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Syrian Refugees Gather at Train Station in Austria; Kentucky Count Clerk in Jail After Refusing to Issue Same Sex Marriage Licenses; Joaquin Guzman's Location Possibly Revealed on Social Media; Presidential Politics in Iowa and New Hampshire Examined; CNN Hero Doctor Walks with Patients to Improve Health. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired September 05, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:12] MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Only time for two. Guppy Jackson tweets at me @Smerconish "You think you can sit in that electric blue suit and play judge and jury? Hillary broke the law and must face the consequence." Oh, and I'm the judge and jury? And then there's D.C. James who says "OK, show of hands -- how many thought Dave Ramsay and Smerconish were the same person, #Doppelganger." Two handsome guys, what can I tell you. See you next week.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: The trek of freedom and a better life, thousands of migrants now arriving in Austria with many more following that same path.

BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Defiant and in jail, as a Kentucky county clerk sits behind bars for not handing out marriage licenses. Her lawyer claims that these new marriage licenses without her signature are not legal. He joins us live.

PAUL: Plus did El Chapo's son just accidentally tell where his father is. He might have made a big mistake on social media.

You are in the CNN Newsroom.

And we are so happy to have you here. Welcome, everybody. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 10:00 here on the east coast, 7:00 out west.

PAUL: Yes, we want to begin at a train station in Austria. Show you the newest pictures we're getting in this morning where thousands of refugees, look at this, are scrambling to get on trains, trains that will take them to Germany. People are in Vienna we know, and they're donating train tickets to these folks. They have been moved by their tragic plight. They arrived back in Austria this morning after Hungarian authorities finally bussed them over when they started to walk, yes, walk to Germany from Budapest.

BLACKWELL: Some progress after the desperate situation over the past few days and weeks waiting for several days at a Budapest train station. Hungarian authorities refused to let them go without the proper documents. But these refugees are some of the thousands, tens of thousands streaming into Europe from conflict zones every day.

Fred Pleitgen is at the Nickelsdorf train station in Austria. And it looks as if the crowd has thinned out a bit there over the past two hours. What are you seeing there, Fred?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the crowd hasn't really thinned out but it's waves that come and go, Victor. What happens more refugees go across the border from Hungary into Austria and then they come here. Right now you can see more buses are arriving right now with additional refugees. So in order for there not to be a major bottleneck here -- you can see the local population waving to us, actually moving as the refugees are waving to the locals here. The locals are waving back.

There has been a massive donations drive that started early this morning because it was on short notice that people realized refugees were coming here. And they just donated water, food, medication. They set up a center here where the refugees can get clothing. It really has been amazing to see the local population here really step up and welcome these people. But it hasn't really thinned out, it's waves that come and go.

What authorities are trying to do is they it for people to come across the border and then they shuttle them here. But as you can see, the train station is pretty small here in Nickelsdorf, and so they don't want too many people here at the same time. So they keep them in a larger holding area, then they bring them here where they can get on trains fairly quickly to then move them over further into Austria, and then many of them, of course, ultimately into Germany. That's where many of them want to go.

And we have spoken to so, so many people especially from Syria but also from Afghanistan, from other places, and they are really, really emotionally drained. They are tired, exhausted. But they are very, very happy to finally be here, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Fred, I wonder if you can take us into maybe one of these exchanges. We see the local people there who wave and applaud as the buses arrive. Give us an idea of what that, that relationship is there once the people get off the buses and the Austrian people are waiting for them.

PLEITGEN: Yes. We can see these exchanges happening right here. They are waiting right now for people to get off the bus. It looks as though it's taking a little bit. Basically what happens you can see here the local population is lining up. They are already getting the food and water ready, the bananas right there, some more water, some people standing there with cookies for the children.

And then in order for things not to get out of hand or for people to, you know, try to get off too quickly, they tell them exactly what's going on. Information, of course, is something that is very important. And then they allow them to come off.

Now, we have a special situation here at the moment because as these people get off, either they can stay here at the train station, but there is also a train that is already waiting for them to take them further on.

[10:05:08] You can see just now the first people are getting off. They are being greeted, and as you can hear a little bit some applause coming from the local population. This is something that is very frequent, something that quite frankly many of these people have been needing to hear after the very difficult times that many of them have on the Hungarian side of the border.

Then you can really see these folks here, the local folks from the town of Nickelsdorf spring into action. There's a lot of people that get off here. They made these long treks with their babies, with their families. You see one gentleman there who is getting cookies right now who has a little baby right there on his arm. He has a little baby there, grabbing the cookies. Those are really the kind of emotional scenes we've been seeing a lot of here as these people come off this bus.

And I have seen so many bus loads being brought here. And one of the things that's really good is that the process that is in place here by the Austrian authorities is one that really, really works very well. They get the people off the buses fairly quickly and make sure that they don't wait too long for trains to come, because the weather also isn't that good. It's fairly cold. Here you see another family coming in and receiving some grapes, some cookies, some water again as well. It's fairly cold for many people here because the weather isn't very good here in Austria. So they don't want them waiting out in the open for too long. So they want to make sure they have at best a train ready to make sure that these folks can get on something as fast as possible, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Fred, I wonder and hoping language here isn't too great of a barrier, is it possible you can grab someone or speak to someone who can tell us about why they are there? Maybe why the local people came there, or anyone you can grab, actually.

PLEITGEN: Yes, we can try to get a little closer here. Let's see what we can do here. Get in. Hello, do you guys speak English? Yes? We're on TV, by the way. You're doing great things for the people here. Why did you decide to come here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we have to.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it's the government doesn't do anything, we have to.

PLEITGEN: The Austrian government, or Hungary?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: European Union, really is nothing.

PLEITGEN: And it's amazing what people have been doing here, how much stuff they have been bringing.

PAUL: No.

BLACKWELL: A heartwarming scene there. Fred Pleitgen reporting from the train station where many of these refugees will then get onto trains and head on to Vienna. But we know that they have been hungry. They are tired. And for the first time in this journey they are in a place where obviously they are welcomed. They have been shunned and rejected along this path for some time now.

PAUL: It's really showing some good humanity, as opposed to some of the things we've seen this week, you know, showing that if there are some people who will not step up, there are others who have the courage to do so.

BLACKWELL: Yes. So we know that many of these people are getting on to the train, have gone Vienna and that's the next stop in our coverage. We have on the phone with us Melissa Fleming. She's the spokesperson for the United Nations High Commission for Refugees at that train station in Vienna. Give us an idea, if you can as we continue to look at pictures here from Nickelsdorf, what's the scene in Vienna?

MELISSA FLEMING, SPOKESPERSON, UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSION FOR REFUGEES: Well, it's similar to what Fred was describing. There are probably as many volunteers here as refugees, and there are hundreds of refugees arriving here on trains. But it's incredible. the people are, this is a station where you can buy them train tickets. There are people handing out cigarettes, diapers, bananas, little cars so children have something to play with, stuffed animals, anything people can think of. Some of it is really well organized by faith-based groups. Others are just individual people coming to the station with bags of things to give away. So the welcome is incredible. And the refugees are visibly moved by this.

BLACKWELL: Melissa, let me ask you a question about logistics and resources. We know that tens of thousands of refugees made their way to Germany this year, hundreds thousands more expected. They will welcome hundreds thousands more. Does Germany have the resources? Where are these people going?

[10:10:00] FLEMING: Yes. What we're saying is Europe has the resources if Europe would collectively get together. It is not right that countries like Germany and Sweden, the two that are taking the most refugees, almost 75 percent, this can't go on this way. Austria, where we are right now, proportioned with population is taking in huge numbers. And yet other countries in Europe are taking in very little. And countries like Greece and Italy who are at shores of Europe at the front lines, are receiving thousands and thousands of people every day.

I heard last night that 4,000 people arrived to Greece. They are coming in to the island and Greece is completely overwhelmed. Europe has to come together. And we've proposed plans on how to resolve it. But the continent that has the wealth, the infrastructure, just needs the political will to resolve this.

PAUL: Melissa, what is the one or two things that these people need most? We had seen pictures earlier of people who needed some medical attention. Are you finding that as people de-board these buses?

FLEMING: Yes. I mean, definitely there are people who need medical attention. I'm seeing more people who are just visibly exhausted. They are, however, so relieved because they were trekking down the highway from Budapest for hours towards Austria. Also the weather isn't that good. They are cold. Some of them came with just flip- flops, so there's rows and rows of shoes they can choose from. I think they feel actually now we finally made it.

BLACKWELL: Melissa Fleming there with the High Commission of Refugees with the United Nations.

It's important to remember, though, although we're seeing these thousands of people and this video from Nickelsdorf, the train station in Austria, where many of the people who were walking are now being bussed to and heading on to Vienna, there are still people who are waiting to get to the border. I mean this has not been solved wholly. They still have to come up with a system that gets people to that point.

You see the numbers of refugees in that region. Millions there you see internationally displaced, more than 7.6 million. And we learned recently that in Jordan more than 200,000 Syrian refugees, they stopped receiving their vital needs, food from the World Food Program. So as Melissa articulated, there needs to be a system that supports these people. We know that there are talks, but still some contention on how to get that done.

PAUL: Right. But she made a very good point, it's not just Germany, it's not just, you know, Greece that doesn't have resources. It is a collective effort of the EU and many different countries to come together and make this happen, and that's what they are working towards now. We know they are getting together again shortly, some of their leaders, to figure out how to deal with this crisis and how to take care of these people. So we're going to continue obviously to follow this, this morning.

But also some other news we've been watching today is this Kentucky clerk who is still in jail this morning for refusing to give out marriage licenses. How long can this legal fight last? We're going to talk to her attorney next.

BLACKWELL: And supporters of same-sex marriage and religious rights activists, both sides you see here have been stating their cases in front of the courthouse in Kentucky. Later in the show I'll talk to the founder of the Gay Christian Network. Should the freedom of marriage or the freedom of religion win out?

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BLACKWELL: New details this morning in the ongoing Hillary Clinton e- mail controversy. As first reported in "The Washington Post," an official from Clinton's campaign says that the Clinton family personally paid a State Department staffer to maintain the private server. The arrangement ensured the taxpayer dollars were not spent on that server. Meanwhile that staffer, Bryan Pagliano, is scheduled to appear at a Congressional hearing next week on the issue but he will not answer questions. Pagliano's attorney says he will invoke his Fifth Amendment rights. PAUL: Let's turn to Kentucky now. County Clerk Kim Davis spending

her second straight morning in jail this holiday weekend, being held in contempt of court for refusing to hand out marriage licenses to same-sex couples obviously in defiance of the law. Despite her objections, five of her sex deputies did, in fact, hand out marriage licenses yesterday to both gay and straight couples. Davis says that paperwork is worthless without her name and signature.

In the meantime she's had some high-profile backers taking up her cause. Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal have praised her. Mike Huckabee says he's planning to visit her Tuesday.

Let's talk about this with Mat Staver. He is the founder of the Liberty Council and the attorney for the jailed clerk Kim Davis as well. Thank you so much, Mr. Staver, for being with us, we appreciate it.

MAT STAVER, FOUNDER, LIBERTY COUNCIL: Thank you.

PAUL: Yes, of course. In an interview, I want to read this to you with "The Morehead News" following her election, Davis promised to quote, be a good steward of your tax dollars and follow the statutes of this office to the letter. She said specifically to the office, not to her personal beliefs. In some way is she not breaking that oath?

STAVER: No, she's not. In fact, she is doing her good job. By the end of the year she'll return $1.5 million in savings to the county because of the efficiency of the office that she's running.

And when she ran for office, there was no such thing as same-sex marriage. The 5-4 opinion wasn't until months after that, and she couldn't envision that that might be something that she would encounter. In fact, she worked in this clerk's office for 27 years, and then when her mother retired after 40 years of being the clerk, she ran for office, and she ran in the Democratic primary, won there, and won against the Republican contender. And she's doing what the people want. She is providing good service.

But then on June 26th just about two months ago, 5-4 decision came down from the Supreme Court, and that's what ultimately start this controversy. And two months later now she's sitting in jail. She shouldn't be there. She's there as a prisoner, if you will, of her conscience. She won't resign because she wants to serve the people. If they change their mind they can certainly make that decision, but they want her to be there. She's going to serve them.

[10:20:07] But on the other hand, she can't violate her conscience. And what the issue is here is she can't issue a same-sex marriage license under her name and under her authority to authorize a marriage that is contrary to her Christian conviction. So she's asked for a simple accommodation. That accommodation has been requested by the other clerks of Kentucky, many of them, in fact the majority of them, to remove their names and their authority from the certificate, so that it doesn't come from the authority and under the name of the clerk. But it could come from the Commonwealth of Kentucky, for example and they just process it like they do a lien or a deed. But don't put it under their authority. That's the real issue.

PAUL: OK, but how would that change take effect? The legislature isn't back until January to make any changes.

STAVER: Well, the governor has already amended the marriage certificates after the June 26th hearing, the ruling by the Supreme Court. And the governor can do this again. We've asked the governor to do so. But he has refused to do so. They could call a special session, but that hasn't happened. There's a number of easy fixes. In fact even the president of the Senate asked the judge to delay this hearing because he says the marriage laws in Kentucky are shredded and the general assembly needs to come back and reconvene.

It's not just the issue of same-sex marriage, but when this opinion came down it affects a lot of the Kentucky marriage and domestic laws. So the president of the Senate issue a brief saying don't proceed with this contempt hearing, give the general assembly time. Instead of jailing Kim Davis, who is doing her job and is someone who should have her conscience accommodated, the judge could have toward certificates to be changed. The governor could have order the certificates to be changed. The legislature could have acted, or there could be a delay in this hearing.

PAUL: Let me ask you, first of all, and we have to be kind of brief here, but, one, how long is she prepared to stay in jail for this? And two, we know she's going to get a visit from former governor Mike Huckabee on Tuesday. What does she want to say to him?

STAVER: Well, you know, I visited her, and what she said to me when I wanted to encourage her, she encouraged me. She said all is well. So I'm sure she will encourage anyone. She's a very amazing woman. But she's willing to continue to be in this position and not violate her conscience. So however long that means she has to be jailed, she's prepared for this consequence. She's prepared for whatever consequences are ahead. One thing that she cannot do is violate her conscience. And if that means days, weeks, or months, she's prepared for those consequences.

PAUL: OK, Mat Staver, we so appreciate you being with us this morning, sir. Thank you.

STAVER: Thank you, my pleasure.

PAUL: Absolutely.

BLACKWELL: A high school in Louisiana is mourning the death of one of its football players today. Ahead we're going to talk about what happened on the field that ended his life.

Also, authorities may be one step closer to finding the infamous drug lord El Chapo after his son slipped up on social media.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:26:22] BLACKWELL: It's 26 minutes after the hour now. And we start with sad news from Winnsboro, Louisiana. A football player, Tyrell Cameron, at Franklin Parish High School, died from injuries while playing in a game last night.

PAUL: Also a 10-year-old boy is in a hospital this morning -- excuse me -- suffering from a list of crippling physical problems, including brain-damage. His father said he became ill shortly after a subcontractor of a pest control sprayed their home for termites. The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services says they are investigating the situation in collaboration with the EPA and state's department of health.

BLACKWELL: Hillary Clinton heads to New Hampshire today, and this is happening as details are revealed in her e-mail controversy. But she will not be the only candidate there. We're going to break down who is in town next.

Also, authorities may be close to catching up to Mexican drug lord Joaquin Guzman. We'll tell you how and what that has to do with social media. That's coming up too.

PAUL: And this week CNN's hero is a doctor who really gets involved with his patients in a sense. He talks about the danger of over sitting. So he is with them in terms of exercising and trying to get them to avoid some serious health risks. Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew something had to change on my end to stay healthy. I go in, all is sitting at the desk. You may be working a lot but you're at the desk sitting.

DR. DAVID SABGIR, CNN HERO: How far do you think you can walk before you had to stop?

The number one thing I see with my patients as a cardiologist was a sedentary lifestyle. I was frustrated at my ineffectiveness to create change in my patients. So I said, how about if my family goes to the park, would you be interested in joining us? We'll see you tomorrow at the walk. The response was phenomenal.

I wanted to talk about how easy taking care of ourselves can be.

There's no better way you can show a patient that you care about them than by going the extra mile with them. There's no wait in the office. There's no fear of bad news. It's just the patient and the physician talking about whatever the patient wants to talk about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The beginning of the walk, by the end of the year I've complete ad full marathon. I'm thinking of signing up for my second marathon. The doctor taught me you can achieve things that are really big, but it all starts with small steps.

SABGIR: How many miles do you have in already?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's 2.7.

SABGIR: And 80 percent of cardiac D.C. is preventable if we just go for a walk. If people just take that first step they will never look back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: How about that, a doctor who gets his patients out of the office? If you know someone who should be a CNN hero, Let us know, CNNHeroes.com.

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[10:33:00] PAUL: This morning thousands, yes, thousands of refugees are getting on trains in Austria to get to Germany. Here are some of the latest pictures we're getting in this morning. They are fatigued. They are hungry. But here they are. And they are greeted with cheers from Austrians who are trying to help them. The refugees are really relieved that they are getting out of Hungary at this point. They were stuck there at a train station for days, not being allowed to leave the country because they didn't have adequate paperwork. But now it looks like they will go to their final destination, or at least some of them, to Germany. We have people all along the routes covering this and we will keep you informed.

BLACKWELL: Yes. We'll check back later this morning. Let's go to politics and Hillary Clinton campaigning in New Hampshire this morning. She will likely be asked new questions about her e-mail server controversy because an official in the Clinton campaign revealed to "The Washington Post," and CNN has confirmed, that the Clinton family personally paid a State Department staffer to maintain her private server.

Meanwhile, along with New Hampshire, Clinton will head to Iowa tomorrow where her lead has slimmed to just seven percent. Bernie Sanders up to 30 percent in the latest "Des Moines Register" poll.

Let's talk now with CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein. Ron, good to have you this morning.

[10:35:12] RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

BLACKWELL: So there's been so much attention paid to national numbers obviously because of the debates, but you wrote this recently. You wrote "The only reliable formula for success has been to win the Iowa caucus, New Hampshire primary, or both, and then ride a wave of momentum into the large states that follow.

I got to ask you to explain for people.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, sure.

BLACKWELL: Santorum has been to nearly all the 99 counties in Iowa -- low single digits. Governor Christie has essentially moved to New Hampshire, low single digits. But you've got Donald Trump who is flying in and out for rallies just for that afternoon and he's out, and he's ahead of all of them.

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

BLACKWELL: Explain.

BROWNSTEIN: You know, we keep waiting for the year where all of the old rules no longer apply, and this might be that year. But the fact is that we've had the modern primary system since 1972, and over that period the Republicans have never nominated anyone in a contested race who did not win either Iowa or New Hampshire, one of the first two states. And the Democrats have only twice nominated someone who did not win Iowa and New Hampshire, and one of them was Bill Clinton in 1992 in a year where other candidates wrote off Iowa because Tom Harkin, senator at the time, was running there.

And what that tells you, Victor, is that once this starts, once people actually vote, the dynamic can change very quickly. And voters are very reluctant to cast ballots for candidates who they don't think can win.

Historically three things force candidates out of a race. They ran out of money, they ran out of media attention, they ran out of credibility with the voters. The first two really are not going to be a factor anymore. Super Pacs make money almost unlimited and we and all of the other media are covering this race very intently.

I think the big open question is whether voters are going to be willing to vote for people who don't win in Iowa and New Hampshire and don't establish that credibility right away. It could change, but it hasn't. The pattern has been very different over these last four decades.

BLACKWELL: So Ron, consider this. Over the last four decades there's never been a primary with 17 candidates running, so essentially someone could win the caucuses or the primary with a relatively small percentage. Mathematically, in New Hampshire you can do it in single digits if all 17 are in. How long can one stay in considering that the winner may only have 15, 18, 20 percent?

BROWNSTEIN: Right. It's a great question. First of all, the race that was most like this in terms of the number of candidates was 1976 Democratic race which was the only one that had a comparable number, I think it was 13 or 14 candidates. And that, in fact, was a very different pattern. Jimmy Carter was the nominee. He won New Hampshire, came in second in Iowa. But there were candidates who emerged all through the process, even late in the process. And there are those who think we could see something like that again this year.

I think the critical question remains, as I said, money and attention are going to be there for lots of candidates for a long time. The debates are an enormous new factor in the race. The question is will voters consider you viable if you don't win early.

You know, the best recent example was Rudy Giuliani in 2008. In 2007 he was higher in the national polls than Donald Trump is now. He didn't win in Iowa and New Hampshire. He put all of his eggs in Florida. And by the time he got there voters did not consider him viable, and he crashed and burned and was out of the race even after being at 50 percent in national polls in 2007, higher than Donald Trump is today.

And we know there are so many candidates who are staking their entire campaign on winning either Iowa or New Hampshire, essentially, as I said, moving to those states for next five months.

Ron Brownstein good, to have you back.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

PAUL: Authorities may be a step closer to catching Mexican drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman. Something developing this morning, what his son did that might have revealed his location.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:42:36] PAUL: Drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman may be hiding out right there in Mexico, with this tweet his son might have accidentally, perhaps, revealed their location. The drug lord escaped from a Mexican prison through an underground tunnel back in July. Nick Valencia is tracking this story for us. What have you learned, Nick?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christi. A $5 million reward and a small army of investigators so far has not been enough to capture the world's most notorious drug trafficker. But a tweeted posed on what we believe to be the account of El Chapo's son may provide a new clue to the drug lord's whereabouts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: Is this the newest photo of one of the world's most wanted fugitives? Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman's son would like the world to think so. This week posted on a Twitter page believed to belong to the son of the drug cartel kingpin, this caption -- "Comfortable here, you already know with who," blanked by two unidentified men whose faces are covered by oversize emojis, the photo appears to show 29- year-old Alfredo Guzman sitting at a restaurant with a man whose mustache resembles that of his father's.

It's clear from some of the comments many hope it is him. "These men give more to Mexico than our rotten government" one user writes. Another writes "Be safe, my hero."

The location tag on the photo says Costa Rica. CNN contacted Costa Rican authorities and said "We're aware of the picture that surfaced but we believe the Costa Rica they are talking about is not our country but a town in Mexico. There are no current investigations or operations targeting Mr. Guzman in Costa Rica."

There is a small fishing town about 30 minutes south of Sinaloa, Mexico, coincidentally, the same state in Mexico where El Chapo was born. A spokesman for Mexico's attorney general's office who is in charge of the manhunt to find El Chapo tells CNN "We are aware of the photo and looking into it."

It was nearly two months ago that Mexican authorities announced El Chapo, the world's most notorious drug trafficker, escaped from Mexico's maximum security prison using this tunnel.

The tunnel stretches for more than a mile, carved out earth here, this modified train tracks with that mini motorcycle. You see here electricity lines. It's very difficult to breath down here, a lot of dirt, dust. This here for the ventilation system. Tight, tight space down here. But for a man known as "El Chapo" I'm sure he more than enough room to work with.

[10:45:18] El Chapo has been on the run ever since with no signs of his whereabouts. If the Twitter photo actually is of the Mexican drug lord, the post is as bold and brazen as his escape, the drug kingpin's son seemingly mocking authorities, showing his father hiding in plain sight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: Now whether it was to brag, a mistake, or to try to throw off investigators, there's no telling if the son intended to leave that location tag on the photo. But in the past El Chapo's sons have both bragged about their opulent and lavish lifestyle. So for many people looking at this photo it's not too far-fetched to think it is the world's most notorious drug trafficker Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

PAUL: All right, Nick Valencia, thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: Balancing religion and politics, it's a difficult issue that we've been discussing all week, and we're going to talk with the founder of the Gay Christian Network about the clerk jailed in Kentucky for refusing to handout marriage licenses, and the presidential candidate who says this confirms, quote, "the criminalization of Christianity in our country."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:05] BLACKWELL: The debate over religion and politics rages in Kentucky and across the country as self-proclaimed Apostolic Christian Kim Davis sits in jail. She refused to issue marriage licenses for anyone after the Supreme Court's ruling legalizing same-sex marriage. So the question is, how can this be resolved and how can the country strike a balance here? We're joined by Justin Lee. He is the founder of the Gay Christian Network and the author of "Torn, Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays Versus Christians Debate." Justin, good to have you back.

JUSTIN LEE, FOUNDER, GAY CHRISTIAN NETWORK: Thanks so much for having me back.

BLACKWELL: So Justin, you support same-sex marriage. You're a self- described devout evangelical. Should Kim Davis be in jail right now?

LEE: Well, you know, my hope is that she won't be. I mean, here's the thing. We live in a country with people with all kinds of different religious beliefs, and for us to live together in the country, we have to -- I mean, we've decided that freedom of religion is important to us. But that means for me to have freedom of religion I also need to give you the freedom to practice your faith in a way that may be contrary to what I believe.

So the challenge here is that Miss Davis is in a government role. So in her private role she has the ability to teach and preach and believe and advocate for what she thinks is right. And I support that 100 percent. I run an organization full of Christians who disagree with each other on same-sex marriage. But when she's in her government role, she can't then step in and try to prevent other people from practicing their own faith, which may include a marriage that she does not approve of.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about the political element of this. We know that former Arkansas governor and now presidential candidate Mike Huckabee will be traveling to Kentucky to visit Miss Davis on Tuesday. There's a rally scheduled. There's also a petition on his website. And he said this through a statement. Mike Huckabee said "Having Kim Davis in federal custody removes all doubt of the criminalization of Christianity in our country." Aside from the content, what do you think, what's your assessment of the strategy here being used by the Huckabee campaign?

LEE: Well, you know, gosh, I hate to hear somebody say something like "the criminalization of Christianity." I think there are places around the world where Christianity and other faiths are criminalized, and the United States is not one of them. And I think we need to be really, really careful about saying things like that.

The thing is, as a Christian I would not want to live in a country where government officials are allowed to prioritize their own religious beliefs over mine and infringe on my religious beliefs as a Christian, as an evangelical. That's important to me as an evangelical and it's important to me as an American. So really that's not what's going on here. I think we all Christian and non-Christian need to recognize that we live in a country with a lot of folks who we don't agree with, and we've got to be able to live together and work together without every time something happens that I don't agree with and I start complaining that I'm somehow being oppressed by that.

BLACKWELL: Well, Justin Lee, founder of the Gay Christian Network, we thank you so much for joining us. We know that you heard from Christi's interview with Mat Staver that Miss Davis is prepared to be there for days, weeks, or months, and we'll see how long this goes on. Thanks so much for being with us.

LEE: Thanks for having me.

BLACKWELL: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:57:50] BLACKWELL: All right, now that we can finally put the deflate-gate talk to rest -- some people can, and some people will never let it go -- we can now turn our attention the actual games. (LAUGHTER)

PAUL: Something really special for you here at CNN before the season kicks off on Thursday night when the Patriots host the Steelers. CNN's sports anchor and nine year NFL player Coy Wire, mind you, you've had a lot of fun lately.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: I've had a lot of fun. Christi, Victor, we have 30 minutes of NFL awesomeness for you. The CNN family coming up, we'll break down the top story lines heading in to the season. Cool features, too. I got to go Arizona to meet the Arizona Cardinals to learn about how they and five other teams have stepped into the future with their training to prepare for the upcoming season. Virtual reality training is changing the game. We'll also bring you top coaches and players, including Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning who sat down with our Rachel Nichols. Here's a sneak peek of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How much longer do you see yourself playing?

PEYTON MANNING, DENVER BRONCOS QUARTERBACK: It's hard to say. I don't have -- I'm not able to predict the future. I'm looking forward to playing this season, and then, like always, I think you have to kind of assess things at the end of the season. But I certainly hope to be playing next year as well. I still enjoy competing, and I think as long as you can compete you can help a team. I think everybody wants to keep doing it. If you can do it into your 40s, all the better. But right now I feel good. I want to keep playing as long as I do feel good, as long as I can still help the team.

NICHOLS: You know, of course, an e-mail was made public in which Tom Brady told his dad he would ultimately win that friendly rivalry between you two because he's going to outlast you by five or six years. What was your reaction when you heard that?

MANNING: Tom sent me a text. He apologized my name was brought up into this. No harm, no foul. It was an unnecessary apology. Tom and I have had a good friendship throughout our careers and we'll continue to have a good friendship long after we play. So I really didn't give it a whole lot of attention.

[11:00:00] WIRE: You can see more of Rachel's interview on CNN's pro football preview. She'll be hosting with Dan Marino.