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Heated Post-Election Analysis; Trump's Thank You Tour. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired December 02, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:10]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We are keeping a close watch. Here you go, live pictures of those gold elevators. This is Trump Tower there on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, where the careers of some politicians and a number of non- politicians could change after one very important meeting.

Today, the president-elect has welcomed a number of potential advisers and Cabinet appointees. According to sources, they tell CNN that John Bolton is being considered for secretary of state. Mr. Trump is also meeting today with a Democrat. She is North Dakota Senator Heidi Heitkamp.

All of this on the heels of Trump's beginning of his thank you tour in Cincinnati, Ohio, last night. The president resurrected some of the campaign themes and language and going off prompter. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Although we did have a lot of fun fighting Hillary, didn't we, right?

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

AUDIENCE: Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's begin with Jessica Schneider there outside of Trump Tower in New York.

Did Trump make any policy announcements, Jessica?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's fair to say, Brooke, that Donald Trump was definitely in his element last night, covering a multitude of topics.

After weeks of being holed up here in Trump Tower, he got out into the crowds to hammer home his messages and his priorities. The theme of his speech and the theme of his rallies, putting America first. He talked about a number of different things. He said reaching out to American workers, cutting taxes, securing jobs here in the country, preventing them from leaving the country, but he also went into many of his campaign promises.

He talked about cutting back on immigration, specifically from countries that have been compromised by terrorism. And then, of course, he hammered in on his promises of repealing and replacing Obamacare. And he talked about a multitude of issues.

Interestingly, when people are saying that he should be reaching out to the plurality of voters who did, in fact, vote for his opponent, he offered these words of bringing this country together. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: But we're not going to be divided for long. I have always brought people together. I know you find that hard to believe. We will finally end illegal immigration. Have to.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We will construct a great wall at the border. And, by the way, we are repealing and replacing Obamacare.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: So Donald Trump calling that a thank you tour, the first stop on it. He said there will be several more stops in the weeks to come before he actually assumes the presidency on January 20.

Really today, back to business for Donald Trump. He's inside Trump Tower holding a number of meetings, many of them, one with U.N. -- or former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton, as well as former Secretary of State Robert Gates, also Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi.

And the one drawing the most intrigue that you mentioned off the top, North Dakota Democratic Senator Heidi Heitkamp, she said she would in fact be open to discussing joining a Trump administration. That remains to be seen.

But, of course, a lot of comings and goings. And Donald Trump does say expect more Cabinet announcements coming next week. Of course, we already know that big announcement on Monday that he already spilled the beans on, his nomination of General James Mattis for secretary of defense -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you for my segue, Jessica Schneider.

A seasoned combat commander known by nicknames of Mad Dog and Warrior Monk is the man who president-elect Trump would like to run the Pentagon.

Retired Four-Star General James Mattis spent 44 years in the Marine Corps. He also led U.S. Central Command. General Mattis has been highly praised troops in 2004 battle of Fallujah, one of the bloodiest of the Iraq War. Mr. Trump, as Jessica mentioned, couldn't resist breaking the embargo in making the announcement about the general that was actually supposed to happen next week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are going to appoint Mad Dog Mattis as our secretary of state of defense.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: But we're not announcing it until Monday, so don't tell anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's start there with chief political analyst Gloria Borger, CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, and CNN military analyst retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

Thank you for all being with me.

General, let's ask you about to this general, General Mattis. Tell me about him. What do you know?

[15:05:03]

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Very strong intellectual, called the Warrior Monk.

I don't think he likes the term Mad Dog. That's something the press put on him during the Battle of Fallujah, because he's not a mad dog, he's not out of control. He is a very controlled thinker and a strategic leader, great on the battlefield, Brooke, make no doubt about it.

I heard your interview with Marine sergeant during the last hour. And that's the kind of individual that he is. He's a great leader, has all the character, presence and intellect, as well as the capability of building teams and taking action. That's what he is famous for.

But he's also a great thinker. He's called the warrior monk because he is single, he focuses almost exclusively on defense issues and how to be a better general and a better combat commander during the last couple years of his career, but he also knows the world, Brooke. And that's the most important thing.

He understands what's going on around the globe in all areas, not just the fight against ISIS, but he understands Russia, he understands NATO, he knows China, he knows Southwest Asia. So this is a guy that has an intellect that will that will carry him very far as not only an adviser to Trump, but a runner of the Department of Defense.

BALDWIN: Let me just add to that thank you for listening to my interview with that staff sergeant, because I think what also struck me, is, he said to me, he said, said Brooke, I lost, I want to say, it as a six- or seven-month-old child. And General Mattis learned about it, and he was retired and despite that, called the sergeant up, got his voice-mail and left a voice-mail.

But that wasn't good enough, and he called him up and he spoke with him just to offer his condolences. And he was just saying to me that was really, truly quite the measure of a man.

Jeff Zeleny, Jeff Zeleny, let me ask you, A, about the waiver that would need to be involved because of active military rule and, B, what's the biggest criticism of him?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, there is a waiver that has to be ruled in and this is by both houses of Congress. This is an unusual exception where the House will actually also have a say here in this confirmation process.

There are definitely some people saying this needs to be looked at very carefully. Senator Gillibrand is saying she will oppose this. But, look, by and large, this is someone who has a stellar reputation. He's familiar to them. And there's every expectation he will work this through and answer questions on Capitol Hill in hearings on both sides of this.

At this point talking to leadership aides and others, most people don't think there will be a problem at all here, largely because he has so much credibility going in here. There are going to be more questions about the process of this, like is it a good idea to have someone who has only been out of the military for three years as opposed to the law of seven years, but I think it's hard to find him being blocked by this at this point, knowing what we know now.

BALDWIN: Gloria, here's what I'm wondering, because we know Trump likes generals and we also know if he's selecting General Mattis as secretary of defense and we know General Petraeus is one of the final few being considered for secretary of state. Do you think that would mean he would be out?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I sure think it makes it less likely.

I think that Trump likes the generals, but to have a few of them in your administration may be one too many. Maybe Petraeus would get another job. I think the question with General Petraeus always has been could he get confirmed, given the fact that he showed classified information to his then girlfriend?

And I think that that would be a very large issue for him in the confirmation process. People respect General Petraeus, they like General Petraeus, but given the way this campaign went and given the issue that classified information became in the campaign because of Hillary Clinton's e-mail server, I think it could be really problematic for Petraeus.

BALDWIN: I want to loop back to you just in a second on this thank you tour and Trump in Cincinnati. But, General Hertling, one more on this. Trump called General Mattis

the closest thing to General George Patton. And we all sort of thought about that 1970s biopic about the World War II general. Here's a clip and we will talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE C. SCOTT, ACTOR: All real Americans love the sting of battle. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What do you make of that comparison? I see you smiling.

HERTLING: It a terrible comparison, Brooke.

First of all, the entry to the movie "Patton" with George C. Scott that you just showed, that's the opening scene, is a compilation of a lot of speeches that Patton gave to his soldiers prior to the invasion.

[15:10:01]

So it's kind of a summary of a lot of things that Patton did. And sometimes generals and leaders have to be theatrical when they're talking to their soldiers and get them fired up in some ways, when they're going into very tough combat. That's what was portrayed by George C. Scott when he was playing Patton.

Mattis is certainly theatrical at times. He uses different means to impress upon his soldiers, but he's also very much like that and very a strategic thinker as well.

But that doesn't define who that man is. He's much more than a personification of George C. Patton. But it's interesting that Mr. Trump continues to use the example of Patton when he's describing good generals. I think it may be the only war movie Trump has scene, so that's why he keeps using it.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: That's really funny.

One more, Gloria. So, on to president-elect Trump himself, the beginning of the thank you tour last night, packed crowds, Cincinnati, vintage Trump on prompter, off prompter. What was your biggest takeaway and do you think this is the version of Trump we will see for the next four years?

BORGER: It is the Trump we're going to see for the next four years. It's the Trump we have seen for the last couple years.

My biggest takeaway was this is a real indication of how he is going to try and win the battle for the hearts and minds when he tries to get legislation passed in Congress. What he is going to do is, he's going to play the outside game. Maybe Mike Pence, his vice president, will play the inside game in Congress.

And if Donald Trump is going to try and get something through that Congress may be balking at or he needs public opinion on his side, he is going to take it directly to the American people. And I think he's not going to be a president who's going to be trapped inside the Oval Office because that's not where he's comfortable and that's not where he gets his energy from.

So I think what we're going to see, say, it's the repeal of Obamacare or whatever other issue, immigration reform, tax reform, I think he will take it directly to the American people and make his case that way. Ronald Reagan did it, but I think we will see Donald Trump do it a lot more than even Reagan did.

BALDWIN: Last question quickly, Jeff Zeleny. You heard the lock her up chants, a bit of gloating, so say Democrats. And he mentioned how fun it was to beat Hillary Clinton. And yet he says unity, unity, unity. Which is it?

ZELENY: I think he is going to try for unity, at least on things that suit him, but that is something that fires up his base.

He didn't say it in response to that. That would be a far bigger deal, I think, because he came out a week ago and says he has other things to worry about here. So, look, I think we have to give it a little bit of time here. This adjustment between campaign and governing is still very much under way, but his base still believes that.

The question is once he starts veering from his base, will they follow him or will there be a division here? He will be an unscripted president and that's why this will be very fascinating to watch.

BALDWIN: It will and to cover. Gloria, Jeff, General, thank you very much.

ZELENY: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up, raw emotions. Hear what happened when top aides to Donald Trump, Clinton advisers, Bernie Sanders folks met to talk about the campaign, part of a post-election discussion that's been happening for years. But has it erupted into a shouting match? The bitterness? We'll talk to two people who were in the room.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: You think this woman who has nothing in common with anybody...

(CROSSTALK)

JENNIFER PALMIERI, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'm not saying why you but won, that's the kind of campaign that was run. CONWAY: He flipped over 200 counties that President Obama won and Donald Trump just won, you think that's because of what you just said or because people are aren't ready for a woman president, really? How about it's Hillary Clinton? She doesn't connect with people? How about they have nothing in common with her?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:28]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

For the very first time since Donald Trump's stunning upset in this presidential election, we are hearing how the Clinton campaign really feels and really let me just set this whole thing up. Since 1972, the Harvard Institute of Politics has hosted this forum where top campaign aides meet for a postmortem discussion, essentially talking about what went right and depending on whose side you were on what went wrong.

It's also an opportunity for those campaigns to show respect for the process and for the outcome, but this year last couple of days, it was bitter and it got heated. Let me play this exchange. This is between Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway and Clinton's communications chief Jennifer Palmieri.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PALMIERI: If providing a platform for white supremacists makes me a brilliant tactician, I'm glad to have lost.

(CROSSTALK)

PALMIERI: I would rather lose than win the way you did.

CONWAY: Do you think I ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform? Are you going to look me in the face and tell me that?

PALMIERI: It did. Kellyanne, it did.

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: Do you think you could have just had a decent message for the white working-class voters? Do you think this woman who has nothing in common with anybody...

(CROSSTALK)

PALMIERI: I'm not saying that's why you won. But that's the kind of campaign that was run.

(CROSSTALK)

PALMIERI: He flipped over 200 counties that President Obama won and Donald Trump just won, you think that's because of what you just said or because people are aren't ready for a woman president, really? How about it's Hillary Clinton? She doesn't connect with people? How about they have nothing in common with her?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: How did this happen?

Let's talk to two people who were in the room, the two Jeffs. Jeff Zeleny is back with us, CNN senior Washington correspondent, and Bernie Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver.

So, great to have both of you on.

And, my goodness, where to begin. Jeff Zeleny, to you first. I mean, I know that this happened over the course of two days last night, multiple hours. When did thing take a turn for the worse?

ZELENY: Well, Brooke, that clip you played right there was around the conversation of Steve Bannon, of course, the chief strategist at the end of the campaign for the Trump campaign who is the former executive for Breitbart News.

And it was at that point that Jennifer Palmieri decided to make her argument about really the elephant in the room. Up until then, it was a pretty civil discussion here.

But I think one thing to keep in mind in all of this, it may look like that emotions were running out of control. That's partially true, but the Clinton campaign team came in there with a purpose of trying to really be the last time to defend Hillary Clinton.

[15:20:00]

This is viewed as kind of a first draft of history. I have gone to the last five of these since the since the Bush v. Gore one in 2000 as a younger reporter. I was with "The Chicago Tribune." I can you this was much more heated than even that one was. But the Clinton team was trying to get on the record for one last time some things that they wanted to just sort of clear the air on. But, look, Trump won, they lost, onward we go.

BALDWIN: OK.

Jeff Weaver, you were there. We know that we kept hearing Kellyanne Conway say why can't you acknowledge that she was just a bad candidate? What do you think?

JEFF WEAVER, FORMER BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, obviously I work for Bernie Sanders in the primary and thought he would have been the better candidate against Donald Trump. And history may -- I think shows that that was the case.

On the other hand, I do have to say that the Trump people really came in there with a lot of chips on their shoulders. They have just won, and I think it's incumbent on people who win to be a little bit magnanimous. They're personally very pleasant when you talk to them, but there's a tremendous amount of anger on their team.

And obviously on the Clinton team, I think there's obviously still a great sense of disappointment, a little bit of disbelief, frankly. But I just think that the Trump folks were really looking to spar in that room.

BALDWIN: I'm listening to you on the chip on the shoulder. And I know Democrats watched Trump last night in Cincinnati and they said he was gloating and they don't want to see that.

And I know she won the popular vote, but, you know, the fact that Kellyanne kept saying she was a bad candidate and I know when she was up against Bernie initially you had said there were concerns about Hillary Clinton's veracity and forthrightness. Do you think that that's part of it still?

WEAVER: I do think that there were voters had concerns about those issues, 100 percent.

But I would say this, Brooke. If you look how Hillary Clinton treated Bernie Sanders when she won the primary over him and the sort of gracious leadership that she exhibited compared to what we're seeing from the Trump folks, which is very much very angry, very gloating, very much in your face, I think those two side by side really tells a lot about that team and where they're headed.

BALDWIN: Let me play another exchange, Kellyanne Conway and Clinton's former chief strategist, Joel Benenson.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOEL BENENSON, HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Listen, listen, you guys won. That's clear, you won the Electoral College. That's the currency.

(CROSSTALK)

BENENSON: But let's also be honest. Don't act as if you have some popular mandate for your message. The fact of the matter is, is that more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump. So let's put in it total context.

CONWAY: And there was nothing that said the road to popular vote anywhere...

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: Hey, guys. We won. You don't have to respond. I mean, seriously, hold on. Why is there no mandate? You have lost 60 congressional seats since President Obama got there. You have lost more than a dozen senators, a dozen governors, 1,000 state legislators.

BENENSON: We're talking about this election, Kellyanne.

(CROSSTALK) CONWAY: No, no, no, you say there's no mandate.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Jeff Zeleny, what did you think the Clinton campaign seemed hung up on the most? Was there any -- at least you heard Joel say, yes, you won the Electoral College vote, and that is the currency.

But was there any concession as far as why they lost?

ZELENY: There wasn't as much as I think there probably should have been and I think, like, realistic there -- there will be going forward.

But just to give you a sense of the room for one second, Brooke, we're hearing audio from this only. And that is by design. This is intended to be basically an academic discussion at the Institute of Politics at Harvard's Kennedy School. So, it's intended to be a show for the cameras.

And I can tell you were sitting looking one another directly in the eye around a square table basically, the Trump people on one side, the Clinton people on the other side.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So, they were physically close, seated together.

ZELENY: Absolutely, maybe eight or 10 feet apart or so.

So the physical space was very close and I think that sort of hung over all of this. But, look, one thing the Clinton campaign was clearly trying to go after Trump on what they viewed as not necessarily a real victory.

But what I didn't hear as much of were things that the Clinton campaign, Hillary Clinton herself did wrong in this. In an earlier discussion on the Democratic primary campaign, which I was moderating with Jeff Weaver, I think there was actually more of an honest discussion, her e-mail, her paid speeches, other things.

So she came into the general election as a wounded candidate, so I think there was less discussion about her probably than there should have been and more discussion about Donald Trump. But the Clintons haven't accepted this. The Clinton team simply does not believe the right candidate won here. But, look, the election is over, elections have consequences and that's what we're about to see.

BALDWIN: Two of the Jeffs, Jeff Zeleny and Jeff Weaver, I appreciate both of you. I wish I could have been there. By the way, you can listen to the whole thing this Sunday, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER." Thank you so much.

Coming up next, it was supposed to be a holiday gathering among co- workers, but instead it was an event that turned into one of the most tragic events in our country's history. And now one year after the horror in San Bernardino, California, survivors of those attacks, they are speaking out.

You don't want to miss this conversation with our own Stephanie Elam.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:28]

BALDWIN: Don't miss the season finale of "PARTS UNKNOWN." Anthony Bourdain uncovers the real Rome. He reveals a vibrant, modern city behind the artifacts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)