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Bomb Threat in Germany; Terror Investigation. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 17, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:30]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Breaking news here on CNN, as we're watching and waiting, of course, in the wake of those Paris terror attacks on Friday, now new word from Hannover, Germany, ahead of this match between Germany and the Netherlands that the stadium there has been evacuated. And let me precise. This is what we're hearing from the police chief there in Germany, saying -- quote -- "We had concrete evidence that someone wanted to set off an explosive device inside the stadium."

Concrete evidence. Let's go with that right now.

I have Juliette Kayyem joining me, national security analyst, former Homeland Security official, and also Rachel Nichols, our CNN Sports anchor.

So, Rachel, let me just begin with you, because what's also significant at the same time is supposed to be a soccer match in London, Paris vs. London. But, first, what more do we know about what is happening in Germany?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Germany, they have evacuated all the patrons. They have moved the German soccer team to safety. They were actually on a bus en route to the stadium.

One of the large newspapers in that area is reporting that there's actually an emergency vehicle, an ambulance that in fact was actually rigged up with explosives to bomb the stadium.

BALDWIN: Am ambulance, or an emergency vehicle?

NICHOLS: An emergency vehicle disguised as an ambulance that was rigged up instead to bomb the stadium.

BALDWIN: Sure.

NICHOLS: We at CNN will report that out and see if we can vet that ourselves, but that's what the local large newspaper is reporting. Very scary over there.

And in the shadow of that, we have what's going on in England and France, which is that, in England right now, they are having at Wembley Stadium a match between England and France. This is a friendly. And you see the French colors over Wembley Stadium, something we'd never expect in different times, but this is England's way of standing in solidarity.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Here we go, live pictures. This is what you were just describing.

NICHOLS: This is what you're seeing. It's an amazing sight. Prince William is actually coming to the match tonight. That is certainly a dangerous thing in these times.

However, there's unprecedented security. Brooke, I don't know if we have ever seen security like we're going to see in this building tonight. You have of course heavily armed police. You have 5,000 British troops who will be surrounding the area.

You also have the SAS, the hard-core, most elite portion of the British army. They are going to be among the crowd. And they have orders to shoot to kill if an event like what happened in Paris a few days ago breaks out in the stadium tonight.

So they are going full force. But they also want to make sure that they show solidarity with the people of France. You will hear tonight the British anthem. You will hear the French anthem. There will be a moment of silence. You will see the French flag raised in Wembley Stadium on one of the end zones and you will see the team also make a gesture in solidarity with their French counterparts.

I just want to get into why they are doing this. In these times, we see in country after country -- and we have certainly seen it here after September 11 and after the Boston Marathon bombings -- the way countries use sports to move forward, to take that first tentative step forward.

It's the only place you can have 90,000 people gather in one place and shout and scream and get it all out and have the French national team with France across their chests.

BALDWIN: Sure, sports an amazing way to show solidarity. But also with regard to security, we know why, given obviously what happened Friday in Paris at that soccer match just south of the city, and now case in point what's happening in Germany.

Juliette Kayyem, let me bring you in. And just to be crystal-clear, I know the German newspaper is reporting what they are about explosives potentially in an emergency vehicle. We don't have that yet. But, again, what we do have -- and this is a quote from the police chief, Juliette. "We had concrete evidence that someone wanted to set off an explosive device inside that stadium."

The fact that we're hearing that so quickly, Juliette, react to that and also tell me what is happening on the ground right now in Hannover, Germany. JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: OK. So that's a very specific statement, because you have to understand that closing an entire game is your least favored option from a public safety perspective. Right?

It is complicated. It terrifies everyone. So they took this very seriously. It was more than someone on the Internet or Facebook saying, I'm going to do this.

I do take this very seriously, if only because I'm looking at what the response looks like. We will reserve judgment on the ambulance because that does change the dynamic of what in fact this was. We will wait for CNN to report that out and see where that's coming from.

[15:05:08]

But I will say, given what happened in Paris, that these large events or mega-events are clearly where ISIS is heading. They are soft targets, and they are never going to be perfectly hardened, because for someone like me who has dealt with sports security issues my entire career, the challenge for stadium security or sports security is you need to have flow. That's why people are there, right, just what you guys were describing. It's fun. It's nationalistic.

People want to come in. They want to go out. They want to drink. And so you're always going to be -- it's always going to be difficult to put a sort of perfectly secure security apparatus over that . And that's why we have what is called in sports security layered security, so that there's a video camera. There's the undercover cops. There's the uniformed cops.

There's the pat-downs. In some places, you will have the metal detectors. There's prohibitions on bags or bringing in things that might be able to carry explosives. So all of those are pieces of trying to limit the risk at these big stadiums. But this is at least real in the sense that it was enough to get the Germans to respond in the least -- in the most drastic way imaginable for a big event like this.

We know that people's barometer is raised now. People are very nervous.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Right. We know that the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, was to attend that match there in Germany.

Let me just be clear here. Again, two major breaking news threads. Ladies, thank you. Stand by.

One, the fact that this soccer stadium in Germany has been evacuated because of this threat of serious plans for explosions, one. Two, this news that we're about to get again from Evan Perez, our justice correspondent, and we will also bring in Paul Cruickshank, our terrorism analyst, on the news of a cell phone that has now been found. Evan, let me have you begin with where was the cell phone found, what

will it tell investigators?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, the investigators recovered the cell phone at one of the scenes. They believe it belongs to one of the attackers.

Now, as you noted, this could possibly be a big break to help unravel the plot and who is suspected, this effective network behind it. Now, the phone contained a message. It was sent some time before the attacks began and it said something to the effect of, OK, we're ready.

We don't know who sent the message or who received it. But if confirmed, the cell phone really could provide a big clue into how the terrorists synchronized their attacks. We know it was very synchronized and it was orchestrated. And investigators are trying to exploit the data from the phone to try to determine who else the attackers were in contact with.

This information doesn't quiet some of the concerns that we have talked about here on your show among U.S. and European officials that terrorists are using encryption technology to try to hide what they are doing. And investigators have had a really difficult time finding other electronic traces that these attackers left behind. So, we will see what this new clue provides.

BALDWIN: Evan, thank you.

Paul Cruickshank, do I have you with me?

There we go.

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Hey, Brooke, I'm here, yes.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about, what is most significant, in your opinion, about the discovery of the cell phone?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it points to sort of organization, an attempt to try and synchronize what was going to go down, Brooke.

And every little piece of evidence is very important, clearly, to investigators. And it just helps them piece together how this thing was planned.

BALDWIN: You know, everything that we're reading possibly on one of these attackers, a fake passport, one of them faked his own death in Syria. Is it possible that this was something to throw investigators off the path, or do you think this legitimately was left by someone who perhaps blew himself up?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, I will tell you what we do know about this.

And that's that authorities think that this was probably planned in Syria, probably planned by the senior ISIS leadership, subcontracted out potentially to senior French and Belgium operatives on the ground in Syria who wanted to launch an attack against Paris, who then recruited and corralled a group of younger recruits who were on the ground in Syria to return to Europe and to get back into France and to launch an attack.

[15:10:00]

And the sort of names they are looking at in terms of a suspected mastermind, one of them is Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who is a Belgian Moroccan from this Molenbeek district of Brussels who played a large role, a coordinating role, ringleader role in that major plot which was thwarted in Belgium in January. He was also friends with Abdeslam, Salah Abdeslam, the guy still on the run.

So there was sort of this circumstantial evidence because of that friendship that they may be tied together in this attack. Also learning today that on the ISIS claim of responsibility for the Paris attacks, Brooke, according to a source briefed by investigators, there's the voice of a known senior French ISIS operative, Fabien Clain, who has a long track record of terrorism.

And European counterterrorism officials tell me that they suspect that had he also had a significant role planning that attack on the passenger train, the fast-speed passenger train in August where the Americans saved the day, and also a plot by ISIS to launch an attack against churches.

So they are sort of putting all this together. They're looking at who were the brains behind the operation in Syria. But it's very early stages still in the investigation clearly, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Paul Cruickshank, thank you so much. Don't go too far there in Paris.

We are also getting word here, as we, know investigators are trying to track down a lot of people in the wake of what happened, the horror in Paris from Friday night. We're now learning they are looking for a second fugitive, a second fugitive connected to what happened in Paris. That's number one.

And, number two, we're watching very closely what's happening here as this German soccer stadium has now been evacuated, as we're hearing from the police chief there that were serious plans for explosions. How did they know that as they are evacuating a match that the German chancellor was going to attend? We're trying to get some answers here as we're covering this around the world for you. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:17]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN's special live coverage here. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Just to get you up to speed here, we're watching a developing situation out of Hannover, Germany, of course, in the wake of the horrendous attacks on Friday night in Paris, everyone on high alert, and particularly when it comes to security and soft targets like a soccer match.

Germany is supposed to take on the Netherlands. In fact, we know that the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, was to attend this soccer match. And now we know they are evacuating the stadium because, according to the police chief in this part of Germany, we have concrete evidence that someone wanted to set off an explosive device inside of the stadium, an explosive device inside the stadium. We're working on getting more information on that. We will pass it to you as soon as we can here on CNN.

That's happening in Germany. Meantime, more breaking news of a possible second fugitive tied to the Paris attacks, this apparent new hunt for a ninth suspect coming to us from a source close to the investigation.

Let me just be crystal-clear at this point in time. We cannot confirm the identity of the fugitive, but we are learning more about Salah Abdeslam, the Belgium-born French national considered dangerous, still at large four days after the deadly and coordinated attacks in Paris.

Today, in the city's 18th District, heavily armed police zeroed in on a suspicious car, black Renault Clio with Belgium plates. French media outlets say Abdeslam rented that vehicle. We now know he also rented out a budget hotel apartment room a couple of days before the attacks on Friday. CNN cannot independently confirm, but you can see this is video here.

This is from the French magazine "Le Point." Among this, you see pizza boxes and here cigarette butts and syringes in this room that apparently, according to this source, these terrorists stayed in. Bomb specialists telling CNN if they did indeed have syringes in their room, this may have been used for the making of the explosives in the attackers' suicide vests.

I have Drew Griffin standing by. He's our CNN senior investigative correspondent live now in Brussels in Belgium.

Let's begin with this other fugitive, Drew. What more do we know?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you that all across Europe, it seems, there's a lot of tension and a lot of raids going on and a lot of police acting on any tip they can because, as the federal prosecutor here in Belgium told us today, listen, this is not over until these people are caught.

He was speaking then of just the one, Salah Abdeslam, but now we now know there potentially are two. We witnessed a raid that took place a couple of hours ago. It turned out to be a false alarm. But they are really ratcheting up what they can do to try to reel in these now two terrorist suspects, because this is just -- the Paris attack is not over until these two are caught and brought to justice. The danger is still out there.

BALDWIN: Drew Griffin, thank you very much for that.

Let me bring in Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, counterterrorism expert and senior fellow for the Foundation of Defense of Democracies.

And let me just begin with on this news, Daveed, of this second possible fugitive, thus far, a lot of these people, young people, these young attackers have eluded intelligence with their encrypted communications. How will authorities find this person?

[15:20:00]

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: That's an excellent question.

For the first thing, the fact that we didn't know that there's a possible ninth suspect until today, and they are still trying to firm up the identity, it may for authorities be firm at this point, but obviously the media has yet to really verify.

It's just an indication of how little we still know about the plot. Generally, when you have a plot that goes down, you want to get the computers that the individuals used, their cell phones, and do as much exploitation of all that hardware as you possibly can.

And this shows that things are still breaking. It shows just how big the plot was that was ended up going right under authorities' nose and being executed in Europe without surveillance or authorities being able to disrupt it.

BALDWIN: Daveed, I'm going to ask you to stand by, as we are in the midst of breaking news. This is what happens. Stand by.

I want to bring in a reporter in Germany, Alexander Oetker, a reporter with NTV, outside the stadium there that's been evacuated.

Alexander, Tell me what you know.

ALEXANDER OETKER, NTV REPORTER: Yes, we see an empty stadium.

The match, Germany and Netherlands, was annulled. And police director from Hannover told us that there was a device intended to be detonated inside the stadium. Now, we can watch pictures as the stadium is completely evacuated.

There's police around, a lot of police, also experts for explosives and everything which are working. And, yes, what we know now, that there was a threat for the city and the stadium. That was what the police chief of this city told us.

And, yes, there was a device intended to be detonated inside the stadium. And now we hear that there's also a device found in the train station here in Hannover just a few minutes ago. Also, there was an evacuation is ongoing now. There's a lot of police moving around in Hannover. But now, for this moment in the stadium, the situation is safe.

There's no danger because there are no soccer fans. They're all evacuated. There were maybe 1,000 inside the stadium. And maybe 5,000, 10,000 outside waiting for the security checks. And police said to them, go home. There was no panic at all.

It was quite -- people were sad that the game was canceled. But, yes, we wait for more information from the interior minister of Germany, who plans a press conference in just some minutes to tell us more, what the device was exactly.

BALDWIN: OK. Alexander, stay with me. I have a couple of questions. Let me follow up.

So we don't know the specifics, I'm assuming, until the news conference on what kind of device this was. Did you say the device was found in a train station or did I hear you incorrectly?

OETKER: OK. There was now another device found, another suspect device found, suspicious device found in a train station, but there was also a device who -- was intended to be detonated inside the stadium, which was found here close by the stadium.

We don't know exactly what it was confirmed by political sources, but we know from media sources, from two sources there was -- that it was maybe an ambulance with explosives inside. That is not confirmed by the police yet, but that's what we have heard from different media sources here in Germany.

BALDWIN: OK. So, two devices, one in a train, one perhaps in and around the stadium. How soon before the match was to start when police, investigators discovered this and evacuated the stadium?

OETKER: Can you -- sorry -- can you repeat the question? I didn't hear you at all.

BALDWIN: I will do it again. How close to the start of the match did authorities discover this device and evacuate everyone?

OETKER: OK.

The match should be started at quarter to 9:00. So I think it was around 7:00 when police cars telling the people that they should go home, that the match is canceled. And, yes, it was like, yes, two hours before there was this -- there was this reason also why there was not that much people inside the stadium. But there was no panic while evacuating the stadium. And this was the good luck tonight here in Hannover.

BALDWIN: I know that your German chancellor, Angela Merkel, was to attend the match. I presume since it happened so early, she wasn't there. Have you heard anything from her office?

OETKER: Yes, she wasn't there. She wasn't inside the stadium. Even the German national soccer team was not inside the stadium already.

[15:25:03]

They planned to come here. They were on the bus and returned immediately after they heard of the cancellation of the game. Also, that's the same for Angela Merkel. She was -- she wouldn't have come here. She was -- returned back home to Berlin, I suppose.

BALDWIN: Final question. So where are the teams now? Still somewhere in Hannover?

OETKER: Sorry?

BALDWIN: Where...

OETKER: The soccer teams? I think, yes, the German soccer team is still in Hannover. I don't know about the Dutch team, if they were already in the stadium and needed to be also evacuated. I have no information on that.

BALDWIN: All right, NTV reporter Alexander Oetker, thank you so much just outside of that soccer stadium in Hannover, Germany. Thank you very much.

So, new from him, this is according to NTV and his sources, not just one device, but two devices with presumably nefarious intent there in Germany, soft target, thousands and thousands of fans, including the German chancellor, to attend that match this evening there thwarted. Investigators are on it.

Stay with me, a lot of breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)