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Giuliani: Trump is "Exaggerating" 9/11 Claim; Suspected Killer Appears via Video in Court; Controversy over HIV Prevention Pill. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 01, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

In the face of sharp criticism for his claims of seeing Muslims in the United States celebrating after the September 11th attacks, Donald Trump is standing firm.

This morning Rudy Giuliani, who was the mayor of New York City on that fateful day, waded into the debate himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:30:00] RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: We had some attacks and we did have some celebrating -- that is true. We had pockets of celebration -- some in Queens, some in Brooklyn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many people?

GIULIANI: 10, 12, 30, 40.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And those weren't just rumors, those weren't just reports.

GIULIANI: No, no, no, no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You went out and checked them out?

GIULIANI: We had one situation in which a candy store owned by a Muslim family was celebrating that day, right near a housing development. The kids in the housing development came in and beat them up.

And I think both facts were corroborated to be true. They were celebrating that the towers had come down. And some of the kids in the housing development got really upset about it and they came in and did a pretty good job of beating them up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. So a handful of isolated incidents, you're saying --

GIULIANI: Yes. I was very proud of that, you know, we expected a lot of it. Bernie Kerik was the police commissioner at the time. We expected -- because the anger was so great, we expected a lot of irrational acts of violence against people who appeared to be Islamic or Muslim --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, you expected violence against Muslims. You weren't expecting celebrating.

GIULIANI: And we had very, very little. We had some language. We had some yelling and screaming. I can't give you a count of the number of acts of violence but nothing really serious. And we did have some reports of people celebrating that day while the towers were coming down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But if there had been thousands of people --

GIULIANI: I would have -- I would have known that for sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, Donald Trump is, therefore, not telling the truth?

GIULIANI: Well, I think what he's doing is exaggerating, right? People were celebrating, he's right about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's talk about this some more. John Avlon is with me. He's the editor-in-chief of "The Daily Beast" and a CNN political analyst; and former speechwriter for Mayor Giuliani. Bernard Kerik is with me too, he was the commissioner of the New York City Police Department on 9/11. Good morning to both of you.

BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYPD COMMISSIONER: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So Bernie --

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So Bernie, I want to start with you. Mayor Giuliani said there were a handful of people celebrating. You would have investigated these reports. Tell me in your mind what went down after the towers came down.

KERIK: We had a number of reports of people celebrating. I remember Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. There were some in Queens. There were also some in Jersey; Paterson, New Jersey. I think Jersey City. I was receiving intelligence briefings from various guys in the agency, everywhere from intel to some of the guys assigned to the FBI terrorist task force. We were constantly getting these briefings.

And the one thing that I want to talk about the mayor mentioned, you know, these hate crime incidents, I actually have the exact numbers. I issued a report --

COSTELLO: Before we talk about that, Bernie, I want to talk about the people allegedly celebrating. You investigated reports of people celebrating after the towers came down. Did any of those reports prove true and how many people were actually, if they were, celebrating?

KERIK: You know what it was -- Carol. It wasn't we weren't investigating people celebrating. You know, that's -- the intelligence guys who were keeping their sort of thumb on the pulse of what was going on in the communities. I'd have to agree with the mayor, you probably had anywhere from 10 to 50 people celebrating in different pockets of the community, the Arab community.

COSTELLO: But you mentioned specifically Paterson, New Jersey, which Donald Trump mentioned specifically. He said thousands and thousands. Is that accurate in your mind?

KERIK: Well, I can't say it's accurate. That's not what I remember. But I definitely remember Paterson, New Jersey because I'm from Paterson. I grew up there. And the cops and the locals that I know were getting to me, basically saying that there were a lot of people over there that were celebrating.

I would -- I would have to -- you know, I don't know what the numbers were. You know, I wasn't watching TV. You know, I didn't have access to TV. I was way too busy. We had 71 incidents, hate crime incidents that were investigated between September 11th and September 27th. A number of those were -- were people responding to people celebrating.

We had 863 bomb threats in that, you know, 20-day period. So, we were extremely busy. There was a lot going on. But I do remember a number of reports of people celebrating.

COSTELLO: But you didn't see any, right? I'm just trying to get at what's the truth, because thousands and thousands and a dozen or a couple of dozen are two different things.

KERIK: Carol, in all honesty, and I'd have -- I think I could speak for the mayor here, we didn't have -- we weren't watching TV. There was way too much stuff going on. You know, whatever was on TV was on TV.

[10:35:07] I remember seeing later a lot of the footage of what happened abroad, you know, thousands of Palestinians protesting and celebrating in the aftermath of the attacks. I remember that later. During that time, none of us was watching TV. None of us was looking at that kind of footage. We just didn't have time.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Ok. John Avlon --

KERIK: But it was possibly (inaudible) to our office.

COSTELLO: John Avlon I know -- look at you itching to get in here, John Avlon. So, your former boss, Rudy Giuliani, he said, you know, Donald Trump was greatly exaggerating. Why do you think Rudy Giuliani waded into the debate at this particular time?

AVLON: Well, I can't speak to Rudy's timing, but it certainly makes sense to ask him. As Bernie points out, you know, the focus on that day in the immediate aftermath was a fog of war. And if, indeed, there were pockets, handfuls of people celebrating -- that's not what Donald Trump is saying.

And I think Rudy's making a point beyond exaggeration that this is somebody who is trying to create a mental image, which he's not backing down from, of thousands of Muslims celebrating in the New York area when the towers went down. There may have been isolated incidents in a city of eight million and that's despicable.

But trying to demagogue that 15 years later to justify deporting Syrian refugees, to sow the seeds of pure division, that's the underlying issue of why we're talking about it today.

And it doesn't comport with the facts. In the wake of 9/11, hours afterwards, Rudy Giuliani said, let's not engage in group blame. That specifically was because of concerns that folks might take their anger out on people they perceive to be members of the Muslim community. And by and large, that didn't happen. Bernie just gave you those numbers.

George W. Bush gave the same message from the White House. That's not the kind of messaging, that's not the kind of inclusiveness we've been seeing from too many folks in the Republican field today and that's the underlying issue.

COSTELLO: Bernie, how would you characterize what Donald Trump is saying?

KERIK: You know, Carol, I think -- look, you know, I -- like I said, I wasn't watching TV. I didn't see any of the footage. I do know there were thousands of people around the world, in Arab communities, you know, celebrating --

COSTELLO: I'm just talking here in the New York area.

KERIK: You know what -- you'd have to ask Donald Trump. You'd have to ask Donald Trump. I can't speak for him. What I can speak for is, we did have people celebrating in New York City, in New Jersey -- and that information was coming back to me in New York City.

COSTELLO: But it wasn't thousands and thousands of people, as far as you can recall?

KERIK: Not to my recollection, no.

COSTELLO: All right. So, John, you're shaking your head. You get the final word.

AVLON: It clearly wasn't thousands and thousands of people in New York City and the surrounding area. And if there were individual incidents, that's absolutely disgusting and despicable and disrespectful.

But to try to inflate that for divisive, demagogue political purposes, which he gets away from as Rudy pointed out because he's a celebrity, and people already are making a big mental discount -- that actually demeans the quest for truth, it demeans the presidential contest, and that's what we should be focusing on as well as looking back at the granularity of that day. That's the underlying issue. That's worth focusing on right now.

COSTELLO: Bernard Kerik -- thank you so much for being with me. And John -- thank you for being with me too.

KERIK: Thanks -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: disturbing new details about the man suspected of opening fire at a Planned Parenthood clinic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:03] COSTELLO: If convicted, the accused Planned Parenthood gunman could be put to death. That's the news Robert Lewis Dear learned his first court appearance after that deadly rampage. The 57-year-old who's being held without bond faced a judge via a video feed from jail. He did not enter a plea or discussed details of the case, leaving investigators uncertain about his possible motives.

CNN's Dan Simon, live in Colorado Springs with more. Good morning.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol.

Well, when you look at that video of the suspect, you could see that he was wearing some kind of protective vest, which apparently is a suicide prevention vest. The other thing you notice is that he looks to be somewhat out of it. He's slowly blinking his eyes. He almost looked like as if he was struggling to stay awake.

This was a relatively routine court hearing, lasted just 13 minutes. He was appointed a public defender, a man named Daniel King, who interestingly enough is the same attorney who represented James Holmes, the mass killer in that Colorado movie theater.

In terms of where we go from here, the next court date is scheduled for a week from Wednesday.

And Carol -- we're also getting some new information about the investigation. A law enforcement source tells CNN that the suspect brought a lot of weapons to the Planned Parenthood clinic. They found a duffel bag filled with rifles and handguns.

They don't know at this point why that particular Planned Parenthood was targeted. Of course there's a lot of speculation that maybe his anti-abortion, anti-government views played into this but at this point they say it's still too early to come up with a conclusive motive -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Dan Simon reporting live from Colorado Springs this morning. Still to come in the NEWSROOM: a pill that could prevent HIV.

More and more people want it, but now there's a new concern. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:48:57] COSTELLO: Today, December 1st, marks World AIDS Day. The disease back in the headlines after actor Charlie Sheen told the world he was HIV positive. Despite the fact AIDS has killed an estimated 39 million people to date, there's a growing controversy over a pill that actually prevents the potentially deadly infection. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now with more on that. Good morning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol. Yes. I mean in some ways this pill -- this type of pill therapy should be a no-brainer. It can prevent someone who's at high risk of getting HIV. It can prevent it about 90 percent of the time. So it's a remarkably effective medication.

But there are some concerns, and as you say, some controversies. So we wanted to take a closer loom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: As far as boyfriends go, Charlie Firousi (ph) is quite a catch. He's got a masters degree, a great job, a loving family and friends. Some might say he's one in a million. But the CDC says he's more like 1 in 500,000. Those are people at high risk for contracting HIV.

[10:50:01] This particular issue around pre-exposure prophylaxis, do you remember the first time you heard about it?

CHARLIE FIROUSI: When I moved to the city. That's where I really found out about it.

GUPTA: PREP, pre-exposure prophylaxis was virtually unheard of until September. That's when it got its prime time moment on ABC's hit show "How to Get Away with Murder"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to be able to enjoy any sex if I'm worried I'm putting you in danger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm on PREP.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have two more weeks before it works. Not to mention, you can't know for sure if you really want this.

GUPTA: And just like Conner, Charlie isn't sure if he really wants to go on PREP, that's a pill taken once a day to prevent contracting HIV.

According to the CDC, people at high risk who should be counseled for PRE include one in four sexually active gay and bisexual men. When taken every day, PREP can reduce the risk of getting HIV from sex by more than 90 percent. New York City's Department of Health Dr. Demetre Daskalakis played a major role in getting the drug Truvada FDA-approved for HIV prevention in 2012.

DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS: The way it works in prevention is really similar in that you have a level of the drug that develops in cells, target cells for HIV infection. So, if someone is exposed to HIV and HIV happens to get in that cell, all of a sudden it hits a major stop sign and it cannot reproduce its own genetic code. If it can't produce genetic code, it can't become a replicating virus and it can't cause an infection.

GUPTA: But not everyone is applauding this other little blue pill. Michael Weinstein is the president of the AIDS Health Care foundation. They're a non profit currently caring for more than half a million HIV/AIDS patients around the world.

MICHAEL WEINSTEIN, AIDS HEALTHCARE FOUNDATION: If people take this drug, they're not going to use condoms. In recent studies that have come out. You had as much as 50 percent of all the people who are in the study had STIs -- that's sexually transmitted infections. So, it should be clear that this drug does not protect you against syphilis, gonorrhea and Chlamydia. And we have sky high rates of those diseases.

GUPTA: Birth control, of course, doesn't protect against STIs or HIV either. And when the pill was introduced back in the 1960s, some women who chose to go on it were labeled as promiscuous.

For his part, Charlie shrugs off the comparison, insisting he sees PREP as an added safety net to use in conjunction with condoms.

At this point is your mind made up?

FIROUSI: Yes. I'm very surprised with myself if I don't ever go on PREP, you know. The research is there. I've friends who are using it and they've good experiences. So yes, absolutely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: So, again, Carol, there's some controversy over it because does AID medication that can prevent, very effectively prevent someone from getting HIV also encourage high-risk behavior? There's no evidence of that so far in the early studies but that's the big concern, also the cost. This is an expensive treatment. Once a day pill that costs about $18,000 a year so some insurance companies cover that, but that's part of this issue as well.

COSTELLO: $18,000 a year?

GUPTA: Yes, more than a thousand a month.

COSTELLO: Wow. Ok. So you just -- you answered my question. Why aren't more people taking it? That's probably the biggest reason, right?

GUPTA: I think that is certainly a big reason. But there's also, you know, even a lot of doctors don't know about this as an option yet. It's been around since 2012 as a prevention mechanism for HIV. A lot of doctors, a lot of patients obviously don't know about this. So I think it's been one of these collisions of science and philosophy to some extent.

COSTELLO: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta -- thanks.

GUPTA: Yes, thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM", your wallet may need a break today. A record amount of shopping done on Cyber Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:21] COSTELLO: A record-setting Cyber Monday. Listen to the staggering number. Shoppers spent $3 billion online yesterday. CNN's chief business correspondent, Christine Romans has more for you this morning. Wow.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I know. Good morning, Carol. Be honest, wasn't your inbox flooded with e-mail offers yesterday for 15 percent, 20 percent, 25 percent off? Well millions of you, millions of you announced their shopping yesterday and spent about $3 billion. That's up 12 percent from the year prior and it is a record, no question more people are using mobile devices, they're using their phones to do the shopping and they're shopping all month. It's no longer Black Friday or Cyber Monday. Now we're talking about black November and Cyber Monday, by the way, you know, people are still having deals this week. They're calling it Cyber Week so I'm telling you be very prudent. Keep your standard tie. Don't expect -- don't pay for anything less than 30 percent off is my advice to you because there will be more god deals as the weeks go forward. We have three more weeks for the holidays so, you know, don't settle for anything less than 30 percent off -- Carol. Do not pay for shipping.

Look around, free shipping should be standard in many places it is. And make sure you're looking for easy return policies, Carol. No restocking fees all of these retailers want your business. They need to make it as easy as possible to buy and to return and they need to have big, big discounts and that's what we're seeing -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So, by December 24th things could be free.

ROMANS: Maybe they could be free if they're not sold out. One of the problems with yesterday, was there were some things that were sold out, Carol -- big, big, big purchases of "Star Wars" items and electronics.

I would like to make a quick point that today is Tuesday #givingtuesday. A lot of charities would like you to give money to charity today and maybe stop all the spending on yourself and on your loved ones.

COSTELLO: That would be terrific. Christine Romans -- many thanks.

ROMANS: You're welcome. COSTELLO: And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol

Costello, at this hour with Berman and Bolduan starts now.