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Colorado Shooting Suspect Due in Court Monday; France Denied Entry to 1,000 Security Risks People; Inside the Mind of a Cop: Shoot or Don't Shoot?; Trump Denies Mocking Reporter's Disability. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired November 28, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM - the day after.

A shooting at a Colorado Planned Parenthood. Three are dead, including a police officer. Today, new details on the victims, and what could have sparked the standoff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: He started shooting. I was looking at his face. For five seconds we stared at each other. In that five-second period, the bullet holes went through my windshield.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Breaking now, France on edge, denying entry to hundreds of people deemed security risks.

Magnificent Mile protest. Thousands taking to the renowned shopping district to protest the shooting death of Laquan McDonald. Today we're asking, did the protests work?

And Carson in Jordan. The Republican presidential candidate making a surprise trip, going overseas to visit refugees. But will the trip silence critics of his grasp of foreign policy?

And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Poppy Harlow. Thank you so much for being here with us this Ssaturday.

We have brand-new details just emerging in that deadly rampage in Colorado Springs. We've just learned at least four survivors have been released from the hospital. At this point we believe five people are still being treated.

The suspect, Robert Dear, is due in court on Monday. He's being held without bail in Colorado. And I want to show you this, a first look at the suspect's residence. This tiny yellow shack located in the woods near Black Mountain, North Carolina. This is the place where Robert Dear allegedly lived before he traveled to Colorado and unleashed his gunfire.

Plus this, we're hearing from Colorado's top leader as he heaped praise on the first responders who helped save so many lives during that rampage. Here is Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), COLORADO: Any time you have a situation like that, you really do see that this country is filled with heroes and people that are willing to put their lives at risk to try to protect their neighbors. I drove down here this morning. It was cloudy, and there's a mist coming off the foothills. And that incredible beauty in this part of the state is renowned for can be something that either exaggerates your joy and joyous times or exaggerates your sorrow in very difficult times.

It really is remarkable that we live in a country with that kind of - those kinds of people ready to, at a moment's notice, put their lives on the line. Like everyone, I spent a lot of time last night trying to figure out and understand how these things can occur. And we're going to keep working on finding the answers.

But in the meantime, we're going to be 100 percent focused on supporting Colorado Springs, the first responders and the leadership team here, and make sure that we can give them every manner of support that we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And one of the three fallen victims was University of Colorado Officer Garrett Swasey. The 44-year-old father of two was well-loved in his community.

And our Sara Ganim joins us now. Sara, tell us what you have learned about Swasey.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, we learned that Officer Garrett Swasey was 10 miles away, working for another department, when he heard the call for an officer down, taking fire. He drove to his aid. Those we talked to today who knew him say that's who he was, he was selfless in everything he did, from being a husband and father, to his former career as an ice dancer, to his involvement in church. Everyone who knew him is in mourning today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): Officer Garrett Swasey was a loving father of two, a former championship ice skater and a leader in his church. He was also a devoted police officer, killed Friday in the line of duty when a man opened fire at a Planned Parenthood Clinic in Colorado Springs.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: The shooter is constantly shooting keeping these officers down.

GANIM: Forty four-year-old Swasey was an officer for the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs campus. He was on duty Friday when he heard the call of shots fired and rushed to the scene.

KURT AICHELLE, CO-PASTOR HOPE CHAPEL: I've known him for about 10 years. Throughout that entire time I've watched him faithfully serve others and place others before himself in nearly every situation.

GANIM: Kurt Aichelle, a pastor with Swasey at his church, was there when Swasey's wife had to tell their two young children what happened to their dad.

[16:05:02]

AICHELLE: The cries and the sobs of her children learning that their daddy was never returning is something that will probably be etched in my mind for the rest of my life.

GANIM: Swasey was born in Melrose, Massachusetts, a graduate of Melrose High School. The mayor there saying, "As a class of 1989 graduate, I remember him to be a kind and caring young man with many friends, dedicated to his skating career and excelling at all areas."

A six-year veteran of the police force, law enforcement was his second career, after retiring from figure skating. He competed in the 1995 national championships and won a junior national title in 1992 in Orlando.

CHRISTINE FOWLER BINDER, FORMER ICE SKATING PARTNER: Garrett is or was the most selfless person I knew. Always there as kind of my confidante, my brother. He put up with me.

GANIM: His skating partner, Christine Fowler Binder, talked to Swasey's mother on the phone.

BINDER: She just wanted me to say, to remind everyone that Garrett died in the line of duty, protecting everyone in our country, and that there's no time that he ever would not have done that.

GANIM: In the early 1990s, Swasey moved to Colorado Springs to train at the Olympic Trainin gCenter. Friends at the church where he led groups and played guitar say he defined himself through his faith.

SCOTT DANTENVILLE, CO-PASTOR: Here's a man who stands on principle, loves Christ, and obviously, you know, he might not be in alignment with the abortion industry, but he would be willing to go in and lay down his life for those people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Pam, there was a packed vigil today at a church in Colorado Springs honoring all three of the victims who died in that shooting. And today, all of the sporting events at the University of Colorado will have a moment of silence in honor of their fallen officer.

BROWN: Just thinking of his two little kids finding out that their dad won't come home. Horrific.

Sara Ganim, thank you so much.

BROWN: And we're also hearing from incredible survivors held hostage at Planned Parenthood for hours. One of them is a 22-year-old Knetanya Craion. She is pregnant. She went in with their boyfriend yesterday to Planned Parenthood to get an ultrasound.

I want to bring in Dan Simon in Colorado Springs. Dan, you spoke to this brave young women. I'm going to play some of that interview and talk with you afterwards.

She described in this interview the last moment she saw her boyfriend before gunfire erupted.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): When you saw the gunman outside, what did he look like?

KENTANYA CRAION, HELD HOSTAGE INSIDE COLORADO CLINIC: Like this was just a game to him.

SIMON: Did you immediately recognize those as gunshots?

CRAION: No, I didn't. It took someone to tell me to get down, that there's a gunshot. Even with then I didn't register because it felt so surreal. At that point when I had heard the gunshots, I was able to make out a picture of what was going on, because I saw the gunman, I saw him shooting. And once I realized that this is really happening, is when I flee the scene and went in the back room.

I ran down the hall, tried to open one door. It was locked. I opened another door. And there was two people there. One was a nurse and one was an actual patient. When I heard the second gunshots, you could clearly tell it was in the building, it was near, it was close. One of the ladies beside me started screaming. I had to tell her to remain calm. We actually had a gun bullet come through our wall, went through the other. You could smell the gunpowder.

It was frightening at that point. We all just wanted to get out. About I would say 30, 45 minutes later, a police officer had contacted one of us and he let us know that he's coming, they're coming to get us. He wanted to know what end of Planned Parenthood we were at in. He explained the procedures on how we would know it was him.

And then after that phone call, maybe 20, 15 minutes after that, you heard people walking in the hall. Then you heard the procedure. We opened the door and there was a S.W.A.T. team.

SIMON: I know this is a sensitive topic with your boyfriend. You haven't heard from him. What do you think? What do you think may have gone on, what happened?

CRAION: I'm trying to be positive. I don't know if the people that were injured have reached out to their families yet or if he just doesn't know my number. I'm just hoping everything's OK.

SIMON: Because your number may have been stored in his phone?

[16:10:02] CRAION: Exactly. I've called his phone when it was happening, I called him, there was no reply. At a certain point my sister called him, she heard someone pick up, they hung up twice. After that his phone has just been dead ever since.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Let's bring back Dan Simon in Colorado Springs. Dan, what more do we know about where her boyfriend could be? Are authorities helping her at this point?

SIMON: Well, Pamela, right now it's still very much a mystery. I've asked Ketanya to let us know if she hears anything. At this point we have not heard from her. We don't know that she called the hospital to see if maybe he was there, and she says they told her that he wasn't there. So obviously as more time goes on, the worse it looks. Hopefully there's some kind of explanation behind all of this. Obviously she's feeling very anxious at the moment.

BROWN: But I have to say, she showed incredible strength in this agonizing situation, just to see how calm she was talking to you. Our thoughts and prayers are with her.

Dan Simon, thank you so much.

And still to come right here on "CNN Newsroom," the Paris terror attacks. New arrests and new security concerns. Hundreds being denied entry at the country's border.

Plus Black Friday shutdown. Thousands of black Friday holiday shoppers on Chicago's Michigan Avenue, protesting the shooting death of Laquan Mcdonald, and demanding the mayor and police superintendent resign.

And this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This guy, I don't know what I said, I don't remember.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Donald Trump and the "New York Times" reporter. New fallout and new questions today, some now asking has he gone too far this time. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:00]

BROWN: Well, it looks calm right now but tensions continue to rise in the city of Chicago after the release of dash cam video showing a white police officer fatally shooting black teen Laquan Mcdonald 16 times. Yesterday, four people were arrested during protest that took over a popular shopping district on Black Friday. The demonstrators are demanding the resignation of top city officials as well as a federal investigation into the Chicago Police Department claiming there was a year long coverup. It took 400 days for police to release that dash cam video. And it only happened after a reporter filed a Freedom of Information request. The officer who shot McDonald has since been charged with first degree murder.

And joining me now to discuss Justin Glawe, a contributor for "The Daily Beast" based in Chicago, who has written extensively on this case and other killings by Chicago Police and you write Justine, that most of those killings were not as agregious as Mcdonald's but many exist in a state of evidentiary purgatory. For activists like Black Lives Matter, viritually all were wrong and unnecessary. For police, virtually all were right and required to uphold law and order The truth lies somewhere in between."

And you also add that your investigation found that autopsies and police statements didn't always add up. Tell us about that.

JUSTIN GLAWE, CONTRIBUTOR "THE DAILY BEAST": Right. Well, I think one of the things that is really important when considering these cases is the - you can't underestimate the important of independent death examinations. So when we look into these cases, we get the autopsy reports from Cook County Medical Examiner's office which are able to be released regardless of whether or not there is any investigation going on and that gives us kind of an eye into whether or not police - events contradict with, you know, the medical evidence that we get from autopsy reports.

BROWN: And you spent more than a year looking at these cases where an officer shot and killed someone. What did you find? Did you find that most of the time cops were in the wrong or not. I mean tell us about that.

GLAWE: Well, you know, I think - I came to the conclusion on many event that you know, the police were justified in the use of lethal force but again without having access to witnesses to the event or primary sources, like family members and things like that. It's really difficult and try to objectively determine whether or not these things were justified without having access to those people and then also on top of that - for some of the more controversial ones, the independent police review authority, they take a long time to finalize their investigations and make those findings publics and then only after those investigations are made public as we able to go in and access the case files through open record request. And that's where you really get some of the more detailed minutia of these cases

BROWN: And we want to point out that we did reach out to the Chicago Police Department for comment, we are still waiting to hear back. As someone who lives in Chicago, what do you think needs to be the first priority here? Is it policing the police or trying to reduce gun violence in a city that had more than 400 homicides last year? GLAWE: Well, surely both. Lorenzo Davis, who is a former CPD

commander and worked for IPRA before he was fired a few months back, he's kind of been a whistleblower in all of this. As someone who has worked for both the police department and as someone who's looked into officer-involved shootings and fatal shootings, he's called for, you know, more police accountability and changes within IPRA, specifically that there's a lot of people who work at IPRA who have strong ties to law enforcement, including the head administrator who is a former DEA agent, and obviously has lots of law enforcement contacts and sources within the city, and so Davis has said that there needs to be more people who are independent the law enforcement working for that agency in order to ensure that these things are investigated more independently.

BROWN: Interesting. Justin Glawe, appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective.

And coming up right here on "CNN Newsroom," the leaders of Turkey and Russia could come face-to-face, nearly a week after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane. Turkey's president said he wants to meet in Paris but how will Vladimir Putin respond.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:23:16]

BROWN: France is boosting security as world leaders begin to gather for the Paris Climate Conference. Since the deadly attacks two weeks ago, France has denied entry to nearly 1,000 people deemed to be security risks. And now nearly 15,000 officers are stationed along France's borders.

Our Alexandra Field is in Brussels, Belgium. Alexandra, in the wake of all this security, we're learning that the most wanted man in Europe, Salah Abdeslam, is said to have lounged publicly in a cafe in Brussels the day after the killings. How did this happen?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela, it sounds absolutely stunning when you put it that way, and even more stunning given the fact that Salah Abdeslam had already evaded authorities just hours before that, managed to travel in a car with two other men from France to Belgium despite being stopped by police.

At that point in the aftermath of these attacks, police still didn't know who they were looking for. So what we're learning now is that he was brought to Brussels where he was picked up by another man, Ali Ulkadi (ph), whose attorney says Ulkadi (ph) took Salah Abdeslam and drove him to a cafe.

On the way there, a pretty wild conversation, in which Abdeslam tells Ulkadi) about the fact that his brother Brahim had killed people in Paris and then blown himself up. Yet these two men proceed to a cafe with another man, according to the attorney. The attorney says his client's only crime was not going to police once he learned that Abdeslam was the subject of this international manhunt that now continues almost two weeks after these attacks, Pamela. BROWN: That's right. And he's not the only one they're looking for.

We're also hearing that Belgium is holding six people in connection with the attacks. What do we know about them, and are they connected to Abdeslam?

[16:25:00]

FIELD: Right, so you've got Oulkadi, who is the man who drove him once he reached Brussels. You've also got the two who drove him from Paris to Brussels, who have been arrested and taken into custody. For days and for weeks now, Pamela, we've seen not just in France but in Belgium where some of the attacks were planned, these raids carried out by police and members of the military to root out anyone who could have had some connected and any one who could have had a hand in planning them. So in total, the have arrested six people who they say have some connection and charged them with terrorism-related activities.

This all goes on with the backdrop of the heightened terror alert level here in Belgium and in Brussels, specifically. They were at the highest terror alert level last week. The terror alert level has now dropped from 4 to 3. But officials say the operations trying to find anyone connected with the attacks do continue. So people here are living with the very conscious thought that there is a high security alert even as they try to go about their normal lives, try to make some kind of return to normalcy. Pamela.

BROWN: Alexandra Field, on that note, stay safe. Thank you so much.

Turkey's president says he hopes to talk with Russian President Putin at the Paris Climate Conference. President Erdogan said he does not want the situation with Russia to escalate. But he stopped short of apologizing for this week's shoot down of a Russian war plane.

Erdogan is saying "we wouldn't have wished this to happen but but unfortunately it did." Russia and Turkey sharply disagree on whether the Russian plane was in Turkish airspace when it was shot down.

Today, Russia announcing it's enforcing economic restrictions against Turkey. And the Kremlin also said today that "fully mobilized to tackle what they're calling the threat from Turkey.

Russia insists its planes were bombing ISIS militants in that area. Turkey says the Russian jet violated its airspace and ignored 10 warnings. Let's bring in CNN global affairs analyst David Rohde. So David, Turkey seems like it's trying to play nice here, but meanwhile Russia is keeping a harsher tone. What do you make of all this?

DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's an alarming pattern. I'm impressed that President Erdogan, the Turkish leader was the first one to blink here. Neither side has blinked in the last few days. And the response from Russia is disappointing. To be fair to President Putin, you had two Russian service members killed, he can't ignore that, he has to pay tribute to his military, and it's a serious thing to lose these two lives. But you know, Erdogan is offering a meeting in Paris this week, he's asking publicly for an escalation, and the response today from Russia is this sort of fairly significant economic sanctions. It's not a step in the right direction for Moscow.

BROWN: And that is on top of pulling the visa waiver program with Turkey. How do you think Turkey will respond to this latest news that Russia is imposing these economic restrictions?

ROHDE: The visa restrictions are a real problem. The largest number of tourists to Turkey are Germans.

But Russia is the second largest group. It's a very important part of their economy. Three fifths of Turkey's national gas supplies come from Russia. So these are serious things that Moscow is talking about.

You might have and I hope you'll have Russia sort of toning down the rhetoric in the next few days, that would be helpful. But Erdogan himself has pressure. The problem with both these leaders is they are nationalists, they both come up saying I will make Turkey strong, I'll make Russia strong. It's not easy for Erdogan to back down and not

get anything in exchange from Russia.

BROWN: So given how much is at stake between these two countries, why do you think Turkey did what it did, assuming it knew this was a Russian warplane?

ROHDE: I think it's fair to say that there have been dozens of provocations by the Russian air force, not just in Turkey but primarily against NATO countries. We've seen this in Europe and many different places where they will, you know, come close to NATO airspace and sort of see the response.

So I think there's a very good chance that this Russian plane did violate Turkey's airspace. Turkey had complained of incidents like this before. And I think, you know, Turkey took a gamble in shooting down this plane. I think they've realized, you know, this is not - maybe more than they expected. They've made their point, and hopefully both sides will back down.

But, my sense, again, is I think, I don't know for sure, but it seems to me, given the pattern, that this plane did violate Turkey's airspace.

BROWN: I remember when Russia first started flying around there and Syria, there's a lot of talk, what's Turkey going to do. A lot of people said, Turkey wouldn't shoot down a Russian warplane, that just wouldn't be smart. It has happened, and we're seeing the fallout between these two countries.

David Rohde, thank you so much.

ROHDE: Thank you.

BROWN: Straight ahead, we return to Colorado and a community in mourning. The question on everyone's mind: why? We'll discuss, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:33:07] BROWN: And now for the very latest on that deadly shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs. The man accused of gunning down and killing a police officer and two other people is due to appear before a judge on Monday. Right now, 57-year-old Robert Dear is being held without bail.

The gunman held police at bay for six hours yesterday before surrendering. Five officers and four other people were also wounded. Five of the injured are still in the hospital in good condition.

Meantime, Colorado's governor has just ordered flags at his state to be flown half-staff. CNN has obtained photos of Robert Dear's residence. Take a look, a tiny yellow shack in Black Mountain, North Carolina. This is where he allegedly lived before he traveled to Colorado.

I want to bring in CNN legal analyst and criminal attorney Joey Jackson for more on this. And Jonathan is a CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI special agent and police officer.

Jonathan, in this case, police used these circuit cameras to keep track of the armed suspect inside the clinic before he surrendered. And it was amazing, listening to the scanner traffic as at one point the video went out and they no longer had eyes on him. How important was this technology in capturing him alive and keeping those hostages safe?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think this is absolutely important that we see how this worked and how beneficial it was for -- especially for this particular target, Planned Parenthood, which we know throughout the country has had threats against it. So I think they really forward thought their security here. And we can see that just by getting the people into a safe room, which they also thought out, that technology and that forward thinking is what saved all those people.

BROWN: And, Joey, our legal analyst here, we still don't know exactly how this started or the motive for the shooting. The suspect is due in court on Monday. But will his motive matter when it comes to charges or bail here?

[16:35:02] JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, good afternoon, Pamela. And, Jonathan, good afternoon to you.

You know, ultimately, what it's going to depend upon and count on is his intent. And, you know, there are murder charges here and it's just sickening, really, the whole series of events certainly is. But he's facing murder charges.

We also know based upon that, we know that Colorado has a death penalty. They haven't really used it at all in 40 years. Only one person has really been executed. They're not going to focus so much on motivation, although jurors really want to know. When you're pursuing a case, Pamela, doing an opening statement,

introducing a theory to the jury, they certainly want to know what was in the mind of a person, what caused them to do what they did. But it's not what we call as lawyers an element of the crime charged. So, you don't have to establish a motivation, you just have to establish that the action was engaged in. And that action was certainly criminal and he'll be held accountable as a result.

BROWN: A lot of people wondering what was in his mind and why he did what he did. Jonathan, terrorism by definition is the use of violence and fear in an effort to achieve a political goal. Again, we don't know a motive here. But what do you think was this shooting and act of terrorism?

GILLIAM: Well, I think it's going to come down to one or two things, either he just had some kind of vendetta possibly against somebody in there, or against Planned Parenthood. Here's the thing which I think Joey will agree with me on this. If he is charged with terrorism, if we find out that is his motive, then we can -- it will set a chain of events possibly that include federal charges and bring in the federal government into the investigation overall for this. That's what happens when terrorism becomes the subject of the investigation, the FBI which will probably be involved in this anyway, but it goes from state and they pass it on and try to bring these are federal charges as well.

BROWN: So, Joey, Jonathan, you agree, do you?

JACKSON: Well, here's what I agree with, the coordination among law enforcement was tremendous. You had the FBI on the scene providing tactical support to the local officials, you had ATF doing the same, you had the state authorities, you had the local authorities. I think the prosecutor in that jurisdiction wants the case because it hits home. It affects the community and affects them in ways that are horrific.

So, I think there's an interest in the local government certainly pursuing it. They have the tools, the resources, and the charges. But the federal government, there could be room for them as well.

I don't think, though, Pamela, there will be an argument jurisdictionally over really who take this. But could it elevate and ultimately become a federal case if there's a terrorism element? I would agree with Jonathan on that, potentially it could. But I think the local prosecutor has an interest on behalf of that community and everyone affected to keep it there and to see that justice takes place in this particular case.

BROWN: We'll see how it plays out. Joey Jackson, Jonathan Gilliam, thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Pam.

GILLIAM: You got it.

BROWN: And coming up, right after this break, it's a split second decision for law enforcement. Shoot or don't shoot, when you come face-to-face with a suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: If these were a real emergency, I would have died.

I didn't want to shoot him. Even when he had the gun on the table, I didn't believe he would shoot me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Next, CNN suits up and goes behind the badge. Don't miss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:58] BROWN: We saw it this week in Chicago, unrest over a police shooting of a black suspect. While each case is unique, one thing is clear. Since Ferguson, this issue has become a national concern.

In a new CNN Kaiser Foundation poll, 90 percent of African-Americans say they've been treated unfairly because of their race, compared to 17 percent of Hispanics and 3 percent of white people. And that's just in a span of the past 30 days.

In the same poll, 84 percent of African-Americans say anger over police treatment is a major reason for protests in several U.S. cities. So, what goes through the minds of police officers during those tense situations and what kind of training do they get and what makes them decide to shoot or not shoot?

CNN's Carol Costello went to training herself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's not always a right answer for when to shoot and when to hold your fire.

GILLIAM: You should eliminate all the variables that you can.

COSTELLO: It's a decision that law enforcement officers are asked to make every day on the job.

COSTELLO (on camera): Oh, that's heavy.

GILLIAM: How much would you say this weighs?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably 25.

COSTELLO: Twenty-five pounds, wow.

GILLIAM: Yes.

COSTELLO (voice-over): I'm being outfitted for a tactical training course where it's up to me to decide whether to use deadly force. I'm also wearing a monitor that's measuring my heart rate. GILLIAM: There's a lot of different weights that law enforcement are

caring. They're carrying physical weight and they're carrying mental weight, where they have to go into these different scenarios.

COSTELLO: Jonathan Gilliam, former FBI and Navy SEAL, is my partner.

GILLIAM: In order to go through the use of deadly force rules, you have to practice these types of things. And this is what law enforcement practice when they go through an academy and this is what they face when they're on the street.

KIRBY SCOTT, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: This first scenario is going to have is suicide by cop.

COSTELLO: Kirby Scott is a retired special agent for the FBI. He's my sergeant today.

SCOTT: Officer is responding, which is you, to a domestic call of an EDP person, emotionally disturbed person, who left his residences and after threatening to kill himself at his residence.

COSTELLO (on camera): My hands are already sweating. OK.

GILLIAM: And this is -- this is good. This is the stress that a cop is already feeling daily.

COSTELLO: OK. I'm ready.

GILLIAM: Do you see anything in his hands?

COSTELLO: Can we come in, Sean (ph)?

SEAN: No!

COSTELLO: No, he doesn't have anything in his hands.

GILLIAM: OK, go ahead and go in.

SEAN: Do not come in!

COSTELLO: Sean, we just want to -- we just want to help you out and -- and make your family feel more comfortable.

SEAN: There's nothing you can do! There's nothing you can do. My world is over. I'm done. I'm ready to die. I suggest you leave or we're all going to die.

COSTELLO: And why do you think your world is over?

SEAN: Why do you think my world is over?

COSTELLO: Uh-huh.

SEAN: You talked to my wife. What do you think?

GILLIAM: Why don't you show us your hands? Let's see your hands. SEAN: Who are you?

GILLIAM: I can see your hands in there, but can you just put us all at ease by putting your hands on the table.

SEAN: How is that?

GILLIAM: How about both of them?

SEAN: How about no.

GILLIAM: How about your put both your hands on the table for me.

SEAN: How about you leave.

GILLIAM: Put your other hand on the table for us.

SEAN: I'm telling you now if you don't leave I'm going to kill everyone in this room including myself.

GILLIAM: Sir, why don't you put your other hand on the table?

No, no. Put your other hand on the table.

SEAN: I'm telling you, it is time --

GILLIAM: He's got a gun.

SEAN: -- to leave.

[16:45:01] COSTELLO (voice-over): What would you do? Shoot or not shoot?

Sean is mentally ill, suicidal. His wife wants you to save him.

GILLIAM: There's a gun.

SEAN: Now.

GILLIAM: There's a gun. He's got a gun. Listen, place your hands on top of your head.

COSTELLO (on camera): Listen to my partner. Place your hands on top of your head. We only want to help you. That's all we want to do. We don't want anyone to get hurt today.

SEAN: There is no help!

COSTELLO: There is help Sean, I promise you.

SEAN: There is absolutely nothing you can do. But leave.

GILLIAM: Come on --

SEAN: Leave now.

COSTELLO: You don't want --

SEAN: Leave -- what's the problem? Why are you not responding to me?

GILLIAM: Carol, we got to get this guy --

SEAN: You want me to respond --

GILLIAM: Okay. Bam. You're dead.

COSTELLO (voice-over): If this were a real emergency, I'd have died.

(on camera): I didn't want to shoot him. Even when he had the gun on the table I didn't believe he would shoot me. Right? But he did.

GILLIAM: Right.

COSTELLO: So that was the -- because I'm not used to dealing in those situations.

GILLIAM: First off, he wasn't showing you his hands. That's a problem.

COSTELLO: Gave me a false sense of security because by then I had my own gun out when I saw his gun. And I thought, well, he's not going to shoot me because I have my gun out.

GILLIAM: Right.

COSTELLO: So as soon as he put the gun on the table, I could have shot him?

GILLIAM: Sure. Because action beats reaction all the time.

If he presents the threat to you then you have the right to use deadly force, not just to protect your life, but to protect your partner or anybody else because if he shoots you both he can then go out and be a deadly imminent danger to the public.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, the scenario that you just saw was designed by former police officer, FBI special agent and now CNN analyst, Jonathan Gilliam and he joins me again now.

We saw you in the video, Jonathan. I'm curious, are these exercises a good predictor of how a cop will perform in the field in an emergency, in a real life situation?

GILLIAM: Well, I don't know if they're a necessarily good predictor at first as the way Carol went through, because that was her first experience. She had no tactical experience. I actually changed my tactics so as not to lead her so she wouldn't be looking at me to lead her as to when to shoot or when not to shoot.

Now, after officers go through these over and over again, which we do these types of things in academies, law enforcement academies, they do develop a better sense of the use of force rules, and when they should shoot and when they shouldn't shoot. So, as they go on on the street, remember, we go through academies in law enforcement to learn the law, but we really are raised by the communities in which we work. And that's where the kills are honed by law enforcement and the ability to communicate and decide when to use deadly force actually a curse.

BROWN: All right. Jonathan Gilliam, thank you very much.

GILLIAM: You got it.

BROWN: And next hour, Carol returns to the training facility, and this time there is a much different outcome. Stay with us.

Next, Donald Trump demanding the "New York Times" apologize after questionable comments he made about one of its reporters. What he told a crowd in Florida, today.

But first, this week's "Turning Point".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As a young electrician back in 1992, the prime of Hector Picard's life was in front of him. But as he was climbing a transformer to dismantle it, tragedy struck.

HECTOR PICARD, ADAPTIVE ATHLETE: Made contact with my right arm and 13,000 volts of electricity went through my right arm, down my side and blew out my foot. Thirty days later, I wake up from a coma, my entire right arm is gone, half my left and second and third degree burns over 40 percent of my body.

GUPTA: But he says he never let the "why me" attitude take hold.

PICARD: Then I started thinking, OK, I've got to get my life back, but I've got to learn how to do all these thing for myself.

GUPTA: He accepted that challenge and learned a whole new set of skills to achieve it. And then he discovered triathlons.

PICARD: It's a great way to go out there and challenge myself, be competitive.

GUPTA: He swims on his back, bikes using his knees to break and steer. You may recognize him from this popular YouTube video changing a bike tire with his teeth and feet.

One hundred and nineteen races later, Hector says he's never felt better.

PICARD: I'm happy to be alive. I got a second chance at life. I want to live it to the fullest.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:53:40] BROWN: Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson making a surprise trip to Syrian refugee camps in Jordan, as he faces increasing scrutiny over his foreign policy credentials. No media was allowed to film the visit, which his campaign said was aimed to help him better understand the refugee crisis stemming from Syria's civil war. Carson recently came under fire for claiming the Chinese were fighting in Syria, and used an analogy some believe likened refugees to rabid dogs.

Carson has said he does not support allowing Syrian refugees into the United States and that safe zones instead should be established in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump, citing recent terror attacks in Paris, has touted his opposition to gun control. Trump telling a crowd gathered in Florida today he's behind the Second Amendment 100 percent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If some of those folks that were just slaughtered in Paris, if a couple of guns that were in that room that were held by the good guys, you would have had a totally different story. Let me tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: During that rally, Trump also touched on his ongoing feud with the "New York Times."

CNN's Athena Jones is following the Trump campaign and has more from Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Pamela.

Donald Trump spoke before a boisterous and very excited crowd here in Sarasota. As he often does, he talked tough on ISIS. He talked about his plans to build a wall along the Mexican border.

[16:55:02] And he also hit his rivals hard. He blasted the president, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich in particular, and also the media.

Trump spent several minutes talking about his dust-up with the "New York Times" this week, after seeming to mock the physical disability of one of the paper's reporters, Serge Kovaleski. Trump said again today that he didn't mock Kovaleski, that he didn't know this reporter and didn't know he had a disability. Take a listen to what he had to say.

TRUMP: So I was very expressive in saying it. And they said I was mocking him. I would never mock a person that has difficulty. I would never do that. I don't know him. Now he's going, well, he knew me and we were on

first name -- give me a break. Give me a break.

And the problem is he's using what he's got to such a horrible degree. I think it's disgraceful. And I think the "New York Times," frankly, should give me an apology.

JONES: So, there you have it, Trump repeating his call for an apology from the "New York Times," and also once again accusing this reporter, Serge Kovaleski, of using his disability to his advantage.

One more thing I want to make note of here. There was a brief interruption early in Trump's speech, a protestors shouting. While it was difficult to make out what the protester was saying, Trump made a point of asking the crowd to be nicer to the person, don't hurt the person, and asking security to nicely escort her out. A very different story from what we saw with a protester in Birmingham, Alabama, last week -- Pamela.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Absolutely. Athena Jones, thank you.

And we'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)