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Rex Tillerson Top Candidate for Trump's Secretary of State; Fallout from Trump Slamming CIA; Charleston Mass Shooter's Confession; Carl Icahn Talks Stock Market, Economy; Fallout from Trump Slamming CIA. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired December 10, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[15:00:12] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
We have a lot of news to get to this hour. President-elect Donald Trump is taking on U.S. intelligence agencies, agencies that he will oversee very soon. In a stunning move, his transition team slamming the CIA over reports that they believe russian hackers intervened in the election, specifically in an effort to help Donald Trump win. Trump's transition team reading a terse, unsigned statement, which reads, quote, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victory in history. It is now time to move on and make America great again."
As for the CIA, they are not commenting. Trump's assertions that these CIA teams are the same as 13 years ago, with the failed intelligence, that's just not true. Russia has denied any wrongdoing.
And the Republican National Committee slamming the CIA's assertions as well.
More on that in just a moment.
But first, CNN's Ryan Nobles joins me from Baltimore. That's where Donald Trump's plane has landed. He will attend the Army/Navy college football game.
You just had a moment to speak with John McCain about some very pressing issues. What did he say?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, we talked to Senator McCain about the selection of secretary of state for President-elect Trump. There are reports, CNN reporting that Rex Tillerson, the CEO at Exxon- Mobil, is at the top of the list right now. That's who Trump is seriously considering appointing to that top diplomatic post.
Senator McCain is a harsh critic of Russia and Vladimir Putin, in particular. Tillerson has a very close relationship with Putin and the russian government.
McCain, who is a Republican, says he has concerns about that relationship with Putin, and it could lead him to casting a "no" vote for confirmation. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R), ARIZONA: I have concerns of reports of his relationship with Vladimir Putin, who is a thug and a murder. But that's the -- we will have hearings and that issue, and other issues concerning him will be examined and then that's the time to make up your mind as to whether to vote yes or no.
NOBLES: So what kind of questions would ask you Rex Tillerson that would make you feel comfortable about him in a role like that?
MCCAIN: His view of Vladimir Putin and his role in the world. For example, the fact that Boris Anymoresauf (ph), who is a leader of the opposition, was murdered on the orders, I believe, of Vladimir Putin in the shadow of the Kremlin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: Tillerson clearly has a close relationship with Putin and the Russian government. And as CEO of Exxon-Mobil, he helped negotiate a deal with Russia's largest oil company of which the russian government has the biggest investment in. So, these will be tough questions for Tillerson if he is the person that Donald Trump picks.
The transition telling us today, Poppy, that no announcement are going to be made today, we shouldn't expect a formal announcement for secretary of state. But this will be a big controversy if and when the appointment does happen -- Poppy?
HARLOW: It's interesting. Also, Rex Tillerson is man, as you know, Ryan Nobles, who spoke just a few years ago about this, spoke against some of those sanctions against Russia. He also received in 2016 the Russian Order of Friendship. So, a lot of questions there.
Before I let you go, though, Mitt Romney, still right up there on the list? Still in the running?
NOBLES: Well, our sources are telling us that Tillerson is clearly at the top, but we are told that Mitt Romney has not been completely ruled out. And that chief of staff, Reince Priebus, is still rushing for him. Tillerson was at Trump Tower this morning so he clearly appears to be the leading candidate.
HARLOW: Ryan Nobles, have fun at the game. Thanks for being with us.
NOBLES: All right.
HARLOW: The Republican National Committee is siding with the president-elect. The chief communications director, Sean Spicer, casting doubt on the intel claims saying, new reports that say that the RNC was also hacked, likely by the Russians, that those reports are wrong. Here is the exchange from Michael Smerconish.
SEAN SPICER, CHIEDF COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, REPUBLCIAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I believe that there are people within the agencies that are upset with the outcome of the election and are pushing a personal agenda. The facts don't add up. The idea the media immediately sides with these unnamed sources is a problem.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: You are telling me you know to a certainty that the RNC was not hacked by the Russians or anyone else? And so, to the extent, whether it's "The Post," "The Times," CNN, to the extent that anyone reports that the RNC was hacked, Sean Spicer knows that to be a falsehood.
SPICER: I know that we have worked with intelligence agencies right now that are saying we have not been hacked. Our own systems show we have not been hacked. I'm not a forensic computer person. I can't say it with - but I know the intelligence agencies that we are working with tell us with certainly that we haven't been hacked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:05:29] HARLOW: I'm joined by Jill Dougherty, in Moscow, a global fellow for the Woodrow Wilson Institute and CNN's former Moscow bureau chief; and also with us, Juliette Kayyem, a CNN national security analyst.
Thank you, guys, for being here.
Juliette, of course, also serves on the Department of Homeland Security Advisory Board.
Jill, let me begin with you.
You are in Moscow. The russian government denying any wrongdoing. What is the reaction to all of this from the russian people tonight?
JILL DOUGHTERY, GLOBAL FELLOW, WOODROW WILSON INSTITUTE & FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: The people would tend to think and follow what their government is saying, because that's the media they are watching. You have to say the russian government isn't specifically answering these charges. They have done this ever since all of this came up.
Essentially, what they are saying is, you don't have any proof. This is the same -- in fact, here is a statement from the kremlin, "No new conclusions, no evidence based upon this." In essence, what they are saying, Poppy, is you have to provide the proof. Where is the proof? Show us. That's a real challenge to the administration, because then it forces the administration to say, here is how we know it because here is how we collect data, secret data, and get information from you. They are not going to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
DOUGHTERTY: So, the Russians have done this all along.
HARLOW: Jill, isn't there also this issue of how Russia tends to go about navigating things like this, the use of a middleman, a go- between, right, so there is no direct evidence, perhaps, of a kremlin order saying delivered this hacked information to WikiLeaks, et cetera?
DOUGHERTY: It is kind of a murky field. It's true that there are people who don't specifically work for the government, but -- let's say are government employees, but they provide services for the government. That's why when you get senior officials who would say we do not do hacking on a national level, technically, they could be right, because they do have these middlemen. It is a very murky world, as we all know.
HARLOW: Juliette, there are two scenarios at play when you look at the Trump statement, which we can pull up again, basically saying, look, these are the same folks that failed on the intelligence in the weapons of mass destruction. We need to move on. There are two issues at play. Either the president-elect is questioning the veracity of the intelligence or the president-elect is saying that the intelligence agencies he is going to oversee are politicizing it. Both are concerning, no?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. Both are probably inaccurate. Let's just put it bluntly. First of all, the intelligence agencies during the Bush administration were the ones saying, we are not sure about the conclusiveness of WMD in Iraq. It was ironically the politics that drove the war in Iraq. President- elect Bush (sic) is going to war with his intelligence agencies before he gets there. To just talk about the politics of the intelligence agencies, there are not a lot of lefties in the CIA. If you took a poll, they are probably left of center. There are something like 20,000 employees of CIA that doesn't include covert assets, maybe a couple dozens of them are political. Brennan, who now runs the CIA, also worked for President Bush. That's the way our intelligence agencies are and the way the American public needs them to be.
So, the statements are not only factually inaccurate, they really do pose a challenge for America's security once Trump becomes the president, which is, who do you trust? Who is going to give you the information? Do you believe anything that the intelligence agencies are telling you? If you don't, what is going to be the basis of information? It's unprecedented. And the seriousness of his tweet or his statement can't be underestimated.
HARLOW: Jill -- to both of you, really -- and, Jill, to you first.
When you listen to the last time that Donald Trump held a press conference, let's go back to July 27, and spoke about this, here is what he said regarding hacking. Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Russia, if you are listening, I hope you are able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Jill, after that, he said he was completely joking, that the media got it completely wrong. But all of this and his past comments about, wouldn't it be better if the United States had a closer, warmer relationship with Russia, comes back to the surface.
[15:10:20] DOUGHERTY: I think, really, when you look at this, the Russians had a vested interest in helping Donald Trump, because, number one, President Putin really dislikes Hillary Clinton, to put it mildly. He blames her for starting the demonstrations in the streets here in Moscow back in 2012. It is quite personal.
On the other side, Donald Trump says good things about Mr. Putin, about Russia. Also, they look at the world, I think, in many similar ways. They are both kind of, real politique. Let's do a deal, forget about all of the mamby-shamby human rights and all of that. They want to work together right now, let's say, on terrorism. It is a very black and white business type of deal. That is what President Putin likes. He sees a guy in Donald Trump with whom he can really do business.
HARLOW: I have to be very quick on this. But, Juliette, is that a fair analysis? Jill is saying putting Putin and Trump on the same level page when it comes to things like human rights?
KAYYEM: Yes, or at least international human rights, not certainly in the United States. What we have to be clear about is what this new investigation announced by President Barack Obama is about. It is about whether there was collusion between President Trump's campaign and the Russians, or whether we have new evidence that the Russians were talking amongst themselves about picking Trump. That's why this investigation has to go forward. Because in either case, --r there is a potential third theory, which is that they have something on Trump which hasn't been disclosed yet. In all three cases --
HARLOW: Which there is no evidence of that.
KAYYEM: -- it matters to American democracy.
HARLOW: At this point in time.
KAYYEM: So the three theories -- the three theories of this case --
HARLOW: I've got to --
KAYYEM: -- have got to be.
HARLOW: You will be back with me. I have to get a break in.
Guys, thank you very much,
Jill Dougherty, from Moscow, thank you.
Juliette, thank you, as well.
Much more ahead this hour. First of all, from the interview that you must see with RNC chief strategist and communications director, Sean Spicer. CNN host, Michael Smerconish, will join me live. That's at the top of the next hour.
Also, ahead, chilling confession. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DYLANN ROOF, ACCUSED MASS SHOOTER: I had to do it because somebody had to do something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: The disturbing admission from the young man on trial for murdering nine people at point-blank range in that South Carolina church. That is ahead.
Also, later, billionaire investor, Carl Icahn, a big Trump supporter, says the stock market is on the rise because of Donald Trump, but he also says the rally is, in his words, "a little bit overdone."
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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[15:16:23] HARLOW: A chilling admission in the Charleston massacre trial of Dylann Roof. The shooting spree killed nine people at a historically black church. These nine lives brutally taken that day. Jurors heard the taped interrogation of the admitted gunman as he confessed with a laugh. During the video played in court on Friday, the defendant can be heard telling the FBI he is a white supremacist, and he, quote, "had to do it."
CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us in Charleston where prosecutors are seeking the death penalty.
Polo, the approach of the defense, what is it? Will they call witnesses?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At this point, the defense has offered very little argument to the account the government has presented at least the last three days of this federal trial.
To answer that second question, it doesn't seem to be they plan to present any witnesses. So, we will have to see, if, in fact, that changes in the days ahead.
But the main concern here for Dylann Roof's defense is to save the client's life. They initially had offered a guilty plea in exchange for a life sentence. The government quickly declining that offer.
So what we've seen in the last several days is an opportunity for both sides here, obviously, for the defense to try to convince a jury to send him to prison the rest of his life as opposed to the death penalty, and with respect to prosecutors, it's an opportunity to lay out all of the evidence including the very chilling videotape that was heard for the very first time in open court yesterday, this interrogation video, when Dylann Roof told a group of federal agents, saying, I'm guilty. I did it -- Poppy?
HARLOW: Polo, I know you have been in the courtroom. You have heard all of this play out. They played the tape confession for everyone there. We also know some of the family members that lost loved ones in this massacre were the courtroom. How did they react? What did you see from the defendant?
SANDOVAL: Obviously, it was very emotional for the individuals there watching the proceedings, including family members themselves.
As for Dylann Roof, there was no reaction. He simply sat at the defense with this blank stare, not saying anything. No emotion on his face as they played that video for the jury.
I want to play a small portion of it, Poppy. It provides a window to what took place that unholy summer day here in the city of Charleston. This particular portion of the interview, he is explaining to federal agents how he did it, how he walked into that fellowship hall and began opening fire. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: If I told you nine people died last night, how would that make you feel?
ROOF: Nine? There wasn't even nine people there.
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: There was a little bit over nine.
It's hard when you're looking under stables -- (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: You said when you went in there, you said there were six, eight, you really weren't certain.
ROOF: Are you guys lying to me?
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: No, we're not.
ROOF: It's sort of complicated because they were all under the tables. You see what I'm saying? It is not like I was going around shooting people that were already dead or anything like that. It was just when I shot a magazine, I just went, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, you see what I'm saying, at one person. You see what I'm saying?
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: So when you started shooting, I guess you say you were quick shooting, like maybe they didn't see where it was coming from --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: -- and they all dove under the table.
ROOF: Right. Right. Everybody dove under the table.
UNIDENTIFIED FBI AGENT: Everybody? And then you went around the tables to shoot them.
ROOF: No, not exactly. There are some people that I didn't shoot. I think there were two people I didn't even shoot at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:20:16] SANDOVAL: That entire video lasting close to hours. And in it, Poppy, you can clearly see and hear a cold, callous, calculated killer.
Two questions you couldn't make out answers to that the agents posed: Would you do it again? Do you regret it? Again, clearly, a very disturbed individual here. We will have to see what happens next week and what witnesses could be called. And that could include even more of the survivors.
HARLOW: Someone who was found to be fit to stand trial and someone, as you know, Polo, who sat in that church and prayed with those parishioners for an hour before doing this. Unbelievable.
Polo, thank you very much, from Charleston.
Breaking news straight ahead out of turkey to tell you about. Two explosions rocking Istanbul today. We know at this hour at least 20 people have been wounded. Details, straight ahead.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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[15:24:49] HARLOW: Breaking news out of Turkey where we are seeing the first images from Istanbul. Two large explosions a short time ago outside of a major sports stadium right in the center of the city. First official reports are that at least 20 people have been wounded. Our affiliate in Turkey on the ground is reporting gunfire. That happened after a Saturday night soccer game. Again, two explosions, at least 20 people hurt in Istanbul. We're following this. Of course, we'll update you as soon as we know more.
Straight ahead, he is one of President-elect Donald Trump's biggest cheerleaders on and off Wall Street. But even Carl Icahn thinks that this Trump stock market rally has perhaps gotten a little out of hand. My interview with the billionaire investor next.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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HARLOW: Another week of record highs on Wall Street, part of what they are calling the Trump rally. The Dow soaring more than 1000 points since the world woke up to President-elect Trump on November 9th. A stark contrast to the overnight reaction when futures around the world plunged as it became clear that Donald Trump would win the U.S. election. While the Dow futures were sinking, Carl Icahn was buying, literally leaving the Trump victory party to get in on the action. The activist investor has often been cited by Trump as the kind of business mind he will bring to the White House.
Carl Icahn joins me on the phone.
Thank you so much for being with me.
Given this huge rally, did you make a mistake by not betting more the night of the election?
CARL ICAHN, INVESTER (voice-over): Yes, I did. I was going to say that I'm happy that I did buy that night. I'm sad I didn't buy a lot more. So, but playing the market and trading is a very difficult endeavor. Very few, if any, can do it. You are never going to be right all the time. That's not what I do anyway. So --
HARLOW: How much of this rally, Carl, is a direct reaction to the election? Because the economy has been strong. The market has been strong ahead of it. How much is about the president-elect?
[15:50:00] ICAHN: Yeah. No, I think it is completely related. It's related to Trump and the way he has handled it and spoke. And the world believes that things are going to be very bright. Is that the case? There are many problems ahead, many bumps in the road. I think Donald is completely on the right track in the things he is trying to do. Obviously, it will be difficult to do a lot of them and there will be bumps on the road.
HARLOW: We have seen him taking on individual companies. This week, it was Boeing for the $4 billion price tag that he said the new Air Force One will cost. President Obama as you well know, Carl, has been criticized for being anti-business for the comments he made about Wall Street, using the term "fat cats." Over the last year, we have seen Donald Trump take on numerous American companies, Carrier, Boeing, Rexnard (ph). At what point does that become anti-business?
ICAHN: I think the big picture is much more important. I think what Donald is trying to convey is quite the opposite of what you just said. I don't say you are saying it wrong. I think what he is trying to convey is that we are really going to be more friendly with business. The government is not going to fight business. I think in interpreting what he is doing, at least from my way of looking at it, is, well, he says to Carrier, don't leave, things are going to change. That is a good thing.
(CROSSTALK)
ICAHN: What you have to be doing, this country, is showing business and having business perceive the government is not your enemy. It is your friend. If it is your friend, it is not going to have crazy regulations, something I'm involved with, with Donald as part of behind the scenes, interviewing some of these guys to go into the regulatory arena. I look at it that what he is trying to convey and I think is conveying, that we are going to do things to stimulate business and help invest because you want business to invest. HARLOW: We're going to get to some of these picks that Donald Trump
has made for his team in a moment. I know you have been integral in some of the decisions.
But on business, let's talk about the Carrier deal in Indiana. The president-elect tweeted this week, "If United Steel Workers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana, spending more time working, less time talking. Reduce dues."
Do you think he is correct to blame the union for using those jobs?
ICAHN: I am no expert on Carrier. I will tell you, I have a lot of companies and many are unionized. Many unions, we have good relations with. The unions can be very difficult at times. We found that. So, I think Donald is sort of saying that. I'm not anti-union. You can't tell me that some unions haven't really made the life of the businessman very difficult.
HARLOW: Do you think that this presidency will be the beginning of the end for many unions in America?
ICAHN: I don't necessarily think that, no. I think the NLRB has been way too lax and way too much on the side of the union.
HARLOW: Donald Trump has also tweeted and talked about a company a mile down the road from Carrier in Indiana named Rexnard (ph). They are laying off 300 workers and those jobs are going to Mexico. The vice-president elect, Mike Pence, says, we as an administration are going to take it day by day in terms of singling out these companies. Do you think that's the way they should go about it when he is the president? Can you do that, Carl?
ICAHN: I personally think -- this is my own personal opinion -- that you are, shall I say, emphasizing the wrong thing here. That's my own personal opinion. And watch the scene. We're emphasizing the wrong thing. I think Donald is basically -- I don't want to sound intuitive here, but what Donald has been doing, by and large -- and this is why the market is going up. The market is not going up because Donald has kept Carrier from going to Mexico. The market is going up -- and maybe it has got ahead of itself. I am not going to say it hasn't -- but it is going up because it has perceived this is going to be a very pro-business presidency and government. And --
[15:35:19] HARLOW: Do you think the market is a little bit ahead of itself right now, Carl?
ICAHN: I personally -- look, I want to be the first to say that nobody can really pick what the market is going to do. It is sort of a fool's errand. I mean, it's almost like picking what the dice thrower in Vegas on the next shoot.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: You can try.
ICAHN: You can try. So, everybody has tried. If you have been around like me a long time, you feel you have some good instincts. I will tell you, if I tell you next week what the market is going to do, it's almost sort of worthless.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Are you buying right now? Let me ask you, Carl, are you buying today?
ICAHN: I have a very hedged portfolio. I really don't play the market or try not to play the market. I have a hedge on. I buy stocks that I like a lot and I short others that I don't like. So --
HARLOW: All right, let me ask you this.
ICAHN: If you say, am I buying, I'm buying certain things and selling certain things.
HARLOW: OK.
ICAHN: I'm not a trader. We have a huge portfolio that we have.
So, if you are asking me my opinion, I do think that -- and that's just my opinion -- that it has gone too far. I think the reason is that -- I think there's a couple reasons. One, when it is perceived your taxes are going to be a lot less next year, obviously, you look at it and say, well, why don't I wait until January 1st to sell or January 3rd to sell. Why sell it now? If I believed my taxes -- I'm talking about middle America now. I'm talking about certain pension funds. Well, not pension funds. They don't pay taxes. But certainly, investors are saying, hey, look, why should I sell now when I can save -- let's say it is even, whether it is up or down, when I can save a lot of money by waiting until next year. So, what happens is a lot of stock is not offered. Therefore, it is very thin. You see this money pouring into ETFs, and ETFs to some extent are mindless. You are just buying an average. You're not doing any analysis. I don't blame the guys that run the ETFs. People give money to them, they just buy the index. There are a lot of reasons for it going up at this moment in time, which might change on the dime.
However, I'm not telling anybody here not to buy stocks or to buy stocks. I personally think it is a little overdone. But that doesn't mean very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: My thanks to Carl Icahn.
Next hour, you will hear more from him for Donald Trump's picks for his cabinets. What is exactly going on behind the scenes in all of this? Carl Icahn, a big part of the decision-making, interviewing some of these candidates. More with Carl Icahn ahead in the next hour.
Much more of our breaking news ahead here right after a quick break.
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[15:40:00] HARLOW: You are looking at pictures from moments ago. President-elect Donald Trump just arriving at the annual Army/Navy football game in Baltimore. A live report coming up from there in a few minutes.
Meantime, reports that the CIA has concluded that russian hackers intervened in the russian election with the purpose of helping Donald Trump win. That intent is what is new here. Now, President-elect Trump is taking on the CIA in a statement his team just released in the last 24 hours, which reads, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It is now time to move on and make America great again."
The CIA, for its part, not commenting. Russia asks, where is the evidence.
This, as the president-elect continues to form his team, make some major cabinet picks this week. The big one, secretary of state, still up in the air. CNN has learned that Exxon-Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson is leading the pack. Mitt Romney is still under consideration.
Let's talk it over with our panel. Ryan Williams is with us, formerly a spokesman with Mitt Romney when he served as governor of Massachusetts; Jay Newton-Small, a contributor for "Time" magazine; and Andre Bauer, a Republican and former lieutenant governor for South Carolina.
Thanks for being here. A lot to get to.
Let's begin with Russia, because Trump's assertion that the intelligence team of today is the same as 13 years ago, with the failed WMD intelligence is not true. But bigger picture, taking on the intelligence community right before you take the oath of office, are you concerned, Ryan, that the president-elect is risking a critical feud with the community that he relies on for top secret briefings on the greatest threats to this country?
RYAN WILLIAMS, FORMER MITT ROMNEY SPOKESMAN: I am not sure it is the best way to deal with it but it is troubling to see the administration sources leaking reports as to what happened in the intelligence community and their analysis to the media. I think it is an attempt to undermine the administration. Clearly, everybody is concerned about foreign influence in our elections, whether it is Russia, China, everybody. I don't think taking it to the news and litigating it is the best way to do it specially at a time when this president is trying --
(CROSSTALK) HARLOW: Ryan, is that how you read the end of the president's statement saying it is time to move on. Does that show great concern for getting to the bottom of it?
WILLIAMS: No, I don't think it is the best way to respond to the intelligence community. I do think it is best to understand that President-elect Donald Trump will be our president. Whether or not there was foreign Intervention, I don't know if there was or was not. I think this was a legitimate election. To blame WikiLeaks for Hillary Clinton's loss is wrong. Hillary Clinton lost because she was a bad candidate. She ran a bad campaign. She should have won this election. To try to invalidate the election because of these concerns is wrong.
HARLOW: Andrew What do you make of how the president-elect has handled this, going after the CIA and their biggest intelligence blunder in decades?
ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He is getting ready to put an unbelievable individual as the CIA director, Mike Pompeo --
HARLOW: Who he is at the game with today.
BAUER: House Intelligence Committee, first in his class at West Point, Harvard grad. He is a stellar leader. So, he's going to have a new leader in there.
[15:4512:] HARLOW: That's the thing, there are going to be a lot of the same employees there. You are insulting the agency. Do you approve of the way he's done that?
BAUER: I don't know that he's insulted them, but he is challenging what he thinks isn't right. There are lot of bureaucrats there. And a lot of folks in the main heartland of American feel like this is the same old, same old. Nobody is going on record. These are unsubstantiated allegations. And so, there's questions as to --
HARLOW: How are they unsubstantiated when the 17 intelligence agencies of the United States have come together and briefed Congress in the last week and said this is what we have found?
BAUER: Among intelligence officials, they have struggled to collect viable information on Putin and they have disagreed on several of these issues and they have not got a uniform agreement as to what has happened.
Sean Spicer was on Michael's show and said, they say we were hacked, and we were not hacked. They are basing part of that decision on the fact that RNC was hacked. He said, I've invited them in and tried to prove to them that, in fact, we were not hacked. They don't have the whole information they need. And that's why --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: On that front, if they don't - let's -- many people would disagree with you. And most of "The Washington Post" reporting is they do have a mountain of evidence. But you're right, they do say there are some points of contention where they do disagree. But, OK, I'll give you that.
But do you believe that President-elect Trump is right to say it is time to move on? Or do you want to see the next president dig on this and get to the bottom of an aggressive foreign actor meddling in America's democracy?
BAUER: I do want to see us move on. However, if we think -- just like Lindsey Graham said, if we really think the russian government was involved in hacking, we do need to get to the bottom of it and there does need to be sanctions and some type of action toward them -
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: We either move on or we get to the bottom of it.
BAUER: No. Because Donald Trump has, I think, kind of stayed the same course. A lot of his folks want to go after Hillary Clinton. He said, nope, we need to move on. I think he has maintained the same throughout. We are not going to continue to go after some of these issues that were campaign issues, I want to move the country forward. If the United States Senate and House think that, in fact, there was meddling, within the russian government in our politics, then, yes, we should engage them. Donald Trump is trying to work on what he proposed -
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BAUER: -- what he ran on, and moving forward.
HARLOW: I have to get Jay in here.
Jay, thanks for being patient.
I have to get your take on this. There is also the bigger picture here when you look at the secretary of state's election. CNN is reporting that Exxon-Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson is at the top of Trump's picks. No final pick yet. But if he picks him, it would be a controversial pick. One main reason, his ties to Russia and his closeness to russian president, Vladimir Putin. Look back to 2011, Exxon signed this huge deal with russian oil giant, Rosen (ph), after their biggest share is the russian government. Also, Rex Tillerson went to Russia to receive the russian Order of Friendship. And he has spoken out against some of the U.S. sanctions against Russia.
Would that hurt him in a confirmation process?
JAY NEWTON-SMALL, CONTRIBUTOR, TIME MAGAZINE: It would be very contentious. Even Republicans have a lot of concerns, is this man prepared? Is it appropriate that he is a secretary of state? He has obviously never been in government. Is he able to do diplomacy? Would he be biased, especially considering his company's vast amount of influence in the markets? For example, in Iraq, they made policy. They essentially created Kurdistan by pulling out of the southern oil fields in Iraq and then investing in Kurdistan against the wishes of Baghdad. So, there are all these times in the last decade where Exxon has really created somewhat controversial foreign policy that has been criticized on the Hill. You see even Republican Senators saying, I don't know, we would have to look at this further before we decide if we're going to --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: But he does have relationships that could be very critical with these foreign leaders, which some would say, look, at that as an asset. He knows these people. He's done business with them before.
A lot more to debate. You'll all be back.
Thank you very much, Ryan, Jay and Andre.
For many, this time of year, for all of us it should be about giving back. The "Tenth Annual CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute" salutes 10 people that are putting others first all year long. The star-studded gala airs live right here on CNN tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m.
Take a look.
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[15:49:49] ANNOUNCER: They are the kind and the caring, the strong and the brave. They are the ones that see a need, fill a void, make a difference.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: I am trying to give them all the opportunities they deserve.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: This has become my life. I don't ever want to do anything else.
ANNOUNCER: They don't do it for themselves. They do it for all the rest of us. They are reminder of what's good in this world and what it truly means to be a hero.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: We give them the foundation from which they can thrive, the feeling of family
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: We have transformed the lives of thousands of children.
ANNOUNCER: Tomorrow night, CNN presents a very special live event, "The Tenth Annual CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute."
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, A.C. 360: We're gathered to celebrate extraordinary men and women who highlight the best of what humanity has to offer.
ANNOUNCER: Join host, Anderson Cooper, and special co-host, Kelly Ripa, as we honor 10 extraordinary people. "The Tenth Annual CNN Heroes, All-Star Tribute," live tomorrow night at 8:00 on CNN.
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HARLOW: The Gibson Company of Tennessee has crafted some of the most recognizable guitars. Case in point, Bob Marley lived with his Gibson, but was buried with it, too.
As part of our "Artisan" series," "CNN Style" visited Gibson's Nashville factory to discover the craftsmanship behind the instruments used in some of the world's most iconic rock anthems.
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[15:55:13] UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gibson electric guitars have been the instrument of choice for rock and blues legends, from B.B. King and Chuck Barry to Bob Marley and Eric Clapton.
Here in their Nashville factor, tens of thousands of guitars are produced every year.
RICK HENDRICKSON, BINDER, GIBSON GUITAR: What makes it a Les Paul or Gibson Great is the second you play it, if you're a musician, you know the difference. It's just -- it has a sound of its own.
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UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rick Henrickson is a binder responsible for carefully sealing each guitar edge with a long strip of glue-backed plastic.
HENRICKSON: When you're binding, you have to learn a series of moves and each series helps you wrap it up. If you don't have it on there right and do it right, there will be air gaps between the body and it's no good.
The fact that these are still made by hand, a guy's hand fits in the next. The guy has been there, around there, and make it right, you can't do that -- they come up with a machine that can do it. And that's what I wanted to be a part of it.
It seems like the simple thing but there's a lot of art that goes into getting it just right. And we're real proud of that.
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