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MH370 Debris Found at Last?; Cincinnati Officer in Court on Murder Charges; "The Seventies" Examines the Rise of Terrorism. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired July 30, 2015 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Kristie Lu Stout reporting live from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, this morning.
Since Flight 370 disappeared, all kinds of conspiracy theories have surfaced, including that perhaps one of the pilots took down the plane on some kind of suicide mission. There was never any evidence to actually support that. That was the head pilot. That's the co-pilot. Officials even studied the pilots' body language before the flight. You see them going through airport security there. Nothing unusual at all.
So, I don't know, what happened to this flight remains a mystery, even as far as the criminal investigation goes. With me now to talk about that and more, CNN safety analyst and author of "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370," David Soucie. He's also a former FAA safety inspector. I'm also joined by CNN aviation analyst and pilot Les Abend.
Welcome to both of you.
David, I'll start with you. Suicidal pilots are not unheard of. Of course you remember the Germanwings flight. But, of course, that pilot left behind ample evidence and they eventually found the black boxes. Now we're looking at suppose -- if this plane part is actually from Flight 370, we're just looking at this little piece of the wing. Could that at least solve part of the mystery?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: As far as whether it was suicide or intentional, this is not going answer that question. We're still looking for the black boxes, which are likely at the bottom of the ocean back in the search area. So this is just an indicator. I think it is profound for the families of those people that were onboard because of the fact that they might be able to, at least in their subconscious mind, put away those thought that the aircraft has landed somewhere and that their loved ones are safe. I think that's the most profound thing about this discovery. I don't think that there's enough evidence from this part to tell us whether it was a terrorist act or a suicide.
COSTELLO: Well, I ask you that question, David, because some people say because that piece of the plane is intact, and -- it rules out an explosion, right? It could rule out an explosion in the air.
SOUCIE: Uh-huh. That it does.
COSTELLO: And then other people saying because -- because that part of the plane is intact, it sort of proves that the pilot really could have landed, you know, a slow decent into the ocean and then the plane didn't break apart, it just sort of sunk to the bottom of the ocean.
SOUCIE: Well -- and I understand where -- where they're coming from on that, because the fact that this part doesn't have any damage to its leading edge. If the aircraft had gone in, in a dramatic dive into the water, the water, of course, is like concrete. So this part, where it's located, would have collided with the wing in front of it and you would see damage along the front leading edge of this part. That's not evident here. So in some maneuver, the aircraft would have that part extended down blow the wing and, in that case, it would have, on a glide in or a ditching, would have torn that part off, which this would be consistent with that type of damage that you see on this part.
COSTELLO: Gotcha.
OK, Les, I know you're skeptical of this whole thing. So, lay it on us.
LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it's not -- it's not that I'm skeptical of the whole thing. When I first saw the image, you know, I'm looking at a part that to me the photograph looked -- it looked very bulky to me. The -- you know, it's definitely an airframe piece. And something from a wing seems -- seems pretty possible. But it looked bulky and the -- they're talking about a flaperon. When I walk around the 777, of course I see it in one nice piece and it's an incredible wing, but it didn't look -- a flaperon to me doesn't look that -- as big as that particular picture. That being said, Boeing's got some pretty strong language talking about that this has got a good high probability of being a 777. And indeed if it is a 777 part, there's no 777 that have disappeared over the water.
COSTELLO: Yes, Boeing has said it's very likely from a 777.
ABEND: Yes.
COSTELLO: It's being flown now to Toulouse, France. I mean how long will it take investigators there to figure out if this is from that flight?
ABEND: You know, honestly, it's probably already been determined now. You remember all the misinformation that we got from Malaysian -- the misdirection that we got. I think let's let the Malaysian government and their part of the -- because it's their still -- it's still their accident investigation. Let them do their due diligence, go there, put their eyes on that particular part and be able to tell the world, OK, this indeed is part of MH-370. I think that's important.
COSTELLO: That sounds good to me. And, of course, it probably sounds good to the victims' families as well.
ABEND: Absolutely. COSTELLO: Les Abend, David Soucie, thanks, as always. I appreciate it.
Still to come on the NEWSROOM, this former police officer is about to appear in court, accused of killing an unarmed black man. Jean Casarez is in Cincinnati.
Good morning, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
Twenty-five-year-old Police Officer Raymond Tensing is just about to come face to face with a judge in the courthouse behind me. He is charged with murder, facing life in prison. We'll give you both sides right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:39:05] COSTELLO: Happening soon, a former University of Cincinnati police officer will make his first court appearance. This is less than 24 hours after being indicted for murder. Ray Tensing, a white officer, shot and killed Samuel DuBose, an unarmed black man, during a traffic stop earlier this month. Prosecutors call the officer's actions senseless, saying body cam footage contradicts his self- defense claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TENSING: OK, Well, until I can figure out if you have a license -- a license or not, go ahead and take your seat belt off for me.
DUBOSE: I didn't even do nothing. (INAUDIBLE) --
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seat belt off. Stop! Stop!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right. In the next frame, Samuel DuBose is shot in the head. DuBose's sister, overcome with emotion last night, when she heard that the officer was devastated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERINA ALLEN, SISTER OF SAMUEL DUBOSE: It just kicked me in the stomach to hear that because we're devastated. Yesterday I left my brother at the cemetery. My mother buried her son. And he's devastated? I just think he really needs to rethink that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[09:40:16] COSTELLO: Jean Casarez is outside the Hamilton County Courthouse in Cincinnati this morning to tell us about the court appearance.
Good morning, Jean.
CASAREZ: Good morning. It's a very busy day here today. And, you know, the prosecuting attorney, Joe Deters, said yesterday that he had looked at and investigated so many different police officer shootings and that when he saw this, it was out and out murder, he says. The defense is saying, wait a minute, it's the state of mind of the officer. You don't know his state of mind. And he believed that he had reasonable fear of being killed. But the prosecuting attorney says the evidence, it's all in the body cam that all three officers on scene were wearing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ (voice-over): Protesters pleading for justice in front of a Cincinnati courthouse late Wednesday. Emotions running high as newly released body camera footage shows campus police officer Ray Tensing shoot and kill 43-year-old Samuel DuBose during a routine traffic stop.
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seat belt off. Stop! Stop!
CASAREZ: Tensing now behind bars. The 25-year-old police officer turning himself in on Wednesday after being indicted for murder.
JOSEPH DETERS, HAMILTON COUNTY, OHIO, PROSECUTOR: This is the most asinine act I've ever seen a police officer make.
CASAREZ: The nearly 30 minute long video show Tensing pulling overdue DuBose for a missing front license plate.
TENSING: Hey, how's it going man?
DUBOSE: Hey, how's it going?
CASAREZ: Tensing asks repeatedly for his license.
TENSING: Why don't you have your license on you?
DUBOSE: Because I don't. I just don't. I'm sorry.
CASAREZ: What happens next is hard to watch.
TENSING: Well, until I can figure out if you have a license -- a license or not, go ahead and take your seat belt off for me.
DUBOSE: I didn't even do nothing. Why you --
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seat belt off. Stop! Stop!
CASAREZ: Frame by frame, you see the police officer reach for DuBose's door. DuBose starts the car and the car begins to move. From a second body camera attached to a different officer, you can hear what Tensing says happened.
TENSING: I just got tangled in the car. I thought he was going to run me over.
CASAREZ: The county prosecutor says Tensing's account is misleading.
DETERS: When he got shot, if you -- you can hear the car accelerating because he fell forward and must have pressed on the gas.
CASAREZ: DuBose's mother says she thanks God everything was revealed.
AUDREY DUBOSE, SAMUEL DUBOSE'S MOTHER: I'm so glad that the man that murdered my son is in jail now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ: And one of the most concerning things is this police incident report from the University of Cincinnati taken shortly after this all happened. And it says that the Officer Tensing says that he was being dragged by the car as the driver was taking off and that he was almost killed and run over by the driver of the Honda. Two officers that arrived at the scene seemed to corroborate that in their statements. But the fact is, the prosecuting attorney says there is nothing in that video that shows that at all. That if he's on the ground at all it's because he fell over on his own accord. The defense is saying, Carol, there is a third body camera that has not been yet revealed publicly and that may give the answers to the questions that everybody still has.
COSTELLO: All right. And the officer will show up soon for an arraignment, that is correct, Jean?
CASAREZ: Yes, it's going to start just momentarily. Not only an arraignment, but the defense attorney says that it's also going to be a bond hearing. He was saying that yesterday because he wanted to bond him out yesterday. Now the big question is, will he get bond? Because this is a very serious charge. He's facing life in prison. This is purposeful murder, intent to kill murder. It's a top murder charge in Ohio. And the question is, will he get bail or will he remain in county jail?
COSTELLO: All right, Jean Casarez reporting live from Cincinnati this morning.
The Hamilton County prosecutor, Joseph Deters, used uncommonly blunt language to describe the alleged actions of Officer Tensing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DETERS: It's an absolute tragedy in the year 2015 that anyone would behave in this manner. It was senseless. And I met with the family just moments ago. It's just horrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: The black community in Hamilton County was taken aback by Deters' tone because of inflammatory remarks the prosecutor has made in the past. Here's how Prosecutor Deters described a group of African-Americans who allegedly beat up a white man to a grand jury. Quote, "They will hurt you. They will hurt your grandma. The root cause of this is there's no discipline in the homes. They don't go to school, you know. They live off the government. No personal accountability. They just beat people up and for no reason. It's disgusting."
[09:45:01] COSTELLO: Cincinnati councilwoman Amy Murray joins me now, along with law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander and legal analyst Joey Jackson. Welcome to all of you. I appreciate your being here.
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Caorl.
COSTELLO: Good morning. Councilwoman, I want to start with you. Were you surprised by Prosecutor Deters' tone?
AMY MURRAY, CINCINANTI CITY COUNCIL: Oh, can you say that again? I'm sorry.
COSTELLO: Prosecutor Deters' description of what happened that terrible day when Mr. Dubose was killed, were you surprised by the prosecutor's tone?
MURRAY: You know, Prosecutor Deters is an excellent prosecutor and he never holds back on anything. And so I think when he saw the video and they had done their week of research and investigation, I think he was just outraged at what had happened and really felt like it was a senseless murder that should not have happened. So I think it comes across very strongly, but those of us that know Prosecutor Deter, it's exactly how he -- he holds no punches. He lets you know exactly how he feels.
COSTELLO: I think the black community in Hamilton County, Councilwoman, thinks that Prosecutor Deters has used inflammatory language in the past to describe actions within the black community. They were taken aback at his remarks about this officer.
MURRAY: Yes, I mean, it was shocking. And to hear someone say that about an officer, but we'll go through the jury now, but I think when you look at the video, it is shocking that, you know, Samuel Dubose was sitting there, he was not aggressive, he was not violent, and yet he was shot. And this is something that is outrageous. So I think his tone matched that. I think people were surprised, though, that he came out that forceful. But that's what the situation is.
COSTELLO: Cedric, it is -- it's bizarre that this officer allegedly made up a story about what happened when he was wearing a body camera. And he actually wrote it into the police report. Did he really think he could get away with that?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, obviously, he thought he could --
COSTELO: Go ahead, Cedric.
ALEXANDER: Obviously, he thought he could. But it's very apparent here, if you look at the video, I think it's pretty descriptive of what occurred on that particular day. However, when you go back, and in this case the officer writes an entirely different report that is not congruent with what we see on this video, certainly raised a great deal of issue.
I think the D.A.'s comments in regards to that particular shooting on that particular day, and what he saw of the video, I think he was just very direct in terms of the egregiousness of it. And how he may have framed it -- I'm quite sure, I would hope that he measured his words very carefully.
But I don't want to overlook the point, the most important piece is here, that that was a pretty heinous crime that took place. But it's going to have its process in a court of law, which it should. And any other evidence that is brought forth will be looked at as well too. But from what we know right now, Carol, from the video that we all have witnessed and thrown aback by, it is a pretty egregious act from what we can see thus far.
COSTELLO: Cedric, it's also shocking, and maybe it shouldn't be but maybe I'm naive, it's just shocking that two other officers seemed to go along with this other officer's story.
ALEXANDER: Well, here's the thing. They need to be accurate in their statements, because in the sworn testimony and even during the administrative part, the internal investigation, if it's later determined that their statements were false, they can easily find themselves terminated and on the criminal side can find themselves indicted as well too on perjury charges.
So it is going to be the physical evidence, the camera evidence, and any other evidence that might come into play here very early on, and I'll let my friend Joey Jackson get into the legalities of it, but we can see here early on as laypeople, this is a pretty egregious case. And I would hope that his friends that were there with him, his partners who were there to back him up, are going to be forthright in terms of what their statements were in terms of what they saw and didn't see.
COSTELLO: Joey, what do you think?
JACKSON: I think that the video --
COSTELLO: Go ahead, Joey. I'm sorry.
JACKSON: I think that the videotape doesn't lie. I mean it's hard to really countermand what the videotape says, Carol. You look at the tape and I say "says" because it speaks volumes. If we look at a picture and we know that's worth a thousand words, think about what a videotape will do. And so when you examine that and hold it up against a police report where you give the indication, when you're the officer, to say that you are being run over, number one, to say that you are being dragged, number two, to say, number three, as a result of that you were fearful for your life, it's troubling.
And so therefore you have a very motivated prosecutor who in essence is seeking justice. And in that justice, he filed a murder indictment. And I think it also needs and speaks volumes to where the prosecutor believes this case is. Carol, if you look at the speed in which this occurred. [09:50:00] If you look at Sunday the 19th of July and you look at today, where that officer will be in court being arraigned on the charge, where his -- he'll -- be an indictment will be lodged in that courtroom and bail will or will not be set, which is the critical question.
So this is serious, facing life in jail. And, look, officers get a lot of deference for what happens in the street. Supreme Court of the United States says that they need to make split-second decisions. And what you do as a police officer, says the court, is evaluated by what a reasonable officer would do in common circumstances. So the critical question throughout this proceeding will be would a reasonable officer in his position would have acted in accord and just like this officer did? And if the answer is no, guess what? It's murder.
COSTELLO: All right. Joey Jackson, Cedric Alexander, Councilman Amy Murray, thank you all for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.
Thank you, you're welcome.
We'll continue to monitor this story. Jean Casarez will be inside the courtroom and we'll bring you the latest in the next hour of NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:55:09] COSTELLO: Tonight the CNN series "THE SEVENTIES" looks at the rise of terrorism around the world. It was a decade marked by events like Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ENGLISH, AUTHOR, "ARMED STRUGGLE": The provisional IRA, the IRA of the 1970s, used violence that many of us would consider to be terroristic and they used that violence to put pressure on the British to withdraw from Northern Ireland and to bring about an independent, united, sovereign country free from British rule.
GARRICK UTLEY, NBC NEWS: This is a Sunday the people of Northern Ireland will not forget. It all started when Catholics organized a demonstration to protest the continued internment of suspected terrorists. The demonstration, as all demonstrations, was banned by the government.
ENGLISH: It was intended to be a protest which was not about using violence, but when some of the marchers stopped and threw stones at the soldiers, it led to a dramatic and awful overreaction.
(GUNSHOTS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Bloody Sunday and the rise of terrorism tonight on "THE SEVENTIES", 9:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.
The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
