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New Documents on Sheriff Deputy Who Shot Suspect; Republicans in New Hampshire; Hillary Clinton's Rebranding; Will Marco Rubio Face Former Mentor Jeb Bush?; Marijuana: A True Cash Crop. Aired 4-5p

Aired April 18, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:07] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. It is 4:00 here on the east coast and this just in to CNN. We are going through dozens of pages of documents given to us by the attorney for Robert Bates. Bates is the Tulsa, Oklahoma, volunteer sheriff's deputy who shot and killed a suspect on April 2nd after he says he made a terrible mistake, mistaking his gun for his Taser.

So far, no one has been able to come up with the paperwork showing that he got the adequate training required to carry a gun and a badge on the street in Tulsa and to police there. But on the phone with me now is our Ed Lavandera. He has been able to obtain these documents from Bates' lawyer, the sheriff's department could not turn them over to us.

Ed joins me now. Ed, what is most significant? I know you're going through 64 pages of documentation. What stands out to you?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (through phone): Well, you really have to look at this through the prism of what has been going on with this story and the great deal of criticism is a lot of this is based on a Tulsa newspaper report from several days ago saying that the field training documents that is needed to certify Robert Bates as a reserve deputy with the Tulsa County Sheriff's department.

This newspaper report saying that they had had five sources saying these documents had been falsified. The attorneys for Robert Bates say that is not the base. Robert Bates himself said that's not the case. He can prove that he was certified to be able to work the streets of Tulsa as a reserve deputy the way he has for the course of last seven or eight years.

So this is really the first glimpse that we have gotten into the most detailed accounts of Mr. Bates' training since he became a reserve deputy. What you see in some of these documents, Poppy, is, what stands out the most is several of the firearms certification documents that show that he was qualified and trained to use a firearm, those are significant.

There's also some comments in there talking about how Mr. Bates was a good deputy and was able to relate well with the public and that sort of thing, favorable comments. All of this is really based on the criticism when you look at the fact of what Mr. Bates has done here is in the state that many people are having a hard time wrapping their head around how can you mistake a bright yellow Taser strapped to the front of your chest for a small black handgun that was on your waist.

It calls into question whether or not he was properly trained to be in an undercover sting operation. That's what a lot of this stems from. Mr. Bates' lawyer is going to great lengths now taking the offensive to show Mr. Bates was properly trained and was working in proper capacity to be out there in that sting operation.

HARLOW: I want our viewers, Ed, to listen to what Robert Bates himself said in his interview on the "Today" show yesterday morning about having the certification needed. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT BATES, TULSA COUNTY DEPUTY: That is not correct. I have a written piece of paper that a Mr. Warren (INAUDIBLE) now in jail for first-degree murder 40 miles east of here in Mayes County, signed off to say I had done a good job. The (INAUDIBLE) law firm has been most interesting. They seem to represent all the people that have been terminated by the sheriff's office -

UNIDENTIFED MALE: But without getting off on a tangent, you did the training and you can prove that you are certified?

BATES: That is absolutely the truth. I have it in writing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And now, Ed, it appears these documents handed over to us from his lawyer. The lawyer asserts show that. However, we don't have anything corroborating these documents, do we?

LAVANDERA: Well, I think the question is going to be now -- from this Tulsa newspaper report saying that they have these five sources that say these documents were falsified, as we look at these documents, if that report is true, what we're looking at it's hard to say whether we're looking at something that's fully accurate.

HARLOW: Right.

LAVANDERA: Clearly Mr. Bates and his lawyers believe that is the case. They have taken with quite exception the allegations that are made in the newspaper report and very frustrated by the way it has also been reported by other news media organizations. But that is still the allegation that is out there. Mr. Bates and his lawyers are going to say that this proves that Mr. Bates was properly trained at everything. It was done the way it was supposed to be done.

But I'm not quite sure we have heard the end of this part of the story. Mr. Bates' lawyers acknowledge in the 64 pages and a statement that came along with it, there are also several years worth of documents that are missing.

16:05:06

And we haven't gotten a clear explanation from the sheriff's department as to exactly why that is and where those documents might be and if we'll ever be able to see them.

HARLOW: Ed Lavandera, appreciate the reporting, thank you very much.

Let's not forget as we cover this it development that Eric Harris, the 42-year-old that was shot and killed, is being remembered today by his friends and his family who are saying their final good-byes today before his funeral.

Ed Lavandera, thank you for that.

Let's bring in Harry Houck, a former NYPD officer to talk about this. You have been looking through these documents for the last hour. A few things stand out to you, if indeed they are correct and if indeed they were not manipulated or forged, as the "Tulsa World" paper has reported.

HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: I took a first look at everything here. I didn't get a chance to study everything, but there's a couple things that definitely just stand out to me.

One of them is that he has had a significant amount of training, according to these records. But what I see here is he got a 24-hour homicide training course. I'm sorry, I don't want him on the scene of a homicide. Crime scene photography has us negotiating. I mean, why would he be getting that kind of training? Is he paying for this training or is the city paying for it?

HARLOW: And let's remember the screen as Tulsa deputy, but let's remember that he is a volunteer officer.

HOUCK: Exactly.

HARLOW: He is a reserved deputy. That is very different than being a hired and paid officer.

HOUCK: And there are some records where this guy puts in at least 20 hours a week. Some up to 60 hours a month. That's a lot of time this man puts in.

HARLOW: Can we step back and talk about why these reserve positions exists? Because I think a lot of viewers, I certainly was asking myself, there's a lot of positions where you cannot volunteer for something. You cannot be a volunteer brain surgeon. You can be a volunteer doctor helping with something if you are already a doctor. Why are there so many of these reserve deputies across the country right now?

HOUCK: Well, as you know, law enforcement doesn't get as much money as required, as needed. So there might be budgetary constraints on the department. So therefore they tend to utilize these officers in different situations where they can put professional officer on patrol and officers like him for parades, parties, things like that where you have block parties. HARLOW: Very quickly, before I let you go. Here in New York City,

the NYPD does not allow its reserve deputies, it's volunteers to carry guns. Should that be how it is across the country?

HOUCK: I don't know. I mean, I'm thinking to myself, as long as somebody is trained, a lot of these officers are in uniform. They might have to protect themselves if somebody attacks them. They don't have an armed officer with them all the time. I think the training is proper, like I said this is only one incident right now. So I don't have a problem with it.

HARLOW: Thank you very much. Harry Houck, former NYPD. I appreciate it. I'll remind you that Robert Bates has been charged with second degree manslaughter. His attorney saying that it should be excusable homicide.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Turning now to politics, the fight for New hampshire is on. Virtually the entire field of potential Republican presidential hopefuls, 19 in all, are duking it all in this very important primary state. They have been taking the stage at a leadership summit today. Among the recent speakers former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE, FMR. ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: When do we have term limits in this country and say when you go to Congress it's not going to be the proverbial roach motel where you go in but you never come out. We should say you go in and after a reasonable period of time, you come out, go home and find out what it's like to live under the laws that you passed for the rest of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our Athena Jones is live in (INAUDIBLE) New Hampshire with more. How are they doing?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Poppy. Well, it's been a very jampacked day when it comes to speakers. We have heard a lot of talk about conservative principles. Big winners with this audience. We heard talk about cutting spending, cutting taxes, cutting the size of government. We have heard from focus like Ted Cruz saying abolish the IRS and send those folks to the border and follow the border crisis at the same time. Get rid of the IRS. Solve the border crisis at the same time.

We have heard from folks like Carly Fiorina bashing Hillary Clinton, who is the only candidate on the democratic side, who has officially thrown her hat into the ring. Criticizing her on several fronts. For one thing, she said, she got big applause when she said like Hillary Clinton, she's traveled the world quite a lot, travelled in many, many flights around the world and that she knows that flying is just an activity, a mode of transportation and not an accomplishment.

So that's a dig at the former secretary of state touting her own experience all around the world. We also just heard from Ted Cruz speaking somewhat hyperbolically. He said that - he bashed the president on foreign policy, based the fact that President Obama does not want to use the term radical Islam or fighting radical Islam.

16:10:05

He said the next 20 months under this president are going to be a dangerous time. (INAUDIBLE) Lord of the Flies. So a little bit of political philosophy mixed with a little bit of hyperbole. But this is what a lot of these folks here, this crowd here have been wanting to hear. Very red meat conservative principles. Poppy.

HARLOW: It's interesting they are not taking on one another, which is really what they have to do in the primary season. They are taking on this administration and Hillary Clinton. Why that strategy?

JONES: Well, I think - I spoke to a political scientist before coming here and he said this is really far out. You got to have - it makes more sense for these candidates and potential candidates to keep their fire aimed at the other side than it does to begin already tearing each other down.

But I should mention that at least one speaker that we heard from, Governor Rick Perry of Texas, did warn the crowd in his remarks yesterday afternoon that maybe it's not such a good idea to choose another first term senator as their Republican nominee. That's not so vailed (ph) dig at folks like Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Rand Paul.

So there has been a little bit of talk about each other, but a lot more focus on President Obama's policies and on Hillary Clinton. Poppy.

HARLOW: Athena Jones, live for us in New Hampshire. Thanks, Athena. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, Bush versus Clinton, haven't we seen this before? 2015 could feel a lot like 1992. Is that a good thing, is that a bad thing and will voters have little fatigue with that? We'll talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

16:14:56

HARLOW: All of the Republican candidates, well, they are not even candidates yet, but presumptive candidates are in New Hampshire this weekend and perhaps no one is getting more attention than Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor is on a mission to prove he's not a carbon copy of his father or brother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Everybody knows me as George's boy, Barbara's boy, W.'s brother, I have some other family members, but if I'm going to go beyond the consideration of running for the highest office in the land, I need to share my heart to show a little bit about my life experience. For those that have family members, I think you can appreciate this. We're not always like our brother or sister or mom and dad. We all have our own unique DNA and own life experiences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN senior political analyst and former adviser to four presidents David Gergen joins me now. David, what's your reaction to how Jeb Bush put that? It seemed pretty effective to me. A lot of us have siblings and we're not exactly like them. Is he doing well on that front?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think he's doing reasonably well. You know, Senator Diane Feinstein of California has had the best line of the campaign so far. She said not long ago, "Well, it looks like Jeb Bush is going to get into this and run for president. Now, we finally know what the Bush family has meant all this time when they argued no child left behind."

There is that element here. I think he's good natured about it. He's got - look, at the end of the day, two things. One, dynasty or not, healthy for a country? Yes, one of the things George Washington did was not leave a dynasty, in fact, he never had a son. A lot of our founding fathers did not and that really helped the country get started.

So in some way I think dynasties are unhealthy. At the same time, as we approach 2016, the question is not dynasty but who is the best qualified among these contenders on both sides to be the next president. That's really what's the most serious issue. That's where I think Jeb has got to distinguish himself here and as he goes to these (INAUDIBLE) shows and is matched up against the others. You know, how does he stack up? He's in a race with 20 other candidates, for goodness sakes.

HARLOW: We have seen some of the candidates basically pointing to their peers in the Senate, who may be running and saying, look, being in the Senate is not like running a state or running the budget of a state and therefore you need someone who has been a governor before. What do you make of that and how effectively that translates with the voter?

GERGEN: History proves that governors, especially of larger states, tend to be better presidents. It's not always the case, but if you look at the 20th century, Teddy Roosevelt started the century, coming out of governor of New York. Franklin Roosevelt had been governor of New York. Both of them were well prepared. By contract, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton both came from smaller states. They both had trouble starting. Bill Clinton was so talented that he got over it very quickly six to eight months, but it was a challenge for him.

But what we found is if you're in the Senate, with all due respect to senators because they are some of the brightest minds - the best political minds in the country, they're patriots. But the fact is you don't manage very much. You manage a staff of 30, 35 people. If you're president of the United States, you manage, you oversee, you lead the largest organization in the world.

The Pentagon itself is the largest single organization in the world. So you need some management background at least an understanding of it. I think that some voters have concluded that one of the issues of President Obama is he didn't have a chance before he got there to manage a larger organization.

HARLOW: Let me ask you this. One of the things that the candidates are talking about - that could distinguish them from one another is this lack of even holding a hearing yet to confirm the attorney general nominee Loretta Lynch. We heard Jeb Bush talk about it this week and say look every president has the right to pick their team. Just saying even if you oppose her, every president has the right to pick their team.

On this it front, are some Republicans getting it wrong by not - it's been like 160 days delayed just to have a vote.

GERGEN: It's time for a vote. She deserves it, up or down, let's get it done, let's move on. This is unfair to her. It - I think sends chilling signals again about how dysfunctional Washington can be. I must say, trying to sort out the candidates this weekend, two, I thought, who stood out. One was for courage - political courage they showed.

One was Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey who was the first person out of the box to say we must reform entitlements and he gave us an example of what he would do on social security. He would cut benefits for people at the higher income levels. And it's a gutsy thing to do.

And the other was Jeb Bush coming in after - and saying not only does he support the Loretta Lynch vote and he would move forward on it, which is going to tick off some Republicans but he also came up and said he was not a climate change skeptic. That he really wanted to understand this and was open to - that's a big, big issue among conservatives.

It will make it harder for him to get the nomination. If he were to get the nomination, it would make him a stronger candidate for president, in my judgment.

16:20:13

HARLOW: David Gergen, thanks so much. Stick around. We're going to talk a lot more about this on the other side.

Including how does a potential White House contender really rise above the rest in New Hampshire and elsewhere across the country and get some lasting momentum. We'll talk about that.

But first this, Hillary Clinton, of course, doesn't really have any official rivals yet in her party, but she has obviously her own challenge of selling herself to voters a second time around. Can she turn the page on her past and really effectively repackage herself for the presidency? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We're keeping a close eye on that huge gathering of Republicans in New Hampshire this hour, but we also have plenty to talk about when it comes to Hillary Clinton.

David Gergen is back with us, former adviser to four presidents. Also joining me here in New York, Matha Pease, brand expert, the CEO of Demand Works and the co-auhtor of "Think Round."

Thank you both for being here. Let's talk about how the first week, not even a full week yet has gone for Hillary. Martha, you just wrote a really fascinating op-ed about this on CNN.com. It's titled "Hillary's Excellent Campaign Launch." You think she's been really effective from the video to the tour around Iowa. What stands out to you?

16:25:00

MARTHA PEASE, BRAND EXPERT: Well, I think the marketing has been effective. I think her team took on the number one strategic issue in terms of how she's presented to the public in changing the orientation of her relationship to the consumer from I to the voter, to we.

And I think that was the real central strategic challenge for what they needed to do with this launch. Make it about the voter, make it not about Hillary and use the pieces, use the marketing tools at their disposal to position her as a more accessible and connected and frankly softer candidate to voters.

HARLOW: Here's what you write, in part "What we know is that over time voters see a lot of unscripted moments of a candidate where the real character comes through. If they spot hypocrisy between ads and the candidate, that campaign will get in trouble fast." Is that the real danger you're seeing for Clinton if they do see any hypocrisy?

PEASE: Yes, I think if they launch a really exceptional marketing campaign, which it seems like they have the capability to do. They are on the verge of doing that. I think there are two issues. One is she's got to walk the walk. So it's not enough to say what she put it into a marketing campaign. She's got to behave in a way that's consistent with how she's being presented in the marketing campaign.

So any daylight between what they are presenting through the media and how she's actually behaving will mean that there's an inconsistent message out there and it will be a troublesome thing for her campaign.

HARLOW: And in the days of social media, anything can be caught on camera and tweeted about, et cetera.

PEASE: She will be caught in a second. So consistency is absolutely critical.

HARLOW: So David Gergen, to you, you have been involved in shaping candidates and shaping president's messages. You know the Clintons well. You knew the Clinton White House well. How effectively in this first week do you think Hillary Clinton has and can going forward repackaged, rebrand herself as a candidate?

GERGEN: Well, there are certainly disagreements about this issue on the internet. Martha's blog on CNN.com has stirred up a storm of argument on both sides.

There's some support for her position. Strikingly Politico each week asks political activists on the Republican party, on the democratic party, how the week has gone, to assess things. And 72 Republican strategists, a majority said it went well, better than expected and they were concerned about it.

So there's support out there. I personally feel the danger is very strong that this campaign like this will seem to be contrived, scripted and it's far more important at the end of the day that she be herself and not wear some kind of mask invented by her handlers.

HARLOW: Well, it's an interesting point because my team and I were talking about this yesterday. Some have said, does every candidate have to make themselves of the people? Because clearly when you're talking ant someone who has millions and millions of dollars like Hillary Clinton and a lot of the other potential candidates, do you think and Martha, to you, do you think you have to make yourself of the people to be effective?

PEASE: I think you have to make yourself accessible in a way that's consistent with the message that you're trying to create around what you stand for. And if there are aspects of that that have to do with authenticity and being of the people that are going to achieve that goal, then use that in how you market.

Hillary clearly has an issue of accessibility. That's a different issue than another kind of candidate might face in this race. Marco Rubio may have an issue of name awareness. You see that reflected in his logo. The issues are different for each candidate. I think authenticity is frankly subjective and in the end much of what you take away of the candidate has a lot to do with how you're going to relate to how they position themselves.

HARLOW: Let's listen to this as Jeb Bush having a little bit of fun with that stop that Hillary Clinton made at Chipotle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH: Do I go there? Yes, I go there.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: The one in US1.

JEB BUSH: Drive my own car, park my own car, get out of my own car -

UNIDENTIFED MALE: You know how to drive your own car.

JEB BUSH: Buy Chipotle, take it home. But we normally cook our own food, our own Mexican food at home. It's pretty good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The fact that his wife is Mexican. I don't know, David Gergen, is that effective coming from a Bush?

GERGEN: I thought it was fine. He's very low key. Let me go back to Martha's central point which I absolutely agree with. That authenticity is something that's very, very desirable in today's politics. Voters are hungry for it.

My point about Hillary is this. That she's a very complex person. There is a side of her that is warm, that is accessible , that's really caring. Happy to sit down with both. But there's another side of her that is tough as nails, will make hard calls.

I wrote a book about hard decisions. There's part of her that can get angry.

[16:30:00] There are different parts to her that I think -- what I hope in the campaign is that we see all of Hillary and doesn't stress one aspect, which can be a distortion. The warm and fuzzy Hillary is certainly not all of who she is.

HARLOW: David Gergen and Martha Pease, thank you very much.

It's a fascinating op-ed, Martha.

MARTHA PEASE, DEMANDWERKS: Thank you.

HARLOW: If you want to read it, just go to CNN.com. It's called "Hillary Clinton's sneakily brilliant launch," at CNN.com.

David, Martha, thank you so much.

Coming up next, only the strong will survive at the GOP summit in New Hampshire. Who's going to come out on top and is time running out for would-be contenders to become candidates?

We still got a long road ahead, but when do they officially have to jump in? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Count them, 19, 19 would-be Republican presidential hopefuls on the stump in New Hampshire this weekend. The question becomes, how does one differentiate themselves from the others? How do they break away from the pack?

Here to discuss, two people who know a lot about the political right, Republican strategist Tara Setmayer, and also Ben Ferguson, host of "The Ben Ferguson Show".

Let me begin with you. When we look at this, I don't know -- I see them and they are all bashing the current administration. They are not really taking on one another yet, which I think is an interesting strategy. Who is standing out to you the most and why?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This weekend or overall?

HARLOW: This weekend. SETMAYER: I think this weekend we had had a couple of interesting

stories.

I think Marco Rubio continued on with the momentum he's had had since his announcement on Monday where he's raised about $41 million, or at least pledged that much. So, he's becoming flush with cash, which is always a good thing when you're a candidate.

I think that a couple people, like Carly Fiorina, she continued on with her momentum as well. She's still generating some buzz.

Rand Paul took a little bit of a swipe at Lindsey Graham a little bit.

[16:35:02] And then, I think someone that didn't stand out as much as people probably would have hoped was Jeb. I think Jeb had a mediocre performance. I think he came off a little -- not annoyed, I don't, but just a little people who know him know he's a little temperamental. And during the Q&A, he was very -- I don't think he was very natural and still uncomfortable with the idea of family legacy and he still hasn't learned how to answer that yet without coming across with a little bit of an attitude. He's got to work on that.

HARLOW: Interesting.

Ben, to you, we saw this commonality in some of the speeches, attacks on Hillary Clinton. Let's listen to some.

I think we have it, do we have that sound?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I'm starting to worry that when Hillary Clinton travels, there's going to be two planes. One for her and her entourage and one for her baggage.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Is that an effective way, Ben, in the primary --

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I do.

HARLOW: -- when you're trying to be the one to win your party? Is that the most effective way?

FERGUSON: Look, I think it's smart. You don't want to get into beating each other up too soon and too early because it's still a long way before anyone gets to vote in a primary. I think what you're seeing is the candidates are trying to decide who they are going to be and how they are going to market themselves.

The first fight you're going to see is going to be between Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. They are very close, they have a lot of the same people, same donors. I think Rubio honestly shocked most people in the GOP with the amount of money he was able to raise. People thought he's like the kid brother to Jeb Bush, there's no way he's going to beat him out.

He's really become his own man. I think that's pretty impressive. But at this point in the campaign, you're still trying to find out, who is your base and who are your donors? And there's no reason to beat up one another just yet.

HARLOW: Tara, it's interesting, I want to pull up a quote from an interview that one of the Bush supporters, Jeb Bush supporters, gave to "Politico". It says, quote, "I love Jeb more than anything, but Rubio has the same ideas and he's a better messenger with a better story."

Is that true?

SETMAYER: I think absolutely true. And this is going to be -- Ben is right, I think one of the biggest fights we're going to see intraparty is going to be between the Rubio and Bush camps.

Marco Rubio brings a more authentic story. He comes from an immigrant background. His story is compelling. He's fresher. He is a better communicator, much more comfortable in front of people. Not saying that Jeb wasn't a great governor, but he's been out of the political fray for a long time, and he comes from a political dynasty and people don't want this.

HARLOW: Ben, to that -- I mean, respond to that, Ben, but David just said that traditionally, former governors made more effective president.

SETMAYER: That's true.

HARLOW: You've got that in Jeb. And you have a first termer in Congress with Rubio.

FERGUSON: I'm not disagreeing with that, per se. But the big court issue here is when you look at Rubio, is he a guy that people are still aren't that familiar with? One of the reasons governors do so well is people pay attention to them and their ideas for the first time. What Rubio has been able to do with the rest and the money he's been raising, he's been able to come out as somewhat of an outside of Washington unknown.

A lot of people may have mentioned the name or heard the name or known there was something funny with a water bottle one time back in the day that people talked about on "Saturday Night Live", but they really didn't know him as a person. He's incredibly energetic, he's incredibly charismatic, and the biggest issue, the biggest perk of being Marco Rubio is his last name is not Bush. And I think that may be one of the things that people totally underestimate is how tired people are of hearing the last name Clinton and how tired they are hearing the last name Bush.

And, Rubio, I think a lot of people underestimated him. SETMAYER: That's right. Even though they keep saying he's polling at

6 percent, just like Ben said, people don't know him yet. That's an asset for him. Absolutely.

HARLOW: Guys, we have to go. Out of time. Thank you so much. Tara, Ben, appreciate it.

Coming up next, totally switching gears talking about pot. For decades, the only people making money off marijuana were those willing to break the law to sell it. But in places where weed is now legal, more and more people are finding it to be a real cash crop.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:03] HARLOW: Marijuana lovers across the country are gathering in Denver's huge 420 festival today. Live pictures of the festival. It's been more than a year since Colorado legalized recreational marijuana use.

CNN's new original series "High Profits" follows a couple on their way to making millions off marijuana.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got cash. It's cash only. Everyone's cool with that?

All right. Sorry, guys. End of the night. I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought you closed at 10:00?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, our last transaction has to happen at 10:00. So, I apologize for confusion. But 8:00 a.m. tomorrow? All right. Thanks.

Right. Well, you kicked some ass, good job, first day working there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you guys count your tip jars yet? They made like an extra 60 or 70 bucks over there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Kate, how'd we end up?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Over $47,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $47,000. Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's so much unorganized money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did about 30 times our normal daily sales from medical marijuana by switching to retail marijuana. This is why we had to be open on the first.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unreal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what happens when you legalize marijuana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: You just saw the piles of cash that that couple made from legally selling marijuana in Colorado. They have to take cash and a lot of that can cause a big problem in terms of how to bank it.

Brian Ruden joins me now. He owns four pot dispensaries. He's with us from Denver.

Thanks for being with me.

BRIAN RUDEN, CITI-MED OWNER: It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

HARLOW: This is one of the things that I think people don't think about when they say, wow, I could make millions selling marijuana, this is a sure fire business venture.

[16:45:04] The problem is it is still illegal on a federal basis, so banks don't want to touch it. How have you handled that?

RUDEN: Well, it really is a big challenge to being in the industry. One of the things that I have done is I pay most of my venders in cash. I pay my net payroll in cash. And I have been buying some real estate and found some sellers willing to accept cash.

But it is an ongoing problem. I haven't pulled a credit card out of my pocket to pay for dinner in the last four years.

HARLOW: Wow, so it's interesting you bring up real estate. You're buying real estate to put the money somewhere. Then, what, you're re- fi and pulling some of the cash out selling? What are you doing to actually, you know, move the money?

RUDEN: Well, I really haven't been moving it. What I have been doing is diversifying because I'm so vested in the marijuana industry. Buying some commercial properties to just hold on to them and rent. And I have been using cash flow to expand my business as well.

So, Starbuds is opening two additional dispensaries in the next 90 days.

HARLOW: Your story is pretty remarkable. A lot of people might think is this like a stoner who all of a sudden just launched had this business -- no. You went to law school and you said you had to sort of love affair with marijuana and then you told your family you weren't actually a lawyer, you were going to go into this instead. How hard of a time have you had getting people to take you seriously as a businessman?

RUDEN: Well, when I first transitioned from practicing law to growing and selling marijuana, it was very hard. But now the public opinion has changed.

In Colorado especially, marijuana has become much more mainstream. I think now more people look up to someone like me and I get a lot of people that want to get into the industry seeking my advice. So it's definitely been an evolution over the last several years. HARLOW: What do you say to children? There's still an age

restriction here. With it being legal recreationally, there's also that line you have to walk.

RUDEN: Well, very important, marijuana is not for children. Colorado is very strict about that. This is a product for adults 21 and over. And all the dispensaries, mine and everyone in the state, every single person is carded. So even if you look 70, you'll be carded.

HARLOW: Brian Ruden, thanks for joining us.

It's been interesting to see how many entrepreneurs have had such success with all of this. Appreciate it and good luck to you, sir.

For our viewers, you can follow the adventures of two more marijuana moguls tomorrow night, premiere of CNN's new original series, "High Profits", starting tomorrow night, at 10:00 p.m. and Pacific, only right here on CNN.

Still to come here in the NEWSROOM, scientists are starting to find new medical uses for marijuana. One of those could soon be a treatment for those with PTSD. More from our Sanjay Gupta, next.

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HARLOW: Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back with his three-year investigation into medical marijuana. The latest installment "Weed 3: The Marijuana Revolution" follows the journey of a veteran with PTSD who tried to commit suicide, failed and turned to marijuana at the last resort.

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CHRISSY KIERNAN, WIFE OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA PATIENT: I really came to the conclusion that it was really the medicine for him.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It seemed very effective?

KIERNAN: It does seem very effective.

GUPTA: But for Shawn (ph), it's trial and error. How much to use? When to use? Or even the best strains? And how will it affect him long-term? That's why the studies are needed.

How much does it concern you that there's not a lot of science behind this? There hasn't really been studies, at least not in this country.

KIERNAN: If he wasn't doing this, the fear is he wouldn't be here. So if there are some side effects that we're going to have to deal with down the road that haven't been studied yet, I figure we'll take that when it comes. But for now, the children have my husband and father with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us.

It's a fascinating documentary, Sanjay. Congrats to you and your team on it. Let's talk about Shawn. What was stunning to me is he struggled so much with PTSD, you know, he even tried to take his own life. He says marijuana has changed the way he thinks, dreams, concentrates?

GUPTA: It's pretty remarkable. It's his story, but we wanted to show it to you because it's emblematic. We think of so many other stories out there. Post-traumatic stress is very hard to treat. You know, 22 veterans are killing themselves every day in this country. The options that are available to them are not very effective.

And that's part of what Shawn's story was as well. He got to the point he was suicidal. It seems to work for him. It's now part of a study, a federally approved study, which is going to answer some of the important questions -- when to use, what do you specifically, how to use, all these types of questions need to be answered.

For him, it's trial and error. That's not an ideal situation for him. It worked, but it's got to be better than that. There have been more studies approved federally in the last 12 months than in the previous 12 years.

And I think part of it is mainstream scientists are now jumping into this area where they have previously been unwilling to dip a toe. They have a better idea of how it works. With post-traumatic stress, want to show you an example of what scientists think is happening in the brain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: People have an imbalance in their brain. Too many receptors associated with intense emotions like fire and anxiety and not enough of a chemical that binds to the receptors to keep them calm and in check. Marijuana is filled with a chemical that can bind these receptors and restore balance to the PTSD brain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: It gives you an idea. Now we're seeing it can work. Starting to prove that in studies and showing the mechanism by which this can all happen.

HARLOW: Sanjay, this has been in many ways a personal journey for you, as a doctor, as a journalist.

[16:55:02] You just wrote this fascinating op-ed on CNN.com, called "It's Time for a Medical Marijuana Revolution". For you what has stood out the most? What's been the most surprising part or toughest part in reporting all this? It's still very controversial.

GUPTA: It is very controversial. The first documentary a couple years ago now, it was a bit of a lonely process in some ways because no one really wanted to talk to us. Government officials, the heads of the agencies, patients even were suspicious about talking to the media.

And, you know, look, I have been hard on medicinal marijuana in the past because I didn't find the evidence that compelling in years past. I think what was surprising to me was that once you started to look at the data differently, when you started to dig deeper and say why were these studies done looking at harm and not benefit, you started to question a lot of the things that you receive, a lot of the data you receive you learn how to dig much, much deeper than you normally would. In this case, it took us around the world, looking in other countries in non-federally funded labs.

But I think, you know, Poppy, as journalists, you, me, I think it's our responsibility to always do that. We try and do our best, we dig, dig, dig. But as you dig deeper in this particular story, you find that the odds are always stacked against medicinal marijuana for the several decades. And finally, some of that is starting to change.

HARLOW: Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

HARLOW: It's a fascinating look at this. Go to CNN.com and read his op-ed. Then tune in "Weed 3: The Marijuana Revolution" premiering only right here on Sunday night on CNN, 9:00 Eastern and Pacific.

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