. Bob Michael, who was a Republican leader. I mean these are very different kinds of Republicans.

BALDWIN: Well -

BASH: Also so it was also probably clear he was going to get a Republican challenge.

BORGER: Right. I was just going to say, there's every reason to believe that politically he would have very trouble - a lot of trouble surviving this if he had remained.

BALDWIN: Well, a young rising - young rising star to rise no longer, according to Dana, effective March 31st.

BORGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: Ladies, thank you. Dana Bash and Gloria Borger, appreciate it.

BORGER: Sure.

BASH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, tense moments in the trial of accused bomber out of Boston, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. The owner of the boat where the younger Tsarnaev was found describes the moment he knew this wanted potential terrorist was hiding in his backyard. You have to stick around to hear this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)