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Suicide Vest Found; Trump Wants Surveillance. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 23, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:15] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Stand by.

Hello there, I'm Brooke Baldwin, live here in beautiful Paris, France, at the Place de la Republique. It is 8:00 here local in the evening. And you're watching CNN's special coverage of the terror attacks that still more than a week later most definitely have the city on edge. Heavy is the word I keep hearing in wondering the city. I've been here a little over 24 hours. It is a heavier atmosphere. It is still the city of light and love, but it feels heavy.

Breaking moments go, we learned an area in a Paris suburb of Montrouge that has been sealed off as a bomb team checks out what appears to be a suicide vest. It was found we're told in a trash can. It is being removed and undergoing analysis to see if it actually does contain explosives. The bomb disposal team there is on site.

This news just coming into us today as France has launched new attacks against ISIS targets in both Syria and Iraq from the newly deployed Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier. France is stepping up its mission against the terror group after it claimed responsibility for the coordinated attacks here in this city November 13th that left 130 people dead and so many others wounded.

As investigators are hunting for the fugitive suspect who survived the Paris attacks, they have now arrested 21 people during anti-terrorism raids in nearby Belgium. One person has been charged, but 15 others have been released. It is believed Salah Abdeslam made it out of Paris and into Belgium in the hours after his brother and six others targeted that soccer stadium. So many cafes here in Paris and that concert hall, the Bataclan, just a half a mile from where I'm standing here. This was ten days ago.

The British prime minister, David Cameron, joined the French President Francois Hollande today visiting the Bataclan, standing, as I did just yesterday, by the flowers and the candles. They laid flowers in memory of the 89 victims who lost their lives in a sold-out concert there two Friday nights ago.

The prime minister, Mr. Cameron, is also expected to make the case this Thursday for his nation now to join the coalition effort in bombing ISIS in Syria. So that is what we know at this hour.

Big picture, let's go straight to my colleague, CNN's senior international correspondent Ivan Watson, who is here in Paris as well. And, Ivan, let's begin specifically with this item that appears to be

resembling a suicide vest in a suburb here of Paris. Tell me what's happening. What do you know?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, Brooke, this is coming from French police confirming to CNN that there's a suspect item that some fear could be a bomb belt, a suicide vest in a garbage can in this suburb directly to the south of Paris. A bomb disposal team brought in and they're investigating it. We'll update as soon as we find out more.

We do know that one of the suspects in the November 13th terror attack, Salah Abdeslam, there were fears that he might have a bomb belt and he, of course, escaped the police dragnet. So, again, we'll bring you up to date.

Also kind of small picture, just to give you and our viewers a sense, you know, we're in the fifth (INAUDIBLE) of Paris. Cafes are still working. People are still coming back and forth from - from work. There's pedestrian traffic. People say it's a little bit less crowded than usual. The cafes not quite as busy as they might be. It's only a Monday evening here. But life is still kind of moving along.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ivan, thank you so much. Ivan Watson here in Paris.

Let's get to Belgium here because a lot of news has been made there in the last week or so. We know the terror alert level remains at the country's highest. One lawmaker calling the situation there, and I'm quoting, "very exceptional." As you see these heavily armed soldiers and police, they are out and about in the city streets, specifically in Brussels. We've just learned schools and the subway system there, they will remain shut down at least through Wednesday of this week. CNN's senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir is live for us in Brussels.

And I know, Nima, it's still in partial lockdown. Christmas tree on one side of the street and a Humvee on the other.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and that is - that is the reality that people are living here with in the Belgian capital. But slowly we have seen some life return to these streets. Some cafes reopening, although, of course, the shops, the subway still in a shutdown. Many have described to me as being unprecedented since the Second World War. There is definitely a sense of a capital city here under siege. And the prime minister says that until Monday this terror threat level will remain at its highest.

[14:05:05] Intelligence sources tell us that the broader concern that is driving all this, Brooke, yesterday we had raid after raid right here in the town center, consistent security sweeps. The concern that is driving all this is that as that net starts to close - close in potentially on some of those that were involved in that broader network that supported the Paris attacks, that the worry then becomes that most would be suicide bombers have no intention of being taken alive and that really is driving the raised terror threat levels here. It is that serious and imminent threat that authorities here keep speaking about, but it's also a concern about what desperate militants on the run might - might find themselves called to do, Brooke.

BALDWIN: A threat at the highest level. As we said, schools and the metro there closed at least through Wednesday. Nima Elbagir, thank you so much, in the Belgian capital of Brussels.

After all of the raids and arrests both here in Paris and in Brussels, the key surviving suspect still remains at large. Police have been on the hunt for this man, Salah Abdeslam. And now questions are being raised about whether he didn't go through with the coordinated plan and lay low before calling acquaintances in Belgium to get him out of France.

Let me bring in Jean-Marc Illouz. He is a media consultant and former senior media - senior correspondent both covering Middle East and Washington with France 2 Network News.

So wonderful to have you.

JEAN-MARC ILLOUZ, FORMER SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, FRANCE 2 NEWS NETWORK: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And thank you for having me in your beautiful city.

Beginning with what we now know France has done. We now know the aircraft carrier, Charles de Gaulle, has already begun striking and the week ahead for your president here, quite busy.

ILLOUZ: Well, you see the Charles de Gaulle had been scheduled to go to this area a long time ago. The - there's no difference in tactics. It's just that the - our strike force will now be closer to where the action is than our other planes in the gulf, you see. But bombing will not do it. You know, firing and forgetting never solves a symmetrical conflict like this one. So the moment is for President Hollande to try to get everybody on the bandwagon. He'll be going to Obama, to Merkel in Germany, to Putin in Russia, and also to Italy, plus the United Nations.

BALDWIN: All in one week.

ILLOUZ: All in one week. But, you see, people might have the same enemies, but not necessarily the same interest.

BALDWIN: Explain what you mean.

ILLOUZ: Well, for example, you see, American military were more interested in Iraq than in Syria. We're more concerned with Syria because France is in Europe, much closer to terrorism bases than the United States.

BALDWIN: I would say there was a very high concern from an American perspective in Syria as well.

ILLOUZ: It is. It is changing. But in terms of military presence, most of American troops, I think there were about 8,000 of them, were essentially in Iraq and so far the results have not been negative, of course, but not decisive. You see, ISIS had about 30,000 fighters. Perhaps they have lost 10,000. Will - they will not be able to renew that quickly. But that doesn't do the job.

BALDWIN: But what about Russia? We have talked so much about, of course, the U.S. relationship with Russia and any sort of - we read into handshakes and cheersing of champagne glasses when it comes to President Obama and Vladimir Putin. And now that we know, you know, President Hollande will not only be meeting with Mr. Putin, but we also see at the same time these pictures coming out of the Russian defense ministry releasing actual photos from missiles that the Russian pilots have actually written for Paris.

ILLOUZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: These are missiles that are striking targets in Syria striking ISIS. Your - your read on that?

ILLOUZ: Well, you see, I'm very distrustful that this is excellent propaganda.

BALDWIN: I can understand why. I'm being facetious.

ILLOUZ: Well, you know, it's - it's incredible. It's propaganda, you see. Intelligence from the ground has repeatedly shown that the Russians were more interested in defending Assad than in fighting Daesh. Now they have changed a little. Why? Because the Russians are worried about having terrorism in their own cities, you see. But mainly their main enemy is not Daesh. Their project, their intention is just make sure that the Syrian state, not necessarily Assad, but the Syrian state is maintained, otherwise there can be no victory.

BALDWIN: Let me end by just asking you about this beautiful city. We are here for people who don't know, the Republique Place. This isn't necessarily a tourist spot. This is a place for Parisians and for - for the French. It has the - the French motto here on this beautiful statue and this is where people are coming tonight, lighting candles. We're about a half a mile away from where all the attacks were. The fact that a possible suicide vest was found in a suburb outside of this city tonight. The fact that people were fearful of a flash bang in a metro station this week and it turned out to be a pigeon. What's your read on Parisians right now?

[14:10:25] ILLOUZ: Well, you see what you have to realize is that the first victims are just being buried.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ILLOUZ: So there's a new wave of emotion.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ILLOUZ: And, of course, the situation -

BALDWIN: I feel it. ILLOUZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: I feel it.

ILLOUZ: And, of course, the situation is not normal. On my way over, in one of the adjacent streets, I counted more than 40 police vans, you see, which is not exactly what you would expect on a night like this.

BALDWIN: No.

ILLOUZ: And also we - we're in the heart of - I could call this a little bit the equivalent of Adams Morgan (ph). This the east -

BALDWIN: There you go, speaking in Washington terms.

ILLOUZ: That's right. This is the eastern part of the city where most of the young like to have a glass of beer -

BALDWIN: Yes.

ILLOUZ: To go and go to clubs and have fun, you see.

BALDWIN: Yes, which is precisely what they were doing two Friday nights ago.

ILLOUZ: So the - I - you could say that in the past terrorists would strike at Jews, at journalists, and an intellectual (ph). This time they want everybody -

BALDWIN: Yes.

ILLOUZ: Everybody and especially youth.

BALDWIN: And that's why it feels so different.

ILLOUZ: That's right.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much, Jean-Marc. I really appreciate your time tonight here.

ILLOUZ: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Just ahead here on CNN, as we're talking about terrorism, is al Qaeda stepping up attacks and terror plots to compete with ISIS. The growing rivalry against the west.

Also ahead in politics tonight, Donald Trump says he saw Muslims cheering in New Jersey on 9/11. Now there's no evidence of that, but that's what he said. Critics say he's flat out lying. Does the truth matter when it comes to Trump?

And an African-American protester kicked and pushed during a Donald Trump rally and Trump says maybe he deserved it. One of the protesters who was attending that event joins me live.

I'm Brooke Baldwin, live in Paris, and this is CNN.

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[14:16:21] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin live tonight in Paris.

Let's talk politics, though, and Donald Trump. Trump getting vocal on the campaign trail against specifically American Muslims and the new poll indicate the increased rhetoric may be working with Republican voters. Take a look at the numbers with me. This is the latest we have from "Washington Post"/ABC News poll. And you see right there, it shows Trump maintaining a healthy lead over his competitors. These strong numbers coming in as Trump escalated his call to have U.S. mosques monitored.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just to set it clear. I want surveillance of these people. I want surveillance if we have to and I don't care. I want - are you ready for this, folks? Are you ready? Oh, they're going to make it such a big deal. They're going to make it so big. He said something so politically incorrect. That's why we're going to hell because we're so politically incorrect. Such a big deal. Such a big deal. I want surveillance of certain mosques, OK, if that's OK. I want surveillance. And you know what, we've had it before and we'll have it again.

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BALDWIN: All right, let me bring in these two ladies, Scottie Hughes, she's the news director of The Tea Party Network. She's a Republican strategist and a Trump supporter. Also with me, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp, also a Republican.

Beginning with you, S.E., I know you both more or less agree, I believe, with the notion of surveilling certain mosques, but, S.E., I understand there's a - there's a but to your opinion here.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, I mean pre-2011 when we had programs in place that allowed for their surveillance of certain mosques, we were able to foil a number of home grown terror plots and it's important that there are no exceptions to the places that our law enforcement officials can go in if they - if they deem a credible threat or a tip. But I, you know, I would want to know more from Mr. Trump about which mosques he is thinking about, especially in light of comments that he's made where he would maybe have to register all Muslims. You know, Donald Trump talks a lot about this kind of stuff without a lot of specifics. And sometimes it sounds as though the policies he wants to enact are inefficient and unconstitutional. So if can - he has a - he has a heavy burden to prove that this is something he would do constitutionally and conservatively. Let's not forget, every time Trump talks about something like this, he talks about growing the size of government. You know, who are all of these people that are going to now monitor Muslims and mosques in this country and is that really what it means to be a conservative running for president?

BALDWIN: Right, let me - and, Scottie, I want to hear from you, but let me also just be precise in saying Trump is correct, you know, that there was some monitoring after 9/11. My pushback to you, Scottie, because I know you do agree, would be, well, then, you know, there's also this notion of, you know, mosques can sometimes serve as incubators. So can, you know, cafes and restaurants and butcher shops. I mean how do you draw the line?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, NEWS DIRECTOR, TEA PARTY NEWS NETWORK: Well, you draw the line as to what's public institutions and what's not. You know, I think it's not just mosques. I don't care about religious, educational or civic organizations. Wherever there's a gathering where we know that there's one or more people tied to terrorism, then we need to be able to monitor it. And since 2011, when CAIR and the ACLU got together and sued the FBI, there's been this major breach in communication between law enforcement and mosques. So that's why the focus is right now.

[14:20:02] Look at the Boston bomber. If there would have been monitoring of the mosque that he actually attended, we would have known that during worship services he was shouting out jihadist comments but yet there's no communication and so it's reasons like this that people have a very - are very scared of American mosques. So there is a difference between places that people gather and just a regular public place that people go frequent but not necessarily consistent like a worshipping institution like a mosque.

BALDWIN: Let me - let me move on to something else Trump said. He claims to remember seeing thousands upon thousands, his words, thousands upon thousands of American Muslims cheering in New Jersey as the Twin Towers came down on 9/11 back in 2001. Now, the mayor of Jersey City is calling Trump's comments, in a word, "shameful." His critic says he's making the whole story up. In fact, you know, "Washington Post" checked, it's false. I mean what evidence would he have of that, S.E.? Your response.

CUPP: Well, he said he'd seen it on television and I'd love to see that - the footage that he's referring to because I remember 9/11 viscerally and I remember walking home in Manhattan, you know, 40 blocks to get to my apartment on that day and passing white men running up to cab drivers with Arab drivers and yelling at them, "you did this," "this is your fault." That happened more than once that day. It was a horrific thing to witness. I don't remember any Muslims jumping for joy in New York or seeing footage of any Muslims jumping for joy in New Jersey. And if he's going to levee that charge, level that charge, I think he should produce some evidence of it because it just isn't what any of us remember.

HUGHES: But - there's two sides to every story and you just admitted yourself, S.E., that you remember Manhattan.

BALDWIN: I'm shaking my head. And, Scottie, I know you love some Donald Trump.

HUGHES: Right. Well, but there's two sides to every story. And, S.E., just go right now onto -- online. I know you can't believe everything on the Internet, but there are pictures, there are some videos that are being circulated around. There are people saying, that were in New Jersey, not Manhattan, that they saw this. But even the exact opposite. We didn't see this large outpouring by the Muslim community condoning 9/11. We didn't see the Million Muslim March against Islamic terrorist. That's what we - that's the problem with this. Silence speaks volumes right now in the Muslims in America. They're not - they're not -

BALDWIN: Scottie, the thousands -

HUGHES: Well, but they're - that's the thing, as you're sitting there, you saw the thousands across the way -

BALDWIN: Scottie, he said thousands and thousands of Muslims.

HUGHES: But you - the question is, there were - there were not necessarily anybody saying it was wrong that it happened. You didn't see the thousands standing up saying, we condone this. You saw silence. So maybe, in sort of to prevent these kinds of rumors in the future, why don't the Muslim community come out and as a united nation say, we condone what is going on with Islamic terrorists, not just put a spokesman from CAIR out there. Let's see it across the country. We're not seeing it.

CUPP: But this is why the Trump campaign is so ugly. It is all about division. No, it's not about religion (ph).

BALDWIN: There have been plenty. I have talked to many - many, many Muslims have come forward and absolutely commended that and other attacks.

S.E., final words.

CUPP: Of - of course. And this is why the Trump campaign is so ugly. It's all about division. What Muslim Americans were doing on 9/11 to tie that and impugn an entire community of people, to tie that to what happened in Paris or what could hypothetically happen if we start letting refugees in is so craven and ugly and it had nothing - it has nothing to do with the discussion of security concerns or the safety of our - our country.

HUGHES: It is not. It is not. Because they're not opening up communications. It has everything to do with it because they're not saying against it. They're not sitting there and saying - they're not condoning the Islamic terrorist attacks on a whole. They're just sitting there saying, you know what, America, you're hateful people, so you need to not monitor us. I mean it's really a false sense of impression on there.

BALDWIN: Wow, wow, ladies, let's leave it. Scottie Hughes and S.E. Cupp, thank you so much.

I want to pick back up on that some other time, but we have to talk about this Black Lives Matter protesters here at a Donald Trump event in Alabama just over this weekend. This individual got tackled. You see the video here. Tackled to the ground by Trump supporters. Donald Trump saying, quote, "maybe he should have been roughed up." Up next, we'll talk with another protester who attended that rally.

Also ahead here, a manhunt underway for the suspects in the siege on the hotel that left 20 people dead in West Africa. You will hear from the survivors, ahead.

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[14:28:42] BALDWIN: A Trump campaign rally in Birmingham, Alabama, turned violent when several attendees actually started punching and kicking a Black Lives Matter protester. The whole thing was caught on CNN cameras. Take a look for yourself.

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BALDWIN: All right, so the man in the middle of all of this, his name is Mercutio Southall Jr., and he had a ticket to attend this event. After he got in, tried to disrupt Trump's speech in protest. At least a half dozen people, all of whom were white, shoved, tackled him to the ground when he refused to leave. He and three other protesters were eventually escorted out by police. Now, Trump's campaign spokesman told CNN said that it, quote, "does not condone this behavior." But less than 24 hours after this happened, Donald Trump went on cable TV and said this.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): The man that was -- was -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: I don't know, you say roughed up. He was so obnoxious and so loud he was screaming. I had 10,000 people in the room yesterday, 10,000 people, and this guy started screaming by himself and they did - I don't know, rough up. He should have been - maybe he should have been roughed up because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing. I have a lot of fans and they were not happy about it. And this was a very obnoxious guy who was a troublemaker, who was looking to make trouble.

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