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Carson Defends Murdoch's "Black President" Tweet; Kevin McCarthy Pulls Bid for House Speakership; Boehner Cancels "Tonight Show" Appearance; Russian Missiles Misfire, Land in Iran; Hero Spencer Stone Stabbed at Bar. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 08, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: There has been a real desire on the part of Republicans to have their version of Obama, who is black like Obama, but has very different politics. We're talking about a party that, if you look at presidential politics, there's never been a black person to win any state in a Republican primary. So each time there's a presidential race, we have had these African-Americans rise in the polls because this is a party that desperately wants to shed its image of being a party inhospitable to African-Americans, if you look at that autopsy from 2012. And I think Ben Carson plays into that desire and it's part of his appeal.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So let's talk about, frankly, all of the backlash that he has garnered because of a number of comments over the past year. I want to roll them and we'll talk about them on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: If you were in the White House, what would you be doing with Tropical Storm Joaquin? What would you be doing if you were in the White House? What would be your first step?

CARSON: I don't know.

CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR, MEET THE PRESS: Do you believe that Islam is consistent with the Constitution?

CARSON: No, I don't. I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: You think being gay is a choice?

CARSON: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Why do you say that?

CARSON: Because a lot of people who go into prison go in straight and when they come out they're gay.

Marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a well-established fundamental pillar of society. And no group, be they gays or people who believe in bestiality, they don't -- it doesn't matter what they are, they don't get to change the definition.

This was really, I think, on my behalf, somewhat insensitive. And I certainly apologize if I offended anyone because I was not in any way comparing gays with people who engage in bestiality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: How damaging are those remarks because, after each one, his poll numbers do not take a hit?

HENDERSON: They are not damaging at all. Here's a candidate who has called Obama a psychopath. He said a number of things that some people find troubling but haven't damaged him in the polls at all. Republicans like him. They like he brings a different face to the Republican Party as well in terms of race and making the party seem like it's more diverse. I think, so far, so good for Ben Carson. We'll have to see how it plays out.

HARLOW: If he's able to get the nomination, does that equation change in a general election?

HENDERSON: Certainly, I think so. I think that equation in terms of what he says -- and I talked to his people about this. They feel like he will evolve as a candidate. In some ways, they see those prior comments sort of as the bad old days of Carson and once he gets into the meteor part of this contest, where you talk about policy, he'll have a better chance in this race.

HARLOW: Nia-Malika Henderson, thank you, as always.

HENDERSON: Thank you.

HARLOW: Fascinating analysis here and, of course, on CNNpolitics.com.

Coming up next, more on our breaking news. Shock, absolute shock on Capitol Hill. As Republicans gathered inside a room to nominate the next House speaker, the one who was favored for the post suddenly drops out, leaving everyone stunned. We're just getting word that John Boehner, who wants to get out of that job, just made a big move as well. Stand by for more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:37:55] HARLOW: Breaking news and big questions following the shock that's reverberating across Washington. Republican Kevin McCarthy stunning his own party announcing a few hours ago he's dropping his bid to replace John Boehner as House speaker. It's not just that he dropped out, it was where and when he announced it. He was in a room with his fellow Republicans just as they were about to vote on who to nominate.

We're going to talk about it with Republican strategist and CNN political contributor, Margaret Hoover; and former U.S. representative of Michigan, Mike Rogers.

First, Brian Stelter with us with some breaking news on the man who is currently still the House speaker, John Boehner, supposed to be in this city tonight no longer.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: No longer. Just to give you a sense of the chaos in Washington, John Boehner was supposed to be on the way to New York for "The Tonight Show" with Jimmy Fallon. He was supposed to be taping tonight. It was a recently scheduled appearance as part of his going away-tour. That tour now on hold and so is the appearance. At 1:20 p.m., NBC was still on. 1:40, Boehner cancelled. So NBC with a whole new line up tonight.

HARLOW: He's not going away right now.

STELTER: He's not going away right now.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: It's an example of that chaos that affected the entire Republican leadership but Boehner personally. He's not sure how much longer he'll be in his role. For now, no reason to make jokes with Jimmy Fallon tonight.

HARLOW: Absolutely not, since he's still the speaker. He does say in a statement that he thinks it will be sorted out in the next few weeks. We will see.

STELTER: Right.

HARLOW: Brian Stelter on the story. Thank you.

STELTER: Thanks.

HARLOW: Margaret Hoover, to you, and then Congressman Rogers, a few things can happen here. In interim, or you can get the party to come behind someone. This is a call from -- McCarthy was unity, party first ahead of me.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The Republican caucus wants unity. We know, both from an external standpoint and in the inner works of the House, the future of the Republican Party and GOP in 2016 starts with that refreshed race of speaker. The person who is at the third in line for the presidency and the head of the House of Representatives will set the table for the 2016 race, which is why the Benghazi comments did contribute to his decision and why somebody who knows how to communicate externally as a representative of the party is incredibly important. They could have an interim leader in order to give the caucus time to build consensus around one person. My guess is you're going to see some new names get in this because the names we have been seeing don't have the votes to unify the tribes, so to speak, within the Republican conference.

[14:40:27] HARLOW: Congressman Rogers, to you. You say Chaffetz does not have the votes. He said it's about the math and the math doesn't add up for McCarthy, so he gets in. You don't think he has the numbers. So who?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: I think they are going to have to take a step back. Parties or coalitions, the Democrat Party is a series of coalitions. The Republican Party is a series of coalitions. And who can put the face in front of those coalitions that brings them all together and allows them to elect a speaker? They are going to look at old hands around Congress. I know we talked about Draft Paul Ryan. I'm a little skeptical he would do that. You have to be a political animal to be able to be speaker of the House these days. I think people like Greg Walden, who has -- long-term, he served on the political -- the NRCC, which did all the politics for all the members. He knows all the members well. He knows all their districts and challenges. He knows their political temperament. He has been a subcommittee chairman on the Energy and Commerce Committee, a real leader there. So somebody like that that can bridge these gaps and still understands communication and politics and policy. I think that's the kind of guy they are going to have to look for, or lady, to unify what looks like trouble for them if they don't get their act together soon.

HARLOW: And, Margaret, you're in the Draft Paul Ryan camp.

HOOVER: I'm glad that Congressman Rogers mentioned Paul Ryan because Greg Walden is a great guy, I'm a big fan of his, but you need somebody who can unify the Freedom Caucus along with the other caucuses. And Greg Walden is more of a centrist. The freedom conference really respects Paul Ryan. He has been a true fiscal conservative. He may be one of the only profiles that could rise to the top. He doesn't want to do it. He'd rather stay the head of ways and means committee, but he's sometimes susceptible to calls to serve his country. He's done that before when he ran for V.P. and he has had national experiences running not just for the vice presidency, but also whipping his budget through Congress. In my view, he's the best candidate to really set the table for 2016 for the Republican Party.

HARLOW: Congressman Rogers, to you, a reporter asked, in the brief statements that Kevin McCarthy gave today, they said, did these Benghazi comments, the comments about the Select Committee on Benghazi hurting Hillary Clinton's poll numbers, did they play into this decision. He said that wasn't helpful, I could have said it better, that's part of the decision as well. Was that the demise of this run?

ROGERS: I think it was one factor in the demise of the run. There's a real difference of opinion in one of the larger coalitions in the House of Representatives, at least the Republicans in the House of Representatives today. And no one has quite figured out how to thread that needle. And you have to want to govern. And getting 80 percent of what you want and taking that deal, like the Reagan Republicans, which is the majority of the Republicans in Congress, works for governance. There's a faction that says, no, we don't want 99 percent, we want 100 percent. We're going to figure out a way, Republicans are going to have to figure out a way to thread that needle to get to the governance party and conservative principles. They haven't got there yet. They are going to need that candidate to do that. They wanted a scalp. They were out for Kevin McCarthy before he announced that he wanted to be speaker because they want concessions.

I thought it was something telling that he said, Poppy, is that they asked him to do things that he could not promise to do. That's going to be interesting. That will come out over the next few days. I'm going to be fascinated to see what kinds of power extractions they were trying to get and what that meant for good governance in the future. I think that's going to be pretty telling.

HARLOW: We'll see if this is hitting the refresh button for the party and leadership there, as Margaret just said.

Margaret Hoover, thank you.

HOOVER: Thank you.

[14:44:26] HARLOW: Congressman Mike Rogers, as always, appreciate it.

Coming up next, more breaking news. Russian missiles misfire. Military strikes intended for Syria land in Iran instead. What does it means for the tension there?

Also, the American hero who helped thwart that train attack in France now hospitalized after being repeatedly stabbed at a bar in California. Details on that, when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We are getting breaking news just into us here at CNN. The governor of Oklahoma just admitting that corrections officials in her state may have used the wrong drug to execute a prisoner. Charles Warner was executed back in January and, according to the governor of the state, the mix up only came to light after state officials stayed the execution last week because they were sent potassium acetate instead of chloride. At the time of his execution, there were reports that Warner had said that, quote, "My body is on fire." We will bring you more on that disturbing development as soon as we have it.

[14:50:01] Another story we're following closely, a shocking incident in Russia's military intervention in Syria. Two U.S. officials telling CNN several Russian cruise missiles fired from the Caspian Sea aimed at targets in western Syria have crash landed in Iran, specifically, we're told that it was four of them. They never made it over Iran into Syria. It's not clear where they landed in Iran or if anyone was hurt.

Joining me now is Jill Dougherty, former CNN Moscow bureau chief, who has extensive knowledge on Putin and his thinking here.

First, your reaction to this, the fact that it appears, according to two top officials, these missiles didn't make it, they landed in Iran.

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Number one, you have to look at those reports and ask whether they are correct. I don't see anyone on the record making that statement. So it would be good to look for some confirmation. If it is true, and again that's a big if, it would be very significant after all the Russians have been touting the accuracy of their weapons. That was one very big thing that President Putin was talking about with his defense minister. And then also just the implications of what could happen if missiles like that go astray in some country. Apparently, according to these unconfirmed reports, landing in Iran, crashing in Iran, what if it had hit some populated area. So there are a lot of concerns about this. Just have to see how it plays out.

But I can tell you here where I am, which is the Baltics, that used to be part of the Soviet Union. They are now independent countries. They are part of NATO. So people here are looking closely. A lot of concern from NATO about how quickly Russia was able to move in forces into Syria. So NATO is making strong statements. The secretary- general saying, NATO is here, we have your back. We're on the ground. And actually the U.K. is bringing in 100 troops that it is permanently stationing in the three countries here in the Baltics. The implications of what's going on in Syria are spreading to other parts of the world.

HARLOW: U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter said today that, "We have seen increasingly unprofessional behavior from Russian forces." This is building on comments he said yesterday saying, "The U.S. is not ready to cooperate on airstrikes in Syria," calling the Russian strategy flawed. Do you see, Jill, any Russian strategy that the United States would agree with? And would operate alongside?

DOUGHERTY: At this point, it doesn't appear that is going to happen. One of the key elements is the fact that the United States policy is to have Assad out of the picture. The president of Syria and the Russians want to keep him in the picture. At least at this point, until there's something that potentially could take over. So I don't see a meeting of the minds at all. The rhetoric is very strong and very aggressive on both sides.

HARLOW: Jill Dougherty, thank you for the analysis, as always. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, the American hero who helped thwart a train attack in France -- you remember those images very well -- now hospitalized after being reportedly stabbed near a bar in California. We'll have that.

Also, at any moment, Donald Trump will be hosting a rally in Las Vegas at any moment. We'll see if he reacts to the breaking news out of Capitol Hill this afternoon. We'll bring some of that to you live. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:58:05] HARLOW: An American hero, who not only survived a terror attack but helped bring down that terrorist, has been stabbed. We're talking about Spencer Stone, and three other Americans. Those men were hailed as heroes after rushing and hog tying that terrorist who boarded the train bound for Paris back in August.

Jason Carroll, CNN national correspondent, following it all and joining me now.

Talk about a lucky man in terms of surviving both of these. JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Really an incredible

story when consider not once but twice. This is the second time that Spencer Stone has found himself in a life-threatening situation.

This most recent incident took place in downtown Sacramento. I have spoken to police about what happened. Apparently, this all started as a dispute between two groups of people, which may have started at a local nightclub. Stone was out with four of his friends when they got into some sort of an argument with two other men that somehow led to a fight. Apparently, a passer by called police at 12:46 a.m. pacific time, the caller saying that someone was hurt. When police arrived, they found Stone had been stabbed several times in the upper body. They also say it sounds like alcohol was involved.

Just a few hours ago, police gave a description of the suspects wanted in connection with the stabbing. Detectives say Stone was not specifically targeted because of his heroic actions in France and this was not related to terrorism. Again, Stone was one of five men who helped stop a gunman from attacking passengers on a train headed to Paris in August. Stone was stabbed with a box cutter during that incident.

As for the Sacramento case, at last check, the suspects are still at large. They are described as two Asian males. They were both wearing white T-shirts and blue jeans. Police believe the suspects fled in a 2009 or 2012 dark-colored grey Toyota Camry.

As for Stone, he is in stable condition. He had significant injuries, but, again, in stable condition and expected to make a full recovery.

HARLOW: We wish him the best.