Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Team Criticizes CIA Report on Russian Hacking Efforts Involving Presidential Election; Tape Released of Charleston Church Shooter's Confession; Rudy Giuliani Withdrawals from Consideration for Secretary of State; Fake News Stories Examined; Concerns for Conflicts of Interest for President-Elect Continue; Army-Navy Football Game to Commence. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired December 10, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:02] CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. So great to see you. I'm Christi Paul.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 10:00 here in the east and 7:00 out on the west coast. CNN Newsroom begins right now.

We're starting with president-elect Donald Trump offering up a pretty stunning rejection of U.S. intelligence following a new report from the CIA that Russia hacked the election to help Donald Trump win.

PAUL: Of course, this coming after President Obama orders a full review over all Russian election-related hacking. Trump's transition team is offering a sharp pushback here to claims of Russian espionage in this election in particular.

BLACKWELL: Here's the Trump team statement here regarding the U.S. intel community, quote, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction," just the first of only three sentences dealing with this in that statement.

This follows news CNN broke last week that the Obama administration is under pressure from Democrats to make public more intelligence about the hacking. It's now threatening to spark an early feud between America's top spy agencies and the Trump White House. Let's get now to our global affairs correspondent Elise Labott live from Washington. What are you learning about this now developing feud, let's call it.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, first, we need to be very clear about what we're talking about, Christi and Victor, what we're talking about and what we're not talking about. I don't think anybody is charging, including the intelligence community, that Russia actually affected the election results. When you read the statement by the transition, it says that the election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College Victories. That's true. I don't think anybody is charging that Donald Trump didn't win the election fair and square.

I think what the intelligence community is trying to lay out and what Congress -- members of Congress, particularly on the Democratic side, but also leading Republicans who are investigating this, is that Russia tried to meddle in the election. I think the concern is about the larger efforts by Russia to hack U.S. systems, to spy, to intrude on U.S. electoral systems like they're doing across Europe.

And so I think the concern here is that people don't know what the transition is asking about. Is there an isolated incident that the Trump transition, that president-elect Trump himself feels that there's a politicization of this particular issue and they're lashing out because they feel that the Intel community is saying that he didn't win the election fair and square? Or is he taking aim at these intelligence agencies that are going to be reporting to him not only under his command but helping him to inform him to make these monumental national security decisions?

If it's the former, I think that, you know, this will work itself out and they can move on. If it's the latter if there are larger concerns by president-elect Trump, his transition team, his cabinet members that will be coming in, that's going to set up a little bit more of an adversarial relationship, as the intelligence agencies try to help president-elect Trump make these national security decisions.

BLACKWELL: Yes, essentially if this reluctance is limited specifically to the Russian hacking. Elise Labott, thanks so much.

PAUL: So let's bring in CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic" and former CIA counterterrorism official, Phil Mudd, into this. With us also, Ron Brownstein with us as well. Gentleman, thank you so much. Ron, I want to get your take on what Elise was just saying. What do you think this is aiming at? Is this specifically the election? Did you get the sense that Trump feels that they're trying to delegitimatize his election?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, I think the intelligence community has reached two conclusions in succession. The first one was during the fall when they said it was Russian intelligence that was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee and John Podesta and all of the information provided to WikiLeaks that proved so destabilizing in the election.

And then second, more recently, according to "The New York Times" and "Washington Post," the CIA has concluded, the intelligence agency has concluded, that that intervention in the election was designed specifically to help Donald Trump win the election.

Now, they're not saying, as Elise noted, they're not saying that they tampered with the actual voting machines and the voting machinery, but they are saying that they engineered a systematic series of leaks to affect public opinion and affect the outcome of the election.

And what you have with Donald Trump right now is that he has not only rejected the second conclusion, but he has not even accepted the first conclusion. In interviews this week, he continued to belittle the idea that it was Russia behind these hacks. And with this statement I think is an enormous escalation of conflict from the Trump administration that essentially is saying the intelligence community has gotten all of this wrong. You can't trust them. They are the people who, you know, said there were weapons of mass destruction. So we are headed, I think, for an unpredictable, but I think

escalating conflict and confrontation over this issue, particularly with the president, President Obama, saying he wants a full review of exactly what Russia did and why before he leaves office.

[10:05:07] PAUL: Phil, when we talk about Donald Trump's response, saying these are the same people who said that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that was not -- that was a big blunder on the CIA's part. They don't want to relive it, by any means. But how do you think the people behind the scenes are feeling about this? Even though we know the CIA has just announced they will not publicly react to this statement.

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: If you're a CIA officer this is a really discouraging morning. Everybody remembers the WMD incident. That led to some of the reorganization in the intelligence community. I would be disturbed if I'm a CIA officer because I see the creation of facts during the campaign transition over to when this president-elect moves into the Oval Office.

We started this whole campaign partly on this fake news premise that the president of the United States, now, President Obama, was not a real American. He eventually had to produce his birth certificate. Now we're transitioning to say, I'm also -- this is president-elect Trump speaking, I'm also going to question facts when I get to the Oval Office. So if you're at the CIA, you're saying, I don't understand what's fact and what's fiction when I'm serving somebody who decides that he can create facts as he chooses to. I think this is really toxic.

PAUL: OK, so, Phil, let me just make a point to our viewers ear and just remind everybody that the people that Donald Trump -- the leaders in the CIA that Donald Trump was referring to in his statement are not the same leaders that are there now. Those people have all gone. There's new leadership in the CIA, including, obviously, the incoming CIA, Mike Pompeo. And I'm thinking, Phil, that puts him in a real predicament because you have to wonder, is he going to take the Trump angle here? I mean, here he's coming into this job, he's got a boss who doesn't seem to have full -- the full -- what do I want to say? To give credence to, I guess, the CIA. How is he going to balance those two things? It puts him in a really difficult position, does it not?

MUDD: It does. Remember, these people who are involved in Iraq are still there. I quit early. I left six years before my retirement. My peers are still running that organization and they were involved in the Iraq incident. So they will take this personally.

I think the question is not just what's happened over the past week in terms of what president-elect Trump has said about the CIA. It's what does, as you rightly point out, what does the CIA incoming director, Mike Pompeo do, assuming he's confirmed, when there's bad news about Russia in Syria, when there's bad news about whether or not Iran is complying with the nuclear agreement? Does Mr. Trump attack the messenger and does he undercut the message? The question going forward is, did fake news on the campaign trail, does that become fake intelligence now when the president-elect moves into the Oval Office.

PAUL: Ron, last word?

BROWNSTEIN: Real quick, whatever you think about Donald Trump, the idea of an antagonistic foreign nation intervening systemically to try to effect the outcome of the American election and potentially having a same plan and blueprint in place for France and Germany and other nations that are making critical decisions in 2017 that will affect the future of the western alliance ought to be alarming to Americans.

And I think you have some Republicans in Congress and in the Senate, particularly John McCain and Lindsey Graham, who want to systemically examine what exactly was done and what we can do about it, and that becomes much more difficult when the president-elect is basically denying the premise that it even happened at all.

PAUL: Ron Brownstein, Phil Mudd, thank you both so much. We appreciate your voice in this.

BROWNSTEIN Thank you.

BLACKWELL: And the president-elect's transition team is pushing back hard on this "New York Times" report that Russians hacked the RNC or influenced the U.S. election so Trump could win. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: Trump said that --

SEAN SPICER, RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I'm saying it, Michael! I just said it. Stop and let me -- OK, I just said it. Let me actually take yes for an answer. I said it. OK? I don't think, Donald Trump doesn't think, no one thinks that a foreign entity should be interfering with the U.S. election, bottom line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: New reports from the CIA say Russia hacked the U.S. election to help Trump win. President-elect Donald Trump's team rejecting those conclusions, putting president-elect at odds with America's top intelligence agency.

BLACKWELL: And that led to a pretty heated debate just a short time ago ion CNN's "SMERCONISH" between our Michael Smerconish and RNC communications director and strategist Sean Spicer. Here's a portion of that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: All right, I want to understand, I want to understand facts. You are telling me that you know to a certainty that the RNC was not hacked by the Russians or anyone else? And so to the extent, whether it's "The Post," "The Times," CNN, to the extent that anyone reports, including the CIA, that the RNC was hacked, Sean Spicer knows that to be a falsehood? SEAN SPICER, RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I know that we have worked

with intelligence agencies right now that are saying that we have not been hacked. Our own systems show that we have not been hacked. I am not a forensic, you know, computer person, so I can't say it with -- but I know that the intelligence agencies that we are working with tell us with certainty that we haven't been hacked. We've said it before and we've tried to work these media outlets to explain that to them and show them it. They've chose not to engage in that conversation. That's not my fault, Michael. And again, look at what the reports -- if they're so certain it happened, why won't they go on the record and say it? I don't understand it. It doesn't make any sense. Go out there and say --

SMERCONISH: OK, there's an obvious answer to that, which is -- there's an obvious to answer to that, I imagine, which is to say they don't want the Russians to know the way in which they've been able to assemble this case. Let me move to a slightly different aspect of this.

SPICER: No, that's not true. No, no, please don't make excuses for them.

SMERCONISH: I'm not making the excuses for anybody.

SPICER: Hold on, Michael, they came out and said with respect to the DNC and the DNC confirmed it, OK? So I don't understand why -- look, there's questions on that side. We have been willing to talk to people to show that it wasn't true, and people are willing to ignore it. So on the flip side, there was a difference, when it came to what happened on the DNC. And I'm just trying to put the facts out there and somehow, it's, you must be lying. You must not be accepting the facts.

SMERCONISH: I didn't say that to you. I didn't say that to you. Sean, different aspect of this --

SPICER: The implication is clear. No, Michael, the implication -- hold on, Michael, with all due respect. You impute -- you said, why won't we accept the facts and we're suiting up and taking our position? No. I'm actually trying to get the facts out. I'm trying to make reporters understand what's really happening and making -- actually bringing them into the process --

SMERCONISH: No, I'm making a different point. I'm actually making a different point. I'm casting doubt on whether Sean Spicer could definitively know the answer to the question of the extent of the Russian hack, and my frustration is at the idea that until this thing is fully developed, already president-elect Trump is saying, move on, folks, there's nothing to see here. But I need to ask you an additional question --

SPICER: No, hold on --

SMERCONISH: I want to address this --

SPICER: Michael! SMERCONISH: I'm also concerned -- come on! I'm being fair to you.

But I got to get a word in every once in a while. I'm also troubled by the idea that my president-elect, he's going to be all of our president, is already throwing under the bus the intelligence community with whom he's going to have to work on life-and-death matters. Wasn't that a troubling thing to do at 9:34 last night in that --

SPICER: No!

SMERCONISH: -- in that very --

SPICER: No! Michael, "The New York Times," in their story, said they based their conclusion on the fact that the RNC was hacked the, OK? If the RNC was not hacked, then that casts doubt on their conclusions! I don't understand why this is that difficult to understand. If you're basing something based on --

SMERCONISH: Regardless of whether the RNC was hacked, and that would be a big and new development, I think we know to a certainty, given Podesta and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, that the DNC was hacked. Why aren't we, as Americans, upset about the fact that a foreign, hostile actor, apparently, put its thumb on the scale in our election? And why doesn't Donald Trump want to get to the bottom of that as he takes office? That's the issue.

SPICER: Well, first of all, no -- OK, there's a couple of things. One, I am outraged. I don't think any foreign entity, any individual --

SMERCONISH: Well, why don't you say that? And why didn't Trump say that? I haven't heard it.

SPICER: I'm saying it! That's what I just said -- stop and let me -- OK, I just said it. Let me actually take yes for an answer. I said it, OK? I don't think, Donald Trump doesn't think, no one thinks that a foreign entity should be interfering with the U.S. election, bottom line, full stop, I said it.

Now let's get to the next thing. What proof does anyone have that they affected the outcome? Because I've heard zero, OK? So show me what facts that actually show that anything undermined that election. Donald Trump won with 306 electoral votes, 2,300 counties, 62 million Americans voted for him. So what proof do you have or does anyone have that any of this affected the outcome of this election?

SMERCONISH: I'm just an American who's trying to discern all that I'm reporting on --

SPICER: No, then answer the question, Michael!

SMERCONISH: Yes.

SPICER: You're asking me -- show me what -- give me one fact that an outcome was changed? SMERCONISH: Ask Debbie Wasserman -- I can't say that it impacted the

ultimate outcome, but that it took place, go ask Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

SPICER: Thank you! Thank you!

SMERCONISH: To be continued. I do appreciate your being here. I really do. By the way, I would love to talk to your boss on this. He's a watcher, he tweets about my show. Mr. President-elect, I'll treat you with dignity and respect. Come here and let me ask you these questions. Thank you, Sean! I do appreciate you.

SPICER: Thank you, Michael.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: All right, again, that was just a portion of the conversation. Joining us now, Michael Smerconish. Michael, there was a lot of heat there, but I want to get to the light of that conversation, where Sean Spicer says that -- and I wrote it down here, "no foreign entities should be interfering with the U.S. election." And then he goes to the point of, what proof is there that it impacted to outcome? Between those two there there is this canyon that, from your perspective, is the Trump transition team ignoring? Even if it did not switch the outcome, aren't they at least curious about it or think that someone should get to the bottom of what the impact was and actually who was involved?

SMERCONISH: I think you are so right, Victor, you have nailed it. Where is the curiosity? Even if the ultimate outcome of the election was not impacted, where is the curiosity from an incoming commander in chief as to whether a foreign hostile actor had its thumb on the scale in an American election, you know, one of the most sacred aspects of our society, our ability to go out and to peacefully assemble and elect a president of the United States?

And Sean Spicer ultimately said what needed to be said, which is that they abhor the idea of any kind of foreign involvement. But Victor, why didn't the statement say that last night? Why didn't Donald Trump make that point first before then, as I put it, throwing under the bus the intelligence community?

BLACKWELL: Three sentences there. Just mentioning the intelligence blunder from -- that led up to the Iraq war, and then just says here, "It's time now to move on and make America great again." You know, the president yesterday ordered this full review. I assume it's safe to say now that even if that comes out before January 20th, that's not going anywhere in a Trump White House.

SMERCONISH: I assume that's also the reason why the Obama White House, behind the scenes, has wanted to frame this issue and do it now. This is just my speculation, Victor, but my hunch is that President Obama wanted to make sure that before he leaves office on the 20th that this thing is in the public view, because they probably have zero confidence that unless it's there now, it will get made public in January. So I think the timing of this is all very deliberate, on the part of the change in administrations.

[10:20:18] BLACKWELL: Now, we showed just five minutes of this conversation. I think it went on for maybe 10. What was the other headline that came out for you or other headlines that came out of this conversation for you?

SMERCONISH: Well, I think the headline that came out for me was him saying, we know we weren't hacked. And respectfully, I don't know how even he as the communications head of the RNC could know what the CIA knows about the Russian involvement. I mean, we're all trying to read the tea leaves from the sidelines and rely on Elise Labott and some other excellent reporters, but it's hard for the public to really know. So I kind of question how Sean Spicer can be definitive and say, well, we know we weren't hacked.

And by the way, even if the RNC wasn't hacked, we know several things. We know that John Podesta's e-mails are out there for everybody to see. We know that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is out of a job at the DNC. Something went on here, and I'm frustrated by the lack of curiosity of the president-elect to want to get to the bottom of it.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And we know that back in September, the chairman of the house homeland security committee, Michael McCaul, who said on the situation room, they've not only hacked into the DNC, but also into the RNC. He later pulled that back, but from a member of congress, the head of the homeland security committee, no less, suggesting there was that RNC hack, again, pulled that back. But Michael Smerconish, it was an amazing interview and hopefully we get some more answers over the next couple of days.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Victor. Thank you very much.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

Meanwhile, the search for secretary of state still going on. We know now that Rudy Giuliani's name is off the list. Donald Trump tweeted this morning, "Rudy Giuliani, one of the finest people I know and former great mayor of NYC just took himself out of consideration for State."

PAUL: And according to "The New York Times," Donald Trump may seriously be considering Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson. Let's listen to what Giuliani said this morning on FOX News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, (R) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Rex Tillerson is an excellent choice. I think, Josh Bolton, had I been president in 2008 I probably would have appointed him secretary of state. Josh Bolton I think is superior. I think Mitt Romney, I voted for him, I supported him. I thought he would have been a much better president than Barack Obama. But I do think like Mike Huckabee does, he should apologize or at least he should explain what he meant by some of the comments, which hurt me greatly, when I was campaigning for my friend, Donald Trump. I think, actually, Donald is less troubled by it -- the campaign

requested that we withhold it. Plus they didn't accept it immediately. They said they wanted to keep me in the running. I said, I don't want to be, but they said they wanted to keep me in the running. So we agreed that I'll wait until you're ready. When you're ready, then we can announce it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: There are eight people on Donald Trump's secretary of state list right now. And I hope that we'll hear something this week.

BLACKWELL: They're supposed to make more announcements in just the next few days.

Next, I want to get to this eerie confession from the accused mass shooter who targeted a South Carolina church. Dylann Roof laughing while telling the FBI, "I did it," and admitting on tape that he's guilty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you consider yourself a white supremacist?

DYLANN ROOF: I do consider myself a white supremacist, sure. White people are superior. If that's what you mean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:27:23] PAUL: Well, it's really a chilling confession. Accused mass murder, Dylann Roof, wasted no time admitting gunned down a group of worshippers.

BLACKWELL: You know that roof is accused of slaughtering nine people at the historic Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina. You remember that terrible day. Surveillance video here from 2015 captured Roof walking into that bible study with a gun on his waist, then you'll see him in a moment here, slowly leaving, gun in hand. Let's see. Yes, there's the video. You can see it there in his right hand. Let's go now to our Polo Sandoval, who has more on this disturbing confession.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Victor, Christi. Good morning to you. Yesterday for the first time jurors in the federal case against Dylann Roof had an opportunity to see that confession video, the interview that was done between federal agents and the 22-year-old self-described white supremacist. In that footage, you can see and hear him say why he did it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROOF: I went to that church in Charleston and I did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did what? Did you shoot them? ROOF: Yes.

SANDOVAL: The confession video is overexposed, but Dylann Roof's motive is crystal clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So your deal, so is it -- is it like --

ROOF: To agitate racial relations.

SANDOVAL: Seemingly consumed by a racist theory, Roof told officials that he researched black-on-white crime during the George Zimmerman trial. It was then he started down a path towards hate crimes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you consider yourself a white supremacist?

ROOF: I do consider myself a white supremacist, sure. White people are superior, if that's what you mean.

SANDOVAL: Church surveillance video this week shows Roof entering the house of worship in June of last year. He was inside for about 45 minutes, then Roof peeks his head out, a Glock .45 pistol in his hand. He then slowly walks out the door of the church.

ROOF: I was in absolute awe that nobody was out there after I shot that many folks. When I walked out that door, I peeked out the door, I thought there was going to be somebody there ready to shoot me.

SANDOVAL: Roof was prepared to kill himself but didn't when he saw no flashing lights, he told officials. In the video confession, Roof laughs occasionally. And when agents tell him he murdered nine people, he appears shocked.

ROOF: There wasn't even nine people there. Are you guys lying to me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. We're not.

SANDOVAL: Dylann Roof also wrote a 2000-word statement with photos and posted it online the afternoon of the shooting.

[10:30:00] In it, Roof said he thought black people were stupid and quote, "inferior to whites and violent." He goes on to say, "We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the Internet. Well, someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me."

Charged with 33 federal counts, including hate crimes, Roof's defense team has conceded that he committed the slayings and has instead focused on trying to spare him the death penalty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: Dylann Roof has shown no emotion during the first three days of this trial. We have watched as he sits at the defense table with no emotion as we hear some of the most heart-rending testimony from at least one survivor who was at the church that summer day. Meanwhile, testimony expected to continue come Monday with more investigators who collected some of the evidence, both in Roof's vehicle and in the church. Victor, Christi?

BLACKWELL: All right, Polo, thank you so much.

Still to come, the unprecedented businessman in chief, president-elect Donald Trump, facing criticism over his apparent reluctance to separate himself from his businesses.

PAUL: Also, the fake news epidemic and the very real consequences that come with it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: It's 34 minutes past the hour. I'm so glad to see you. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good morning to you.

PAUL: This morning, president-elect Donald Trump is tweeting that the search for secretary of state is still ongoing, that Rudy Giuliani is out, but according to "The New York Times," Trump may be seriously considering Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson. Trump has a busy day ahead. He's headed to the Army-Navy game in Baltimore soon. While there, he'll be meeting CIA director designate Mike Pompeo. All of this a day after he dismissed reports the intelligence community found that the Russian government was behind cyber-attacks during the presidential elections specifically to help him win.

[10:35:01] BLACKWELL: Well, a statement came after President Obama ordered a full review into the cyber-attacks. Russia insists there is no evidence of hacking.

Meanwhile, the president-elect is already going back on one of his campaign promises that he will have Hillary Clinton investigated for using a private e-mail server. Listen to this exchange between the crowd and the president-elect at a Victory rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT: That plays great before the election. Now we don't care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Even though president-elect Donald Trump is getting ready to move into the White House, he does plan to hold his executive producer position on "Celebrity Apprentice." His senior adviser Kellyanne Conway told CNN just yesterday that he may work on the show during his spare time. Trump tweeting out this morning, he will, quote, "devote zero time to "The Apprentice." Here's CNN's Cristina Alesci with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's never been a case like this.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How do you describe the complications of having the first billionaire president?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT: I'm very proud of my company. As you two know, I built a very great company.

ALESCI: In a word, unprecedented, an unprecedented business empire built by the commander in chief, an unprecedented opportunity for corruption at the highest levels, and a leader with an unprecedented disdain for following political norms.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Everyone Republican nominee since Richard Nixon who at one time was under an audit has released their tax returns.

ALESCI: Traditions and not the law have guided presidents on how to deal with their finances in the past.

JAN BARAN, REPUBLICAN ETHICS LAWYER: The law clearly does not apply to the president or the vice president. Legally, the president of the United States doesn't have to do anything.

ALESCI: Back in 1983 President Reagan asked the Office of Government Ethics a question. Could the first movie star president still take part in the entertainment industry? The answer, legally, conflicts of interest laws don't apply to the president. But, quote, "As a matter of policy, he should conduct himself as if they did." That principle has led to former presidents selling off their assets, wanting to avoid questions about their motives.

But now, the name of the president of the United States will appear on hotels, condos, golf courses, and television credits for the "Celebrity Apprentice".

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Presidents have a right to do things in their spare time or their leisure time.

ALESCI: Trump is set to announce on Thursday that he will leave his business.

TRUMP: My kids will run it.

ALESCI: Still, sources say, there's no indication that the businessman in chief will fully shed his assets. In fact, a bipartisan coalition of ethics experts said that, quote, "The plan will create the appearance that president-elect Trump and his family are using the presidency to enrich themselves." The group is calling for Trump to sell his business and put the money in a blind trust controlled by a non-family member.

TRUMP: I have Ivanka and Eric and Don sitting there. Run the company, kids. Have a good time.

ALESCI: A good time is exactly what Trump critics fear. And that's why Trump's announcement will likely lead to more questions than answers.

Cristina Alesci, "CNN Money," New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Well, some call it fake. Others call it propaganda. Whatever you call it, it's not real. But that's not stopping some people from peddling this artificial, this fake news. We now know there have been real-world violent consequences, but did it affect the election?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:42:10] BLACKWELL: Fake news stories that are so popular online can have more than just political consequences. They could even be potentially deadly.

PAUL: Well, that was proven when an armed gunman stormed a pizza place in Washington, pointed an assault rifle at an employee, and began firing after that employee ran away. Authorities say the suspect claimed he was there to investigate the conspiracy theory pizza-gate.

BLACKWELL: But even after that incident, the son of Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, Donald Trump's pick for national security adviser, went on twitter and suggested that pizza-gate conspiracy theory was true. Michael Flynn junior tweeted, "Until pizza-gate is proven to be false, it will remain a story. The left seems to forget the Podesta emails and the many coincidences tied to it."

PAUL: I want to bring in Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent and host of CNN's "Reliable Sources," and Brendan Nyhan, political science professor at Dartmouth College. Gentlemen, thank you both so much for being here. Brian, I want to start with you, because there are a lot of people who agree with Flynn Jr. and these notions that these theories should be considered true until proven false. What do you think of them?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": This is a more insidious version of believing that aliens crash landed at Roswell and insisting until we prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it didn't happen that it must have happened. That might be humorous, you see sci-fi movies made about aliens. But this stuff, this type of fake news conspiracy theory has much more serious consequences.

We saw that in Washington this week, at Comet Ping-Pong, the pizza shop. I think we can continue to see situations like this where people want to buy into false narratives and do not want to be shown otherwise that it's not true. That's not just a problem for newsrooms. It's a problem for society because it's about what we want to believe.

PAUL: And Brendan, I want to get to you, because the owner of this restaurant says they've been targeted for weeks because of that fake story. Let's listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES ALEFANTIS, OWNER, COMET PING-PONG: So, essentially, they would go into our social media accounts, and they would take photo grabs that are on my Instagram of my friend's children or of my associate's children and post them around thousands and thousands of fake news sites and on Reddit and on YouTube and use these images of happily playing innocent children as proof of some kind of human trafficking scheme.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Brendan, how expansive do you think this really is?

BRENDAN NYHAN, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, DARTMOUTH: It's a very serious problem. People are likely to believe things that they would like to be -- they want to be true. And the Internet makes it possible to reach people more efficiently with these conspiracy theories than ever before. It's not new for people to believe in conspiracy theories, but they do now find things online more quickly and spread them more efficiently. And all we need to do, unfortunately, is have that one person who sees a conspiracy and wants to take action, and that can put people in danger, like the folks at that pizza restaurant.

[10:45:02] PAUL: Brian, the chief operating officer for Facebook, Sheryl Sandberg, of course says social media sites need to do more to limit fake news on their sites. Let's listen to her here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERYL SANDBERG, FACEBOOK COO: Well, there have been claims that it swayed the election. We don't think it swayed the election, but we take that responsibility really seriously, and we're looking at things like working with third parties, helping to label false news, doing the things we can do to make it clearer what's a hoax on Facebook.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: So Brian, the question is, who should be policing the truth?

STELTER: You know, I'm at a journalism conference in Phoenix this weekend with some Facebook people, Google people, networking people, and journalists. I'll tell you what, this is the number one topic people are talking about. It is a huge challenge, a huge struggle that people at Facebook, people at Google will tell you it's the top priority to try to figure out how to better battle some of these fake stories.

But, you know, this is bigger than just a piece of fake news, right? There was a piece of fake news written about me this week, misquoting me. There's nothing I can do about that as an individual who sees that story on Google. But it's bigger than that. It's about trust and a breakdown in trust. Some people want to believe fake stories or don't know whether they can because they feel like they can't trust real news. So there are some deeper trust issues here that we've got to wrestle with. And I think fake news is a symptom of that much bigger disease.

PAUL: Brendan, what do you say to that? And what is the solution? NYHAN: There's no easy fix. People like information that confirms

their predispositions. That's what's driving a lot of these stories circulating if worry I have is that Google and Facebook have created a marketplace that's attractive to entrepreneurs. We're seeing Macedonian teenagers starting fake news websites to earn extra spending money. So we need to take seriously these platforms are weaponizing these tendencies of human psychology, making it attractive to people to produce more fake news. We don't want Google and Facebook policing political speech, but these 100 percent fake stories are problem that I think we can address more effectively.

PAUL: It can be seen as a very delicate line by some. Brian Stelter and Brendan Nyhan, thank you both so much. We appreciate you being here. Thank you, gentlemen.

And don't forget, you can watch Brian's show, "Reliable Sources," 11:00 a.m. eastern time right here on CNN on Sundays.

BLACKWELL: All right, a big game in Baltimore this afternoon, the annual Army-Navy game. Bragging rights on the line, and Coy Wire is there.

COY WIRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm here with Isabel and Hanna. And to quote Dwight Eisenhower, the 34th president of the United States, "The Army and Navy are the best of friends for 364-and-a-half days of the year. But on one Saturday afternoon, we are the worst of enemies." We're going to take a little closer look into this historic rivalry coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:51:37] BLACKWELL: Army and Navy will meet on the gridiron for the 117th time this afternoon.

PAUL: Coy Wire is already on the field. Coy!

WIRE: I'm here with some new friends. They're getting ready for the game, guys. Good morning to you. This game seething with tradition. Ten presidents have seen this game. President-elect Donald Trump will be here today to watch this game. He's produced some pretty good football players, too. Five Heisman-winning trophy quarterbacks have come from this game. We caught up with one of them just moments ago, Roger Staubach. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER STAUBACH, 1963 HEISMAN TROPHY WINNER: I know it's special for the midshipmen around the country and the cadets, obviously. Which I was a plebe, it was a big deal coming to the Army-Navy game, my first one. But around the country, I think the love, care, and concern we have for our military today is where it should be, and it's really good. And I think this game is a representative of the services.

And even if you didn't go to the academies, when you're in the service you relate to it, because we're all one team. And so I think it's special when you have an Army-Navy game to be able to tie that into the love we have our military today. I think it's really healthy compared to what it was after a Vietnam. It was really a disappointment that we have some issues there -- it shouldn't have been about the military. But today that's not true and I think this game represents the best in all of us.

WIRE: Now, you were an eventual two-time super bowl champion, but you chose to first serve your nation before you went on to your professional career. Why was that important to you?

STAUBACH: Well, when I made a commitment at the naval academy, I was going to serve -- at the time I had a four-year obligation, and so it was an easy decision. I was going to make sure I did what I said I was going to do there. And I had that requirement and I stayed -- and I really had a great experience at the naval academy. I sure wasn't going to leave early to go play football. So it worked out. I got a chance to play for the Cowboys after four years and happened to be on a good team. And Don Merritt decided to retire, so I was a backup quarterback for a while. So I was able to have a great time in the service. I'm part of the military fraternity and also got a chance to play football again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIRE: The future defenders of our nation playing in one of the most spectacular displays of college football you will ever see. Game time is just about four hours away. Victor, Christi, it's going to be a good one.

PAUL: Have fun with it, coy. Thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: All right, next, the "CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute," we meet the people making a difference.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:24] PAUL: This weekend, CNN Heroes salutes 10 people who put other people first all year long.

BLACKWELL: The tenth annual all-star tribute airs live tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are the kind, the caring. They are the strong and the brave. They are the ones who see a need, fill a void, make a difference.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm trying to give them all the opportunities that they deserve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has become my life. I don't ever want to do anything else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't do it for themselves. They do it for all the rest of us. They are a reminder of what's good in this world and what it truly means to be a hero.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We give them the foundation from which they can thrive. It's a feeling of family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have transformed the lives of thousands of children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow night, CNN presents a very special live event, the 10th annual "CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight we're gathered to celebrity extraordinary men and the best of what humanity has to offer.

Reporter: Join host Anderson Cooper and special co-host, Kelly Ripa, as we honor 10 extraordinary people. The 10th annual "CNN Heroes All- Star Tribute," live tomorrow night at 8:00 on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: I can't watch without crying. And they always make me remember what is possible.

BLACKWELL: Yes, there are some great stories. Looking forward to watching that tomorrow night. Hopefully get up there next year, we should be there to --

PAUL: I know. I want to be there. Yes, hint, hint, anybody listening.

Hey, listen, we hope you go out there and make some great memories the today. We appreciate your company here.

BLACKWELL: There's a lot more ahead in the next hour of CNN Newsroom. We turn it over now to our colleague Boris Sanchez sitting in for Fredricka Whitfield.

[11:00:00] BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: You guys are kind of my heroes. You deserve some hero awards yourself.

(LAUGHTER)