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Plane Debris Found; Rand Paul on Trump. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 30, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:05] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We begin with breaking news, this major development on the piece of debris that has so many in the world now really in anticipation, especially, of course, the families, the loved ones of the 239 people who vanished on Malaysia Air Flight 370. We soon could learn if this piece you're looking at here is the actual first sort of tangible proof that the plane carrying their loved ones crashed some 500 days ago.

And a source says investigators from Boeing, who made this 777 plane, have a high level of confidence that, indeed, it is. Not only because it looks like a piece of the plane's wing, this is what's called a flaperon, but also because of the number stamped on it, 657BB. It may not mean a lot for you or for myself, but it's significant. We'll get into that.

The image of the debris here from this local newspaper, the source says it matches this particular number on a schematic of a 777. This online picture appears to be from a Boeing maintenance manual. Family members of the missing passengers, they are, at least at this point in time, reserving judgment after so many false starts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

K.S. NARENDRAN, HUSBAND OF MH-370 VICTIM: Just been such a roller coaster over the months, it's a little hard to believe that we would come across a part that's thousands of miles away from where it's generally believed to be located. So, (INAUDIBLE) the southern Indian Ocean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Again, geography here. The debris was found off the coast of this little island. It's called Reunion Island. This is just off of Madagascar, which is just to the east there of Africa. That is 2,300 miles from the current search site and close to 4,000 miles from where MH-370 vanished back on March 8th of last year.

Let's go first to CNN's Robyn Kriel. She is live there on Reunion Island.

Tell me now, as far as this piece of debris, Robyn, where is it at the moment and who's looking into this?

ROBYN KRIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, from what our sources tell us here on the island, Brooke, the piece of debris is still here. However, we are hearing, according to the Malaysian prime minister's office, that that piece of debris will be heading to France. Reunion is a French territory, so the piece will be heading to France to be investigated by France's equivalent of Civil Aviation Authority, the BEA.

Now, the French have not confirmed that, but that is coming from Malaysian authorities. They will be there meeting that piece of debris in France to go over the - I guess schematics as well as the piece of debris itself to find out exactly if that piece came from the missing Boeing 777.

The person who found it, Brooke, it was found on a beach close to - or on this main island, Saint-Andre Beach. And it was found by a bunch of cleaning - people who were cleaning the beach. They just noticed it bobbing in the water. They pulled it up and then they called French authorities when they realized it was indeed a piece of a plane.

BALDWIN: Robyn Kriel, thank you.

On that piece of debris there on Reunion Island, and this discovery, it can be viewed more as less as a mixed bag in terms of emotions for these families of the 239 souls that were on board that 777.

I've got Will Ripley, who was covering this from the very beginning. He's back up now for us live in Beijing.

And so on the families, Will, you know, obviously, you know, they say they want 100 percent certainty, you know, before they can really sort of, I think, absorb this. How are they handling this information?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, sadly, they're going through the same range of emotions they were going through when you and I were talking in the middle of the night in this part of the world a year ago, uncertainty and questions about what happens if this piece of the wing is indeed from Flight 370? Still, what is the proof for these families that the plane went down and that people didn't somehow survive, that people aren't still out there?

It may be difficult for you and me to understand, but for a lot of the people, including the more than 150 families here in China, they still - because they haven't seen any substantial proof that the plane crashed, they're still holding on to this shred of hope that their loved ones might be alive.

And even more heartbreaking, Brooke, they're not getting any information from the officials anymore. Not from Malaysian Airlines, not from the Chinese government. Their assistance center here in Beijing has been shut down for months. They don't even have a hotline. They're learning about this just as we are and it's really heartbreaking for these families.

BALDWIN: I'll be talking to someone who lost a sister on that Air France flight who's been in very close contact with these families to get more on how they're working through all of this. Will Ripley, thank you so much, in Beijing.

[14:05:09] Let's turn now to the author of "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: Why It Disappeared." He is CNN safety analyst David Soucie. Also with me, Nick Mallos, marine debris specialist and conservation biologist.

So, gentlemen, welcome to both of you. And, David Soucie, I mean, beginning here with this number, this component number that they spotted on this wing matches a Boeing 777. The question is, how do they take that number and this piece of a plane and be able to definitively say this is MH-370?

DAVIS SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: That number could be a number of things. But one of them could be just an inspector's stamp. And the inspector stamps are all registered. So we know which inspector inspected what part on what day. So that can be tracked back.

The other thing that could be is other manufacturers make subparts or subassemblies of that entire portion of the wing. So that subassembly could be also an identifying number. Those, again, are also tracked and then they go into an assembly, which is the entire piece, and then that has a part number and that part number starts with a 113W and then 6111 or something like that afterwards. So that's the part number that they'll really be looking for. But this will tell them that it is indeed from 777. It may not tell them which serial number 777 until they see that other number, the 113 number.

BALDWIN: But just quickly, are we talking days here? Could it be that quick?

SOUCIE: Well, I'm quite - frankly, I'm a little surprised that they're shipping it back for this kind of inspection. We're not doing an accident investigation here. We're doing what we call a parts identification. So that's all they have to do. I'm quite surprised that they're not sending a specialist out to verify that on site because you could lose some important evidence on that wing.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. I have more for you but, Nick, let me just - let me bring you in. I know that Martin Dolan, he's the head of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, and he has said, you know, despite the location where this piece of plane we believe, you know, has been found, they're not searching - they're not changing the search area. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN DOLAN, AUSTRALIAN TRANSPORT SAFETY BUREAU: No, because if it's confirmed to be from MH-370, we know that the wreckage could easily have drifted over a period of time we have to that search area and all the information we have and the analysis we have says the search area (INAUDIBLE) is where the missing aircraft will be found.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Nick, why wouldn't they shift the search area? Does that - does that surprise you?

NICK MALLOS, MARINE DEBRIS SPECIALIST: No, it actually doesn't. As Mr. Dolan noted, you know, the ocean operates in very unique but understandable ways. And particularly in the Indian Ocean, there are very defined currents that move east to west right around the equatorial region and these are very strong currents. So it is not out of the realm of possibility that a wing of this size could actually have found its way into those surface currents and drifted those 2,300 miles ending up on Reunion Island. And certainly we've seen things like this following the aftermath of the Japan tsunami. And so it is certainly possible that this is from the Malaysia Airlines flight.

And, you know, I think it's also very important for us to understand here that - that there's a lot of debris out there beyond just from this wreckage.

BALDWIN: Right.

MALLOS: And if you recall a year ago, you know, there were many false alarms. So I think it's important for us to be certain. But certainly from an oceanographic perspective, it is possible.

BALDWIN: Well, and staying with you on the oceanographic perspective, I mean if you were to find a piece of a plane, aren't they typically found in clusters? I'm wondering if they found this one piece, how quickly, then, if it is it, they will begin to find other pieces of the plane as well.

MALLOS: It's a great question and it's hard to say with certainty, but certainly, you know, as an item this large washes up, it is possible that in the coming days or coming weeks you could see other remnant pieces, you know, that are similar in shape and size and would be floating in the same buoyancy and drifting across the ocean. So it is possible. But again, there is a lot of debris out there so it is - you know, we'll have to wait and see.

BALDWIN: Uh-huh.

David Soucie, I mean you said yourself, you're a little surprised they're going to take this piece and take it up to the BEA in France which could lose something to it. Hopefully not. And then from there at what point would they send a crew to Reunion Island? And then, you know, are you looking for pieces floating? At what point do you go under water to try to see how much of a plane could be in tact? Walk me through those steps.

SOUCIE: Well, first of all, with regard to the, once they identify it as that part, there are already searchers out there searching and combing those beaches. They have helicopters out as well looking for other floating debris.

BALDWIN: OK.

SOUCIE: It's unlikely that they would have sunken debris at that point, in that - in that location because the drift would have taken -

[14:10:04] BALDWIN: Why?

SOUCIE: Would not have taken that out. It would have sunk at the point. So it's unlikely for that. But the surface area search will continue and it will be a strong one right now for sure.

BALDWIN: What about looking at the edging? I know you've talked about those are the barnacles, which would make sense given the period of time that this - this item perhaps has been in the ocean, the parasitic activity from the ocean. But beyond that, what else could one tell looking at this piece, fire damage and what not?

SOUCIE: Yes, I don't see any evidence of any burning or anything at this point, but that is something they'll definitely be looking for to see if there was a fire before impact. One of the things that I'd be looking for right off the bat is any - any contact on the front leading edge of that control surface because if the aircraft hit in a - in an abrupt and dramatic fashion, it would have stopped the wing and this piece would have continued through its bracketry and collided with the back of the wing and caused severe damage to the front of the wing. From the pictures we have, I don't see that. So it appears that the - that this control surface was torn off of the aircraft before the actual abrupt stop landing of the aircraft in the water.

BALDWIN: Wow. David Soucie, Nick Mallos, thank you both so much. I know we'll be talking again.

Meantime, we will take you live to a tarmac where we'll get a look at these 777 parts up close, what this shape of this piece of debris could tell investigators about what happened. We'll take you there.

Also, as I mentioned a moment ago, a family member of someone who died in a previous plane crash will join me today on why today is really just so, so incredibly excruciating for the survivors, families. You're watching CNN's special live coverage. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:51] BALDWIN: And back to or breaking news. A sources tells CNN that Boeing officials are confident that the plane debris, found on an island, matches the model 777, of course, that very same model as the missing Malaysia Air Flight 370.

I have my colleague Nick Valencia. He is live on the tarmac.

You're outside this company that managed the storage of some airplanes and their parts. And so we're talking about this particular part called a flaperon. This is a piece of a wing. First, just explain to me what it does.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're here at Universal Asset Management, here it Tupelo, Mississippi. A place that knows a lot about aviation. And specifically a lot about the Boeing 777. The resident expert here, Brooke, the senior vice president, Michael Kenney.

Thanks so much for taking the time with CNN.

MICHAEL KENNEY, SENIOR V.P., UNIVERSAL ASSET MANAGEMENT: Thank you, Nick.

VALENCIA: We've heard a lot about flaperons in recent days. We're standing in front of one of the Boeing 777s you have here. First off, where is the flaperon and what is it?

KENNEY: Nick, a flaperon is located right here, between both the inboard and outboard flap on the aircraft.

VALENCIA: So that middle portion right there?

KENNEY: That middle piece.

VALENCIA: That small about six and a half foot piece right there?

KENNEY: That's exactly right. And the flaperon is a flight surface. So it combines both an aleron (ph) and the flaps themselves.

VALENCIA: So it helps navigate the plane. It helps - it - controls its landing? Sort of -

KENNEY: Yes, it actually extends away from the aircraft and it gives pilot more control over the aircraft at slow speeds, takeoff and landing.

VALENCIA: Well, we have - we have one right here in front of us to get a little bit more detail about what those investigators in Reunion Island are working with. How would they be able, Michael, to tie this flaperon back to that specific MH-370 flight? What are they looking for?

KENNEY: The most distinct way to do so, and concretely, is through a data plate. A data plate is found right here on the side of the aircraft. It's going to list both the part number and the serial number of the unit.

VALENCIA: But we saw from these photographs that we've been seeing emerge out of Reunion Island that that data plate, it's not there. So what - what other identifying characteristics are there on this flaperon?

KENNEY: It's potential that there are other serial numbers, there's other identifying marks in the unit itself.

VALENCIA: Which we've seen. We've seen that number on a part of the - on a part of this flaperon. Yo know, you're an expert in Boeing 777s. You know a lot about the specificity of this. There are certain things that stood out to you, isn't that right, when you saw these photos first emerge?

KENNEY: Yes, I mean, if we compare the photos themselves directly to the unit, you can see a lot of similarities between them, especially in the side section of the aircraft. But what I think what is key to note is that the linkage - a lot of the actuators that actually tie it to the airplane itself are not there. And not only not there, look like they were forcibly removed.

VALENCIA: And there's something also on the other side that you were showing us just a little while ago.

KENNEY: Yes.

VALENCIA: This is something that is only specific to Boeing 777. Is it this mounting portion right here, is that right?

KENNEY: Yes, if we - if we again can compare pieces and pictures, this is a picture of the right side of the unit. The actuator and the hinge that ties it to the aircraft, on the 777 is specifically found right here in this location.

VALENCIA: What about this part, Michael? I mean this has emerged a year - about a year after the flight first disappeared. Is this particularly buoyant - a particularly buoyant portion of the aircraft?

KENNEY: That's a really good question. It's - this part itself is made of composites. It used to be that these components would have been made of an aluminum or a metal alloy. It's a composite material. It's lightweight. It's also hollow. It's - it's just got ribbing structure on the inside. And, in fact, some sealed compartments. So it would float or wouldn't sink all the way to the bottom of an ocean or any other surface.

VALENCIA: And last question. I mean you know this aircraft. You've studied it since you were eight years old. What do you think, looking at the pictures and looking at this, what we're looking at here, this flaperon?

KENNEY: I think it's pretty promising that this is from a 777. I think comparing pictures, comparing the side structures, we're getting pretty close to being able to identifying that this came from a 777 aircraft and hopefully for closure of the families, MH-370.

VALENCIA: And I'm glad you brought that up. Michael Kenney, senior vice president, Universal Asset Management. This is, as much as we've been talking about debris, Brooke, in the last couple of hours, the last day or so, this really is about closure for the family and hope that this could lead investigators to something more.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: It was just incredibly helpful, thanks, Michael, from us, just to be able to see what this piece is on an actual plane now that we see it's washed ashore here on this island.

[14:20:05] Nick, thank you very much.

Next, many clues suggest this part of the wing could be a piece of the missing flight MH-370. How are family members of those souls lost on that plane dealing with this possibility? I'll talk with someone who has been through this before, a man who has lost his sister in the Air France crash. Stay with us. Also, Donald Trump still on top in the polls, but there is one key

constituent who does not have Trump fever. We'll share that with you, next. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: One week from today is the very first true, live test for Republicans running for president. You will have the top 10 candidates in national polls that will face off for the first debate of the primary season.

[14:25:02] Now, let me show you some numbers. The new nationwide poll comes from Quinnipiac. And, listen, there's no surprise, Donald Trump is leading by a pretty hefty margin there. Top left of your screen.

I want you to hear, though, what Senator Rand Paul, polling around 6 percent, just told our colleague Wolf Blitzer last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I had a billion dollars' worth of advertising and every network going gaga over that, you know what, I think we could get ours to rise also. But there's going to be time for that. I think this is a temporary sort of loss of sanity, but we're going to come back to our senses and look for somebody serious to lead the country at some point.

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": You think the 20 percent who are supporting Donald Trump, Republicans, according to this latest poll, have a loss of sanity?

PAUL: No, I think what they are is they're hungry for someone who will tell the truth, who will say Washington is broken and that we really have to, you know, start over, have term limits, wash out the place, cleanse the place up here. Absolutely he's tapping into that vein. But the thing is, is we also have to have a serious discussion of how we're going to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash, who just sat down with Donald Trump.

But, I mean, you know, listen, Rand Paul has a point in the sense that I think what Donald Trump really has been tapping into, a lot of people frustrated with the whole inside the beltway thing. You know, he doesn't come from that world, as so many of these other presidential wannabes do. But - so - so he says, well, he would be doing well if he was on TV all day as well.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And, more specifically, that he has actual, concrete plans.

BALDWIN: Right. Substance.

BASH: Yes. He mentioned right before that clip a plan he has to reform the tax code, which he says he can do - you could do in just about a page that will bring the entire tax code to 14 percent.

Now, like it or not, it's a plan.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: It's a specific plan. But people aren't necessarily hearing it because I think that the truth is, that a lot of people hear "senator" and they - then they hear the rest is wa, wa, wa, wa, wa -

BALDWIN: Wa, wa, wa, very Charlie Brown. Yes.

BASH: Because even someone like Rand Paul, who is, you know, made his name as an outsider. Ted Cruz made his name as an outsider. They still have the title. They still have the job and they simply - they just don't talk like Donald Trump. No one does.

BALDWIN: Looking ahead to the debate, I remember hearing our colleague Jeff Zeleny say on TV at some point last week, talking to some of the other campaigns, that they're actually watching, you know, "The Apprentice" just to try to like bone up on Donald Trump because it's not like there are a lot of political rallies you can watch.

BASH: Right.

BALDWIN: On the flipside, you talk to him about how he's debate prepping. What did he say?

BASH: He claims he's not doing much debate prep at all. Let's listen to what he said to me and I'll talk to you about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to be who I am. You know, these other people - I know they all have their debate coaches and they all have their pollsters and they don't say anything without the pollsters knowing exactly - and they pay the pollsters hundreds of thousands - in some case, hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.

BASH: But I'm sure you're brushing up on policy, right?

TRUMP: Oh, I am. I am. I am. But, you know, I brush up all the time. I'm reading constantly. I'm watching your show and others. But I'm constantly brushing up. I mean every time I turn on the television I'm brushing up.

BASH: So no formal debate prep?

TRUMP: Well, I watched Mitt Romney where he locked himself in a cabin for a week and he came in for that second and third debate and he wasn't able to speak. Something happened to him, OK. It wasn't a good picture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I should add that he did a press conference in Scotland, where he is right now, by the way, before the debate - BALDWIN: That's right, the golf course.

BASH: At his golf course because of the - of the British Open. And at the - during that press conference he said that he's not a debater. He's going to do the best he can. And then he went on to remind people that he's a big builder and he does beautiful work.

BALDWIN: Do you buy that, that he's not prepping?

BASH: No. I mean I bought - what I buy is that he's not necessarily doing the traditional debate prep. Look, a lot of these candidates, I would venture to say more of them, they have mock debates.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: They stand at a podium or sit at a seat and they pretend -

BALDWIN: For hours and hours and hours.

BASH: You know, you play this one, you play that one to their aides for hours and hours and hours. And, by the way, months, many of them. I don't think he's doing that.

BALDWIN: OK.

BASH: But the idea that he's not thinking about it, that he's not maybe bouncing ideas off of aides in a maybe less traditional way, I can't imagine he's not.

BALDWIN: OK. Let's pivot off Trump because I wanted to ask you about the other bit of this Quinnipiac poll is the fact that - and it's - it's just a teeny weenie is my politically incorrect way of saying, you know, you have now Jeb Bush over Hillary Clinton with one percentage point. Yes, of course, you factor in the margin of error. But how - how should one read this? What's happening here with Hillary Clinton?

BASH: Well, what's happening here with Hillary Clinton is that, you know, she, at this point, and it is very early, she's not stacking up necessarily that well against the more traditional Republican candidate, the guy who everybody at the beginning thought would probably - because the way Republicans pick their nominees, be the nominee. It's sort of the next in line the name.

However, we don't know if that's going to be the case on the Republican side. It is the reason why you see Democrats just quietly getting out of the way and cheering for Donald Trump -

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: Because Jeb Bush does, at this point, the best against Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump does about - just about the worst. In fact, in that same poll, he's losing to Bernie Sanders, if Bernie Sanders would be the Democratic nominee. So that really speaks to why the Democrats are going, "go Donald Trump."

[14:30:11] BALDWIN: Wow, one week from today, 10 podiums on that stage.