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U.S. Admits Air Strike on Afghan Hospital; A Look at the O.J. Simpson Verdict 20 Year Ago; Trump Talks Guns, Goes Off on Question of Quitting Race; Baby Shot in Cleveland Drive-By Shooting. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired October 06, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] BRIG. GEN. ANTHONY TATA, RETIRED U.S. ARMY Well, I think it's just a good indicator of why time lines are never a good idea. Combat is event driven. I can remember when I was in the deputy command general in Afghanistan and we had Secretary Gates come over and we said to him we don't have enough troops here and in my view the Afghanistan fight since day one has been under resourced. And Secretary Gates to his credit said OK, we're going to get you more troops and we have another combat team on the ground in the time frame. So it's a dynamic situation. And timelines are never a good idea in combat because the goal is victory and the goal is to deny sanctuary to terrorists that want to do us harm as they did on 9/11. So the time line idea is never a good idea.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: But, Sergeant, I know you have some strong opinions about this because you believe we should pull out altogether. Why is that?
SGT. DEREK MATTHEWS, MARINE CORPS VETERAN: Well, I think one of the things that the general said is that when he asked for troops in '07, that Secretary Gates was able to accommodate that. President Obama came in 2009 and asked for more troops and that was a part of that surge in 2010 and '11. We're seeing the same kind of story. More American troops are going to solve these issues in Afghanistan. And every time that that fails to me trick late, we see the same call for more troops in Afghanistan. Now here we are 14 years in the longest war in American history. When is enough enough?
BROWN: General, very quickly. How big of a national security threat is the Taliban in Afghanistan?
TATA: Well, I think the Taliban threat is really the threat of hosting al Qaeda and other types of threats as they did on 9/11, that created the 9/11 attacks. So what you had the history lesson is 14 years ago the Taliban was protecting al Qaeda within Afghanistan providing them sanctuary. So the real issue is rooting sanctuary and not allowing sanctuary. As you heard the general say, it's a about standing up and providing assistance to the Afghan police, the Afghan army and creating the capacity of the Afghan leaders to lead that country and deny sanctuary to those terrorists that would like to do us harm.
BROWN: The big question now is how much would happen with the mistake against that hospital undermine our efforts there in the region.
Sergeant Derek Matthews and General Anthony Tata, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
TATA: Thank you, Pam.
BROWN: Coming up, it has been 20 years since the trial of the century. A look back at the O.J. Simpson verdict and the hype that surrounded it, including a letter the Goldmans sent to O.J. Simpson.
Plus, Donald Trump lashing out over suggestions that he might drop out of the race. Hear why he's angry, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:37:16] BROWN: It's been 20 years since O.J. Simpson was acquitted of killing his wife and friend. Tonight, at 9:00 eastern, CNN revisits the case in our special report, "The O.J. Verdict: Shock of the Century." He was found liable in a wrongful death lawsuit later. Here's are preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SHOUTING)
KYRA PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cameras are not allowed this time, but O.J. Simpson's deposition tapes are later revealed to the world. ABC's "20/20" played exerts from the tapes.
Goldman family attorney, Daniel Petrocelli, questions O.J. Simpson. Watch as he explains the bruising on Nicole's face.
DANIEL PETROCELLI, GOLDMAN FAMILY ATTORNEY: You see the bruises on her face?
O.J. SIMPSON, DEFENDANT: No.
PETROCELLI: You don't see anything?
SIMPSON: No, I mean I see this eye thing.
PETROCELLI: You don't think this picture reflects any bruising or marks on Nicole's face?
SIMPSON: No, I don't.
PETROCELLI: What do you think this reflects?
SIMPSON: It reflects doing a movie that we're doing and we're doing makeup.
PHILLIPS: And what about the shoes that left bloody footprints at the crime scene?
SIMPSON: I know if Bruno Mali (ph) makes shoes that look like the shoes in this case, I would have never, for one, worn those ugly ass shoes.
PHILLIPS: Simpson again denies wearing Bruno Mali (ph) shoes. But Petrocelli does something the prosecutors in the criminal trial never could. He proves O.J. Simpson owned the very same pair of shoes.
PETROCELLI: And that is a picture of you looking at exhibit one, correct?
SIMPSON: It appears to be me, yes.
PETROCELLI: Look at the close-up of the shoes. Do you believe those were shoes that you owned at that time?
SIMPSON: No.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Wow.
CNN investigative correspondent, Kyra Phillips, joins me now to discuss.
Isn't that chilling? Incredible. And the look on his face when that picture was shown, that was the look of someone that's been caught.
PHILLIPS: Oh yes -- exactly. Just imagine if we would have heard that or seen that prior to this trial, how it changed the dynamic of what happened and how people felt. The case of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown being murdered, it went poof. Everybody forgot that two people were murdered and it became centered on race and this country became divided. 60 percent of Americans in this country thought he was innocent. Now that's since changed. It's more than 50 percent of Americans say he's guilty 20 years later. But you see the depositions tapes and you think, my god, look at how he lied, look at how dishonest he was. And then --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: And he couldn't see the producing on her face? And showing those pictures?
PHILLIPS: He says it was makeup because they were working on a movie. It's so disappointing.
[14:40:07] BROWN: You wonder how the Goldman family and Nicole Brown Simpson's family felt watching those tapes. You spoke to the family.
PHILLIPS: You know, Pam, when I covered this 20 years ago, a lot of the folks involved here couldn't say a lot of things about the investigation. The Goldmans have always been so up front and honest and heartfelt, and that has not changed. 20 years later, I said to Mr. Goldman, as we sit here and talk about two decades later, what bothers you the most? He says, "That the SOB got away with it. That the SOB got away with it."
BROWN: And you actually are reporting in this special that you're doing on a note that the Goldman family gave to O.J. Simpson. Tell us about that.
PHILLIPS: They -- especially Kim, she struggled. What would I say to him? I want to heal but I have so much anger. So what they decided to do was send him a "welcome to your new home" card and sent that to him in jail in Las Vegas.
But I will tell you, and I want to mention, she just came out with a new book called "Media Circus: A Look at Private Tragedy in the Public Eye." She interviews other families, Sharon Tate, Eric Gardner, the D.C. sniper, she interviews family members and talks about kind of the media circus and what it's like to be in the spotlight and grieve and deal with these types of situations. It's pretty riveting. That has helped her heal through this process.
BROWN: Very interesting. Would love to take a look at that.
Kyra Phillips, thank you.
PHILLIPS: Thank you. Thank you.
BROWN: And we look forward to watching your special. That special report, "The O.J. Verdict," airs tonight at 9:00 eastern time.
And up next, Donald Trump goes off during a CNN interview about everyone asking him when he's going to drop out of the race. Doesn't he have a point because, after all, he is the front runner? You'll hear from him, after this break.
Plus, chilling new 911 calls from the horrifying moment an infant is shot during a drive-by.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
CALLER: A little kid just got shot. A baby just got shot.
DISPATCHER: Listen to me, honey.
CALLER: Oh, my god, man.
DISPATCHER: Listen, I need you to help me. Listen, honey --
(END AUDIO FEED)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOP presidential front runner, Donald Trump, speaking this morning to CNN anchor, Chris Cuomo, on "New Day." They debated the crisis in Syria, gun control and whether Trump will drop out of the race. At times, the conversation got a bit animated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: Have you given consideration -- I read somewhere you said if I fell behind badly I would get out. Are you thinking about when you would get out of this race? DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION:
Not even a thought. Not even 1 percent of a thought. It's a phony deal that was perpetrated on the public. I was asked a simple question by Chuck Todd at "Meet the Press." I gave a very honorable and honest answer. I said, sure if I was doing terribly like some of these people, I wouldn't stay in. But I'm not. I'm leading every single poll. One poll came out the other day, I'm at 35 percent nationally, 35 percent. I'm 20 points ahead of everybody else. Why would I get out? So they asked me a question. Instead of saying I watch these guys down at zero and 1 percent and ask the same question, will you think about getting out? Oh, I'll never get out, I'll never get out. You know they are going to be out in the next two weeks, OK, but --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I understand where your take is on them --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, no, I'm not getting out. I'm not going anywhere, Chris. I'm leading every poll. I'm leading every state. I'm not going anywhere. OK --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Great to hear.
TRUMP: I gave a very honest answer. I said, look, if for some reason I had no chance and I collapsed and they take that as an, oh, maybe there's weakness in Trump. There's no weakness. I'm not going anywhere. I'm leading every poll. I'm going to win and I'm going to make our country great again. I'm not in this to have self-worth. I have enough of that. It's happening all over the United States that the economy is doing badly and cities are trying to save money and the first thing they close are mental institutions, if you can believe it. And we have a problem of mental health. This is not -- the gun didn't shoot. A person shot the gun. And frankly, you're going to have people even if you had great mental health facilities -- nobody knew he had the idea. When his mother heard about it and other people in the area heard about it, some of them said, oh, I could see that with him. But others were very surprised. It's a very tough situation. And when you go down to a -- it may not be politically correct but people will slip through the cracks. And it's happened for thousands of years. If you go into the future thousands of years, you're going to have crazy things happen and people slip through the cracks. It's one of those things that's horrible and it's a horrible thing to see.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: One of the things that you really should focus on is keeping the names down because I really believe the reason was more of it than other countries, and we do, is the copy cat --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: That's the easiest part to control is how much attention you give the shooters.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- give as little attention as possible. The sheriff was right, not mentioning his name. You try to give as little attention as possible. It's a real problem and a major real mental health problem that we have.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:50:05] BROWN: By the way, we are one week away from the first Democratic debate Tuesday night, October 13th. That's the CNN Democratic debate, only on CNN.
Up next, a 5-month-old baby shot to death, hit by a stray bullet in a Cleveland drive-by shooting. And now that city is saying enough is enough as the 911 call is released.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Cleveland's police chief has begged his city to understand that enough is enough. Just last week, yet another child was killed by gunfire. It was a baby girl just 5 months old and she was the third child to die in the past month. She and her mother were caught in a drive-by shooting on the way home from the grocery store.
911 tapes captured by bystander's frantic attempts to get help. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
CALLER: A little kid just got shot. A little baby just got shot.
DISPATCHER: Listen to me, honey.
CALLER: Oh, my god, man.
DISPATCHER: Listen, I need you to help me. Listen, honey, how old is the baby?
CALLER: It's a baby. A baby.
DISPATCHER: A baby baby?
CALLER: A baby, like maybe 4 months. It's a baby.
DISPATCHER: Listen, is she awake?
CALLER: No, I don't know. I don't know.
DISPATCHER: Is she breathing?
CALLER: No.
DISPATCHER: Is she breathing and she's not awake. Listen to me. You have to get her -- listen to me. CALLER: That' her mother holding her.
DISPATCHER: What part of her body was she shot?
CALLER: We don't know. She's --
(SHOUTING)
CALLER: Her mother won't turn her loose.
(END AUDIO FEED)
BROWN: That's her mother holding her. Gosh, that is hard to listen to.
This heinousness of the crime prompted this tweet from Cleveland Cavaliers Lebron James. He says, "Like, seriously man, a baby shot in the chest in Cleveland? It's been out of control but it's really OOC. Don't fall into the trap. This can't be the only way. Accept more from yourselves."
Very good point there.
Joining me now is "Daily Beast" special correspondent, Michael Daly.
Your op-ed is very gripping. You talked about this little girl, the third child to die in just the past month. You said she wasn't even old enough to go to school.
MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, DAILY BEAST: It was the same day as the shooting at the community college in Oregon. She's only 5 months old. And it's kid after kid after kid who can't be killed in a school shooting because they are not old enough to go to school.
BROWN: Why is it that this death struck such a chord with you? You were getting teary eyed watching the tapes.
DALY: If you have ever had a baby, lucky enough to have a baby, and you know that fresh smell off the top of their heads -- I mean, there's a million times I have ridden with my kids through Brooklyn. One of them was around two shootings. We were lucky nothing happened. You have them in that car seat. They have all these federally mandated child safety instructions. There's nothing like that on guns. And the idea that some kid is strapped in a car seat riding with her mother at the start of her life in the United States of America and gets hit by a bullet -- that mother, you can hear that mother's voice.
BROWN: The sad truth is that it's not an anomaly. Your emotion is share d by a lot of people including the police chief there in Cleveland. Let's take a listen to what he said about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CALVIN WILLIAMS, CHIEF, CLEVELAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: The family -- it's tough. It's tough. This should not be happening in our city. We have to do something about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So there's a bit of a dichotomy here because, as you said, this happened on the same day as the Oregon shooting massacre. That got so much attention. Other shootings this year have gotten so much attention. Where's the outrage with these?
DALY: These maniacs, who are looking for attention, they came to this last game came to the conscious decision that you have to kill a lot of people to get attention. The proof of that is we get one kid killed at a time and everybody just shrugs. And we get all 10 killed at a time.
BROWN: Do you think it's because we have sort of accepted this? Why do you think that is?
DALY: I think that there's this decision in America that nothing can be done about it, that these things keep happening. There's talk about doing something and nothing is done and everybody keeps running up against the second amendment. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and that should apply to babies riding through Cleveland. And you can't tell me that the founding fathers, when they were talking about muskets to guard us against the British, were thinking we're going to get baby after baby after baby killed by stray rounds.
BROWN: It's unacceptable and we can't tolerate this as a society. I think we can all agree on that.
Thank you so much, Michael Daly.
And top of the hour now.
I'm Pamela Brown.
I want to start with a new admission of a deadly mistake. Doctors and children killed as the U.S. drops bombs on a charity hospital in Afghanistan. Doctors Without Borders describing scenes of devastation.
