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U.S. Special Forces Kill Top ISIS Commander; Amtrak's Liability on Train Derailment; Anti-ISIS Raid Led by U.S. Army's Delta Force; GOP Governors Balance Home, Nationwide Support. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 16, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:05] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: 4:00 Eastern here in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you from New York. And we begin with this.

More than 100 U.S. special operations forces involved in a raid that ended in the death of an ISIS commander in Syria. A U.S. official telling CNN a fire fight broke out almost immediately as U.S. troops moved in for this raid with ISIS fighters using women and children as human shields.

U.S. special forces able to kill those ISIS fighters without harming, we are told, women or children or any other casualties there on the ground outside of ISIS fighters.

The main target is Abu Sayyaf. He is described as a Tunisian citizen who has served as ISIS's chief financial officer, their top money man running the group's stolen oil and gas fields and selling them on the black market. More recently though he had taken on a bigger role and may have had deep knowledge of the group's hostage operations, possibly eve directly communicating with ISIS's top leader, Abu Bakar Al-Bagdadi. Special ops forces also managing to capture Sayyaf's wife along with reams and reams of data, laptops, cell phones with information. They hope to glean on how ISIS operates and how ISIS makes its money.

CNN's senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh has more on the mission.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Abu Sayyaf, not particularly well known, in terms of ISIS leadership circles. A name who the United States says was behind the money, was behind the oil, which used to make so much of its money and was increasingly involved in their military operations.

We don't know his real name. Abu Sayyaf just means the father of Sayyaf, and his wife who was captured, he was killed in this raid. Umm Sayyaf means the mother of Sayyaf. So more details, I think, people will be looking for the U.S. to provide exactly why this man was so important because they endured an enormous risk in going to get him. We're told this was a capture mission, not a kill mission. In a kill mission they could simply have used a drone. They were after intelligence. They were after the things that he knew and the things that his computers and phones perhaps had on them as well.

So very complex, indeed, that they decided to take this risk because they flew into one of the most dangerous parts of ISIS-held territory, deep inside in Syria. The (INAUDIBLE) oil field known to be an ISIS military base, a three to five kilometre security perimeter around it. Airstrikes, witnesses speaking to us softening there beforehand.

Then Delta forces came on in, hand to hand fighting, bloody knuckles among those soldiers and extraordinarily a vicious fight for this man Abu Sayyaf who they hoped they could capture alive despite the lengthy history of ISIS leadership, worshipping death in their jihad.

So a complex task certainly for U.S. commanders here and one that leaves them with, they say, substantial intelligence about how ISIS works and this detainee, Umm Sayyaf. But 19 ISIS fighters killed in this. Some of them said to be foreign and questions, of course, being asked as to why the U.S. is now willing to endure this substantial risk.

A difficult operation to explain to the American public had it tragically gone wrong given the promises Barack Obama made that he won't put U.S. boots on the ground in the Middle East during this tenure. Perhaps we are seeing maybe a higher risk tolerance from the White House in what they are willing to do when going after ISIS's leadership. But it's a stark intervention here one in which the White House said it was successful in killing a man they had in fact hoped to capture.

Still too many questions as to exactly what was entirely in the U.S. crosshairs during this raid.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Beirut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Nick, thank you for that.

Let's discuss this and new details about how this raid happened with Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling. He's a CNN military analyst and retired Army former commanding general for Europe and the 7th Army. Thank you for being with me, General, I appreciate it.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to be with you, Poppy.

HARLOW: So I wanted to tell you some new details we just learned here at CNN. We just learned from a U.S. official familiar with this operation that ISIS tried to use women and children as shields. They placed women and children in front of them as human shields.

Apparently the U.S. government is saying they were able to kill about a dozen ISIS fighters and carry out this operation without killing any of those women and children. Take us inside of what something like this would look like.

HERTLING: Well, first of all, it was an excellently executed mission by the special operations command, joint special operations command. Any kind of target like this, you would expect to run into potentially civilians, although I'm sure they had a great deal of information. You always do with a JSOC force before they go in.

[16:05:00]

I would suggest that they have probably been watching this target and collecting intelligence on this target for days, weeks and perhaps even months. They know there's going to be civilians in this kind of area. You know that when you plan on operation. There are going to be key targets, individuals, Abu Sayyaf may have been one, but the important part is collecting the intelligence associated with these kinds of targets, as Nick said, the cell phones, papers and those things.

When you go into what a military calls k/c or kill/capture target, you know that you're going into danger, but you do want to try and bring them out as prisoners if you can for further interrogation. Poppy.

HARLOW: We're also told that this happened at a multistory building that was pretty heavily defended by ISIS fighters inside and outside. How well equipped is the ISIS army?

HERTLING: Well, they are very well equipped, but in these kinds of operations, again, JSOC will practice and rehearse these kind of operations. They know the target buildings. Delta force uses something called task force 160, the night stalkers, which is a group of helicopters. As I understand it, they also use some VC22 OST Prees in this mission as well. The tilt rotor aircraft. So they know they have to be in and out of the target very quickly.

They probably landed some of the commandoes on the roof of the building, some on the base of the building. But this is a significant hit and it appears like there's a great deal of intelligence gained from it.

HARLOW: Well, that's the thing that's so remarkable if indeed there is a great deal of intelligence gathered from it. How did they have time while they were carrying this out to gather up what sounds like a significant number of laptops, cell phones, et cetera given the fact that all indications showed they didn't kill all of the ISIS fighters that were surrounding this building.

HERTLING: Well, they know for the most part they know what's there when they are going in. Poppy, I had the opportunity when I was commanding forces in northern Iraq to go along with a special operations raid. We used to have anywhere from five to 15 of them every night in our area. We worked very closely with JSOC and some of the teams that they had.

It's fascinating to watch the things that they do. It is such a well- trained team. There will be some that are certainly targeted on the individuals. They know what they have to do to engage targets, but there are some who also have as part of their mission to collect data. Sometimes it's called pocket litter. Sometimes it's as big as a computer or a file cabinet, but they know that based on the target and the intelligence they have what exactly is going to be there, how much stuff they are going to be carrying out. There are certainly at times surprises, but for the most part, they know what they are trying to get when they go in and out based on either overhead imagery, signals intelligence, human intelligence, people on the ground giving information, a series of these kind of things are all coming together whenever you conduct these kind of raids.

HARLOW: All right. General Hertling , thank you very much, appreciate it.

For all of you, do not miss "Blindsided, how ISIS Shook the World." Fareed Zakaria reports, a special report Sunday night at 7:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only right here on CNN.

Also I want to bring you this. For a lot of people in a large part of the central United States, right now, there's a tornado watch in effect for the next few hours. Pedram Javaheri joins me now from the CNN severe weather center. Give us a sense of how big the spread is and where specifically we're talking about?

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. Good afternoon to you, Poppy. Very similar to what we saw last week when it comes to the large scale threat across the country. 24 million people area indicated in the red, about three million people and that's where the highest likely hood, a moderate risk for severe weather issued by the storm prediction center. You think about a moderate to slight, what does it mean in relation to the actual region here.

On a scale of one to five, a moderate is a four. So a pretty expansive area for severe weather. From Wichita down to Oklahoma City, a trio of weather threats, the large hail, damaging winds, winds over 60 miles per hour and certainly hail over one inch in diameter, possibility and also some isolated tornadoes, long (INAUDIBLE) tornadoes in some of these regions, some of the main threats around Oklahoma City, Moore, into the evening and afternoon hours there for some of these storms to begin to pop up. So we're watching that carefully.

But here's the set up. We have yet again the cold and dry air beginning to shift in out of the north and west clashing with the warm and moist coming out of south and east. The area of interest is right there where we talked about when it comes to severe weather and the pattern really expected to continue not only just through tonight but potentially later on Sunday afternoon as well for even a wider area. But here are the tornado watches.

Over 570,000 people impacted by this around Amarillo. Meaning the storms at this hour, tornadoes are favorable across these regions. This expires at 8:00 p.m. local time. You shift your attention to the north, western Kansas, (INAUDIBLE) towards Dodge City about 200,000 people dealing with this. That expires, Poppy, around 9:00 p.m. Central Time and again we've had multiple reports of tornadoes over the past hour or so.

[16:10:00]

At this point, tornado warning there across Collinsworth county (INAUDIBLE) one of the cities there. If you're in that city, certainly the best time to get to the lowest point of your home. Get away from windows, the radar-indicated tornado on the ground across that region.

So one of those nights where going to be on top of these storms as they progress.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Pedram, thanks, appreciate it.

Coming up next, the federal government demanding changes for an Amtrak train derailed this week, killing eight people, injuring more than 200. We'll talk about the changes, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Five days after eight people were killed in a horrific Amtrak train derailment, Amtrak is now being ordered by the federal government to make some immediate changes. Today, the Federal Railroad Commission oversees this demanding that Amtrak beef up technology by installing circuits to control speeds along the northeast corridor.

Trains also now must be equipped with a safety feature that automatically applies the brakes when a train is exceeding certain speeds. We know this train was going 106 miles per hour at that turn. NTSB investigators believe those safety features would have prevented the crash on Tuesday. The CEO of Amtrak also saying that they would.

A short time ago Amtrak issued this response. "Amtrak's overarching goal is to provide safe and secure rail passenger travel. We will immediately implement the Federal Railroad Administration's directive to further improve passenger safety along the northeast corridor."

In the meantime, investigators have made a stunning discovery around Tuesday's deadly Amtrak derailment. One of the three engineers interviewed by the NTSB said that the locomotive engineer on board that train reportedly had his windshield struck by some sort of object. Passengers aboard an Acela train which is a separate train and another separate train called Septa on that same corridor, on that same night had similar things happen. You see all of them on your screen there.

[16:15:00]

We know eight people lost their lives, more than 200 people were injured. Amtrak has already been hit with one lawsuit. More are likely to follow. So let's talk about this with criminal defense attorney, Brian Claypool. Thanks for being here, Brian. I appreciate it.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure, great to be back with you, Poppy.

HARLOW: You know, Brian, we know that the engineer here has been cooperating with the NTSB. He's been very cooperative. They also say though he cannot recall anything about the crash. If he is sued, and his memory does not come back, would he be able to use a lack of recollection as a defense in court?

CLAYPOOL: Well, yes, he would be able to use lack of recollection because he genuinely can't recall what happened leading up to the train derailing. And I think that would defeat any type of criminal prosecution as well.

Remember, you got a civil aspect of this and then a potential criminal prosecution for manslaughter. The fact that he can't remember what happened would be devastating to the prosecution trying to charge him with manslaughter. Then you got the issue of the positive track control. I don't think they can prosecute this engineer because his argument would be in a criminal case, hey, but for the fact that positive traffic control was not implemented, this accident would have never happened. So you have a causation issue.

HARLOW: Just so our viewers know what you're talking about, positive traffic control. That's something that's implemented on some parts of this rail line, not here, and it's something that automatically can slow down trains and actually it is mandated to be implemented on all parts of the tract by 2020.

CLAYPOOL: Right.

HARLOW: It just hasn't happened yet. You have said, Brian, that one of the really critical things you think is not getting enough attention is who owns this portion of the track. Why is that so key?

CLAYPOOL: Right, well, nobody is looking at this issue, Poppy. This goes to potential civil liability because as it stands right now, there's a $200 million cap on a single train disaster. So here we have eight folk who have tragically died, you got countless, close to 170, 180, other folks who have been injured. $200 million, Poppy, is not going to come close to compensating these individuals.

Now if this track was owned by a private freight company such as Union Pacific or a company named CSX, then the claimants in this case could sue in addition to Amtrak the private freight company and, guess what, there's an agreement in place between Amtrak and all these private freight companies where Amtrak would absorb all the financial liability. So let's say -

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Which means the taxpayer?

CLAYPOOL: Absolutely. What that means, Poppy, is there really would not be a $200 million cap if this curve where the derailment happened was owned by a private company, there is no $200 million cap. Amtrak would be on the hook for the entire amount.

HARLOW: If a person did throw something at this train, because one of my experts last hour was saying a rock flying up from the ground doesn't dent a windshield like this. It has a special glaze over it, this likely wouldn't be a rock. If someone threw something on this train, what does that do to the liability of Amtrak? CLAYPOOL: Well, I think that's a good question and the other guest you talked to, the engineer, he made a good point about if you look at the glass that's cracked there, and I have dealt with cases dealing with bullets, if that's just a rock, I don't think you're going to get that deep of a fracture in the windshield. I think there was something else. I don't know if it was a gun you would possibly retrieve the bullet.

But the issue is that Amtrak would still be liable for this incident. There would be an argument made by Amtrak, there's an intervening cause. They would argue well it wasn't the engineer's fault here. It was an intervening act that really caused the train to derail. But I think that would be a weak argument because you still have to explain how the speed increased so quickly and then the best argument is to defeat Amtrak using that as a defense is, look, you have known for 20 years about positive train control, which you have talked about where the brakes would have automatically come on once the speed goes too high.

That truly was the cause of this incident. In other words, had PTC been in place, this accident still does not happen. So I think Amtrak would be liable civilly with or without this rock or bullet.

HARLOW: Amtrak's own CEO said if PTC had been in place, then this wouldn't have happen. Pretty astonishing actually that it hasn't been mandated. Brian, we're out of time. I'm sorry hold your thought.

CLAYPOOL: OK. Thanks.

HARLOW: We'll talk more about it. Thanks for being on as always. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, fierce fighting in the battle for the Iraqi city of Ramadi. The fight has forced the United States to rush weapons to the battlefield. Now the tide may be turning in that key city against ISIS. We're live from Iraq, next.

[16:20:01]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The U.S. is rushing heavy weapons and ammunition to Iraq to aid Iraqi forces as they battle to try to retake the center of Ramadi that is a key strategic city from ISIS fighters. Sources say ISIS assault unfolded there on Thursday. Iraqi forces reportedly were pushed back as these ISIS fighters poured into the center of that city behind a wave of armored bulldozers and suicide car bombers. The militants have since abandoned some of those gains in anticipation of the coalition airstrikes and melted really into nearby neighborhoods.

Ramadi, if you remember, is the capital of Anbar province, is less than two hours away from Baghdad. House Speaker John Boehner saying the ISIS advance is specially troubling there saying "I remain gravely concerned by ISIL's assault on Ramadi that threatens the civility and sovereignty of Iraq, which is vital to America's interest." Journalist Mitchell Prothero covers Iraq and ISIS for McClatchy Newspapers. He joins me now from the Irbil. Thank you for being with me, Mitchel. What can you tell me in terms of what you're hearing on the ground there?

16:25:03

MITCHELL PROTHERO, CORRESPONDENT, MCCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS: Well, what we found today is the Iraqi government came out with a strongly worded announcement that it was dispatching three reginens to Ramadi a couple of days after the local forces that asked for them but they sent them out today, in order to try to retake the city.

We do have reports that after taking over the provincial government's sort of compound that sits in the center of Ramadi, we saw the footage that is dramatic, of the ISIS flag being flown over. Those positions have sort of been abandoned as the fighters have moved into residential neighborhoods to sort of prevent U.S. airstrikes from hitting them.

HARLOW: Interesting, your assessment is that you believe that the ISIS forces there in Ramadi have actually chosen willingly, chosen to withdraw from some of these bigger target buildings and sort of melted into nearby neighborhoods. Why is that and why do you believe that's their strategy right now?

PROTHERO: Well, because first off, it's an Iraqi government building, it's not an Islamic State government building. So they don't really care about it once the symbolism of it falling has been made apparent on TV and on the media. Their concern is taking over the city of Ramadi, which is the largest population center in Anbar province which is at this point, practically almost completely controlled by the Islamic State.

So they've got their eye on not a symbolic prize at this stage, but the actual substantiative one, which is taking over a city of 900,000 people and resisting the coming counterattack.

HARLOW: If the Iraqi forces, Iraqi security forces are successful in conquering and sort of retaking Ramadi, I just wonder how long, you think, that is sustainable. It seems like in these key cities that it's sort of back and forth, back and forth, ISIS takes over a big chunk. Iraqi forces retake it and it goes back and forth over. Do you believe the Iraqi forces are on the ground and strong enough to take Ramadi and secure it for good?

PROTHERO: Absolutely not. At this stage, the Iraqi military, which we saw last summer more or less completely collapsed as Mosul fell and the Islamic state pushed practically to the gates of Baghdad. What we found is that as they have tried to train units, there are about 5,000 to 10,000 well-trained Iraqi special forces units that are capable of fighting. They worked closely with the Americans and they are quite good in the field. There's only between 5,000 and 10,000 of them.

They are exhausted. They have been moved from Tikrit to (INAUDIBLE) to Ramadi, you know, they're basically being pushed all over the country, and you know, they're starting to wear thin. Whereas the average, typical Iraqi infantry unit is capable of manning check points and basically standing around and waiting for car bombs, which is going to make it incredibly difficult for them to hold any territory in Anbar.

HARLOW: Incredibly different kind of fighting they have to do now. Mitchell Prothero, live for us on the ground in Iribil. Thank you so much, appreciate it.

PROTHERO: It's always my pleasure.

HARLOW: One official calling the ISIS figure killed by the U.S. a CFO, a chief financial officer for the terror group. How big a blow is this to ISIS and their multimillion-dollar money machine? We'll talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Killing the man who controlled the funding of ISIS operations should be a major blow to the terror group, or is it? The answer may lie in whatever intelligence they were able to gain in this raid.

We know those Special Operations Forces were able to get their hands on a number of computers, communications equipment, cell phones, and also they captured Abu Sayyaf's wife. They're interrogating her right now and trying to find out what she may know about ISIS's operation, especially any hostages being held by ISIS. Also, who knows what will be found in those computer files?

Let's talk about all of this, the breaking developments, with Michael Weiss, he's an authority on ISIS. His book, "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror" delves deep into terror organization.

Also with me, Bob Baer, former CIA operative.

Guys, thanks for being here. Appreciate it.

Michael, let me begin with you. You have said it is unlikely, you don't think that this man, Abu Sayyaf, was the intended target of this raid.

MICHAEL WEISS, AUTHOR: Yes, there's been a little reporting to corroborate that. "The Daily Beast" had a piece quoting a senior U.S. official who said there were other targets in this raid. And by the time the Delta Force operatives got there, those targets have left.

Now, I'm quite keen to find out who those targets are.

HARLOW: And that's not been confirmed by us here at CNN.

WEISS: No, that hasn't been confirmed.

The reason I suspect this is the following -- up until now, a lot of people, myself included, analysts who covered ISIS, including some ISIS fighters themselves, hadn't had much of a profile of Abu Sayyaf. I mean, we're talking about him as a senior figure and high ranking official in the organization. He wasn't in the list of ten names that the U.S. government put out two weeks ago offering millions of dollars in bounty on their heads.

He hasn't been bandied about in the intelligence circles or by the Pentagon up until now. Now, according to reporting President Obama planned this raid or conceived of it after the killing of Kayla Mueller, one -- the last American hostage who was killed. There's been a lot of discussion that he might have had a key role in both her personal abduction and sort of captivity, but also in the hostage ring at large.

So, I'm still waiting to see what more comes out on the story.

HARLOW: So, let's bring Bob Baer into this and talk about it.

I wonder, Bob, if you agree with Michael Weiss if perhaps Abu Sayyaf was not the intended target of this raid, or if you think he was? Because, look, our justice reporter Evan Perez citing his sources was in the U.S. government who say that this ISIS fighter Abu Sayyaf and his wife had deep knowledge of their hostage operations.

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: A deep knowledge -- look, the problem with the Islamic state is our intelligence is awful. These guys have encrypted communications. They use mobile Wi-Fi. They clearly when they are captured don't talk, if you can even capture them alive. We don't have operatives anywhere in their areas. This is called a denied area. Intelligence is always iffy. If you do a raid like this, like Michael said, there are probably other targets and they put this guy forward.

At the same time, if indeed he was in charge of finances, the big question hanging out there is where's the funding coming to the Islamic State? There are rumors that Turks are sending them money, Saudis, Gulf Arabs, you have to go through the treasure-trove of what they captured on the hard drives and the rest of it to see whether this raid, what it's going to produce at this point.

HARLOW: Do you, Michael, think the U.S. could get significant intelligence from these computers? These drives?

WEISS: Without a doubt. Usually, when there's sort of kinetic activity like this and on the ground raid to kill or capture an ISIS fighter or any jihadi fighter, the treasure-trove of intelligence that is confiscated tends to sort of out-marshal the value of that target.

[06:35:11] So, when we killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 2006 in Iraq, we got off him loads of evidence and documents showing how jihadists were coming into Iraq from various countries, including Syria. I think -- if indeed his role in the financing of ISIS is as profound as the Pentagon says, they can then walk back how ISIS, particularly in the wake of the degradation of the oil infrastructure. This is the other aspect of the story. If ISIS has lost so much money through the oil trade, which has been diminished --

HARLOW: Right.

WEISS: -- thanks to coalition airstrikes, why go after this guy now? Well -- HARLOW: The Pentagon did come out in February and say that ISIS's

ability to get a lot of funding from these oil fields has been significantly diminished.

WEISS: Right. He may know what the alternative revenue streams have become in the last six months, in the wake of the loss of oil money.

HARLOW: That's a very good point.

Bob Baer, to you, when you talk about his wife, Umm Sayyaf, right, they've got her. These U.S. forces have her. They are interrogating her.

Is there any precedent to show if we think she'll be able to be flipped? If she is, how much information she would have even been privy to?

BAER: Well, Poppy, that's a good question. In the Arab world, a lot of times women play behind the curtains very important role. They advise their husbands, they actually plan. They are not always completely subservient to the husbands, or cut of operations. A lot of times women play a part in this. The question is whether she did or not, or, you know, whether she was completely separate from these operations.

And I don't think we know that once you sit down and she starts talking, which I hope she does, we'll know a lot more. But in any case, whatever she has to say will be of interest to start building databases against the Islamic state, just as we did with al Qaeda in Pakistan. This is the intelligence you need to destroy one of these organizations. It just takes a long time, years and years.

HARLOW: Especially if she does have that critical information about the ISIS hostage program and is willing to turn it over.

Bob Baer, Michael Weiss, thanks to you very much.

Also, this just into it here at CNN. That tornado watch we told you about in Texas and Oklahoma, also now includes western Kansas.

Pedram Javaheri is with us now. He's in the CNN severe weather center.

So, what's the latest on this watch? Have things gotten more ominous?

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, AMS METEOROLOGIST: People, it looks like it, yes. You know, the short-term models here indicating that inside the next couple hours and last week we talked about severe storms occurring this time of year between, say, 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 p.m. and into the afternoon and evening hours.

And as we close in on the hours there, you can see the storms really beginning to blossom there across eastern portions of Texas working into western Oklahoma, really around the panhandle where more than half a million people under the tornado watch meaning conditions are favorable for tornadoes to develop across this region. The concern is that this storm has a history of producing tornadoes,

35 and 45 miles southeast of Amarillo, two tornado reports in the past couple of hours. And again, this line of active weather is moving off to the east. So, we think around 5:00 local time, western Oklahoma, the severe weather begins to move and 7:30 and beyond that into Oklahoma City, high probability for some very active thunderstorms to move through.

Tornado warning right now has been issued around Wheeler County. This is on the Texas and Oklahoma state line out there. This expires at 3:45 Central Time. This storm has a history of producing tornadoes. So, that's a major threat across the region as we watch it go north of I-40. So, a major interstate as well dealing with the active weather.

Poppy, you talked about the 500,000 being around Texas, but on into Western Kansas, Dodge City, Hayes, and also Goodland, Kansas, in line here about a quarter million people dealing with this for severe weather, and again, as the possibility of sparking a few tornadoes, that expires at 9:00 p.m.

So, watch the clock. We take you through tonight. Storms become organized around Oklahoma City by 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Follow that line around Wichita, Kansas City gets on it on it, even Dallas, Texas, into the overnight hours. So, one of those nights we think some of those storms could happen around sunset, maybe after sunset, which make it a very, very dangerous scenario for 24 million people, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right. We'll keep a very close eye on it. Thanks so much, Pedram. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, a doctor who was one of the first on the scene to help the victims of the Boston marathon bombing will join me live with her reaction to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev being sentenced to death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:43:23] MICHAEL WARD, FIREFIGHTER WHO TREATED BOSTON BOMBING VICTIMS: His justice now, he wanted to go to hell and he's going to get there early.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Very strong reaction there from Michael Ward, an off-duty fighter who rushed to help the victims of the Boston marathon bombing. He was speaking yesterday right after a federal jury imposed the death sentence on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, for his role in that terror attack that killed 3 people and injured 240 others, as well as taking limbs from 17 people.

Dr. Natalie Stavas ran the race that day. She was also one of the first responders who helped so many people on the ground there. She was named Bostonian of the Year.

Thanks for being with us, Doctor. DR. NATALIE STAVAS, NAMED 2013 BOSTONIAN OF THE YEAR: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: I remember rushing up to Boston right after this happened, being on that first press conference right outside Mass General when the doctors were frantically trying to save lives and save limbs. You were one of the people responsible for helping saved so many. After two years and this trial and heartbreaking testimony, what's your reaction to this verdict?

STAVAS: You know, I think it's been a really emotional 24 hours for the city of Boston now. It was so shocking yesterday, at least for me, when the verdict and the sentencing came out. Actually, I found myself checking multiple news sources saying, is this really? Is this really it? Has this what we have come to?

And I got to say, the emotions have been so mixed here in Boston. We have people very happy with this result and we have other people saying that this just isn't the way to go. Personally I was --

(CROSSTALK)

[16:45:11] HARLOW: That's what I'm going to ask. What about you personally?

STAVAS: I was incredibly shocked. I would say there are multiple layers to my emotions right now. Being there and witnessing it and seeing the horror that happened, there are many, many days in the past few years where I have wished him dead, where I wished something had happened to him and something happened to the bombers before they even could do this to our community.

And yesterday, I went through shock and then sadness, and then for a moment I felt happy and then I felt guilty for feeling happy and then I felt sad again. I think simultaneously, a weight was lifted for all of us because e we finally have something and a weight was now put on everyone because the question is now what does the future hold? Which we know is actually highly uncertain.

HARLOW: You're right, because he can appeal. He can appeal this and the family of Martin Richard, that beautiful young 8-year-old boy who was murdered in this horrific terror attack wrote that op-ed recently saying we don't want the death sentence because we don't want this to drag out for years and years over appeal. And now, that's likely what will happen.

STAVAS: I know, and that's really hard to stomach. I think right now the community here in Boston is really trying to regardless of what people's opinions are, the community that was affected so greatly is trying to come together and say it is what it is. So, now what? And how do we continue to move forward together and stay positive together and heal together? We have come this far. It can't stop us.

HARLOW: It can't and isn't it important to focus on the survivors? I mean, I had Heather Abbott on last hour, a woman who lost her leg in the attack and has done so much to help other amputees. STAVAS: Right.

HARLOW: How important is it that we remain focused on those people and not Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, in spite of appeals that may come?

STAVAS: I think it's the most important thing. I think it's the most important thing that we focus on the community and the survivors and the people who have dedicated their life to kindness and moving forward. I think so much good has been shown in the aftermath. And that is what we focus on, and that is how we help each other.

I personally am not an advocate of the death penalty, and so, it will be hard. It will be hard for a lot of us going forward with this, but we have to know that we have each other and that we will be there for each other.

HARLOW: And you have your great city, the great city of Boston and the great people of Boston.

STAVAS: Oh, wonderful, wonderful place.

HARLOW: Thank you so much and thanks for all you did that day.

STAVAS: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: So, where does Dzhokhar Tsarnaev go now? One possibility is a federal supermax prison. It's reserved for the worst of the worst.

Our Alexander Field has a look inside.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT HOOD, FORMER SUPERMAX WARDEN: A supermax is a life after death. It adds punishment to the crime.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Admax in Florence, Colorado, the country's only federal supermax, it's known as the Alcatraz of the Rockies. It's considered the country's most secure prison.

HOOD: Today, there's 420 inmates in the prison. They've killed staff. They killed guards. They've earned, if you will, the right to go to the supermax.

You're looking at people like Ramzi Yousef, the 1993 World Trade bomber, Timothy McVeigh was there, Nichols was there. The shoe bomber, the Unabomber, you can go on and on.

FIELD: Soon, this could be home to the marathon bomber. It's closed off to the rest of the world. Inside, the most dangerous inmates are sealed off.

HOOD: We've designed it so the inmates can't see the sky, intentionally. What it really hit is that you're looking at the beauty of the Rocky Mountain in the backdrop. When you get inside, that's the last time you'll ever see it. As you're pulling up to this complex, there's shot guns in plain view.

There's a 9 millimeter and there's tear gas. They're going by 12 gun towers. And that's before you even say hello to anyone. You'll be in leg irons, a belly chain, handcuffs, and you're passing hundreds, hundreds of cameras.

It's almost all concrete. You're going to be in that box, this 84 square feet of room mostly likely for the rest of your life.

[16:50:08] His life if he goes there is pathetic, no matter you spin it. It's, in my opinion, far worse than death.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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HARLOW: Now to the race for the White House in 2016 and a tricky balancing act facing some Republican governors taking a hard look at a run for president. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, have all seen their popularity, their approval rating take a big hit in their home states as they look for support on a national level.

Let's talk about it with CNN politics and finance reporter MJ Lee. She just wrote a fascinating article on it.

Thanks for being here.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS AND FINANCIAL REPORTER: Thanks for having me.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: -- as always.

Look, this is a delicate act. This is a balancing act for anyone running a state and a budget and thinking about or actually running for president. They have to keep the interests of the nation in mind and their specific interests of their states.

What are we seeing in terms of these three governors?

LEE: You're absolutely right that it's always tricky for governors to run for president, at the same time, having to keep their business at home in order. But I do think the level of how much their popularity has taken a hit is kind of remarkable for, especially for Christie and Jindal.

[16:55:01] Their numbers really have hit rock bottom. And --

HARLOW: Yes, Christie, 38 percent, the latest approval rating.

LEE: Right.

And it's a couple things for Christie. The fiscal situation in New Jersey is very bad. And under his watch, Moody's has downgraded his state's credit rating a couple of times. Not to mention bridgegate, the political scandal, has been incredibly bad for his popularity. It's obvious that it has clouded the way in which New Jersey voters and folks nationwide view Christie as a political candidate.

And for Jindal, his state of Louisiana also has a host of economic problems. It was fascinating. I spoke to the state's lieutenant governor, who is a Republican. And he told me, look, the governor is spending quite a lot of time in states like Iowa and New Hampshire being a presidential candidate, but we have serious problems at home.

HARLOW: So, does it help Jeb Bush that he's not a sitting governor?

LEE: I think that's absolutely something that helps candidates who have not been in office for a long time and in some ways, you know, they don't have a record that they have to defend. They have some distance from that. I do think when someone like Christie and someone like Jindal, someone like Walker, their popularities are falling. Yes, it's a boost for some of the other folks in the field.

HARLOW: Quickly before I go, Governor O'Malley, Maryland -- Baltimore really hit him.

LEE: Yes, when the riots happened, O'Malley found himself in a tricky situation of having to defend his record both as mayor of Baltimore and governor of Maryland. I think he actually handled it quite well given just how controversial and divisive the situation was. And we are expecting an announcement from Governor O'Malley in the next couple weeks.

HARLOW: If he will or won't run, we'll see.

LEE: Probably will.

HARLOW: Probably will, we'll see. Thanks so much. MJ, good to have you on.

Fascinating piece by MJ on CNN Politics.

Ahead next hour, an operation by Delta Forces, taking out a top ISIS target. More details on that, next.

Also, we're keeping a close eye on a tornado watch over parts of three states, hundreds of thousands of people in the path of this storm.

Stay with us. Another hour of NEWSROOM is straight after this.

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