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Interview with Republican Presidential Candidate Ben Carson; Democratic Presidential Candidate Lincoln Chafee Says Hillary Clinton is Flip-Flopping. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 08, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: He said look at the guys over. Just rob the place and then get out?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Exactly.

BLITZER: Rupert Murdoch, switching gears, tweeted this. Praising you and your wife. I'll put it on the screen taking a swipe at President Obama. Ben and Candy Carson, terrific. What about a real black president who can properly address the racial divide and much else?

That's a pretty shocking statement. He's now apologized in effect, but that was pretty ugly.

CARSON: Well, I know Rupert Murdoch. He's not a racist. (INAUDIBLE) stretch with imagination. He's just expressing his opinion. I think it's much to do about nothing.

BLITZER: But he is suggesting that President Obama is not a real black president, at least he did in that initial statement.

CARSON: Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I believe what he was making reference to was the fact that here was who is a black president that the black community was very excited about who came in and whose policies have not really elevated the black community, has not been beneficial. There's more unemployment, more poverty. And I believe that's what he was really referring to.

BLITZER: You believe the president is a real black president, though, right?

CARSON: I wouldn't even get into such a controversy.

BLITZER: Which is a simple question. Is President Obama a real black president?

CARSON: Well, he is the president and he is black.

BLITZER: So let's talk about some of the other issues. The debt ceiling, as you know, nearly November, it's got to be raised otherwise the U.S. will fail to pay what it already has accumulated as far as its financial obligations. What would you do about that if you were president of the United States? CARSON: If we keep raising it, it's sort of like, OK, you've reached

the limit for your fourth credit card. I'll tell you what, why don't we get a fifth credit card. That's not solving the problem. So no, I'm not in favor of continually raising the debt ceiling.

BLITZER: You like Donald Trump?

CARSON: Yes, absolutely.

BLITZER: Because he said you were just an OK doctor. And we know you aren't just an OK doctor.

CARSON: It's OK, you know. I told him he was an OK doctor too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: I'm joined by Wolf Blitzer.

Wolf, your take, what stood out to you? I mean, you got to every single criticism he's faced in these controversial comments and by the way, don't hurt his poll numbers. What stood out to you?

BLITZER: Well, I'm an issue of the national debt. He did say go ahead and raise it in November when it's due. The United States should not default, but take steps at the same time to make sure a year later you don't have to do it again. You start cutting spending. You eliminate programs. You become a whole lot more frugal. He did say that. So at least he explained how he would do it. But he did say go ahead and raise the debt, at least when it's due in November. I thought that was significant.

He also was also very tough on Putin. Putin and Russia is doing in Syria right now. You know, some of these other issues, whether on guns or whether or not President Obama is a real black president, you know, he answered the questions, but you know, he probably didn't go as far as a lot of people would have liked him to go.

HARLOW: Well, at one point he even said I'm sort not going to justify with an answer, but then didn't give any clear direction.

BLITZER: No. He did say President Obama was born in the United States. He that flatly. I said is he a Christian. He says I'll take him at his word. And I said well, if he goes to church, he believes in Christ, he is a Christian. He said I will take him at his word if he is a Christian. And on the issue of real black president, he didn't want to really say he is, but he said he is back and president and I'll leave it at that.

HARLOW: He felt like that tweet was much to do about nothing his words. Another very --

BLITZER: But Rupert Murdoch did apologize. And he came by and said that was inappropriate, which was the right thing to do.

HARLOW: And pointed to "New York" magazine article that he had read and that he was talking about. Also, you talked about his very controversial comments about Nazi Germany. Let's roll those.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARSON: My point is that was one of the countries that I menaced. There were a number of countries that were tyranny reigned and before it happened, they disarmed the people. That was the point. Noah Webster said when talking about tyranny that the people of America would never suffer tyranny because they are armed.

BLITZER: So, but just clarify it. If there had been no gun control laws in Europe at that time, would six million Jews have been slaughtered?

CARSON: I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Such an important issue to have him address. Did you feel you got a full report?

BLITZER: Yes. And if you go through his new book because his book just came out today. He explains what he really means by that he feels -- the point he's making right now, he doesn't want to see greater gun control legislation, really doesn't want to see much going on that front and wants to see more people armed in the United States. And I is said what about kindergarten teachers? He said if necessary, yes, there should be in almost every school, there should be someone who is armed to protect the kids. Because he feels very strongly about the second amendment and the opportunity for people to have guns and protection in the United States especially in the aftermath of the mass killings.

HARLOW: You did a fascinating half hour long interview. I assume for anyone that missed it, we can see it on the "SITUATION ROOM."

BLITZER: You will see a big chuck of it.

[15:35:01] HARLOW: Big chuck of it tonight in Wolf's show, "SITUATION ROOM."

Wolf, thank you. Nice to have you here in New York. Wolf will be back at 5:00 eastern with all of that.

Next, Hillary Clinton doing a 180 on a controversial trade deal that she supported for a very long time. Why she's not supporting it now just days ahead of the key Democratic debate. I'll speak live with one of her rivals who will be on that debate stage, Lincoln Chafee. That's ahead.

Also later, children caught in the cross fire. The heartbreaking video that shows the real toll those airstrikes, those Russian airstrikes in Syria.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:40:00] HARLOW: Did Hillary Clinton flip-flop or simply change her mind when she announced last night she's now against the TPP or the Transpacific Partnership, a huge potential trade deal with Asia. Clinton's new stance is not just a reversal, it's a break with the Obama administration on an issue that's a very high importance to the White House. Here's what the former secretary of state is now saying about the 12-nation deal that she once called the gold standard of trade agreements.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm worried about currency manipulation not being part of the agreement. We have lost American jobs to the manipulations that countries, particularly in Asia, have engaged in. As of today, I am not in favor of what I have learned about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: It did not take long for her democratic rivals to pounce. Here's Martin O'Malley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wow, that's a reversal. I was against the Transpacific Partnership months and months ago. Secretary Clinton can justify her own reversal of opinion on this, but I can tell you that I didn't have one opinion eight months ago and switch that opinion on the eve of debates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Lincoln Chafee is with me. He is former governor of Rhode Island. He is running for president. He will be on that debate stage next week.

What do you make of what Hillary Clinton came out and said with that interview with PBS? Is this a flip-flop?

LINCOLN CHAFEE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I guess I'm the only Democratic candidate for president that's standing strong with President Obama on this it issue of TPP. And yes, it is a flip-flop. You talked about her statements in Australia. It's the gold standard back when she was secretary of state in favor of the TPP and now saying she cannot support it.

Yes, some of the currency manipulation issues have to be worked out, but it's a good bill, I believe. That's why I'm supporting it. Trade is going to occur. Let's have rules on the environment, which are the environment also in favor of it now and on labor standards. This is the right way to go forward in my view working with our neighboring countries in the pacific realm.

HARLOW: You are for it. Martin O'Malley is not for it. Bernie Sanders is not for it. Now Hillary Clinton isn't for it. Is this something you're going to go after her on stage during the debate given this significant change of heart on it?

CHAFEE: I think just as important as the merits of TPP are your character and can you stand strong on an issue and not flip-flop. I think that's more important and can you be trusted when you say one thing in Australia that is the gold standard. And then now because the unions are opposed to it or a democratic primary you change. I think you don't want to say different things to different constituencies. You have to be consistent, in my view.

HARLOW: You changed parties, sir. I mean, can people change their opinions?

CHAFEE: I have never changed on the issues. My party changed. There was no room for liberal Republicans saying anymore. We all know that. But I have always been pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-civil liberties. Fiscally responsible, I haven't changed. I have been fair traders. I voted when signed of that in the Senate. I voted for fair trade, the Caribbean Central American cuff that was called. I voted for cuff, so I'm very consistent.

HARLOW: Let's talk about the poll numbers here. I know it is early, but you're polling just below one percent. And this is the first time many Americans on a very, very large scale will hear from you standing side by side with the other candidates. Look, pundits say over and over you don't win elections in debates, but you can lose them. What's the number one issue, sir, that you are going to hammer home to the American voter that you believe will make you stand out from the rest?

CHAFEE: Well, there is five of us up there. And you talk about the polling numbers. Two of them are polling well and the three of us are down in the single digits all about the same. So the main thing for me is experience is a huge decision American people are going to make to elect the next president. Experience is very important. Character, I just talked about that, whether you are honest or whether you don't flip-flopping or consistent. And then thirdly, just as important as the other two is your vision for the future of the country. People want to know how to lead us into the future. So those are three points I hope to hammer home.

HARLOW: What's your vision? Are you going to talk about Wall Street reform? (INAUDIBLE) were likely going to hear about that from Bernie Sanders, income inequality. What are you going to go big on?

CHAFEE: The three most important things, I believe, facing the next president of the United States are, yes, you said income inequality, absolutely, growing a strong middle class that's the bedrock of any successful community. Secondly, climate change. I'm scared about what's happening to our planet, the climate change. And then third, peace in the world. You have to believe it's possible in the Middle East and North Africa. Put down the guns, put down the bombs. Let's find areas of commonality and build on that just as President Obama is doing with Iran. I'm in favor of the Iran deal. Let's keep building on better alliances and stop the fighting. So those three things - income inequality, climate change and peace.

[15:45:15] HARLOW: Quickly before I let you go, do you expect vice president Joe Biden to jump into this race?

CHAFEE: No, I don't. I expect him to get in at some point, but not before the debates. Some are saying this is going to be left turn for him. But I don't think he will be there in Las Vegas.

HARLOW: Lincoln Chafee, thank you. I appreciate your time.

CHAFEE: Thank you for inviting me on your show.

HARLOW: As I said, he will be with us just next days from now with all of you in the first democratic debate Tuesday night, October 13th, the CNN and Facebook democratic debate only right here.

Next, shocking new video from the front lines of Russia's new assault in Syria. Children rescued from the rubble, but forever impacted by the violence. Our own Arwa Damon joins me leave from the region.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:27] HARLOW: Today, Russia helped the Syrian regime launch a quote "wide scale offensive on rebel held areas in western Syria." Called one of their biggest yet. Missiles fired from land and sea, bombs raining down from the sky. I do want to warn you first what you are about to see is extraordinarily graphic. It is what is left behind when the smoke clears.

Arwa Damon reports on the reality of the front lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barely able to see through the thick dust, somehow members of the Syrian civil defense team also known as the white helmets, pull out a little girl.

Grab her one orders and turns around.

Miraculously the children appear unharmed. But then another strike. Frantic cries of God is great. Luckily, this time it seems everyone got out, but often not.

The white helmets, an independent medical rescue team, have been through this before. Too many times for most to count. But now it's not just Assad war planes and barrel bombs. Since Russia's bombing campaign began on September 30th, they say they have documented around 182 civilian deaths including two of their own which they say were caused by Russian strikes.

The Kremlin boasts of its accuracy, insisting civilians are not being targeted or killed. But those on the ground say it's a lie. The strikes are indiscriminate and often land on areas far from the front lines or rebel bases.

A child here treated for wounds. Two others appear shell shocked. Childhood they will never know. We cannot independently verify the activist claims of Russian

responsibility for these casualties, but perhaps what is most despicable is that it is happening at all. And has been happening for too long. No matter who to blame.

As the Russian-Syrian regime, Americans, NATO and other key players talk of war maneuvers and strategic gains, this is what that rhetoric looks like on the ground. These images are graphic and they are real.

A child covered in blood screaming in pain crying out for his mother.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Arwa Damon joins me now.

Incredibly difficult to watch, but so important to see the reality of what is happening on the ground on the front lines. You've also said those white helmets, the white helmets are reporting strikes beyond the front lines. What do we know officially?

DAMON: Well, according to what they are saying, they do believe along with the United States, Turkey, NATO and others that at least 90 percent of these Russian strikes are not targeting ISIS, meaning that they're going after various other rebel positions. But we're also hearing from the white helmets is that they are, they believe, deliberately trying to bomb certain civilian locations, trying to bomb field hospitals, trying to in the words of some teach these various areas that have been under rebel control a lesson even though in a number of them civilians on the ground tell us that they are quite a distance away from front lines or any sort of rebel headquarters.

And, Poppy, this kind of violence has been raging in Syria for way too long now. The population largely feeling abandoned by the international community now increasingly becoming pawns in what appears to be a broader game being played out between on the one hand Russia, the Assad regime, on the other side, the U.S. and various allies. And stuck in the middle are these civilians dying every single day. More and more being forced to flee. More and more becoming refugees.

HARLOW: Arwa Damon, thank you so much for that. Appreciate it as always.

Coming up next, the American hero who helped stop that train attack in France, you'll remember his face very well. Spencer Stone is now in the hospital after a stabbing incident in California. CNN has just obtained surveillance video shedding light on what may have happened. We'll bring you that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:59:06] HARLOW: An American hero who not only survived a terror attack but actually helped bring that terrorist has been stabbed repeatedly in California. And now, we have surveillance video of the stabbing outside a bar in Sacramento. You can see Spencer Stone in the white shirt. He's the tall man on

the left of your screen. And as he knocks someone to the ground, he is stabbed by a man to his left. Stone's shirt seen turning red before he runs off. If you will remember, Spencer Stone and other three Americans were hailed as heroes the world over after rushing in and hog tying a terrorist on that Paris-bound train in August. Police say they are currently looking for the offenders in that video.

That does it for me. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper begins right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Capitol chaos. A bombshell in the most important election besides the election. I'm Jake Tapper. This is "the LEAD."

Breaking news in our politics lead today, speaker stunner. The heir apparent Congressman Kevin McCarthy taking himself out of the race for house speaker. What kind of house of cards tale drama is going on behind closed doors there?