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Trump on Campaign; Presidential Campaigns; New Trump Audio. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 26, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:11] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

Very, very soon Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump will be holding rallies in battleground states. We are 13 days away from Election Day and here is a little taste of the headlines right now.

We have today new audiotapes, Trump talks life, talks new e-mails. Hillary Clinton aides talk cleanup. And a new spat involving Megyn Kelly over sex. And, oh, yes, Mitt Romney's back.

But we must start with Donald Trump's first one-on-one interview with CNN in a month. Mr. Trump just spoke with our chief political correspondent Dana Bash after his grand opening of his hotel. Dana joins me from the event there in Washington.

Dana Bash, take it away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: First I want to ask you about your event here. There's new audiotape of you talking about the fact that you really have relied on your popularity and the fact that people come to your events and that helps you with free advertising. Is that what this was about?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: No, not at all. This was just under budget, ahead of schedule. That's what this is. Under budget, ahead of schedule. We built a hotel that is going to be one of the great hotels of the world. Just opened today. It officially opens today. And we built it for less money than was anticipated and we built it ahead of schedule by over a year. And if the country would do that, we would have a country that would be in much better shape than its - you know, highways, they build highways for double and triple the costs. They build hospitals -

BASH: And so to people who say you're taking time out of swing states to go do this, you say?

TRUMP: I say the following. You have been covering me for the last - long time. I did yesterday eight stops and three major speeches. And I've been doing this for weeks straight. I left here - I left there for an hour and a half. I'm going to North Carolina right now. Then I'm going to Florida. I'm going up to New Hampshire. For you to ask me that question is actually very insulting because Hillary Clinton does one stop and then she goes home and sleeps and yet you'll ask me that question. I think it's a very rude question, to be honest with you.

And what I do is, I want to back my children. My children work very hard, Ivanka in particular. And at the opens of the hotel, I want to back my children. Very important to me.

So we had a ribbon cutting, which was very quick. And I stopped in D.C. But the real key to this is, I want the American people to understand that this is under budget, ahead of schedule and we need that for the United States.

BASH: And I - just so you know, I've been reporting on the fact that you're going to North Carolina for a couple of stops straight from here.

TRUMP: Oh, that's fine.

BASH: But my next question is, there's a new poll in Florida that has you up a couple of points. Other swing states have you really in the hunt. Given that, are you prepared to write a check -

TRUMP: Sure.

BASH: To help yourself get over the finish line? And if so, how big? And I'm talking about advertising.

TRUMP: Well, let me - let me just tell you - let me just tell you that we have - I'll have over $100 million in the campaign. Hillary Clinton has nothing in the campaign. She's all special interests, and donors, and they give her the money, then she will do whatever they tell her to do. But I will have over $100 million in the campaign and I'm prepared to go much more than that.

Now, here's the question. New polls are coming out. We're leading in Florida. We're doing great in North Carolina. We're doing great in Pennsylvania. We're doing great all over. We're doing really well in New Hampshire. Ohio, as you know, and Iowa are doing fantastically well. I'm telling you, CNN doesn't say it, but I think we're going to win.

BASH: So, but to do that, you have a pretty big bank account.

TRUMP: I do.

BASH: You can - and time is running out. The clock's ticking.

TRUMP: That's OK.

BASH: Will you write a check and - and -

TRUMP: I've already done it. I've already written a number of them.

BASH: But I mean specifically - specifically to get up on the air - TRUMP: Sure.

BASH: To combat the ads -

TRUMP: Sure.

BASH: That you say Hillary Clinton is running against you.

TRUMP: Look, she's got - well, in Florida, she has 50-1 against me. Fifty. You were the one that reported that.

BASH: But you - but you have the means to combat that.

TRUMP: Well, in the meantime - sure I do. But in the meantime, 50-1 and I'm leading. How would you like to have spent - you know, in the old days you'd get credit if you would spend less money and have victory. That would be a good thing. Today you - they want you to spend money. I'll have over $100 million. I'm willing to spend much more than that if I have to. I'm seeing just great signs.

You know, one of the other things we're seeing in Florida, we're seeing it in other places, the lines going into voting booths, going into voting areas are unbelievable. I mean in Florida yesterday we passed four of them, the lines were three and four blocks long. Those are not her voters, because her voters have no enthusiasm whatsoever.

BASH: Can you just be specific? How much are you willing to -

TRUMP: No, I wouldn't - I wouldn't be -

BASH: Put down in order to put up new ads?

TRUMP: No, I've already - I will have over $100 million in and I'm willing to invest more than that.

BASH: Like, how much?

TRUMP: Don't - don't - just - let's go for your next question, Dana.

BASH: OK. Well, my last question, because I'm getting the hook over here, is, in this speech here, you talked about the fact that this is the second best piece of real estate on Pennsylvania Avenue. In 14 days, are you hoping that you're going to be spending after that more time here or down the street?

[14:05:08] TRUMP: Well, look, I just hope that - you know, I built a great company. This is truly a great company with some of the great assets of the world, not only in our country, but in other countries. And I predicted Brexit. You were one of the people that asked me about Brexit. And I said it's going to happen. And I'm not even saying this is Brexit, but I think the result is going to be the same if not more so.

We are going to have, I think, a tremendous victory. People don't want four more years of Obama. They don't want Hillary with all of the corruption and all of the problems. And you see all of these WikiLeaks coming out and they're a disaster. And when you see John Podesta, who I think is terrible the way he speaks about her, but that she has bad instincts. John Podesta saying that the person he works for has bad instincts? I think it's terrible.

But so many other things even worse than that are out. It's about their honesty and their dishonesty. I really think that we're going to have a tremendous victory. And you know what, if I didn't think that, I wouldn't say it. I'd say, well, we're going to be fighting hard.

Now, we will be fighting hard, but I believe we're winning. I actually think we're winning. I don't even think it's a question of, we're going to try and win. You start looking at the polls, what's happening. And, more importantly, start looking at all the people going to vote and sending in their ballots. We're way ahead on virtually every state, every area, and I think we're going to have a great victory.

BASH: Thank you, Mr. Trump.

TRUMP: Thank you.

BASH: Thank you for your time.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

BASH: I appreciate it. Thank you.

Nice to see you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, now let me bring Dana in.

So, Dana, great snag and, you know, talking to Mr. Trump here on CNN, my follow-up to you is, why were you trying to pin him down on whether or not he wants to write more checks, you know, to help combat those Hillary Clinton ads against him? What are you hearing from Republicans?

BASH: Yes, and that's - and it's an important context - important context, I should say, for me to talk about and I will, but a little bit into one of the questions here. But what I'm hearing from Republicans is a concern that they're fighting with one hand tied behind their back for the following reason. Yes, Donald Trump has been out raising money with the RNC, the republican National Committee, for a joint fund, but he hasn't been, because of the nature of his campaign in the primaries, he was a self-funder, he hasn't been raising money for his campaign in and of itself.

What - what does that mean? It means that the Republican National Committee, which is doing the work on the ground operation, all the - sort of the get out the vote grass-roots that they really need to do and that the Hillary Clinton and Democratic Party is also doing as well. But when it comes to TV advertising in particular, that has been Donald Trump's and his campaign's purview. And the concern and the frustration that I've heard from Republicans is, why isn't he, since he is a billionaire, as he talks about over and over again, why isn't he putting more of his money where his mouth is and trying to get on the air, especially in some states where he does have the opportunity to win. And so that's why I pushed him on that line of questioning.

Now, I should just say that he was saying that he has put $100 million into his campaign and I - and I'm just looking online and seeing some of the reports. Apparently, the last FEC report says that he's put in $56 million. Now, $56 million is a lot of money, but when you compare that to the juggernaut that Hillary Clinton and her campaign and her super PAC have, that is why the Republicans who I've talked to say that there is frustration, that if he - because he is so unique, because he has money, if he would, you know, put more in so that they could do paid advertising, particularly somebody who says that he doesn't feel that he's getting a fair shake from the media, we can put that aside. But if that is his point of view, it's questionable for some Republicans why he's not being more aggressive with his money.

BALDWIN: All right, Dana Bash, thank you for the Trump interview.

That's where I want to begin with my panel. We just heard from Donald Trump. Joining me now, Steve Cortes, a member of Trump's National Hispanic Advisory Council, and also joining us Hilary Rosen, CNN political commentator who supports Hillary Clinton.

So great to have both of you on.

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And let's just start with the interview we just heard. And, Hilary, first to you. I mean Democrats are excoriating Trump for, you know, stopping to do this ribbon cutting at a D.C. hotel, you know, 13 days out. But when you listen to him, you know, he's right, he is far outnumbering Hillary Clinton at campaign events. He says, you know, he wanted to be at this hotel for his kids. This is not just, you know, Donald Trump's brand, it is that of his family.

ROSEN: You know, you can make an argument for this either way. I think what profession campaign operatives say is that people across the country living in, you know, in Ohio and in Florida and in North Carolina and states that are really competitive need to see Donald Trump there more because he is behind. But, you know, his message that he is a successful business man, he's hoping that this hotel covers up his, you know, four, you know, prior bankruptcies on prior hotels, not paying contractors, doing all of those things. He has really not - his business reputation I think has really been put out there for all to see in this campaign and, you know, this is kind of a last ditch effort, I think, on his part to try and repair that because he's thinking past election day when - when Hillary Clinton's president and he's got to go back to the Trump business, I think.

[14:10:29] BALDWIN: Steve, is Hilary right, is he thinking past Election Day? Is he thinking about - I mean he says he's winning. What -

STEVE CORTES, TRUMP SURROGATE: No, not at all. We're thinking - we are laser focused on these next 13 days. By the way, I'm very proud of him that he went to his hotel because I think it's symbolic to show the American people that he has spent his life, not in politics, but he has spent his life employing tens of thousands of people and selling deals. In contrast, Hillary Clinton has spent most of her life employing defense lawyers and selling influence. And I think that contrast is going to be one of the main reasons that people are compelled to go to the polls and to put a maverick and an outsider in office. And I hope to stay in that hotel for his inauguration come January.

BALDWIN: OK.

ROSEN: Well, there are rooms available, so you can.

BALDWIN: And not cheap, but perhaps - perhaps he can fill them all. Let me move in, though, you two, let me move on to these revelations and new questions about how some of Hillary Clinton's closest confidantes reacted when news first broke that she had used a private e-mail server while secretary of state. WikiLeaks, in another batch, just published more hacked e-mails from the account of Clinton's campaign chairman John Podesta.

So in this March 2015 exchange, just as one example, the woman now in charge of Clinton's transition team, Neera Tanden, writes, and you see it here, "why didn't they get this stuff out like 18 months ago? So crazy." And this "stuff," this is in reference to Hillary Clinton's top aides at the State Department in the e-mails. Podesta replies, "unbelievable." Tanden then writes, "I guess I know the answer, they wanted to get away with it."

Hilary, what were they trying to get -

ROSEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: I know you're - listen, Democratic talking points, with all due respect, Russia, hacking -

ROSEN: No, no, I'm not going - I'm not going to give you talking points.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

ROSEN: I'm going to tell you what I honestly think.

BALDWIN: What? Tell me.

ROSEN: Which is that when this did come out that she was using - had continued to use the Clinton e-mail address, there weren't a lot of good explanations and there were a lot of people who were close to her who were kind of puzzled by this. I think Neera, in particular, was talking about the getting away with it wasn't that they'd hoped that not to have this come out, but the getting away with was that they had hoped to have this not really be the focus of the launch of her presidential campaign. That's what they were talking about during those couple of days. So it is clear, though, that this was a mistake on Hillary Clinton's

part. She has repeatedly apologized for it. She has said it was a mistake. And I don't really think there's any - there's no excuse for it and I don't think that the revelations today that it upset some people on her team are particularly interesting because of course it would upset people on her team.

BALDWIN: But you do understand that what some of these e-mails show - I mean this is - this is - there's no bombshell, but it is unprecedented, the look into this major presidential campaign and the polls on a penchant for secrecy and even the exchanges on whether or not -

ROSEN: No, there's - there's no bombshell. I think -

BALDWIN: Whether not she's hesitant in truly owning it. That is a piece of the conversation. And -

ROSEN: Yes, but I think - I think what -

BALDWIN: And what was Cheryl Mills, Hilary, what was Cheryl Mills trying to clean up once the president found out she wasn't using a government server?

ROSEN: Well, I think that conversation was that if the president misspoke they needed to warn him that he perhaps misspoke. Again, I think this is -

CORTES: Well, Brooke, I think -

ROSEN: Typical staff work trying to figure out how to deal with the situation at hand. I don't think it's revelatory. If you looked at the e-mail's of Donald Trump's staff, I'm sure there's a ton of this stuff going on about positioning and the like. You know, the Clinton team is not verifying any of this. We have seen that there were some doctored e-mails coming out of this Russian espionage. So I can't even verify it is. But even if it is authentic, I just don't see that these internal machinations really provide any new information.

CORTES: Brooke, I - I -

BALDWIN: OK. Steve, go ahead.

CORTES: I disagree. I think there is a bombshell in there. And the bombshell is that the president, apparently, according to those staffers, did not tell us the truth. So he needs to be confronted on this. He had claimed that he learned from the media, like the rest of us, about this hidden e-mail server. And, in fact, it looks like that' not true. So they need to answer to that.

But here's what's more important, I think, for Americans is. Donald Trump has never been a politician. He's never had the reins of power. So even if there were similar e-mails from his staff, it's really not relevant. The Clintons, by contrast, had the reins of power. And while she was secretary of state, she abused her power immensely, both for private gain via speeches and the Clinton Foundation, and then also for public corruption. We know, for instance, that her State Department top aides were trying to get the FBI to retroactively make something non-classified. So there's enormous abuse of power here at many, many levels.

[14:15:09] ROSEN: OK, nothing you just said -

CORTES: And we need to investigate the - it's all true and we need to investigate the investigation.

ROSEN: Nothing you just said is true. There is none of that that is true of -

CORTES: It's all true. It is all true.

ROSEN: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, it's not true and it has been proven to be not true. It's been -

CORTES: Through Freedom of Information Act, we know that the State Department tried to influence the FBI.

ROSEN: But here's a critical issue. If Donald Trump -

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Hilary. Go ahead, Hilary.

ROSEN: If Donald Trump wants to say to people, my business experience over the last number of years is relevant to your decision about whether or not to elect me president, then his actions as businessman are relevant. The actions of his campaign, the actions of his bankruptcies, the actions of, you know, him not paying contractors, the actions of his hundreds of lawsuits against him for bad behavior and discriminating against African-Americans, all of that is equally relevant.

So, Hillary Clinton has said repeatedly that she made a mistake here. She has - she's apologized for it. We haven't seen, you know, the digging into Donald Trump's history through Donald Trump himself admitting any mistakes the way that Hillary Clinton has.

BALDWIN: OK.

ROSEN: I think that means that you can - you can deal with this as a trust issue.

CORTES: By - by the way -

BALDWIN: I appreciate hearing from both - got to go. American voters have a big decision to make in 13 days. Steve and Hilary, I truly appreciate both of you.

Ahead, more to talk about. Trump's feud with Megyn Kelly, part six. The nominee praising Newt Gingrich for a wild argument on live television in which he says Kelly is fascinated with sex. We're going to discuss that.

Also ahead, wrap your head around this, the sitting vice president and the Republican nominee are squaring off over having a fistfight. Yes, folks, a physical fight with one another. We'll talk live with America's historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. Let me say it again, 13 days and counting. We'll be right back.

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[14:21:04] BALDWIN: And we're back on a Wednesday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Donald Trump, in his own words, talking about the fear of losing, his love of fighting, and his fixation with seeing his name in bright lights. New insight into the Republican nominee revealed in new tapes released by his biographer, five hours of conversations recorded before Trump announced he would be running for president. Here's just some of this audio, this is what he said starting with Trump's response to a question about fame.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's happened from - from the time I was fairly young. It just happened.

INTERVIEWER: Did it unnerve you at first?

TRUMP: No.

INTERVIEWER: Or make you feel unsafe ever?

TRUMP: No. I think what would unnerve me, if it didn't happen. You can be tough and ruthless and all that stuff, and if you lose a lot, nobody's going to follow you because you're looked at as a loser. Winning is a very important thing and the most important aspect of leadership is winning. If you have a record of winning, people are going to follow you.

I loved to fight. I always loved to fight.

INTERVIEWER: Physical fights?

TRUMP: Yes, all kinds of fights, physical -

INTERVIEWER: Arguments?

TRUMP: All types of fights. Any kind of fight I loved it, including physical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Michael Barbaro, "New York Times" national political reporter, who obtained the tapes. Also joining me, Tim O'Brien, author of "TrumpNation: The Art of Being The Donald," who, by the way, was sued by Trump who claimed the book libeled him by low balling his net worth. The suit dragged on for years before it was dismissed. Trump appealed the decision. Trump lost.

So, that said, gentlemen, hello. Tim, let me just - let me turn to you first because you spent quite a

bit of time with him writing "TrumpNation." In this bit about - you know, he was at this New York Military Academy and he tells these anecdotes about how he would be beaten up or he would enjoy fighting. I think Michael D'Antonio said his lust for fighting. And your point is, he has been like that since he was 12?

TIM O'BRIEN, AUTHOR, "TRUMPNATION: THE ART OF BEING THE DONALD": Yes, I think - I think he sort of popped out of the womb as an undisciplined, self-absorbed, combative little kid and - and he never really evolved. And I think one of the reasons - the reason he went to the military academy is because his father sent him there. His father couldn't discipline him. And Fred Trump was a very tough character. But the Trump family couldn't - couldn't rein him in and they sent him off to military school.

BALDWIN: But isn't a piece of what so many Americans love about him is his - his panache, his will to fight? You know, he won't take it sitting down.

O'BRIEN: His bravado.

BALDWIN: His bravado.

O'BRIEN: Absolutely. I think that appeals to a large swath of the voters. But what's interesting is, in the - in the "Times" tapes and from - that both the Michaels got, you really see revealed a deep insecurity. For all of his bravado and brashness, he's wildly insecure. He needs to be in the spotlight. He needs fame and attention. When the media's not paying attention to him, he feels lost.

BALDWIN: Thank you for providing my segue.

O'BRIEN: Good. Good.

BALDWIN: Because, Michael, I want to ask you about this. But I just want to play this piece. This is about - he's talking about Arsenio Hall -

MICHAEL BARBARO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Right.

BALDWIN: Who was on "Celebrity Apprentice," who was huge, huge, huge. And then suddenly Mr. Trump points out it was tough for him to even get on TV. Here's the audio.

OK, so let me read it for you. Imagine if you - if I were Donald Trump reading this. Can we throw it back on the screen so I can read the verbate? "Arsenio Hall goes on "The Apprentice," tells me that since he's been on the show he's wanted to get back on television." Then he says - and so - let me - so he's basically saying Arsenio Hall is having a tough time getting on TV and that -- that, I think Michael D'Antonio's point, was that it's like his worst nightmare, Michael, that -

BARBARO: Yes.

BALDWIN: His fame was waning.

BARBARO: Yes. I mean as I - as I recall the full clip, what he said about Arsenio Hall was that he was as dead as dog meat, he was as dead as a door nail. And this is kind of psychology 101. We lash out at that which we fear most for ourselves. And what Donald Trump fears most for himself is that his celebrity will dim, that the world will forget him, that he will be irrelevant.

[14:25:16] And, remember, he is so contemptuous of Arsenio Hall, who had a late night television show that bore his name. I mean Arsenio Hall is a success by almost any reasonable measure, but he let it slip for just a moment. And for that - and that's enough for Donald Trump to view him with such disdain because it's very clear from these tapes, that's what he fears most for himself, that he will lose the adoration and the embrace of the public.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you, Michael, because also, you know, you wrote a piece in "The Times" a couple weeks ago that I remember reading about Trump and the brand. And I think this is all sort of wrapped up in one. And you talked to some people, right, people who would have golfed at one of his golf resorts, or even folks who would have stayed at his hotel -

BARBARO: Yes.

BALDWIN: And they didn't want to - I mean the issue - I want to say the headline was something about people protesting his customers, which would be horrendous for him, especially if he loses.

BARBARO: Right. I mean there are - there's a segment of America, and it's pretty hard to quantify. We spoke to dozen and heard from hundreds online who said that simply not voting for Donald Trump after this election was not enough of a rebuke for them. They felt the need to distance themselves even further from him by, for example, cancelling hotel stays or putting out policies at their companies that would prevent people from staying at Trump hotels.

We spoke, as you referenced, to a gentleman named Morey Gold (ph), a 69-year-old retired doctor, who had planned a multiday very expensive golfing trip with his friends that they'd done for 15 years at the Doral National Golf Course that Trump owns in Miami. And they felt, as a group of men, that his language about women, minorities and immigrants had crossed the line so they cancelled that trip. That's real money. We want to be clear, we don't know what the consequences are for his brand.

BALDWIN: Right. Right.

BARBARO: The worry for Trump is that this just intensifies though and that it could inflict real damage.

BALDWIN: And just because, you know, you talked to a couple golfers who aren't going doesn't mean that his brand will be ruined forever. But, last question to you, just knowing the man and knowing his brand, I mean Trump brand is everywhere. If he were to lose and, yes, he has created a bit of a movement, but at the same time the other half of America can't stand him. So what happens?

O'BRIEN: Well, I mean, if there's brand devaluation as a result of his - of his candidacy, it will be completely counterproductive because I think the only reason Donald Trump ran for president was to be in the spotlight and to use it as a marketing device around his businesses. And we clearly see anecdotally and in some of the data the hotels aren't filling up.

BALDWIN: Today he's at the ribbon cutting in D.C.

O'BRIEN: Yes, and he's now using - and he's now using presidential stops to promote his business.

BALDWIN: Although he - although he says, listen, it's about his family as well, because it's not just Donald Trump, the brand, it's Don Jr., Eric -

O'BRIEN: Ivanka.

BALDWIN: Ivanka.

O'BRIEN: And we've seen there's been anecdotal evidence that women are turning away from Ivanka's clothing line and making very pointed statements about what they will and won't buy. And I think that will be one of the interesting little fallouts from this election is whether or not the Trump brand ends up in the gutter.

BALDWIN: Post November 8th.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Tim O'Brien, author of "TrumpNation," nice to see you again.

O'BRIEN: Good to be here.

BALDWIN: Thank you very much.

Michael Barbaro with "The New York Times," thank you, sir, as well.

BARBARO: A pleasure.

BALDWIN: Meantime, did you - did you see this exchange? If not, we'll play it for you. This is Newt Gingrich telling Megyn Kelly on live TV that she is fascinated with sex. See how she responds and why Trump today is praising the former House speaker.

Also ahead, America's historian Doris Kearns Goodwin will join me live on this wild election and her recent exit interview with President Obama. Don't miss this.

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