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Washington Post: CIA Convinced Russia Tried to Help Trump Win; ExxonMobil CEO Met With President-Elect Today; Reports: Explosions, Gunfire in Istanbul; Indiana's Rexnord to Close Plant, Move 300 Jobs to Mexico; Deloitte Leads on Paid Family Leave. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired December 10, 2016 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:37] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. So glad you're with us. We begin with politics, and President-Elect Donald Trump taking on U.S. Intelligence Agencies, he will oversee soon as commander-in-chief. In a stunning move, his transition team slammed the CIA over reports that the agency believe Russian hackers intervened in the election with the specific intent of helping Donald Trump win. Those intelligence agencies are not saying, though, that it swayed the election.
Russia, for its part, is saying, where is the evidence? And here's what Trump's transition team put out in a statement last night. Quote, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago and one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It's now time to move on and Make America Great Again." The CIA is not commenting. Trump's assertion that the intelligence team of today is the same as 13 years ago when they had the faulty WMD intelligence, well, that's not true.
Our Ryan Nobles is live for us in Baltimore with more where Trump is watching the army navy college football game. I understand, Ryan, that you just spoke with Senator John McCain, who is also there. And specifically, when it comes to Russia, you asked him about the man who is now leading on Donald Trump's list for Secretary of State, that is Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson. What did McCain say?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Poppy. You know, our sources are telling us that Tillerson is right now at the top of the list for President-Elect Trump. And Senator McCain told me that concerns him. Because of Tillerson's close ties to the Russian government. As the CEO of Exxon Mobil, he negotiated a big deal with the largest oil company in Russia, of which the Russian government is its top investor. And Senator McCain says, he wants to know where Tillerson stands as it relates to Russia's role in the world before he gives him his support in confirmation.
Take a listen to what McCain told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I have obviously concerns of reports of his relationship with Vladimir Putin, who is a thug and a murderer. But that's the -- we will have hearings, and that issue and other issues concerning him will be examined, and then that's the time to make up your mind as to whether to vote yes or no.
NOBLES: So what kind of questions would you ask Rex Tillerson that would make you feel comfortable about him in a role like that?
MCCAIN: His view of Vladimir Putin and his role in the world, and, for example, the fact that Boris Namshaft (ph) who is the leader of the opposition was murdered on the orders, I believe of Vladimir Putin in the shadow of the Kremlin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: And I asked Senator McCain if he has concerns broadly about how the President-Elect feels about Russia and how he'll interact with Russia and he said that he's going to wait and see until President- Elect Trump actually takes office and said that he's very happy with his pick for Secretary of Defense in General James Mattis and how Mattis views the relationship with Russia. So, this is something that obviously McCain is concerned about but he wants to see what happens in these confirmation hearings before making his final decision -- Poppy.
HARLOW: And we don't know who the pick is going to be yet. But I do have some brand-new reporting that sheds some light on this. From our John King. Let me read it to you in full. John King just reporting now that Rex Tillerson has told the President-Elect that he would be honored to have the job of secretary of state. He said this as he left the meeting of the two of the men had today at Trump Tower. And he left that meeting, John King reports, believing that he will be the pick. This is according to two sources familiar with his thinking.
One of those sources telling our John King that Tillerson was told that the President-Elect will formalize his choice next week, that is in line by the way with what the Trump transition team just said today. Both of these sources telling our John King that, you know, they did not use their names. This was given on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the issue with their names. But, again, the headline there, Rex Tillerson left this meeting believing he's going to be the pick. I understand, Ryan, that Donald Trump just gave an interview to Chris Wallace at FOX News. What's the highlight from that?
NOBLES: Yes, well, Wallace asked Donald Trump what he likes about Rex Tillerson, and it's interesting that a lot of the criticisms, perhaps, that Tillerson has received over the past 48 hours about his possible nomination are things that Trump seems to view as strengths. Listen to what he told Chris Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Let me ask you about Rex Tillerson.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Okay.
WALLACE: Head of Exxon Mobil. Why does a business executive make sense as the chief diplomat?
TRUMP: Well, in his case, he's much more than a business executive. I mean, he's a world class player. He's in-charge of I guess the largest company in the world. He's in charge of -- an oil company that's pretty much doubled the size of his next nearest competitor. It's been a company that's been unbelievably managed. And to me, a great advantage is he knows many of the players. And he knows them well. He does massive deals in Russia. He does massive deals for the company. Not for himself, but for the company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:05:52] NOBLES: So you see there, Donald Trump saying that those close ties to Russia are actually an attribute. The polar opposite of what John McCain told us just a few hours ago. So Poppy, this just shows us, we are in for quite a rocky road in terms of the confirmation process if it ends up being Tillerson, because Donald Trump clearly behind him, and there are others who have serious concerns.
HARLOW: We'll be watching it all again. The Trump team saying, no official announcement until next week. Thank you very much, Ryan Nobles. We appreciate it. Let's talk about all of this with my panel.
Buck Sexton is with me, former CIA counterterrorism analyst, host of "The Buck Sexton Show" in The Blaze. And he voted for Donald Trump. Kim Dozier is with us, CNN global affairs analyst and contributing writer for The Daily Beast.
Let me just get your take on this, Buck, as a Trump supporter, as a Republican, what Trump just said to Chris Wallace about if he picks Rex Tillerson to be Secretary of State. He said a great advantage is that he knows many of the players and he knows them well. He does massive deals in Russia. OK. Given the relationship and the strains between shall I say the United States and Russia, is that an advantage? Or should that be something that the American people should be concerned about that he has a pretty friendly relationship with Russia and Vladimir Putin?
BUCK SEXTON, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I think it's fascinating that we have come out of eight years of an administration that has specifically reached out to some of the biggest strategic foes the United States has, some of the long-standing enemies we have around the world, including Cuba and Iran with a much more open hand than many people I think thought was wise in the process. And now that it comes to Russia, the idea that we would try to perhaps have somebody who has a deep understanding of Russia and friendly ties with Russia as a bad thing inherently to me seems quite strange.
I mean, if we want better relations with Russia, we should probably have somebody who has an understanding of how the Kremlin works, how Putin thinks. He obviously really is the Russian government. And at a certain level, he is the one who is making all of the major decisions and so it makes sense to me that you would have somebody who also has a tremendous business background, who isn't a life-long bureaucrat. These would strike me as strengths. But then again, this is just all come out today and it's not official.
HARLOW: Yes. It's not official. If he is picked, he would be the first I believe Secretary of State to serve without any government experience. And he does have all of these long-standing relationships with world leaders. Which something clearly Trump sees as an advantage. We were looking at Kimberly Dozier pictures of Tillerson and with Putin, he was in Russia few years ago, he got an award from them basically an order of friendship from them. Where do you fall on this? Is Buck right? Is it helpful to, you know, where the United States and Russia go moving forward to have a relationship like this? Or is it too chummy?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, we have to remember, the U.S. has had warm relations with Russia in the past. Even the Obama administration had been able to work with them to remove weapons of mass destruction from Syria. And also behind the scenes, work with them on things like reducing the nuclear stockpiles. Now, right now it's been a more rocky relationship and Trump advisers I have spoken to have said, stay tuned, it's not going to be all friendly.
But we're trying to make overtures so that they see that we want to do business with them. While we're also increasing our military strength in the coming years, and so we'll have a two-pronged approach. The hand of friendship, but also a signal that we will firmly stand against them if they try to treat us like a pushover, as some Trump officials believe the Obama administration has been treated at the hands of Putin.
HARLOW: Buck, Lindsey Graham, Senator Lindsey Graham today tweeting the following. Quote, "I'm not challenging the outcome of the election, but I'm very concerned about Russian interference at home and throughout the world. Don't have to be Sherlock Homes to figure out what Russia is up to. They're trying to undermine democracies all over the world." Is Lindsey Graham in part at least correct?
SEXTON: I mean, it's an exaggerated. But the point about Russia interfering in the U.S. election, it seems to be true. I think people have thought this for a long time. This isn't new. What's new is that there is now a secret report that is being reported on by anonymous officials from inside the intelligence community that allegedly says that they have more solid evidence that it ties directly to the Russian government. But people have known this for quite a while now. There's been Russia interference. People have thought that this was the case with the hacked e-mails. And, yes, Russia is pursuing a very aggressive foreign policy.
[19:10:13] HARLOW: I guess what I'm asking is, should the President- Elect be more outraged by it? Right? Because he said in a statement, his team said it's time to move on.
SEXTON: Yes, no. I don't think he should be more outraged by it. Because I think he recognizes between the huge amount of attention paid to fake news recently, the amount of attention that we have been told should be put on this e-mail hacking business with Podesta, Russian interference the election. The FBI director coming out and saying that Hillary's e-mails were once again being looked at.
These are all excuses that we keep returning to or rather we're forced to return to by much of the immediate as a reason for why Hillary Clinton lost the election. Is it bad that Russia interferes in our election? Absolutely. And it seems like that's quite likely ugly a bit for a long time before this report came out. Did it change the outcome of the election? Definitely -- there's almost no way it changed the outcome of the election.
HARLOW: Let's set that aside the outcome of the election. Let's set that aside, right? Because there is no evidence that it impacted the outcome.
SEXTON: None. Absolutely no evidence.
HARLOW: But there is evidence that Vladimir Putin and Russia had its hand on the scale in an attempting to.
SEXTON: I don't know that Putin did, but there is evidence that -- there are officials that are saying there is a still secret report that they're just commenting on to the press that says that there are Russians involved with this --
HARLOW: Do you believe -- do you believe that the Republicans and Democrats should be equally outraged that a -- an aggressive foreign actor would try to meddle in American democracy?
SEXTON: Yes, I think there should be a bipartisan consensus that we don't want foreign entities trying to change the outcome or influenced the outcome of the U.S. election at all. But I also think it meets the context of, it didn't change the outcome of the election and Russia has been engaged in these kinds of activities from the old KGB (ph) days. And by the way many other countries decide they're just going to publicly endorse one candidate or another in foreign elections. And there is a Russian cable propaganda channel in this country that goes in English language to try to influence us.
HARLOW: There is. Kimberly Dozier, very quickly I go. Why should Americans care about this as we look ahead at, you know, cyber warfare?
DOZIER: Because many members of the intelligence community I have spoken to, both current and former, have said they're really concerned that the incoming president doesn't trust them. Yes, some members of the intelligence community believe that Russia tried to hack these elections, while other members did not. But the director of National Intelligence said the majority opinion was Russia was out to throw this election, and there's real concern that the President-Elect doesn't want to hear that -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Buck Sexton, Kimberly Dozier. Thank you both very much.
SEXTON: Thank you.
HARLOW: Important discussion. Up next, more on the potential political fallout, what happens when a President-elect takes aim at his own intelligence agencies? We'll debate it, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:16:02] HARLOW: New details just into CNN about President-Elect Donald Trump's search for a Secretary of State. Sources are telling our John King that Exxon Mobil, CEO Rex Tillerson honored to become secretary of state. And that he left the meeting with Trump today believing that he will be the pick. The Trump team not confirming that and saying in an announcement won't come before next week. This comes amid reports of the CIA has concluded that Russian hackers intervened in the election with the purpose of trying to help Donald Trump win, though there is not evidence that it actually swayed the election.
And now Trump is taking on the CIA, Trump's transition team releasing a statement, which reads, "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago and one of the biggest Electoral Colleges victories in history. It's now time to move on and Make America Great Again." The CIA is not commenting.
Let's talk about our -- all of this with our panel, Julian Zelizer is with me, historian and professor of Princeton. Andre Bauer is here, he voted for Donald Trump, he's a Republican and former lieutenant governor of South Carolina. And Lanhee Chen, former Mitt Romney public policy director. Thank you guys very much for being here.
As we just reported, also, as you know, Julian, Senator John McCain says, he has some concerns about Tillerson if he is, indeed, the nominee, because of his connections to Russia. And Russia's President Vladimir Putin. We've never seen someone serve as secretary of state with no government experience. Walk us through sort of the history of this. Of relationships that former Secretary of States have had perhaps before serving with leaders of other countries, especially ones with this tenuous relationship as United States and Russia have right now.
JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, we have had many people who start in the law and then they have different degrees of Foreign Service as they move their way up. This is a very close connection, not just interacting with a leader from another country, but obviously a leader who is now front and center in a potential scandal involving hacking this election. It reminds me a little bit in terms of the CIA part of this, of Richard Nixon, who didn't trust a lot of the bureaucracy and came into office saying he was going to be removed from them. But this is an unusual secretary of state pick that we're talking about.
HARLOW: If it is indeed the pick, we just don't know yet. But Andre, I think that Julian brings up an important point. As of, you know, as someone who voted for Donald Trump, a big supporter of his, does it concern you at all that he clearly has reservations about the voracity of the reporting from our own intelligence agencies? ANDRE BAUER, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: It doesn't
concern me, because like most Americans, there are lots of things the government has told me over the years that I have questioned. I think a lot of thinking people don't always take everything at face value. I mean, I still don't believe one bullet killed John Kennedy and shot John Conley, as well, went through the seat. The things that --
HARLOW: But aren't you on the same team? Isn't the president on the same team as his intelligence agencies? And if you have questions or concerns about the voracity of the intelligence, is it wiser to make those known in private?
BAUER: Well, his team will be in place when he takes office. And we'll have a new CIA director. And that will be his team. That will be the person he has entrusted to listen to for information and intelligence. Not the current team in place.
HARLOW: That's a lot of the staff remains the same. I mean, Lanhee, jump in here.
LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look. I think, you know, as Andre said, I do think the President-Elect is going to put in his own team. I think Congressman Pompeo is going to be a terrific director of the CIA. I do think institutionally though, is it important to address this all with some degree of reservation and sobriety. I can understand having some doubts about what the intelligence is saying. I can even understand having some doubts about what the assessment is.
I do think at the end of the day, though, it is important to treat these institutions with a little bit of greater amount of sobriety and respect, perhaps, because these people are going to be shoulder to shoulder with the President-Elect and his team as they attempt to fight this war on terror here at home and around the world.
HARLOW: Julian, if Rex Tillerson is the pick, again, he would be a first, right, in terms of not serving in government before, which Donald Trump just said in this interview with Chris Wallace was an asset, the fact that he, as Donald Trump put it, has the advantage that he knows many of the players, meaning many of the global leaders, he knows them well, he has done massive business deals with Russia. That's what Donald Trump is saying.
Should the American people be concerned about conflicts of interest when -- you know, even if he would have to obviously, you know, sell all of his shares, et cetera, and have no personal gain in any future moves of Exxon within Russia. But should that be of concern to the American people?
ZELIZER: Well, it should be of concern. There is a lot of concern about President-Elect Trump, because of his own business holdings. And simply how he thinks of conflict of interest. We assume there would be stringent divestment taking place if he is the secretary of state. We don't know that. But it's going to worry people.
HARLOW: There would be. There would have to be. ZELIZER: Right. It's going to worry people that there's not much
experience in terms of diplomacy and in terms of working through diplomatic channels and obviously, it also will raise finally concerns about having someone from an energy company running state. With the deputy also let's remember might be John Bolton, someone who is extraordinarily hawkish and will cause his own set of controversies. So I think there's going to be a lot of room on Capitol Hill to worry about this, and add to that the Putin relationship which is going to be on the minds of people like Senator McCain.
HARLOW: Andre, I assume you disagree with that?
BAUER: Not totally. I do think diplomacy is something that -- you don't have to be in politics to have diplomacy. I came from a business background before I served in the legislature. And so the business dealings he's done over the year I think give him plenty of opportunity to learn diplomacy without serving in public office. I do think that he is correct in the fact that there are people that have, you know, apprehensions about someone just going in there. And that's why we have a vetting process, United States Senate will do an excellent job of vetting him. John McCain has talked about it, and I think that gives us all a little bit of more certainty after he's gone through that process.
HARLOW: Andre Bauer, Lanhee Chen, Julian Zelizer, thank you all very much.
So, ahead tonight. We do have breaking news out of Turkey and Istanbul. An attack there, Istanbul rocked by two explosions. Tonight at least 20 people have been wounded. Details after the break. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:26:26] HARLOW: We are following breaking news tonight out of Istanbul, Turkey where two large explosions shook the center of the city just a short time ago.
This is Central Istanbul after a soccer match at a huge sports stadium. Look at the moment of one of the explosions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total shock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Witnesses say, two separate explosions detonated outside of the stadium. A large one and then a smaller one. We know at least 20 people are reported injured. We do not yet have official confirmation on any casualties. Turkey State News Agency tonight reporting the police officers were the apparent target of the attack. Turkey's interior minister is quoted as saying a suicide bomber carried out at least one of those attacks and was behind one of the explosions. No claim yet on responsibility. Of course, this is all still developing. We'll bring you the very latest as soon as we have it. Coming up next, the news that Donald Trump saved jobs, hundreds of
them at Indiana's Carrier manufacturing plant is bittersweet for some 300 workers. Just a mile down the road. The Rexnord Corporation is planning to ship all of those 300 jobs to Mexico. The union rep says, the announcement was sudden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they just come out and said we're closing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Up next, I will ask him if he thinks Donald Trump will save his job. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:31:02] HARLOW: The news that President-elect Donald Trump saved hundreds of jobs at a Carrier plant in Indiana was bittersweet for employees at a neighboring company. Just one mile from Carrier's Indianapolis plant, where Donald Trump cut a deal to save 800 jobs, hundreds of other workers are on the verge of losing theirs. Rexnord planning to move 300 jobs from Indiana down to Mexico and shutter the plant completely.
Donald Trump Tweeting about Rexnord last week, saying, "Rexnord of Indiana is moving to Mexico and rather viciously firing all of its 300 workers. This is happening all over our country. No more."
Our Martin Savidge spoke with Rexnord workers about their precarious situation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As they celebrated saving hundreds of jobs inside the Carrier plant, I sat at Josh Shartzer's kitchen table. He's a long-time worker at a company down the street, called Rexnord.
(on camera): You happy for them?
JOSH SHARTZER, REXNORD EMPLOYEE: Yeah, I'm totally psyched. And I'm happy for my community.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Shartzer just wishes someone would save his job, too.
That's because Rexnord announced six weeks ago, it was leaving, relocating its Indianapolis operation to Mexico, taking 300 well- paying jobs with it.
At the local union hall, John Feltner remembers when the bad news broke.
JOHN FELTNER, MACHINIST & VICE PRESIDENT, REXNORD UNION: And he says, we have a meeting at 2:30 on the back dock. Come to find out, they actually split the plant. Half the plant went up to the front dock, the other half went to the back dock. And they just came out and said we're closing.
SAVIDGE: Rexnord has had a plant on the west side of Indianapolis since the 1950s. Don Zering (ph) worked there for 43 years.
DON ZERING (ph), REXNORD EMPLOYEE: It's not 300. It's at least three or four people per family. You're talking 12, 15, 1,800 people.
SAVIDGE: Ironically, Tim Matthews ended up at Rexnord after the last factory he was at closed.
TIM MATTHEWS, REXNORD EMPLOYEE: It's rough. So, yeah, I was actually hoping I wouldn't have to go through it again.
SAVIDGE: Carrier had planned to phase its shutdown over three years. Rexnord workers say they have six months.
Now, they watch President-elect Trump come to town and save Carrier, and they're happy.
(on camera): But isn't there a part that says, what about me?
MATTHEWS: Sure, you bet there is. There is a part that says, what about me.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Shartzer is married with six kids. They've already started cutting back. And he thinks about all he missed working those 12-hour shifts to provide what he calls his nice, middle-class home.
SHARTZER: It's not anything to brag about but it's nice enough for us.
SAVIDGE: He started a college fund for his daughters, put some money into a retirement fund, and bought his wife their first new minivan.
SHARTZER: My first payment was due that Friday they announced.
SAVIDGE: He's glad to hear about Carrier, especially because he never thought it could happen.
(on camera): Does that give you hope?
SHARTZER: No. It's a different situation. It's --
SAVIDGE: How so?
SHARTZER: It's comparing apples to oranges.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): For starters, Rexnord wasn't a campaign issue. It's not a household name, like Carrier. And it doesn't have a parent company that does billions of dollars in defense contracts.
SHARTZER: We don't have a parent company that has 10 percent of their revenue in federal contracts. SAVIDGE (on camera): Do you think that matters?
SHARTZER: Oh, yeah, it matters. Yeah.
SAVIDGE: You think it mattered in this case?
SHARTZER: Oh, yeah, 100 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Martin Savidge, thank you very much for that reporting.
Let's talk more about this with John Feltner, the vice president of Rexnord's union, and also a machinist at the company's ball bearing factor in Indianapolis.
Thank you for joining me.
FELTNER: Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: You are putting two kids through college right now.
FELTNER: Yes, ma'am.
HARLOW: And Marty's piece just talked about the good-paying jobs. These are jobs I've seen firsthand across the Rustbelt. You know them well. The average wage of Rexford's plant there, 25 bucks an hour.
You voted for Donald Trump. You put your hope in him. Do you think that he is going to save your job?
[17:35:01] FELTNER: Save my job? Probably not. Nothing has been said. We appreciate the tweet of him getting our Rexnord plant out, saying that they're viciously firing 300 people. But as far as saving the jobs, our jobs are slated to go to Mexico.
HARLOW: Yeah, but he saved the Carrier jobs, right?
FELTNER: I understand. If you listen to that piece before, if you talk to Josh, they have got a lot of defense contracts. I'm sure that was a heavy factor in that job.
Now, on the same hand, he didn't save all of the jobs at Carrier. So, those are the jobs that we're still fighting, along with -- along with ours.
HARLOW: So let's talk about that. Because you're right, I mean, there are still 500-plus jobs going to Mexico.
FELTNER: Absolutely.
HARLOW: And Trump tweeted about this deal, quote, "If United Steel Workers, 1999, was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana, spending more time working, less time talking. Reduce dues."
If you could sit down with the president-elect, what would you say to him?
FELTNER: I would ask him what he meant by that quote, "Reduce dues and work more, talk less." I don't think he understands what we do there. We were representing those people.
Regardless -- when it first broke -- when the Carrier story first broke, the numbers were 1,400 people going to Mexico. Those are our members. Absolutely, we're going to fight for them. He come in, and worked some kind of deal out, and said that we're saving 100. That's great, ecstatic. But we've still got 500 going. So, those are the people we're continuing to fight for, as well as Rexnord. And we're fighting for HTC up in -- the ones up in Huntington.
HARLOW: Let's listen to -- talking about that number of jobs, let's listen to what one of the employees of Carrier, whose job was saved, T.J. Bray, what he said to my colleague, Kate Bolduan, this week.
FELTNER: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
T.J. BRAY, CARRIER EMPLOYEE: President-elect Trump came in and said it was 1,100 jobs. We find out, sat with the company the day before yesterday, and we find out it's actually only 750, actually union production jobs, that will be staying. So, Trump kind of added in the 400 R&D and engineering jobs that were already slated to stay. So, we're kind of disappointed that we're losing 550 actual union jobs.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you feel lied to?
BRAY: Well, in a way, we -- we do. I mean, we feel like, you know, we thought you were going to save all of the jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Thought you were going to save all of the jobs. Do you feel misled by the president-elect on the number of jobs actually saved, what was, you know, put out there publicly by his team, and what the reality is?
FELTNER: I mean, when he said 1,100, they should have been 1,100, not 750. Like -- again, the people that we represent, we jumped into this fight when there was, you know, all the jobs going out. And nothing has changed. There are still people losing their jobs. We're still fighting.
HARLOW: Let me ask you a bigger-picture question, before I let you go. There is no way that any administration can come in and deal with every single company outsourcing their jobs one by one. It's just not feasible.
FELTNER: Right.
HARLOW: However, you can change policy, right? And that is something that is expected to be done with tax reform, et cetera. What would you -- what is the number-one thing you would like to see
the incoming administration do that you think will help people in your situation? Because, you know, Donald Trump points to global trade as being the reason that your jobs are going away. That's not all of it. A lot of it is, as you know well, automation and technology. So, given those two realities, what do you want to see happen that you think would help you and people in your situation?
FELTNER: Well, you know, that's a good question. I'm thinking that the trade policies would be a good idea. Again, when he was talking earlier, the quote that he said that it was due to the unions and high dues, again, I don't know what that quote was about. But trade policies would be a big help for us. These companies are leaving to exploit cheap labor. That's plain and simple. If he can change those trade policies to keep those jobs here in America, that's what we need. We need American jobs, not just union jobs.
HARLOW: But you agree it won't save all of them, because of automation, because of technology. Is there something else that can be done?
FELTNER: How are you going to stop automation? That -- you know. I don't know how you stop that or even if we wanted to stop it. But the fact is, even with automation, we have got to have people behind those -- behind that automation making that go.
HARLOW: John Feltner, please keep us posted. We're thinking about all of you and all of your families. We appreciate it.
FELTNER: Thank you very much, Poppy.
[17:40:56] HARLOW: Of course.
Up next, "American Opportunity." Boosting paid family leave has become a standard in Silicon Valley. Now it is spreading across the country. This is about new moms, new dads. The fight for paid leave, ahead. And does it make good business sense?
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: In this week's "American Opportunity," the new CEO of Deloitte not only shattered a glass ceiling by taking the helm as the first woman, but she's also shaking things up when it comes to paid family leave for new moms and new dads. We're seeing this happen across America right now.
I sat down with Deloitte's CEO, Cathy Engelbert, to ask her why, and if it makes business sense.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: You are the first woman ever to named CEO of a big-four professional services firm. You've been in the job now for a little while. When did it really strike you? CATHY ENGELBERT, CEO, DELOITTE: It struck me basically on week one,
because of the outpouring of letters and e-mails and calls from people saying they were inspired by something. And for me, it was about the outcome of an inclusive culture we had at Deloitte. For them, it was inspiring that I became that first woman CEO.
HARLOW: But you've also said that you're a little bit uncomfortable with all of the attention you got, because of it, sort of breaking through that proverbial glass ceiling. What's uncomfortable about it?
ENGELBERT: I guess it was uncomfortable, because I didn't think this was a big deal, because I had spent 29 years -- actually, 30 years with Deloitte. For me, I said, oh, this is not that I aspired to be the CEO, but I aspired to be a leader. So, for me, it's uncomfortable to have attention on me, because I worked there for 29 years before ascending to this title called CEO and that's what's uncomfortable.
[17:45:24] HARLOW: I wonder if you feel more pressure because, in part, you are a woman first in your sector.
ENGELBERT: I think it's not so much pressure, but it's definitely you're being paid more, I think. You're being watched for every move you make. You are being watched for how you build relationships. You're being watched on how you balance family and life. So, I do think you get watched more. I often take a look at the landscape of women who raise their hand for different roles in our organization or others, and the numbers aren't there for that, and that's what we need to progress more on.
HARLOW: Deloitte just made a big step in instituting 16 weeks, four months, of paid family leave for all your employees, men and women. This isn't just parental leave. This is caring for a sick relative, elderly parent. Up to 24 weeks of maternity leave for mothers. That's a lot.
ENGELBERT: Yes. Yes.
HARLOW: It's a huge shift, and I'm wondering why it came now.
ENGELBERT: It came now because the first thing we have been looking at is the life cycle of our employees' well-being. We have a multigenerational work force. We're trying to innovate around talent, and this is something we consider innovative.
HARLOW: It's also what people said that they would rather have, right? I mean, you guys studied this. 50 percent said they would rather have more parental leave than --
ENGELBERT: A pay raise.
HARLOW: -- a pay raise? Is that for real?
ENGELBERT: That is for real. So, if you think about the Millennial population -- and we are a big organization of Millennials, purpose over profits, triple bottom line, not just the financial side, it actually makes a lot of sense. If you ask 50 percent of the workforce what they -- would they prefer that over a pay raise, they are saying yes.
HARLOW: Is that more women saying that because they want more parental leave, or are men equally saying that?
ENGELBERT: Interestingly, it was not gender-based. And I will tell you the outpouring of letters that I've received in e-mails from our announcement of this has been from men and women equally. Men have an opportunity now to take up to 16 weeks. And some men, LGBT men say, oh, I was going to adopt, and now I actually can take the time off with our new child, as well.
HARLOW: Here's the thing. It's one thing to give this leave, like 16-weeks parental leave to men or women, it's another thing to actually get them to take it.
ENGELBERT: I think that's a really important point. We have not had men take leave for long periods of time. So, this is the first offer of paid leave. And I think we really need some role models. I had one of our new partners come to me and say, I have a child who is autistic, I really want to take this time off. And I said, you need to take it off, because we need you as a role model. So, I do --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Did he?
ENGELBERT: Yes, absolutely.
HARLOW: Was it a hard sell to the board?
ENGELBERT: Certainly, a hard sell broadly to -- because we're a partnership. You have different opinions about whether we needed to do this. But, again, as we think about a multigenerational work force, I think this was something we had to do. I think, ultimately, because as you know, it's a political issue, it's a public policy issue, and eventually, we wanted to be leading. And this is our innovation. You know, again, we invest in R&D, and it's around talent, and that's what this was.
HARLOW: What about people that have hourly jobs, not salary jobs, that work for fast-food restaurants, et cetera, so they don't benefit from a company like yours that is going to institute it. And they rely on the government stepping in to do this. The United States is the only industrialized country that --
ENGELBERT: Doesn't have it, yeah.
HARLOW: -- doesn't have paid leave. So, should the government mandate it in some capacity?
ENGELBERT: I think that for those smaller companies, for instance, that have a high percentage of hourly workers, there are other programs, I think, that can be put in place around flexibility and predictability to have somewhat of the same outcome, and maybe it's not such a long leave, but give some peace of mind they can take care of their families when they do. HARLOW: So are you saying you don't think there should be government
mandated paid leave?
ENGELBERT: I don't. I think that companies need to find programs and policies tailored to their work force.
HARLOW: I think the problem with that is, if it isn't government- funded, government-mandated, then how do you convince companies to do it? Because up until this point, a lot of companies don't, because they don't have to in this country, Cathy.
ENGELBERT: Yes, and I think the conversation constantly -- we need to bring the conversation into the board, and executive room. Companies do need to feel the pressure. When you look at the analysis, while there is cost, you look at the enormous benefits of the peace of mind and the productivity of our American worker that I think is much more powerful than having the government hand it. There's lots of different policies and programs, and I don't think the government can mandate all of them at one time.
HARLOW: Do you think this change would have been instituted at Deloitte if you were not the CEO, and if you were not female? If you were not female?
[17:49:58] ENGELBERT: So I think it would have happened because of the inclusive culture we have. Whether it would have happened with the speed at which we did it, I'm not sure, but I started to sense the marketplace, the innovation and talent, and I really wanted the message to be to lead on leave.
HARLOW: How much of this for you is personal? Because I read that your former employer, back in the '90s -- someone asked you, why come back after maternity leave? Why not just rely on your husband? Did that really happen?
ENGELBERT: Yes, that really happened in an era where it was probably a question that was being asked --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Not that long ago.
ENGELBERT: Not that long ago.
But clearly, we've come a long way. Clearly, I think, the parental responsibilities have shifted enormously since my mother and father.
HARLOW: What was your reaction to that?
ENGELBERT: My reaction was, I appreciate your perspective but I've always wanted to be a career mom, I think I can balance it. And I ended up becoming very good friends with this person in the end and proving him wrong. Yeah.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: Proving him wrong, indeed.
Cathy Engelbert, thank you so much for that.
Much more at CNNmoney.com/Americanopportunity.
We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: For many, this time of year is when we all try to give back a little bit more than usual, but the "Tenth Annual CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute" salutes 10 people who put other people before them all year long. The star-studded gala airs live tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. eastern.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[17:55:09] ANNOUNCER: They are the kind and the caring, the strong and the brave. They are the ones that see a need, fill a void, make a difference.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: I am trying to give them all the opportunities they deserve.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: This has become my life. I don't ever want to do anything else.
ANNOUNCER: They don't do it for themselves. They do it for all the rest of us. They are reminder of what's good in this world and what it truly means to be a hero.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: We give them the foundation from which they can thrive, the feeling of family
UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: We have transformed the lives of thousands of children.
ANNOUNCER: Tomorrow night, CNN presents a very special live event, "The Tenth Annual CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute."
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, A.C. 360: Tonight, we're gathered to celebrate extraordinary men and women who highlight the best of what humanity has to offer.
ANNOUNCER: Join host, Anderson Cooper, and special co-host, Kelly Ripa, as we honor 10 extraordinary people. The "Tenth Annual CNN Heroes, All-Star Tribute," live tomorrow night at 8:00 on CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: I'm Poppy Harlow. So, glad you were with us. I'll see you back here in one hour, 7:00 p.m. eastern.
But now, "SMERCONISH" begins after a quick break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
