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Train Driver Agrees to Interview; Deadly Derailment Speed; Amnesia as a Defense; Stephanopoulos Apologizes; Jeb Bush Comments. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 15, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:05] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And we have to begin today in Philadelphia where at any time this train driver in this Amtrak crash, the engineer, will tell investigators exactly what he remembers about the minutes before that derailment. He is Brandon Bostian. He is in the hospital, apparently suffering memory loss after his train rolled. But really a bigger question right now is this, what the nine-year Amtrak veteran can add to what the evidence already shows. His lawyer says he does want to cooperate fully, but the thing is, he can't remember the crash.

But the evidence here in this case doesn't lie. What we now know is that not only did the train not slow down as it entered that dangerous curve, we've actually learned now it sped up from 70 miles an hour to more than 100 miles an hour. And it happened in just more than a minute.

Bostian isn't saying much right now, as we mentioned, but his friends, his colleagues are speaking out on his behalf, saying he never would have been deliberately reckless. It was a claim made by Philadelphia's mayor in the hours after that train derailment. And we'll hear from one of those friends in just a minute. But first let's go straight to the scene, to my colleague, CNN's Erin McLaughlin, for just more on the investigation today.

And then I do know, Erin, there was some back and forth, but now this engineer, he has agreed to talk to investigators, yes?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Brooke. And NTSB investigators say that when they do meet with 32-year-old Brandon Bostian, they're going to hand him a blank piece of paper and a pen and ask him to paint a picture of everything he remembers from that tragic night. His testimony really being seen as crucial in all of this.

A key question at this point, of course, is why did that train accelerate? Now, the NTSB says that they believe that a little over a minute prior to the crash, the train began to speed up at a time when it should have been slowing down. Just before it approached the curve, they say that they believe that the engineer hit the emergency brakes, but at that point it was too late. Seconds later, they say the train crashed. Now, that timeline comes from a detailed analysis of footage that was

obtained from the camera positioned - a forward-facing camera position at the front of the train. But, of course, that footage doesn't tell them why. They hope to learn more from Bostian when they meet with him. But failing that, they say that they do have that black box, the data recorder that was on that train, and they can analyze information from that as well.

BALDWIN: Well, -- I know you've been looking through some of Bostian's social media posts. We're all trying to learn a little bit more about this - this train engineer. What did you find out, Erin?

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, well, Bostian seems to have been someone who's very concerned with train safety. He's very worried about that. In a series of online postings, he sort of laments the fact that the railroads did not do more to - were not more proactive in implementing safety systems, such as the Positive Train Control System. The very same system that the NTSB says could have potentially averted the Amtrak 188 tragedy.

Let me just read to you one of the postings that we believe was from Bostian on - at a train forum site. It's dated back to March 11, 2011. In that posting, he writes, "I wish the railroads had been more proactive in adopting active signaling systems from the get-go. It's easy for them to cry foul that the 2015 deadline is unreasonable. But the reality is that they have had nearly 100 years of opportunity to implement some sort of system to mitigate human error, but with a few notable exceptions have failed to do so." He's referring there to the 2015 congress mandated deadline for the implementation of Positive Train Control.

We've also been hearing from his friends, talking about just how important train safety was to him.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Erin McLaughlin, thank you so much. Obviously hearing the train whistle, not everything shut down behind you. Thank you so much, in Philadelphia.

Let's stay on this engineer, Brandon Bostian. We're hearing more from his friends and acquaintances. So as I mentioned a moment ago, you know, they have been speaking out since this deadly crash. Earlier today, CNN heard from Bostian's best friend. James Weir said he and Bostian had previously discussed the difficulty of this particular route, the northeast corridor. And just two hours after the crash, Weir spoke to Bostian in the hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES WEIR, FRIEND WHO SPOKE WITH AMTRAK ENGINEER AFTER CRASH: He did not remember much and he couldn't remember much. He said he had some staples and some stitches and he was sore. He was in some pain. He was not at all sure of himself at that point. And just as far as what was going on, I think he was still in shock. You could tell he was in shock. [14:05:15] He did tell me that it was a challenging route. He told me

that it's hard to stay on schedule all the time because he wants to make sure that he takes the time to perform all of the safety requirements each and every trip.

I don't think this is his fault. I don't believe that it's his fault. Brandon's not the kind of guy, even if he was going through a hard time, he would not do this. He would not let it affect his work at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Bostian has told police he couldn't remember his speed. But as I mentioned, we now know that this train was barreling into this curve at more than 100 miles per hour before it derailed. And it was - the question, was this acceleration a deliberate move perhaps? Could this have happened by accident?

Let's go live to Duluth, Georgia, and to the Southeastern Railroad Museum where locomotive engineer Barret Hayes is sitting there in the cab of this train.

So, Barret, thank you so much for coming on with me, first of all.

BARRET HAYES, LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER: Yes, ma'am. My pleasure.

BALDWIN: You know, I think our viewers can figure this out pretty quickly. Obviously, you know, you're sitting in a very different train than that of the train that derailed in Philadelphia. It was Amtrak ACS64 (ph). But, you know, in terms of the fundamentals of the role of an engineer, have to be pretty similar to where you are. I mean can you, you know, just walk me through the basics of the controls and just show me around a little bit.

HAYES: Right. Sure. So right here is the throttle. So this one has eight notches on it. That controls your acceleration and speed. This is the reverser. This controls forward and reverse movement. Forward is up here, neutral is here, this is reverse. This is the independent brake. This controls only the brakes on the locomotive itself. This is the train brake. And, of course, this controls the brakes on the train itself. This is the headlight switch here, forward, off, reverse. And this is the belt switch here and then the horn right here.

BALDWIN: OK. Now that you've gone through that, let me back you up to the first thing I think you pointed out, the accelerator, because now that we know that this train did accelerate, I want you to show me exactly how one would accelerate a train because we're trying to figure out how this possibly could have happened going into this curve.

HAYES: So in order to accelerate a train, you'd actually have to physically open the throttle out, like so. Obviously we're sitting still, so I'm going to keep the reverser in neutral for this. But during acceleration, you just want to keep opening your throttle like so. Then to slow down, you start closing the throttle bit by bit. If you're trying to slow down, you'd also put on your train brake and then try to keep your engine brakes off while you're doing so to keep the train stretched out so that way you don't cause discomfort for the passengers or damage any of the equipment.

BALDWIN: Oh, wow. OK. So it's a couple of steps at a time just to do that one thing.

Let me ask you, since we're looking at a much older train, how similar would the throttle essentially, the function of the throttle, the back and the forth, accelerating, decelerating, would that be essentially the same as this 2014 Amtrak model that we're talking about?

HAYES: The throttle has the same basic function on both locomotives. It's just for controlling your acceleration. But this, again, is a different locomotive, so it's not going to be exactly identical. But like I said, the function itself is the same, yes, ma'am.

BALDWIN: OK. You know, there's a lot we still don't know about what happened here before this train derailment in Philadelphia, but if the engineer - let's say this engineer, you know, fell asleep, you know, somehow obviously became unconscious, is it possible to accidently hit that throttle and speed up the train?

HAYES: In theory, you could always, by accidently hitting the throttle, by actually physically opening it through some motion, you could, of course, speed up the train. But it would take some type of probably conscious movement to do so, especially at least with this locomotive, this type of throttle. But it could be (ph). But, in general, I'm not familiar with the type of throttle on that particular locomotive, how easy it is to move. That's outside my field of experience.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

HAYES: So, but in general, it would not be, no, ma'am.

BALDWIN: What about - there's also been talk, Barret, of, you know, (INAUDIBLE), it's called, like a dead man switch. Can you explain that to me?

HAYES: Ma'am? Hello? Hello?

BALDWIN: Barret, it's Brooke. You're on TV. Can you - do you hear me? Can you give me a thumbs up?

Doesn't - OK, we lost him. We're going to work on that. Technology happens on live TV. We'll move on. We'll get him again. Barret Hayes there in Duluth, Georgia, the Southeastern Railroad Museum.

Let's move on. The engineer's lawyer here says his client doesn't remember the crash. What about amnesia? Is that a viable defense? We'll talk to a lawyer about that next.

Also ahead, the future of train travel is a pod going more than 700 miles an hour. Makers of the Hyperloop claim it doesn't risk human error. [14:10:05] And the wreckage of the missing U.S. helicopter in that

earthquake zone has just been found. We are now learning the fates of the six Marines on board.

Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And while we still don't know the cause of this week's deadly derailment on that Amtrak train in Philadelphia, we do know that train engineer Brandon Bostian sayings he has, quote, "absolutely no recollection" whatsoever of what happened the night of the crash. According to NTSB he said the last thing he remembers, coming up upon that curve, hitting the emergency brake trying to slow down. He says when he came to, he pulled his phone out, turned it on, dialed 911, realizing the train had crashed.

And, of course, in the wake of this wreck, eight people are dead and more than 200 others were injured. There have been no charges filed against Bostian, and he has agreed to talk to NTSB investigators. But one question that's being thrown out there, could amnesia potentially be used as a defense in court?

[14:15:10] Joining me to discuss is CNN legal analyst and senior trial counselor for Callan Legal, Paul Callan.

And so, Paul, not to confuse our viewers, this is not like he's saying amnesia. And we've heard from doctors saying he could regain some of his memory. When would amnesia even been applicable?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It really would never be applicable in a criminal case because, remember, amnesia is just an inability to remember what happened. The real issue is, what did happen? Was he using illegal substances? Was he aware of a health condition that would have caused him to be a danger in operating the train? I'm not saying that he did these things, but those could be possibly criminal if they should develop. The mere fact that he cannot remember it would not make him innocent or for that matter guilty of a crime.

BALDWIN: To be fair to him, we know he's given up blood samples, right, so that's for the toxicology report. We know he's given up his cell phone to see if he was on the phone texting, et cetera. His lawyer says it was off.

But back to this point of saying he can't remember. How would that at all factor in if NTSB comes to him and really, you know, and even waits over a period of time hoping his memory returns and it doesn't, then what?

CALLAN: Well, you know, from the standpoint of their investigation, of course, it's very troublesome. And also I would have to say, even in terms of a criminal investigation, a lot of people are going to think it's pretty fishy. I mean he went to the hospital. He was released. He did have a number of stitches in his head, but it's rare for somebody to have total amnesia in the presence just of a single concussion.

But I will tell you, there was a case involving Metro North here in Manhattan, a train crash, people killed, and the engineer said that he had sleep apnea and that it had caused him to pass out while operating the train. And you know something, no criminal charges have been lodged in that case because it was apparently a health condition that he was unaware of. So you may see a claim like that in this case as well.

BANFIELD: All right. Paul, thank you very much.

CALLAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Some bad weather has forced search crews to abandon recovery efforts at the crash site of that U.S. Marine helicopter in Nepal. The wreckage was discovered earlier today on a steep slope there in the Himalayan Mountains just east of the capital city of Kathmandu. The U.S. military says it is unlikely anyone survived the crash. Weather permitting, the recovery will resume tomorrow. Six U.S. marines and two Nepalese troops were delivering supplies to victims of those two massive earthquakes when that helicopter went down.

For more information on how you can help the victims of the earthquakes in Nepal, we've created a website for you. We've vetted all the charities. So just go to our Impact Your World site, cnn.com/impact.

Coming up next, George Stephanopoulos apologizes this morning for contributions he made multiple times to the global - Clinton Global Foundation and recuses himself from moderating any presidential debates. Let's discuss that with Michael Smerconish.

Plus, as we continue talking here about this Amtrak train crash, the future of train travel, did you know, is a pod traveling more than 700 miles an hour. Makers of the Hyperloop claim it doesn't risk human error. We'll show you what that means coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:33] BALDWIN: Not such a good morning for George Stephanopoulos, ABC's chief anchor. He felt compelled to apologize, not just for failing to reveal he donated a total of $75,000 to the Clinton Foundation, but also for donating in the first place. Early on in his career, Stephanopoulos did serve as communications director for Bill Clinton's first presidential campaign and ultimately became a senior adviser in that administration. But I want you to hear, this is Stephanopoulos on "Good Morning America" today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC ANCHOR & FORMER ADVISER TO BILL CLINTON: Over the last several years, I've made substantial donations to dozens of charities, including the Clinton Global Foundation. Those donations were a matter of public record, but I should have made additional disclosures on air when we covered the foundation. And I now believe that directing personal donations to that foundation was a mistake. Even though I made them strictly to support work done to stop the spread of AIDS, help children and protect the environment in poor countries, I should have gone the extra mile to avoid even the appearance of a conflict. I apologize to all of you for failing to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this with CNN political commentator Michael Smerconish and host of CNN's "Smerconish."

You know, listen, here's the deal. Technically the Clinton Foundation is a charitable organization, though I know Republicans would, you know, definitely beg to differ. Do you think this is a serious mistake or do you think this whole thing has just, you know, gotten blown up merely for political reasons?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's a significant issue. I think it's a legitimate, serious issue in which he's mistaken. I would give him a pass, Brooke, for having made the donations. I was surprised that in his apology this morning that he said that he regretted making the donations and regretted the fact that he hasn't made the disclosure. To me, it's principally a disclosure issue. He was a very harsh interrogator of Peter Schweitzer, the author of "Clinton Cash," and at a minimum, when he conducted that interview, I think he had an obligation to say, I should tell you and tell all the viewers, I personally contributed $75,000 to the Clinton Foundation.

BALDWIN: A lot of, you know, Republicans have taken this and run with it, but my question is actually also on the Dem side because, looking ahead, if George Stephanopoulos, and he covers politics extremely well, but if he gets an interview with a high-level Democrat, not Hillary Clinton, you know, if you're George Stephanopoulos, are you going to go out of your way to prove that you're not in camp Clinton?

SMERCONISH: You and I are on the same wavelength. As you well know, he has said, I'm opting out of the Republican debates. He hasn't said anything relative to the fall. There are Republicans who are calling for him to quote/unquote sit this one out. That's what one lawmaker said.

[14:25:04] And as I was reading the stories, Brooke, like you I said to myself, maybe it's the Democrats who should be hoping that he sits this one out because George Stephanopoulos, if you remember in the '08 cycle, he was a very direct questioner of Hillary Clinton. And so, you know, I don't know that you want to be the Democratic candidate with him as the moderator, given that he'll feel the need perhaps to overcompensate for this.

BALDWIN: Wondering about. Just wondering about that side as well. That hasn't been discussed as much.

But let's pivot to Jeb Bush, shall we? It has been, what, his fifth comment on one single issue in one week. He's now saying, you know, he would not have - knowing what he knows now, he would not have pushed for the war in Iraq. Here's what he said most recently. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: So here's the deal. If we're all supposed to answer hypothetical questions, knowing what we know now, what would you have done, I would have not engaged, I would not have gone into Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I think, just to give him a little bit of credit, I mean this is someone who's definitely been putting himself out there, right? He's been, you know, taking questions from media. He's been taking questions from a 19-year-old student. But, you know, when we go back to the original comment, which was when he was being interviewed by Fox News Channel's Megyn Kelly, he says he misheard her, thus his response. I'm wondering, though, what do you, Michael Smerconish, what do you think is at the heart of all this, this week with him?

SMERCONISH: Well, I find it interesting that he said, you know, if I'm going to have to answer hypotheticals. Brooke, the entire exercise is a hypothetical. This entire process until November of 2016 -

BALDWIN: Is a hypothetical.

SMERCONISH: Is a hypothetical of what if you're elected president, you know? What shocks me most about this is, is it was - it was not - it was not a hard-hitting question. It was not a gotcha question. As you point out, it was put to him by Megyn Kelly at Fox. It was a perfectly reasonable question. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he misheard the question and went into this auto pilot mode.

By, my God, four days ago he should have said, you really think I'd go into Iraq knowing there were not weapons of mass destruction? Hell, my brother wouldn't have done that. Why he stammered for four days, I don't know. And, you know, running a campaign in Florida, I mean that's big time, but that's not like running for the presidency.

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish, thank you, as always, for our Friday chats.

SMERCONISH: You too.

BALDWIN: We'll see you tomorrow morning, 9:00 a.m. Eastern, here on CNN. Michael Smerconish there.

Coming up next, traveling at speeds more than 700 miles per hour. The creator of what's being called the Hyperloop says this train tube would mean human error will not be the cause of crashes. We'll talk about what that could mean for all of us.

Plus, new video surfaces on the shooting involving Wisconsin officer and an unarmed man. The officer not facing charges in his death, which is leading to even more protests.

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