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The Democrats on Black Lives; Reviewing the Democratic Debate; Bernie Sanders Surges on Social Media; Foiled Stabbing Attack in Israel. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 14, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Last night. It didn't seem like there was much time spent on minority issues, frankly.

STAR PARKER, FOUNDER & PRES., CENTER FOR URBAN RENEWAL & EDUCATION: Well, we had five white, wealthy liberals trying to convince us to one-up each other that black lives matter so much to them that they're going to do more of the same, big government. They're going to have more policy to trap them in for communities. They're going to have more policies to trap them in failing schools. They're going to ensure policies that Planned Parenthood continues to traffic in their potential off spring's baby body parts and then they're going to let more criminals out on the street, while at the same time make sure that black lives won't be able to defend themselves because they're going to take away what's left of the Second Amendment rights. I don't think they were very convincing that black lives really matter. Democrats have been in control of black community and black lives for the last fifty years and look where we are.

COSTELLO: So, Patti, do you want to comment on that?

PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Wow. Well, I think the only thing I diss -- the only thing I agree on is that they were all white on the stage last night.

First of all, I think that the Black Lives Matter movement made a serious impact on last night's debate. All five candidates said black lives matter. Hillary Clinton went into this debate with real movement in the -- with minorities, with women, with African-American, with Hispanics. She met with the Black Lives Matter just before the debate, had a really good meeting with then, a tough meeting.

And as the CNN poll suggests that was just done a couple of days ago in places like South Carolina and Nevada where there's large minority populations, she's really doing very, very well. And then after the first four states on Super Tuesday, there is lots of states with large minorities and I think this is where Hillary's going to do extremely well.

COSTELLO: Well, let's go back to the all lives matter thing for just a moment because, Star, I want you to address this. I mean the question was posed, and I think actually Jim Webb said all lives matter, but all the rest of the candidates said black lives matter and here's why, but that was --that was easy, wasn't it? You just took the politically correct road and you were on your way to victory. PARKER: Well, because there's just not a focus on why the Blacks Lives

Matter campaign is significant to where we are in America today. Blacks are crying out for educational options, but they're in lawsuit against liberals like Hillary Clinton who insists that their kids must be trapped in failing schools. Black lives matter because their community have no economic stability because of liberals like Hillary Clinton who insist that business should be aggressively taxed and kept out of these poor communities. These liberals that were on stage last night would rather see business go abroad than to pay the wages that the market will bear. Now, black lives don't really matter to liberals, it's just that these blacks that are in these states that are voting for these aggressive liberals year after year after year are not given alternative answers to the problems that they're crying out to solve.

COSTELLO: Well, you actually could argue that Hillary Clinton changed her position on the trade agreement and she's no longer for it.

PARKER: She's changed her position on everything.

COSTELLO: But --

PARKER: Sounds good today.

COSTELLO: What you -- what you said -- what you said is pretty darn harsh, but, Patti, I would like you to respond to that.

DOYLE: Yes, thank you. You know, Hillary Clinton has a long working relationship with African-Americans when she worked on the children's defense fund. And when she was the most passionate last night, it was when she was talking about issues that matter to middle class voters, lower income voters, African-Americans and Hispanics, early childhood education, family leave, affordable colleges. These are the things that she's been working on for 40 plus years. So I think it's kind of unfair to say that, you know, she's not working for them.

COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. Patti Solis Doyle, Star Parker, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, heartbreak, hand grenades and Twitter jokes about a potential Biden in disguise. The weird, the wacky and the squirm inducing moments of the Democratic debate, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:33] COSTELLO: There were some, shall we say, unusual moments during the Democratic debate. Perhaps the most uncomfortable moment came at the expense of Lincoln Chafee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINCOLN CHAFEE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Glass-Steagall is my very first vote. I had just arrived. My dad had died in office. I was appointed to the office. It was my very first vote.

ANDERSON COOPER, MODERATOR: Are you saying -- are you saying you didn't know what you were voting for?

CHAFEE: I just arrived to the Senate. I think we get some takeovers and that was one -- it was my very first vote and it was 95 -- 99-5 (ph). It was the -- the (INAUDIBLE).

COOPER: But with all due respect though --

CHAFEE: But let me just say --

COOPER: Sir, what does that say about you that you're casting a vote for something you weren't really sure about?

CHAFEE: I think you're being a little rough. I just arrived at the United States Senate. I had been mayor of my city. My dad had died. I'd been appointed by the governor. It was the first vote and it was 90-5 because it was a conference report (ph).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I guess, in the end, it didn't matter. But, in my mind, that exchange ended any hope Chafee had of appearing in the next Democratic debate.

With me now, Larry Sabato, the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, and, Jason Johnson, professor of political science at Hiram University.

Welcome to you both.

Jason, am I wrong?

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, HIRAM COLLEGE: Good morning, Carol.

I don't think Lincoln Chafee had much of a chance to begin with. And I think Anderson did a good job of asking him some very direct questions. Are you a Republican? Are you a Democrat? Are you an independent? Are you a socialist? This, that and the other. I don't think Lincoln Chafee did a very good job presenting himself as presidential or personable. He kept saying, I'm granite, like a rock. Well, yes, he was that stiff, but I don't think he really presented himself as somebody who's capable of being on the stage with the other candidates.

[09:40:04] COSTELLO: Ouch.

So, Larry, we were all looking for that Carly Fiorina moment and many analysts thought that moment would come from Jim Webb, but this stood out to me. When Jim Webb was asked, which enemy are you most proud to have, he responded this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM WEBB (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd have to say the enemy soldier that threw the grenade that wounded me, but he's not around right now to talk to. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Larry?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CTR. FOR POLITICS, UNIV. OF VIRGINIA: Well, it was awkward. But, you know, Jim Webb is a genuine war hero. He has the metals and the citations to prove it. You know, at this point, Carol, I -- first of all, I know Jim Webb, I like Jim Webb and I know Linc Chafee and like Linc Chafee. And criticizing either of them at this point is the equivalent of cyber bullying and just won't do it because it's wrong.

COSTELLO: OK, so I'll just ask you a pointed question, will either of them appear in the next Democratic debate?

SABATO: Probably not. That's up to the debate sponsors, obviously. But I kind of think not. Maybe some would say it's putting them out of their misery, but I'll let others make that conclusion.

COSTELLO: I just want to touch on Martin O'Malley, because we haven't talked much about him this morning, Jason Johnson. Some people said that, you know, for the first hour of the debate he was kind of sleepy and kind of needed a Red Bull, but after that he perked up and made some good points.

JOHNSON: Well, I think he perked up. I think he made some good points. I think his closing statement was amazing. It was a sort of -- a time to kill Matthew McConaughey thing. He just like had the whole room paying attention to him and was very, very passionate. But -- but I think he -- he really missed an opportunity here. He could have been the Carly Fiorina of this debate. He went at Hillary Clinton a little bit but not far enough. He went at Bernie Sanders a little bit but not far enough. So he really presented himself, Carol, as someone who deserves to be on the stage, but he didn't prevent himself as someone who's really going to either be a viable VP candidate or can really make either of the two frontrunners sweat.

COSTELLO: Oh, OK.

So let's go back to weird moments. So out in the audience there was this -- because the audience was full of Democratic voters, supporters of each of the candidates, and we found this one guy who looked like Santa Claus. There he is. He was sitting there and he actually had his t-shirt stuffed to make him appear more Santa like. There were a lot of tweets about this mysterious hippie Santa, as in who is he. This tweet from Trayvon Free (ph), "nice try Joe Biden." So some people thought it was Joe Biden disguised. Does anyone know who this guy is, Jason?

JOHNSON: I'm convinced it actually is Joe Biden. He slipped out of D.C. on like, you know, an airline that we didn't know about. He came and he just wanted to see the competition. And then kind of slinked out when he realized that Hillary Clinton actually looked halfway decent on the stage. But I was sort of impressed. One of the best things about social media with these debates now is, whenever the debate itself is boring, there's always something entertaining online to see people talking about.

COSTELLO: That's absolutely true. I want to end on a serious note, Larry. So, give us your takeaways of this debate, this first Democratic debate.

SABATO: Oh, I pretty much agree with the conventional wisdom at this point. I think it last night, that Hillary Clinton did very, very well. It's exactly what she needed. She's had a very difficult six months. So it was a good, solid beginning for her. It makes you wonder why she's resistant to having more debates.

JOHNSON: Right.

COSTELLO: Exactly. Well, maybe that will change. Who knows? Jason Johnson, Larry Sabato, thanks to both of you.

SABATO: Thanks.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, is going left the right move for Democrats? Hear what voters have to say about last night's debate, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:11] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: All right. We do have breaking news to share with you right now. I want to take you to Israel, where violence continues to escalate. Israeli police say there was a foiled stabbing attempt at the Damascus Gate plaza. You see a reporter there but you see the chaos beside him.

The significance of this Damascus Gate is this attacker was supposedly trying to stab a security guard who was escorting a visitor to the Old City of Jerusalem. And inside the Damascus Gate, the holiest of shrines to four religions lie. In fact, you know, it contains the site where Jesus was crucified and where he died and was resurrected. So this of utmost concern for Israel. Israel is trying to grasp how to deal with this violence. It increased security, it shut off certain sites. We're trying to get our Erin McLaughlin up; she's getting more information for us, and of course when we do, we'll take you back to Jerusalem.

In other news this morning, let's talk about that debate. Because Democratic socialism stole the show during last night's Democratic debate, at least online. Bernie Sanders surged on Google, Facebook and Twitter. Although he did not surge on Donald Trump's tweetfest. Donald tweeted, :Sorry there is no star on the stage tonight."

But Sanders' alleged lack of star power actually bypassed Trump's mentions on Google and, to think, he did that by preaching Bernie's Socialist Bible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What Democratic Socialism is about is saying that it is immoral and wrong that the top one-tenth of 1 percent in this country own almost 90 percent, own almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. That when you look around the world, you see every other major country providing health care to all people as a right except the United States.

[09:50:07] And I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Perhaps Sanders' words resonate because Democrats have grown much more liberal over time. According to Pew, 41 percent of Democrats today describe themselves as liberal. Just 15 years ago, 27 percent described themselves as liberal. Most said they were moderate.

With me now to talk about this, Chris Kofinis and Marc Lamont Hill. Welcome to both of you.

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be here.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Morning.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you. Chris, I know Sanders needed to prove to voters he's mainstream, but maybe mainstream doesn't win a Democratic primary these days.

KOFINIS: Well, you know, it's kind of a balancing act. I think what you saw in the debate last night, you know, and I'm here in Des Moines and I did a focus group. You know, it was really interesting. Message-wise, you know, Senator Sanders clearly tapped a chord. He was clearly winning over the group. I think the challenge, though, for Senator Sanders is there's still a wall about electability and whether he can win.

So as much as I think Democrats, you know, are attracted to his message, they still want to win the election. And that's why I think you saw Secretary Clinton kind of, you know, communicate this pragmatic progressive, someone who's progressive but also can win the election and get things done. It was a very kind of different --

COSTELLO: It is. And I'm glad you brought that up, because we have Hillary Clinton's comment. And I want you to comment on that, Marc. So let's play how Hillary Clinton described her politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm a progressive, but I'm a progressive who likes to get things done. And I know how to find common ground, and I know how to stand my ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: And, of course, as you know, Marc, Bernie Sanders was talking about Denmark and Hillary Clinton slammed -- not slammed Denmark, she said she loved Denmark, but we're the United States. Go ahead, Marc.

HILL: I mean, she's playing to people's insecurities and their fears. And people often vote their fears rather than their dreams. Bernie Sanders has a vision of the world that resonates with most people. It's a populist vision. He's not a radical Leninist, he's not a person trying to impose a radical or despotic dictatorship.

He's a Democratic Socialist; that's a fancy way of saying he's a real liberal. He wants companies to be accountable; he wants governments to be accountable. And he wants everyday working people to be OK. But the problem is because he's used that label, Democratic Socialist, Hillary Clinton knows that she can play to the cheap seats and she can play to people's insecurities and say hey, wait a minute. Bernie wants to make us another country. Bernie wants us to be something other than what Americans are, which is unfettered free-market fundamentalists. That's the problem here.

Americans want working people to have a chance. Americans do think it's unfair that CEOs make so much more, sometimes thousands and tens of thousands more than their workers. But for some reason, that word socialism is a trigger for people, and Hillary is wisely playing on it from a political perspective.

COSTELLO: For some reason, Chris? I can think of many reasons.

HILL: Like what?

KOFINIS: I think Senator Sanders did a pretty good job of kind of beating that back. I think the one -- I think the one fundamental tweak I would have made I think based on what I saw would have had more of an impact is, you know, Republicans have used this label of socialist against Democrats for decades. I mean, FDR was accused of being a Socialist, JFK, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton, every Democrat who proposes how to address the needs and concerns of working and middle-class families is labeled with that.

This is not about, I think, labels whether you're a Socialist or not. This is about whether you're going to solve problems that are endemic and frustrating to the country. And I can tell you especially in the Democratic Party, there are working and middle-class families that are incredibly frustrated with what they see as an enduring set of issues and problems that don't get better. So I think the reason why the message does well is because of that.

HILL: Right. That's my point.

COSTELLO: No, no, and just to address your point, Marc, and I understand where you're coming from, but I do believe that Americans embrace capitalism, and many of them think that's what defines our country, and they're really not interested in becoming a socialist country. So in that sense --

HILL: Right, but --

COSTELLO: Uh-huh?

HILL: But just to be clear, Bernie Sanders isn't suggesting that we dismantle American capitalism and become a socialist country. I think part of the problem is that American voters often aren't fully educated on what Democratic Socialism is. This is not -- he's not trying to become Cuba or other nations. And I'm not saying those nations are bad. I'm just saying that's not what Bernie Sanders is suggesting. That's why the term Democratic Socialism has to be understood as being vastly different than other forms of socialism.

KOFINIS: Carol --

COSTELLO: OK, I've got to leave it there. I got to go back to Israel at this moment. Thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

So let's go back to Israel. Erin McLaughlin is there. And as a I told you, there's been a foiled stabbing attempt at the Damascus Gate plaza. Tell us more, Erin.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol, we're just getting this information in from Israeli police.

[09:55:03] They say they saw a young man sitting next to the Damascus Gate entrance. They said he was wearing combat fatigues. They said that he seemed nervous and so they approached him. Everyone here is on edge. They said that he pulled out a knife after they approached him and tried to attack them. Police fired at the stabber. And then the attacker then turned and tried to attack another group of police. They alerted to the situation, having heard the initial police screaming out. They responded by firing at this attacker, alleged attacker, shooting him and killing him. It is the fourth stabbing near the Damascus Gate entrance in the past week. People here on edge. The wave of violence currently gripping this area continues. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Erin McLaughlin reporting live for us. The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)